Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Oxygen
        
(Message started by: Ronny on Jul 21^st, 2004, 5:09pm)

Title: Oxygen
Post by Ronny on Jul 21^st, 2004, 5:09pm

Hello,

My neuro told me to get the oxygen.
After browsing this board i have to agree with him.

But

He said to adjust it at 7-8 Liter/min, i read here +/- 15 liter.
He also said: pure oxygen is toxic for the lungs, thats why you can't crank it up.

Is this so?
Or did he exaggerate a bit to create a safety margin?

Ronny.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by FZfan on Jul 21^st, 2004, 5:19pm

my experience was similar, was prescribed 7-8 ml and told that was high enough. BULLSHIT!! 7-8 ml was less than 50% effective for me. Once I got a high flow reg (mine tops out at 20) and a rebreather mask, my effective rate shot up to 80% or better AND it just felt so much better.

There have been many posts about the possibility of damaging the lungs with a high flow rate. This is also pretty much bullshit unless your going to breath the high flow rate for hours. That's why the recommendation to cut or remove the strap from the mask exists, so that if by chance one were to fall asleep with the mask on it would slip off. Although how anyone can fall asleep while breathing o2 to abort an attack is beyond me.

The general rule of thumb is - if you breath the high flow o2 for 20 minutes and you still aren't getting relief, turn off the tank and ride it out. 20 minutes is plenty of time for o2 to abort. If it doesn't abort in 20 minutes, it ain't gonna work for that attack. This happens to me less than 20% of the time.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Superpain on Jul 21^st, 2004, 5:41pm

That's bullshit.
I've mentioned to medical professionals not treating me the O2 method at 15 lpm, and they always gasp and look at me like I'm crazy.
My neuro doesn't.... But many non ch docs don't understand.
You need enough flow coming out of that hose to fill your lungs as full and deep as possible as quickly as possible and be able to repeat that process QUICKLY without having to wait at all. Anything less and it's either going to take 15-20 min's to kill your headache or it's not going to work at all. That's why I prefer the welding regulator. I can suck it down just as fast as I can take it.

I promise you 7-8 lpm is going to be ineffective. Unless you are the size of a child... :-/

O2 is harsh on the lungs... But as compared to the headache???? Who cares? Not me... :P

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by floridian on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 8:24am

1) make sure the breathing device has a humidifier so that the air is not desert dry. This is a very simple, inexpensive bubbler that plugs into the line.

2) Anti-oxidants (vitamin C, vitamin E, etc) may offer some protection against increased oxidation that could come from oxygen use. The damage your doctor is talking about generally involves long term heavy use.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Superpain on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 6:13pm

Just plug the hose into your bong. ;) [smiley=laugh.gif]

Seriously, it would be effective... Trailer park, maybe, but effective nonetheless. ;;D

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by IndianaJohn on Jul 22^nd, 2004, 6:17pm

A couple questions please. I go to my GP tomorrow and want to keep the O2 in reserve if I can't get my meds. I've got insurance, but spouse is unemployed so money's tight.

Where would you get one of the high flow regulators?

Where do you get the non rebreather masks?

Thanks,

John

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Ronny on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 1:36am

Hello

I just wanted to ask,

What is the difference between a regular mask and a rebreather mask?

I dont know any kind so if they give me one, how do i know the differnence?

Ronny.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Not4Hire on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 7:20am

Look HERE:

http://www.maplefallswebdesign.com/misc/oxygen/oxygen.htm

or HERE:

http://tinyurl.com/6cat7

Read it all and good luck!

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Bob P on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 8:46am

I'm 6'4", 240 pounds and 8 lpm worked 100% of the time for me. A few times I went down to 7 lpm and it still worked. Stay calm, breath slow and deep.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Ronny on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 5:56pm

Hee

Thanks guys and girls,

this was really helpfull.

Ronny.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Superpain on Jul 23^rd, 2004, 6:43pm

on 07/23/04 at 08:46:33, Bob P wrote:

I'm 6'4", 240 pounds and 8 lpm worked 100% of the time for me. A few times I went down to 7 lpm and it still worked. Stay calm, breath slow and deep.

I'm about the same size... But how long does it take? 20 minutes?

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Seiji on Jul 24^th, 2004, 4:32pm

a simple mask gives you about 60-70%
A partial rebreather mask ( one without the little flaps) gives about 85%

A nonrebreather gives 100%

Humidifiers are not really needed you are only on the mask for 20min it is just another thing to keep clean and to break.

trick is to breath slowly on the mask. if 7 or 8 works for you all the better longer the tank will last. It does not need to be cranked up to 15 try lower then work up.

I have been an Resp. Therapist for 28 years.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Mr. Happy on Jul 25^th, 2004, 12:56am

Seiji........

The judges give you a 9.6 on content and 25 words or less...........
I've seen people huff so hard and fast that 15 lpm is barely enough. Eight lpm has always done me fine and dandy, like others. Being a hefty smoker, it's hard to imagine ANY lpm being absorbed, even with the _Good_ lung working overtime. Either way, DAMNED if the stuff doesn't work miracles in this ballcourt for me.

Great synopsis, mate......
RJ

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Superpain on Jul 25^th, 2004, 5:54am

on 07/24/04 at 16:32:31, Seiji wrote:

I'd disagree. From my personal experience hitting it hard kills a headache quicker. Period. Suck on it as fast and hard as you can. I intake probably 15 - 20 lpm with a welding regulator and I kill headaches in 5 minutes. And by easily twisting the regulator with each hit, there is no wastage of gas at all. A headache cost about 100 psi...

