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Title: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over the UK Post by Flash on Mar 4th, 2004, 6:26am I would have posted this on UK CH, but in a bid to extend the pain and suffering of everyone in our country, OUCH UK has elected to ban me from their site and eradicate shrooms from the record and impose their own revisionist history on the treatment of CH. Strange given that fresh shrooms are legal in the UK and are now being sold openly on the high street. This means that people like me don't need to grow their own, don't need to wait until autumn to pick their own, and can go into a shop and buy them at any time. How cool is that? Oh - and it also means that those of you based in English speaking countries overseas who occasionally visit the UK can now legally treat yourselves in a country where English is the main language. Perhaps even on a business trip. Give me a shout if you're coming over to Aberdeen, and we can get together. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 4th, 2004, 6:45am on 03/04/04 at 06:26:43, Flash wrote:
Flash Get the full information before you start slagging off OUCH UK over here. 1. The OUCH Uk site is very different from the one here (luckily DJ can run ch.com however he likes) OUCH UK is a registered charity and cannot risk any references (e.g. to shrooms, splitting or tampering with prescription drugs etc) to anything that would cause the charity trouble or cause it to lose it's charitable status. As OUCH Uk is the most wonderful power for the good in the UK, it would be terrible if it were investigated or closed. and before you start ranting again, yes, I know AND THEY KNOW, FRESH mushrooms are legal in the UK as are growing kits, but it is illegal to tamper with the fresh state , and any post about shrooms inevitably will step over this line eventually. 2. I can't be explicit here for the same reasons as above, but I think you will find that the Clusterbusters (the shroom site) and the people that set it up would say that they have a lot to be grateful to OUCH UK for. No names, no pack drill etc , but: So Flash or Craig or whatever your name is You could easily have made this a helpful post with purely helpful information in it, but you chose to slag off hard working, unpaid people who do a great job. STFU until you know the whole story Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by ave on Mar 4th, 2004, 7:23am Wendy, I think we should take the prehistory of the shroom-saga into account here. As far as I know it was Flash who started the discussion on shrooms here on this board. Who was flamed and defamed, but came back to tell it yet again. It is also Flash who has been here for shroom-experimenters from the beginning, giving advice and wise counsel. The way you seemto be telling it now, unless I read it all wrong, is that it is other people who did it all. And I know for a fact it is not so. I am still very grateful to Flash. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 4th, 2004, 7:57am Ave That's not what I said . You have read something that is not in my post at all. I didn't suggest anything about other people starting it all off, just that if the Flash knew the whole story himself he wouldn't be so judgemental about the people at OUCH UK. For God's sake, HE IS ACCUSING THEM OF DELIBERATELY PROLONGING THE PAIN AND SUFFERING OF UK CH SUFFERERS, HOW UNFAIR IS THAT!!!! >:( It is just VERY UNFAIR to slag off the OUCH trustees/officers/webmaster or whoever he is directing it at, and I fail to understand why he thought this was necessary or helpful. That part furthers nothing for the shroom or CH sufferer's cause Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by tommyD on Mar 4th, 2004, 8:14am Wendy - Your concerns, and those of OUCH UK, are justified to a degree. For folks in the US, understand that the UK does not have the level of freedom of speech we have here in the US. That said, the refusal of the OUCH UK board to allow any info at all, or even a link to clusterbusters, seemed overly cautious to me, especially since so many could benefit from an inexpensive, legal treatment. Some folks (at least one) in OUCH UK lobbied to allow the news on the discussion boards, and I am thankful. But the OUCH UK board decided otherwise, and didn't seem interested (don't know since I'm not privy to their internal discussions) in finding a compromise or some way to get the word out safely. Seems to me OUCH UK could post links to clusterbusters (with the appropriate disclaimers) with little problem - note there is a link to here, and there is plenty of discussion here of illegal activities in the search for relief. Many news websites in the UK have carried the reports of legal shroom sales, and one newspaper even ran a story about using shrooms to treat clusterheadaches. That web site is still operating. In the "public service model" of communication in the UK (as my professor called it in communications law class) publishing news about illegal activities is not illegal. The OUCH UK discussion boards are closely moderated, and with a littte effort, careful messages could be allowed, and those that stepped over the line could be bounced. Surely there is no ban in the UK on informing people of what is illegal, ("Drying shrooms or chopping shrooms or making tea is illegal in te UK") as a warning to stay within the law. But that hasn't happened, and as a result, a lot of people are suffering, finding incomplete relief, or going broke buying sumatriptan, etc. This has made some folks suspicious that OUCH UK has another motive for banning mention of indole-ring hallucinogens. I personally don't believe that - I surely don't WANT to believe that - but what is one to think? -tommyD |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Giovanni on Mar 4th, 2004, 9:12am FLASH = [smiley=bow.gif] Been my best hope in 11 years. Grateful to Flash, John |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 4th, 2004, 10:23am on 03/04/04 at 06:45:07, pubgirl wrote:
