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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
        
(Message started by: floridian on Jul 12^th, 2004, 2:26pm)

Title: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by floridian on Jul 12^th, 2004, 2:26pm

Just browsing a bit and came across this curious morsel - meditators have higher blood melatonin, but the actual process of meditation lowers melatonin and serotonin in the short run.

Given the fact that clusterheads have blunted daily melatonin cycles, this might be of relevance. I'm guessing that there is something like the aerobic effect for serotonin and melatonin (aerobic exercise results in an oxygen deficit short term (with shortness of breath, increase in lactic acid, etc. ), but in the long term, aerobic capacity increases). Also, is the 'decrease' in serotonin with both meditation and rest a decrease in free serotonin in the blood?? That could be due to conservation of serotonin, making more available for later use.

One note on this research: Who has time to meditate for 3 hours at a sitting? Do I look like a Tibetan monk? Taking melatonin in pill form is definitely easier, but meditation might do more to rebalance the body. No guarantees that meditation will stop clusters, but it may be helpful for some. The cost and side effects profile are hard to beat, but it takes discipline.

Quote:

Headache. 2004 Jul;44(7):743.

NONPHARMACOLOGIC TREATMENTS.

Solberg D, Holen A, Ekeberg L, Isferud B, Halvorsen R, Sndvik L. The effects of long meditation on plasma melatonin and blood serotonin. Med Sci Monit. 2004;10:CR96-CR101.

Background: The benefits of meditation are well documented, but the biochemical mechanisms have not been fully identified. One effect mechanism may be via influence on neurotransmitters. Material and methods: Therefore, plasma melatonin and blood serotonin concentrations were measured before and after 1 hour of meditation in advanced male meditators (n = 27, mean age 46 years). They were compared with a matched reference group (n = 29, mean age 43 years) who rested for 1 hour. In the meditators, melatonin, and serotonin from before and after three consecutive hours of meditation were also compared. Results: Initially, the median melatonin level was 4.9 pg per milliliter in the meditators and 3.1 pg per milliliter in the reference group (P <.01). After 1 hour of practice, melatonin had decreased to a median of 3.4 pg per milliliter in the meditators (P <.0001), but was unchanged in the reference group. After 3 hours of meditation, melatonin had declined further in the meditators. After 1 hour of practice, serotonin concentrations decreased in both the meditators and the reference group (P <.01). Conclusions: The findings suggest that advanced meditators have higher melatonin levels than nonmeditators. Melatonin decreases during long meditation, a finding the study does not explain. Serotonin declines after both 1-hour meditation and rest, indicating that serotonin may be a marker of general rest and not meditation-specific relaxation. Comments: Many small studies have evaluated the effects of melatonin on cluster and migraine. Here the authors summarize a relationship of melatonin, serotonin, meditation, and rest (the latter two variables clearly helpful in migraine). Does this help to explain why migraine tends to remit in sleep? Stewart J. Tepper

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by floridian on Jul 12^th, 2004, 2:36pm

Ok, maybe I do look like a Tibetan monk - just a little. But that is mostly coincidental. If I were to lose the robe and let my hair grow, I'd look like John Q. Norbu.

http://www.ggrewal.com/Photos/4Monastery.jpg

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by don on Jul 12^th, 2004, 4:21pm

Quote:

but it takes discipline

And lots of it to do it effectively.

Its easier to go see Mistress Bangyanuts. For $150.00 she will discipline the leaving crap outta ya. Thats probably not the discipline your talking about though Huh ?

The real question about the monk is "Boxers or briefs"?

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by floridian on Jul 12^th, 2004, 4:33pm

I recall a Ms. Bangyanut in Thailand - I don't think it cost nearly $150, but I never could keep track of the exchange rates for the Baht. There are many paths of discipline - tantric might work for some people. :o

Boxers or Briefs? I'm saving that one for my MTV appearance.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by don on Jul 12^th, 2004, 4:39pm

MTV ?

Multiple TransVestites?

Tantric meditation is the most widely used in Western culture I believe.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by pam s on Jul 18^th, 2004, 12:46am

on 07/12/04 at 14:26:34, floridian wrote:

Also, is the 'decrease' in serotonin with both meditation and rest a decrease in free serotonin in the blood?? That could be due to conservation of serotonin, making more available for later use.