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Superpain on Jul 25^th, 2004, 5:55am

And 20 minutes would kill my throat and lungs. If I can't do it in 10, I give up.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by kimh on Aug 1^st, 2004, 1:50am

I have been getting friendly with oxygen for 3 days now.

So far it seems to be helping. To clarify a bit, it has helped enormously so far with shadows, but i have not been successful aborting an attack with oxygen alone yet. I get on it at 15 and lower it to 8 once i start to feel some relief. I'm still fiddling around with it and will eventually figur it out.

I'm going to keep at it, still thinking positive.

Still taking one day at a time.
PFDAN

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by BobG on Aug 1^st, 2004, 4:17am

Maybe I'm just nit-picking here but I see the words 'regular mask and rebreather mask' being used here.

The mask needed is a NON-rebreather.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Seiji on Aug 1^st, 2004, 5:15pm

You will get better gas exchange when you breathe slow and deep not fast. Breating fast just gives you something to do and it helps get your mind off the headache. breathing fast also might give you a small headache because you are hyperventilating. but I also understand that everyone is different so do what works for you when using your mask ( your non-rebreather ) just try to stay calm and breathe deep and slow.
remember better gas exchangew that way.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Roxy on Aug 1^st, 2004, 5:43pm

It takes the full 15 lpm for me, and I empty the bag on every breath, then have to wait for it to refill. I've tried the slow even breathing, but I still empty the bag and wait.

That is one reason I like the welding tanks.....you can get as much 02 as you can take in.

Kim, most times, if I don't get to the 02 at the start of a hit, it's not going to do anything for me. If I'm really full into a hit, the 02 may maintain me at that level, but seldom stops the hit. Try 10 or 15 minutes on....then wait 5 minutes, and go back to it. Every now and then that works (for some odd reason).

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by kimh on Aug 1^st, 2004, 5:56pm

Roxy, that is kind of what i have been doing. It took me a day or two (or three ;;D) to get comfy with the contraption. New thingy -ya know - kim gets all spastic-like at first ::)....
anyhow, me and the oxygen like i said are becoming fast friends. What a difference from years back with the nose plug thingy. Non-rebreather mask makes all the difference.

*Note* this afternoon i woke up from a nap with cluster. I ran into the kitchen popped a maxalt mlt10 and then ran downstairs to my "crazy room" with frozen peas slapped on my head sloshing coffee down the stairs as i went whereupon i got on the oxygen machine at 15. Stayed at 15 about 5 min, then lowered to 10 for 10 more. Attack did not escalate.
AFTERWARDS - i felt a little soreness in the middle of my chest. It went away. Just wondering why got that sore/kinda burning feeling????

**NOTE AGAIN** very little sleep - I. Am. A. Lunatic :o ;;D

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by Biker on Aug 2^nd, 2004, 9:13pm

Not sure why you got a sore burning feeling. My only irritation with oxygen is in my mouth and throat. Then again, I use it pretty much like Superpain stated. I crank the thing up and breath in as much as I can for the first few minutes. 100psi usually does the trick. I take it straight out the hose. After the pain levels off, I begin to take slower breaths and turn down the regulator. After the pain eases up alot, I tend to turn the regulator down more, and breath in less oxygen, and more air. After awhile, I doze off with the nozzle end of the hose in my hand. During daytime attacks, I shut the oxygen off and continue with what I was doing. I find it best to start oxygen at the very first twinge. If I wait till I have a full blown head splitter, the oxygen seems to take a long time to work.

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by marfanoidus on Aug 4^th, 2004, 3:58pm

Reading the length of this thread seems to point out a few important details we should all keep in mind, and especially any newbies to CH or this site should know:

1) Oxygen helps most clusterheads to some degree;

2) What that degree is, well, thats individual, which is to be expected. All the meds, coping suggestions, everything on this site, will affect us all differently. However, the benefit of oxygen seems to be the most consistent when compared to member's discussions of other tried drugs.

3) People will have to play with their LPM. I too am 6'5 and 240 lbs, and 7-8 LPM works GREAT for me.

4) Although undocumented as far as I know, its probably safe to say we can all be certain that any other med we're trying will have an effect on the efficacy of O2. Maybe MaxALT makes O2 work better on person A, worse on Person B, and no difference on Person C. Maybe Pred. Maybe something else.
To some degree, most of us are walking drug stores (can we all say "triptans"??). Different meds have different half-lives, are taken at various intervals and dosages, and then we all combine 2, 3, or more all at once trying to defeat the Beast.

It all boils down to this - you will probably have to actively hunt what meds and therapies work best for you.

Good luck to all!

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by floridian on Aug 4^th, 2004, 4:25pm

Kimh - not sure, but guessing that 'middle of chest' is your bronchi. Do you have a humidifier on your Ox system?

Title: Re: Oxygen
Post by EvertBoer on Aug 5^th, 2004, 5:09pm

I use 7-8 ML, forcing myself to breathe slowly and deeply. I start at the first twinge, and it usually takes effect from 7 - 13 minutes. Have to modify the non-rebreather mask slightly though. For some reason, every time I get a new mask, it only has one flap on one side with the other side open. I just cut a piece of plastic to cover the side that doesn't have a flap. Is it just my source or is that common? I find that if I try to breathe real fast, it is less effective for me.