This seems a bit lame. It's illegal to tamper with ANY prescription drug also. Do you not discuss any medications for fear someone may step over some line? People brake the law by speeding in their autos. How do you discuss travel plans to the convention? What if someone says they will be there as soon as they can? Must they qualify that statement with..."I will get there as soon as I can without breaking the speed limit laws." on 03/04/04 at 06:45:07, pubgirl wrote:
Hmmmm. well, I really dont have time to debate this whole issue, but I would be interested in hearing some details of this. I know that some individuals have contributed to the Clusterbusters site and for that I am grateful. There are some members of Clusterbusters that are also members of OUCH UK, although I guess I shouldn't name them, (you might ban them from OUCH UK?) but I have been, and am, grateful for all they have done. I don't have any information about any contributions that OUCH UK, as an organization, may have made. It would be nice to know since I try hard to make sure credit goes to people that deserve it. If you'd like to give me this info in email, I'd appreciate it. While you're at it, you could maybe find out why my account for the message board there no longer exists? PF |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 4th, 2004, 10:53am Pink IM waiting for you in your Inbox. There is also nothing sinister about the account I don't think. MOB set up a new, better Message Board a while ago and I think you need to register as a user again if you haven't been there for a long time. Can all of you please realise one thing, OUCH UK supports Ch sufferers in a very huge way. No-one involved with OUCH would deliberately withhold information which might help a sufferer without good reason. You may not agree with the reasons, but to accuse the people there (not me I might add, I'm just a body) of deliberately doing this as has been done in this thread is terribly, terribly wrong and hurtful. It can sometime be a thankless job being an unpaid volunteer working for any of the various OUCH'es as people here must know, they don't need allegations like that. :( Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Alan on Mar 4th, 2004, 1:17pm Flash, Thank you for pointing out the recent legality of shroom sales in the U.K. I think this is great news as it has the potential of helping a lot of folks out with CH - especially those that wouldnt dare touch the stuff while it's deemed illicit. One other thought: since it is legal now, have you heard any talks of any formal testing with shrooms to be conducted? Hopefully this will lead the way..... Regards, Alan |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 4th, 2004, 2:21pm Hi basically with Wendy on this issue.OUCH UK has more than one function as its a charity.Not only does it provide a site for sufferers and supporters to interact but also raises money to forward the CH cause in every way it can be it raising awareness,lending out high flow regulators or manning a telephone helpline. Significant funding has come from private companies[£7500 pounds from British Telecom for example] who wouldn't touch OUCH with a barge pole if it was associated with anything illegal. Now I do have sympathy with the shroom issue -in fact I was moved to post on this site for the first time to congratulate people on a brilliant set of posts about that very thing!!However you can see why OUCHuk has to be very careful about the content of the site. Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 4th, 2004, 2:23pm In the UK we do have ways of talking about shrooms and where to buy them and letting people know about clusterbusters without putting it on the OUCH UK site by the way. We are not quite the load of anal retentives you seem to think. W |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 4th, 2004, 2:52pm Let me make a few points and then I'll move on to other matters. This isn't the best spot to be discussing this issue but it is the only spot it can be discussed openly. Hopefully my remarks will be taken as they are meant and not as a slam to anyone. I don't know all the legal reasons that these things can't be openly discussed at OUCH UK. I suppose there are good reasons, but being an ugly american, they might harken back to some of the similar reasoning that caused my forefathers to settle here in the USA. Personally, if its the matter of the non-profit status being help over your heads, the same reasoning that OUCH US gives for their hands-off approach, then I'd probably elect to send back my NP status with a letter telling the governmental agency involved, where to file it. (again, that may be my revolutionary background coming into play.) Might as well go way out on that limb here... I have a lot of respect for OUCH UK and all they have accomplished. Comparing the strides they have made to that of OUCH US, they are lightyears ahead. We here, just feel they are missing an opportunity to help the cluster sufferers of the UK in a way that nothing else can. No one, not even from OUCH US, has ever come to me and asked to discuss what changes could be made to the website that would make it acceptable to OUCH. NO ONE. NO ONE has ever asked to produce and provide a limited amount of information on a sister site. It is a shame that people from OUCH UK must not only sneak over and ask me questions, but can not tell their friends about this treatment. People they care about. They can't even make it known what