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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Question for CH veterans
        
(Message started by: E-Double on Jul 8^th, 2004, 8:00pm)

Title: Question for CH veterans
Post by E-Double on Jul 8^th, 2004, 8:00pm

Can the wrong Preventative effect how an abortive works or doesn't work?

Do they go hand in hand?

I know that I am prob. not on the right cocktail, Already switched from zomig to imitrex injections and don't seem to notice a diff. in aborting time. I've been on depakote as a preventative for a month with no dramatic change.

I'm just curious.

Thanks all,
Eric

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by don on Jul 8^th, 2004, 8:06pm

I dont know if there are any preferred preventative/abortive partnerships but I would drop the depakote and try the verapamil if I were you. No point in continuing to take a med that is not working.

I just recently terminated a cycle this way;

1st week 480 mg of verap. per day
2nd and 3rd week 480 verap + prednisone taper
4th week 480 verapamil per day

I will continue the verapamil until I am sure the cycle has terminated.

Always 2 mg of imitrex to abort.

I also strangled the nieghbors whiney cat but I wouldn't suggest that.

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by E-Double on Jul 8^th, 2004, 8:32pm

Quote:

but I would drop the depakote and try the verapamil

I am definitely ready to do so. The reason I was on the Dep and not the Verap. was something regarding blood pressure. Mine is fine so it appears that it is time for a switch.

I'm seeing someone new tomorrow so we'll see.
Thanks for the input as always!

Best,
Eric

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Jul 8^th, 2004, 8:35pm

Ditto to Don's reply. Verap 480/day + Prednisone + Imitrex to abort - my favorite cocktail!

If you're prevent hasn't worked after a month, you can pretty well figure it's not going to work at all.

Trial and error - hopefully you and your doc will get it worked out this time, so next time isn't quite so hard.

Hugs and good wishes,

Kris

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by UN_SOLVED on Jul 8^th, 2004, 9:18pm

on 07/08/04 at 20:00:44, E-Double wrote:

Can the wrong Preventative effect how an abortive works or doesn't work?

Do they go hand in hand?

Never had this problem. Imitrex has always been my choice abortive and I wouldn't want to take any preventative that would stop me from taking the Trex.
Some 'preventatives' like daily IM shots of DHE will stop you from taking any Triptans. Your doctor should know what NOT to take together.

Verapamil and Depakote are very different meds.
NOTE: Some people can NOT tolerate high amounts of Verapamil. Side effects can be serious or life threatening if dosage too high.
for example: ME ... 400 mg of Verapamil a day will bring my BP and heart rate WAY DOWN ... to almost nothing. Can't do it. 240mg is my max.

Be cautious when changing meds

Good luck,

Unsolved

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by Prense on Jul 8^th, 2004, 9:41pm

on 07/08/04 at 20:00:44, E-Double wrote:

Can the wrong Preventative effect how an abortive works or doesn't work?

Do they go hand in hand?

I think it would be impossible for us to give a definite answer to your question. I can offer up my experience. First, I think the answer in most cases would be no. I have been on many different preventative medications while using imitrex, and I have had very consistent results with the trex. None of the preventatives I have been on has worked for me. I see absolutely no point in taking a medication, preventative or not, when there is no positive results. I always use the medications long enough to yield results...no luck yet.

One last comment... If you are noticing the same results with zomig as imitrex, I would stay with the zomig. Many folks here swear by trex, but there has been plenty of talk about it extending cycles, causing more attacks, etc. I can't recall one bad comment here about zomig. Trex is also pretty harsh on the cardio system.

Unfortunately, I am stuck (pun intended) with the trex as the zomig doesn't touch my attacks. >:(

Good luck!

Chris

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by E-Double on Jul 8^th, 2004, 9:42pm

Quote:

Verapamil and Depakote are very different meds.
NOTE: Some people can NOT tolerate high amounts of Verapamil. Side effects can be serious or life threatening if dosage too high.
for example: ME ... 400 mg of Verapamil a day will bring my BP and heart rate WAY DOWN ... to almost nothing. Can't do it. 240mg is my max.

I know...
I mentioned the blood pressure factor when I originally posted regarding the meds (being put on depakote specifically) and i got railed. No biggie but a month ago kinda unnerved me a bit. Was a "newbie"
Now a bit more learned yet still seeking the advice of the seasoned vets.
I know that it's about trying this and that but I guess
I am just curious.
Thanks a bunch

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by forgetfulnot on Jul 9^th, 2004, 3:58pm

E- wrote

Quote:

Can the wrong Preventative effect how an abortive works or doesn't work?

Can't answer that one but I can say that for me anywho Verapamil has a very positive effect on O₂ being much more effective. When on 720mg of verapamil just 5lpm of O₂ will run the fucker off.

Lee

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by thomas on Jul 9^th, 2004, 4:13pm

The only time I noticed a preventive affecting an abortive, is when I was using sansert as a preventive and imitrex as an abortive. If I stuck to the dosage prescribed for the sansert, I always got hit about 30 mins before I was supposed to take my next dose. Well I started taking the sansert a little early, and I would usually get hit right after taking it and then I would use the trex, then my heart would beat about twice as fast and my legs would hurt, I really thought I was going to die, this happened a couple of times, so I started taking an extra sansert a day (5) total, and the closer interval, helped break that particular cycle.

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by don on Jul 9^th, 2004, 4:21pm

Quote:

Verapamil has a very positive effect on O2 being much more effective.

With the exception of the rare sufferer who gets no relief from 02 no matter what.

Like me. DAMN!