Floridian, I have a question. I've been doing a lot of research for another disorder lately, and, even using the dictionary, some things are hard for me to decipher. For example, sometimes a study says that the extra-cellular (or some such term that means outside the blood cell) level of something such as a neurotransmitter is high or low, as a result of some medication or chemical. If the level is low, could that mean it has been efficiently "reuptaken"? Or does it mean that it has simply been underproduced?

Also, where do you get your abstracts from?

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by don on Jul 18^th, 2004, 10:10pm

Quote:

Also, where do you get your abstracts from?

The Monk.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by BobG on Jul 18^th, 2004, 10:45pm

on the other day, floridian wrote

Quote:

Who has time to meditate for 3 hours at a sitting? Do I look like a Tibetan monk?

There may be something about the meditating monk thing. I've been reading this board for some time now. Over 6000 people have signed on here and not even one of those has been a monk.

8)

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by floridian on Jul 19^th, 2004, 8:39am

Quote:

Also, where do you get your abstracts from?

Entrez PubMed, an online database from the National Institute of Health (a US govt agency). Over 14 million citations from medicine and biology. At last count, there were 1693 entries for "cluster headache" - which really represents around 1000 summaries for real research (some are very general articles that don't say much, others don't have a summary).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

On the neurotransmitter question - If blood levels are low, it could be from reuptake, or from metabolism, or because it is not being produced or released. Measuring blood levels of a neurotransmitter is an indirect way of trying to measure what is going on elsewhere. For some neurotransmitters, their metabolic products are measured in urine, which gives an indication of overall activity - for example, when homovanillic acid in the urine goes up, it means that there is more release (turnover) of dopamine. Some serotonin (5-HT) is converted to -hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA) and this in the blood or urine can indicate an increase in overall levels.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by Not4Hire on Jul 19^th, 2004, 9:17pm

...damn flo...I was with ya clear thru the Boxers and their Brief Rebellion... 'til ya got to

Quote:

homovanillic acid

...now this is where me and StFud part ways...

I've graciously declined the invite to partake of Massachusett's newly liberal laws... but as I have persistently stated: I am still happily married to a Peruvian butterfly fart...

...and another "thing": what can ya meditate on for THREE freakin' hours? ..... of course I have SADD-so there goes the demographic....;;D

sheesh.....n4

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by don on Jul 19^th, 2004, 10:21pm

Common there stevie old boy........................................

Quote:

homovanillic acid

is the top dessert request at receptions throughout the great Commonwealth.

Take Mitt for instance. That dude has just gotta be trippin!

Also (thats right I aint done)

Quote:

what can ya meditate on for THREE freakin' hours

Anything past one hour and I believe you are clinically dead.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by notseinfeld on Jul 19^th, 2004, 10:21pm

If blind fantasies about Elizabeth Hurley count then I'm a monk even the Rig Veda--if it lived and breathed--would be proud of.

On a serious note I often wonder what a CH sufferer in 1000AD, or even BC, would do about their condition. My hunch is that is was alleviated with a natural substance such as an Iboga elixir or Ayahuasca combo. Strong medicine for a strong ailment.

This Western outlook of mine has had me looking in the wrong direction for years. Time to talk to the ancients.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by don on Jul 19^th, 2004, 10:25pm

Quote:

My hunch is that is was alleviated with a natural substance

Like stones ?

As in being stoned to death for being possesed by evil demons. That would sure as hell alleviate the Ch.

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by TBO2 on Jul 20^th, 2004, 3:08am

QUOTE
<<On a serious note I often wonder what a CH sufferer in 1000AD, or even BC, would do about their condition. My hunch is that is was alleviated with a natural substance such as an Iboga elixir or Ayahuasca combo. Strong medicine for a strong ailment.>> endQUOTE

methinks they killed themselves
- Ted

Title: Re: Fresh Research - Melatonin, Meditation, Monks
Post by BobG on Jul 20^th, 2004, 8:29pm

on 07/19/04 at 22:21:44, notseinfeld wrote:

On a serious note I often wonder what a CH sufferer in 1000AD, or even BC, would do about their condition. My hunch is that is was alleviated with a natural substance such as an Iboga elixir or Ayahuasca combo. Strong medicine for a strong ailment.

methinks they drilled a hole in their skull to let the demons out.
Then they died.