has taken away their cluster headaches. What are they saying in the UK? IMITREX cured them? I am working on something that is taking a lot of my time. If you want to try to work out something that would be acceptable to OUCH UK (or any of the OUCH's) I am more than willing to not only produce, but to host a site that would only contain acceptable language. Take a hard copy of the site and mark it up.....take out the objectionable parts. Maybe we can just remove all references to "drying" or altering the fresh mushrooms. Disuss it with my chief negotiator.....Flash ;) I have no idea what the problems are since no one has cared to discuss the matter in any detail or try to find a solution. This is not some off the wall scam. It's not some idea without any merit. No one (from OUCH UK) has ever even asked for any data on how effective this treatment is for those that try it. Please understand how frustrating this is, especially to the one man, from the UK (BTW) that brought this subject to the light of day to begin with. He can help people around the world, but NOT his fellow kingdom-men?? Consider coming home to find your own home and that of your neighbor on fire. You are allowed by the fire department to go and save the lives of your neighbors but not your own family. How wrong is that? I also understand that telling a volunteer that that they aren't doing enough, is hurtful. The point being though, that no one is aking any volunteers to do any more work or complaining about the work that is being done. People are asking to be allowed to do more and are not being allowed to do so. It's also hurtful to WANT to volunteer and be told we don't want your help. [smiley=huh.gif] Have your people contact my people.....have your lawyer contact my lawyer...email me and I'll give you his addy. We'd like very much to be able to invite you all to the next Boston Tea Party. We promise not to throw you overboard. PF |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 4th, 2004, 3:20pm Hi Pink Lots of valid points in your post and a very generous offer -not speaking for OUCH -just me. Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Dyno on Mar 4th, 2004, 3:44pm Hi this is Mrs Dyno Being a chronic sufferer who gets by with abortives (Imi and 02) and an ever shortening list of preventatives to try, and being of reasonable intelligence I am aware that the alternative treatment discussed in this thread is available in the UK in its unaltered state. Whether I choose to take that option is entirely up to me. I think it is grossly unfair to slate OUCH (UK) for " extending the pain and suffering of everyone in our country ". That is absolute crap. Without OUCH (UK) I would still be screaming in the dark. OUCH (UK) does a fantastic job supporting sufferers and encouraging medical research. Like all organisations it has a constitution and rules it has to abide by and, as it is a charitable institution there are further rules and restrictions on what OUCH (UK) can and cannot condone and promote in its literature and on its message board. Some of the posters on this thread seem to think that the average UK sufferer is totally unenlightened in alternative remedies - well we're not. The fact that we choose not to shout about the medications we use is up to individual members. We don't need another organisation criticising us and telling us what we should and shouldn't be doing, saying, thinking and using. We can work things out for ourselves sometimes! I think you will find in the UK we have the same level of freedom of speech as the US, it's just we're not so in your face about it. I suppose there will now be another little rant here, but we don't tell you what to advocate on your site, so kindly return the favour! Dragonlady |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by MOBster on Mar 4th, 2004, 4:59pm You want to slag OUCH (UK) or me - go for it ! I will stand my rep or OUCH (UK)'s against all comers with no fear !! When you want to talk facts instead of bullshit I will be listening. Bob you have no idea how close you came today to getting closer to things :-/ Craig, if you want to change UK law then get on with it. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram every time you don't get your own way. Just do Cluster Busters a favour and let Bob handle it ! Shroomers dropped quite a few points on my scale today :-X Oh and if anyone gets banned from OUCH (UK) I'll let you know ! It's far easier to ask the webmaster (me btw) for help than slag him off on the net. WTF [smiley=huh.gif] Michael (MOB) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 4th, 2004, 6:06pm on 03/04/04 at 15:44:52, Dyno wrote:
Well, you were right. I guess you didn't think the next rant would come from your side of the pond!! ;) (please notice the wink) You (OUCH UK) don't want to advocate it, fine. You want to do it with an underground network, fine. We used to help our slaves with one of those so I can understand the desire to help that way and understand the some of the reasons to choose that route. I understand that you (all) feel that advocating this might jeopardize being able to advocate "anything" in the future. Fine. You say you have the same freedoms, but decide not to exercise those freedoms fully? Fine, if that is what you are saying, but I thought the problem was that you "don't" have the same freedoms. I'm not so sure WE have the freedom that you think we may have. I'm not even so sure about it. I'm having enough trouble dealing with the legal issues involved here in the US to even have the first clue as to what obsticles you might have. This wouldn't even have escalated to this point except for that fact that it appears to actually be legal in the UK so maybe you have more freedom than even we do. If we're