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by E-Double on Jul 9^th, 2004, 5:44pm

on 07/08/04 at 21:18:00, UN_SOLVED wrote:

I'm going to cross post with a follow up to my experience @ the New York Headache Center...

The Dr. questioned a lot of what what had been prescribed for me mainly the Depakote over a month period with no change and why Verapamil was not tried.
He prescibed this (Verap@250 to start)which definitely made me feel a bit better.
Another question though: Was I supposed to go back on an agent(steroid) again? This was not perscribed.
Haven't gotten script yet just got back and I'm actually not home until the evening.
I justcouldn't stay away from you guys ;)
He also made a suggestion to try the Zomig spray. Said that it shiouldn't give me that "fuzzy"feeling that I had with the pills.
Not sure what to do though.
Do I stick with the Imitrex and just change to verapamil or do I do the both. kinda just sick of changing from this to that. Sure ya know what i mean.
He asked if I had tried O2 and if not htat I should...
Everything appeared to be inline with what you all have experienced with "knowledgeable" doctors.
Big relief.
The only thing was that his "bedside" manner kinda sucked. Very abrubt, yet he did have all my info ahead of time and I guess there was no need to bullshit around.I can deal with that as long as he provides the right course of action. Taht makes me feel more positve! :)
He did say to give him a call in a week to let him know how I am doing.
What do ya guys think? There is a bit more but I'll get into that another time.

Thanks again!!!!!!

Eric

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by Superpain on Jul 9^th, 2004, 6:05pm

Just a comment about the verap and your blood pressure...

I noticed you said your blood pressure was good, so why mess with taking the verap...

The only reason NOT to take verap is if your blood pressure is too low.

That's how verap works... It lowers your blood pressure, thus lessening (hopefully) the HA's.

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by BlueMeanie on Jul 9^th, 2004, 6:37pm

Eric,

I,m not sure about prevents vs. abortives. Just curious what the length of time for either, the Imitrex, or the Zomig works for you. I ask because sometimes I can abort in 10 minutes, sometimes it takes up to 30 minutes, and sometimes it doesn't work at all. I don't take prevents because I've never found one that works.

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by UN_SOLVED on Jul 9^th, 2004, 7:02pm

You (everyone) should use steriods as sparingly as possible. It makes alot of us feel better, but comes with some pretty hefty side effects. You don't want to use this long term.

Imitrex and Verapamil can be used together. (Trex to abort and Verapamil as a preventative)
Imitrex and Zomig CANNOT be used together (within 24 hours).
Which helps you better ... Imitrex or Zomig ?? You'll have to figure out that one on your own.

Unsolved

It's good that 250mg of Verap is making you feel better. Most CH'ers don't get relief w/ it until they reach a much higher dose (if they can ... and it still won't help all sufferers )

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by bluesunshine on Jul 9^th, 2004, 7:28pm

Hi Eric,

I am surprised that that happened to you too.

My experience: on the onset of my last summer cycle (2003), I took depakote 250mg to 1000mg/day (gradually over 3 weeks).

O2, which was a good abortive for me in 2001 and 2002 (2001, the 1st cycle I used O2), worked not at all or only partially- 30min at 10Lpm instead of the usual 15min at 8Lpm. My neuro was puzzled about that and she tought that maybe the O2 was not pure....

Zomig ; I used zomig for many years with very good succes, but that summer of 2003, it didn't do the job of aborting my kip8-9 night CH. Then I started spiking myself with the trex -with relief.

And at the end, depakote never gave me any significative releif- niet!

Now, i am in cycle and no depakote for me (never again!).
I will go back to the basic O2 and zomig , and I started melatonin also (no CH last night- first night in a week) .

Wish you good luck Eric and PFDAN

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by E-Double on Jul 10^th, 2004, 12:31am

on 07/09/04 at 18:37:30, BlueMeanie wrote:

Both were pretty much the same: At a minimum the've been going for 30minutes and i've had them go nearly 4 hours on both meds (Z & Im)
The only difference I've noticed is the "overall" feeling I have on Zomig versus the imitrex. I felt kinda fuzzy when taking the zomig. YET this could also be because of the steroids and when I was ending my taper I was put on the imitrex. Who knows????

I guees I asked about which to stick with because neither really seemed to do anything other than the first couple of tries. I just thought (how naive of me) that the abortives were really supposed to knock them down withing 10 minutes max! all the time. I guess still a rookie This had been the weirdest cycle for me and the very first that I have ever experienced like this so I'm also learning. [smiley=huh.gif]

Quote:

Unsolved

It's good that 250mg of Verap is making you feel better. Most CH'ers don't get relief w/ it until they reach a much higher dose (if they can ... and it still won't help all sufferers )

I haven't gotten it yet. Running around all day. Need to pick it up tomorrow.

HE suggested 240 (oops) for first 5 days. If NO relief & No side effects than push up to 480.

He also suggested 9-10 mg of Melatonin nightly. That should impress Thomas.

So much to keep learning and trying.

Thanks
E

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by mustang on Jul 10^th, 2004, 9:01am

I am chronic and had none stop CH from July 1999 to
Nov 2003, my doc. put me on Verapamil 640mg daily
no major pain,small kp 2-3 then I use 02 if at home
zomig away from home. When ever I try to reduce dosage of verapamil CH is back. No real side effects
of Verapamil. At least this has worked for me.
Still hoping for a cure.
:) :) Mustang :) :)

Title: Re: Question for CH veterans
Post by Root on Jul 10^th, 2004, 7:13pm

I did not get any relief from Depakote. 480mg Verapamil a day with trex for an abortive for when they get through, seems to do the trick.

So far.