wrong, and it isn't legal, it would be nice to have it explained to us why it's not legal. All we have are the UK newspapers to go by. MOB, I'm not sure what you meant about "being close" but my offers stand. There appear to be things in play here that both sides don't quite fully understand and have lead to some confusion. We can't clear it up without discussion. All I care about is getting help to as many people as possible. As to the access to the website, I'm not sure what "slag" means but I can guess and if you were talking about me, that wasn't my intent. I was actually talking to someone (wendy) that i thought might know or knew whom to ask. When I went to log on the other day, I couldn't and was told I didn't exist. I was reminded of it while I was answering Wendy, nothing more, nothing less. It was answered just fine, no problem. ~peace~ Bob (if we continue a dialog, I guess I'll have to spend some cash on an American to English translation book. ;) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 4th, 2004, 6:19pm Hi again Pink The legal situation in the UK is that you can buy fresh shrooms legally. However if you change their state EG. drying them then this is illegal. In fact if their state is changed they become a"Class A" drug same categoryas heroin and cocaine!! If you were caught supplying them in a changed state the max sentence life! [have to be honest and say not 100% sure that its life but its a hell of a long time!] Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by eyes_afire on Mar 4th, 2004, 7:02pm Good point Filbert. You are correct. I'm not taking sides on this, but I just want to point something out. There are 2 main benefits for drying shrooms: 1. Easier to measure doses. 2. After drying they can be stored for a long time. If fresh shrooms become legal, then there is no need to store them for a long time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that drying shrooms is not a requirement for using them in treatment of CH. They can be consumed fresh. Drying is merely for convenience and ease of use. When even fresh shrooms are illegal (as in the US), then one may as well go ahead and dry them to store them (thus minimizing the likelihood of 'getting caught'). Also, shrooms (actually psilocybin and psilocin) are schedule I controlled substances in the U.S. regardless of what state they are in. It is the same class as heroin and an even more strict class than cocaine. :o --- Steve |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 4th, 2004, 9:03pm Well at last I got a response. Shrooms, LSD (which is derived from ergotmane, and which methysergide is in turn derived from), and potentially other similar compounds such as DMT (on which triptans are based) are the most effective treatments for CH. In many cases a single dose of LSD measured in micrograms can prevent or even terminate an episode, or break a chronic cycle. In stuborn cases several doses of psilocybin measured in 10s of milligrams can provide lasting relief. In even the worst cases each dose typically provides close to 7 days PF. We even have people getting 24 hours relief from a single mouthful of tea. Nothing else comes remotely close. I have over 100 emails (and likewise PSM) from people all over the world telling me how these drugs have given them their lives back. Does OUCH (UK) report success on this scale. No. At best someone gets a regulator. Fresh shrooms a legal in the UK. It is legal to grow shrooms in the UK. It is even legal to sell shrooms in the UK otherwise these places would be closed down. It is legal to consume a fresh shroom. Doing so would potentially prevent CH for several months, perhaps a year. It is legal for newspapers to report all of this. They can even make TV programmes about these things. MS charities in the UK are funding research into cannabis. AND NO IT DOES NOT STOP BT MAKING DONATIONS TO THEM. Having a post on your message board by a third party does not jeapordise your charitable or non profit making status. Otherwise all the MS charities in the UK with similar posts would be in that position. The reasons that OUCH (UK) refuses to permit any mention of this treatment are entirely down to someone(s) personal morality, or to put it another way what that/those person(s) would like the law to be. My understanding was that OUCH (UK) role was to help people in the UK with CH. I doubt very much that a convenient treatment or cure that is not related to these drugs will appear during our lifetimes. We are extemely lucky to have this option, however inconvenient that reality is for OUCH (UK). An what exactly are they planning to waste the £75K on? Looking for a treatment that fits OUCH (UK)s specific criteria? WAKE UP OUCH (UK) you are actively hindering people by denying the existence of this treatment. And if the truth hurts then believe me it doesn't hurt as much as CH does. And yes you may address me as Flash because you aren't on my Christmas card list. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 4th, 2004, 10:14pm As an aside, the main reason for my post was to highlight that people in the UK that suffer from CH may now legally treat their condition at anytime by eating a small quantity of fresh raw shrooms. I strongly recommend doing this between episodes unless you are chronic. I also recommend using a sub-hallucinogenic dose unless you undertake to dose whilst symptomatic. So if you are episodic, and live in the UK, you now have the ability to live PF for... well potentially forever. If you are chronic or symptomatic then this may also be the case but might take a little more effort. The worst that will happen is that you'll get banned from OUCH (UK) of you tell anyone about it. But then, you won't need OUCH (UK) anymore - will you? Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 4th, 2004, 10:27pm Dyno, If every message board had deleted my posts, and banned me from posting then nobody would no about this treatment and over 100 people would still be in pain. What part of that are you struggling with? I also notice a theme of inference to things that are in fact completely vapour. That's a trait I've noticed in previous communications with OUCH (UK). Wendy - with reference to your PM I have no recall of any support from you on a MB thread at any time. But then since all those threads have been DELETED BY OUCH (UK) who knows? Doh! Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 4th, 2004, 10:32pm Alan, We're focusing all efforts on research on the US. The reason for this is that OUCH (UK) would not support me, and that leaves me with no credibility in the UK. However Dr Goadsby, my local neurologist, and my GP have all expressed an interest in what I've been doing. There are VERY big things afoot in the US, and if pinky would get his arse in gear :) I'd post them here. I know that Bob is going to burst if he has to wait any longer heh heh. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by MOBster on Mar 5th, 2004, 5:42am Well Craig, thanks for proving my point so eloquently ::) You seem to know an awful lot about how OUCH (UK) works, thinks and makes policy for someone who has posted 3 maybe 4 times in three years ?????? Oh and all the correspondence you must have had with OUCH (UK) officials to come up with your statements must have been staggering. Hang on a minute though, there never actually has been any has there Craig ? Quote:
You're not actually serious are you ??? Quote:
Why would it ? these are government approved clinical trials. It has taken people years to get the government to relent and let these trials happen. Oh I see - why hasn't OUCH (UK) done this for you Quote:
Actually Craig it does jeopardise all of these under UK law. UK websites are responsible for the content of their boards etc under law. Look it up Craig ! Oh and I mean the actual law not just your interpretation of it. Quote:
No the reason is the law. Nothing more and nothing less. Quote:
No Craig, you are ! Quote:
No they probably wouldn't - but then again they have never been asked have they Craig ? Quote:
Well that's really funny, he has never mentioned it to anyone else ? Oh well must be like all the rest of your statements about others. So if it's all so cut and dried (no pun) in the UK why do you need OUCH (UK) ? Why haven't you put up a site in the UK for shroomers ? Why don't I see loads of articles in papers etc on shrooms instigated by you ? You seem very willing to put others in the firing line but reluctant to actually bite the bullet yourself. You claim to be a successful business man so money can't be the problem, just wondering what is ? There are always problems when the 'Crusader' becomes bigger than the 'Crusade' ::) Michael (MOB) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:07am Flash Suspect the reason you haven't noticed me supporting you over here and elsewhere is that you are deaf to anything other than the sound of your own voice. My suggestion: Shut up until you know how to talk to people AND LISTEN AS WELL without attacking and antagonising and putting back any good work others are doing in the "crusade" a few years. Bob's approach has the seeds of bearing fruit, continue as you are and he is wasting his breath. AND LASTLY, DON'T YOU DARE, PRIVATELY OR PUBLICLY SUGGEST EVER AGAIN THAT I AM LYING. You do NOT know everything that is going on or has gone on in the past. I will be charitable and see it as you being someone who is so passionate about the subject that they find it hard to see beyond their own experience. The passion is great :D, the closed ears, open and aggressive mouth, blinkered thinking and understanding are not :( When you can discuss thing reasonably and construct rather than destroy, perhaps you will be useful. Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:52am Also if you learn to read that would help.The BT figure was £7500! How many e-mails have you had? Is it 100 cr 1000 or 10 make sure you get your dosing numbers right or somebody might suffer . We don't want people taking 300 mushrooms on your advice. Your good friend Doctor Goadsby is of course Proffesor Goadsby . Still i'm sure there must be some facts amongst all the fiction so am looking forward to the setting up of your British website in the near future! Thousands upon thousands of UK sufferers need your help .If you aren't planning to set up your own site why not? A 16 year old has just set up one so it should't be too difficult. Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Mar 5th, 2004, 9:18am Reading in this thread the posts from Filbert and pubgirl and (and partially from MOB) a saying comes to mind: This is clearly exemplified by Filbert's last post (reply #24): He starts nitpicking on a typo Flash made, and takes this as a starting point for a roundabout slander. However, there is not the slightest (sensible) suggestion how the news about Flash's undoubtedly useful approach could be spread in the UK. I suggest that you open your own web site and drop your crap there instead of here. :( Pubgirl, as far as I remember, you or one of your many alter ego's, ran into trouble with the OUCH-UK message board some time ago. Are you trying to make amends now? Pissed off at some earthlings, ASG |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 5th, 2004, 10:43am Hi Alien Space Guy Sorry that you're a bit fed up with me at the moment. If you would care to reread the very first post on thread you will find that Flash began with a nasty attack on OUCH UK and if you begin like that what do you expect? That and the fact that many of his posts contain factual inaccuracies that he himself knows are incorrect then well what can I say? I do post on a website in the UK already thanks but anxiously await Flashes own site where we all can discuss shrooms legally.If you read some of my posts you can clearly see i have a lot of sympathy re the mushroom issue and acknowledged many of Pinks points and even thanked him He didn't get personal however. If someone came onto the board and started a nasty attack onCH.COM including DJ then many people would jump to its defense and so they should I'm sure you would defend it yourself!! Remember it was Flash who started this...... Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 5th, 2004, 11:39am on 03/05/04 at 09:18:06, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:
ASG You are just regurgitating old inaccuracies. I have never been "in trouble" on OUCH UK. I had one disagreement with one individual, who I would now count as one of my friends. That happens all the time here, and you don't call it "being in trouble" And it is pathetic to suggest that that would be a reason for my posts here if it were true. And I only ever had one "alter ego" here for about 2 days, for which I apologised and explained why, for every other post for nearly two years I have signed myself Wendy or Wendy the Brit and everyone has known exactly who I am. Am I to be "punished" by saints like you for this for ever? Let's stick to what this is about shall we? OUCH UK and its trustees have been unfairly attacked here. I am doing exactly what all of you would do if anyone said that DJ and the people here were "in a bid to extend the pain and suffering of everyone in the country". It is about the worst thing you can say to a clusterhead, that they are doing anything to hurt other clusterheads. The opposite is true. They do enormous amounts for sufferers, unpaid and often unthanked. This is one hell of a kick in the teeth. I am sure Flash can speak for himself, I don't think your loyal defence of him does anything to help matters. Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 5th, 2004, 11:58am and by the way, if anyone accuses us of running away and not answering any posts this weekend we are at an OUCH UK meeting, with Manjit Matharu as the speaker and at an evening fundraiser in Liverpool, doing something USEFUL to further the cause..... which this "discussion" isn't. Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by cathy on Mar 5th, 2004, 3:17pm on 03/05/04 at 11:58:05, pubgirl wrote:
I knew it...bloody brits always running away, excuses excuses.... ;;D I would make a valid contribution to this discussion but I don't understand a lot of them long words so i'll stay quiet which will make a nice change .... Hey Wendy hope you have a good time say hi to all my friends ....shouldn't take you long ;) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 5th, 2004, 4:12pm Cheers Cathy! Won't be the same without you sharing the room, me smearing jollop on my face, you..... well, we won't mention the things you were doing, the old Bill might have been interested! ;;D We could have made a few extra pounds on that street too if you remember! Get Nancy to the London one in June, bet she would love to hear the Prof in person! He's very entertaining as you know. Speak to you soon W |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by tommyD on Mar 5th, 2004, 5:26pm To better understand the “shroom censorship issue” maybe a little history is in order. In the US, there was a discussion board - this one. And in 1998, a fellow named Craig, later known as Flash, posted a message about using hallucinogens to treat cluster headaches. DJ allowed it, and subsequent discussion of shrooms, along with just about anything else, and it really was a couageous thuing he did- and still does. About that time some folks at DJ’s discussion board formed OUCH (US) and started a website for the organization - clusterheadaches.com. The OUCH US website didn’t have a discussion board at the time, ‘cause everybody was talking over at DJ’s. OUCH US also had concerns about discussing illegal drugs, and you will see little or no mention of the hallucinogen on its website. But it never mattered because all the discussing was over at DJ’s. But in the UK it seems the discussion boards in the UK were always on the OUCH UK site (I’m guessing, let me know if I’m wrong), and apparently the OUCH UK Board is worried about “illegal discussions” being connected to the organizarion. Can’t say as I blame them. Later, Flash and some Yanks built the “Hallucinogenic Treatment of Vascular Headaches” website, now known as clusterbusters.com, and the link to it was/is posted often here at DJ’s. But even that site has had it’s problems - it had to change servers more than once because of such worries, and at least once because of an apparent threat.that was made. And note that Flash did at least help build a shrooms website, and he helped update it into its latest incarnation. But unless you visited DJ’s, or a very few other websites, you wouldn’t be likely to hear of it. The fact the site server is in the US is irrelevant - that’s why it’s called the World Wide Web. So you see the concerns over discussing illegal acts, real or imagined, have often cropped up.-my guess is the problem is more imagined than real, but what do I know? Non-profit status could be a serious complication. And this is the Age of Ashcroft here in the US - there is a chill wind blowing on the First Amendment lately... I surely can’t claim to know anything about the legalities in the UK, and I apologize for jumping to any conclusions. Is OUCH UK barred from displaying shrrom information on its site? Can OUCH UK allow shroom discussions on its boards? Can it post links to sites with shroom info or discussions? Can it report, as journalism, on non-affiliates using shrooms as treatment? Can it report published research on using illegal drugs as treatment? I will assume OUCH UK consulted an attorney on at least some of these issues. If not, I’ll pitch in US$50 to help pay for it. And hey, allayez, don't get so touchy about criticism...you can’t solve a problem until it’s out in the open. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Bob P on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:29pm OUCH-UK doesn't do anything but peddle pain. Clusterbusters are just a bunch of dopers looking for acceptance. OUCH-USA is in meltdown. You guys should all bail and join OUCH-Canada, they rule!!!!! |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by jonny on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:37pm on 03/05/04 at 18:29:47, Bob P wrote:
BWAAAAAAH....LMMFAO ;;D Too funny!!! .....................................jonny |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:40pm Bob You missed OUCH Italia! Their motto is: "Per necessità, ogni grappolato è forte, come gruppo, siamo invincibili!" I think this means "out of necessity we grope each other strongly, come as a group, and are insatiable" I think I'll join them. ;;D Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Bob P on Mar 5th, 2004, 6:49pm LOL The old groupa gropa. Sounds like Riccardo. Hmmm, President of OUCH Italia again. He's turned in a regular little Mousolinni!!!! |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flounder on Mar 5th, 2004, 7:50pm on 03/05/04 at 18:29:47, Bob P wrote:
Oh crap, they found us out. Run for the Hills! |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by 1MajorPain on Mar 5th, 2004, 8:02pm That would be the painless hills! I came I read I dosed I'm PF Major |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by MOBster on Mar 6th, 2004, 2:15am Hi Tommy, I thank you for your reason and candour, it is refreshing. We are not touchy about anything really, we are just tired of explaining this over and over again because it does not suit some people. It is also not about personal choices as Craig keeps implying. Anyone who was around at the birth of the shrooms sites will know exactly where I stand and that I put my neck on the block to help. I didn't mind then because my neck was my neck and my problems would have been just that, my problems. However since I became an official of OUCH (UK) I am no longer free to think just of myself and must consider the thousands of users, members that visit our site. Whatever I personally believe has to take second place to what is best for the charity it is that simple. The UK law regarding this subject is really quite simple. You can walk into a field and eat shrooms without fear of prosecution and so on. You can not however take them home and put them in the freezer, dry them, squeeze them and so on. It is even up to the judge whether to prosecute or not if you have just put them in the fridge ! Unlike US law (first amendment I think ?) the UK and it's website owners and hosts are solely responsible for the content of their websites which includes what they link to. DJ is free to put whatever he wants here because the law protects his right to free speech. The opposite is in fact true in the UK. If I questioned your mothers heritage on the UK board you could prosecute not only me but OUCH (UK) as well and have the site shut down. You have also touched on another matter and that is of association. OUCH in general has an immense task of being taken seriously by GP's, Neuro's and so on. That may explain OUCH US's reluctance to be more supportive of your initiatives. No one said it was a fair world and we must do our best with what we can. We have certainly been told that references to illegal actions would seriously damage our reputation. This is not just a pride thing, our reputation is what makes us listened to by the medical profession. Until you have concrete clinical evidence they will just not listen to arguments about it. I don't agree with this mentality but it is there none the less. OUCH (UK)'s primary objective is to get CH known by the medial profession. People can't even get diagnosed properly let alone recieve treatment of any kind. How could they take shrooms if they don't even know they have CH ? So to answer your questions Tommy: Because the posts that have been posted about shrooms contained advice on illegal practices we can not allow shroom posts on the message board. Linking to Cluster Busters would also be viewed the same as the site tells people how to circumvent US law and talks openly about making teas etc etc. Under UK law this is all illegal. Proper clinical research could possible be allowed under UK law. Reporting on others uses of shrooms - not sure on this but will check. No you will have to forgive me but I am off to a meeting for about 80 sufferers and supporters to try and prolong their pain a bit more ;) Oh and a blast from the past: This is when I was committed to helping not prolonging peoples pain ;) >> Click Here << (http://www.a-dzign.com/shroomszzz/) Best Wishes, Michael (MOB) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 6th, 2004, 3:01am MOB Thank you so much for that. I can stop being so secretive and euphemistic now;) Hopefully people here will realise what the full story and some of the "history" they've been lecturing about is now, and will recognise that this is not a "personal morality" thing and that Flash is not the only person in the UK who cares or acts. OUCH UK and its officials have been done a disservice here. I hope no damage has been done as well. The OUCH UK website is an incredibly important part of the fight to help CH sufferers in the UK, and anything that could damage it, or God forbid, cause it to be closed down would be too horrific. Can we all now get on with what matters, helping CH sufferers and getting the word out in the best way possible? Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 12:33am To address your points: 1) All my posts to OUCH (UK) have been deleted so there is no record of them. Personally I do not see why the world needs two CH message boards. At the most an additional forumn at CH.com would have enabled discussion of UK specifics, but then there are no shortage of people wanting to be in control of something. I cannot post anything to OUCH (UK) since I was banned. I also go an email from OUCH (UK) the jist of which was not to bother them again. I'll dig it out and post it's contents here along with some other OUCH (UK) related correspondance. 2) UK MS charities were posting online information on cannabis long before any clinical trials were started. It was those posts that helped get the research started. Something similar may occur in the US thanks to CH.com and clusterbusters. There are also special groups like MAPS that make large donations to get this research kickstarted. Donations that make the £7500 YES THAT'S SEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED POUNDS UK STERLING (happy now) pale into insignificance. 3) Please explain exactly how I am hindering things. 4) I have asked OUCH (UK) to help by posting legal shroom related information that they would be free to vet on the OUCH (UK) site. OUCH (UK) declined. Like I said I'll post the emails here soon, once you dig yourself into an even deeper hole. 5) Both BobP and I exchanged emails with Goadsby back in '98 or '99. My local neurologist has also spoken to him regarding this. I'm sure he has a medical degree so that makes him a Dr. He also has the honorary title of Prof. How many bonus points did you feel you scored by being so pedantic? 6) I produced the entire text for the "Hallucinogenic Treatment of Vascular Headaches site back in 2000. I also produced the bulk of the survey that's based at EROWID. We now have the clusterbusters.com site and all my original text has been reused there. I've also posted hundreds of messages here at CH.com and responded to countless emails over the course of 6 years, longer than OUCH (UK) has existed. I have emailed numerous neurologists, newspapers, reporters, TV programmes, etc, but gotten nowhere. I'm sorry you feel my efforts have been lacking. 7) Thanks for highlighting potential weaknesses in my character. I will attempt to address them. I'm astounded at how well you all know me. In future I will endeavor to be as constuctive and understanding at you are Wendy. 8) While we are on the subject of how cosy OUCH (UK) is why don't you tell us what happened with Simon? 9) I repeat my request that you advise us as to exactly what OUCH (UK) plans to do with any funds it raises. 10) As regards UK law, the worst that can happen is that the site could be requested to remove any offensive material. It's only if they refuse to do this that problems can start. There have been 2 cases of this, one of those related to NAZI regalia and an auction site, the other related to an item of personal slander. There are no implications related to posting information on the legal use of shrooms to treat CH. If OUCH (UK) believes there are, then perhaps they could post those concerns here. 11) I was interested to read that OUCH (UK) puts the needs of the charity before those of the people in the UK that suffer from CH. I guess this is what your previous comment about the crusader becoming bigger than the crusade was referring to. 12) OUCH may become sidelined unless it recognises the value of shrooms in treating CH. Clusterbusters decided to cut out the middlemen, and guess what the docs listened. 13) I posted details on the OUCH (UK) website relating to legal shroom treatment that did not contain a single reference to any illegal activity. It lasted all of 60secs before it was deleted. 14) I disagree with your assertion that it will never be possible to conduct to clinical trial on shrooms due to UK law. They have conducted several trials relating to cannabis ultimately resulting in it being downgraded to class C. 15) MOB thanks for including the link to a copy of the original Hallucinogenic Treatment for Vascular Headaches website. I wrote the entire text for that site and Todd published it. Todd (and others) can verify this. What is your point exactly? Are you seriously attempting to claim that this was your work? LMAO. Read it, compare the phrasing and terminology with that of my numerous posts, it's obvious they were produced by the same person. Why don't you patent shroom treatment while your at it, might make OUCH (UK) a pretty penny to spend on some other form of oppression. I strongly suggest you clear up this point pronto. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Henk on Mar 7th, 2004, 4:16am Flash :) Whatever is going on on this board, or OUCH(UK), I owe you once more a big THANK YOU for your work. I'm still completely painfree since autumn 2001 and haven't touched shrooms since jan 2002. Not bad after 6 years of chronic hell! I'm *so* glad nothing hindered the spreading of this ( to me ) essential information!! THANK YOU Henk |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 7th, 2004, 7:57am So Flash are you setting up your website to spread the word in the UK or not? Of course Peter Goadsby is a doctor! However to receive a professorship in the UK is an honour bestowed on a doctor who has reached the top of his profession and only granted to a few.So please don't belittle this.He has done so much for CH sufferers and has said that clusterheads are his reason for getting out of his bed every morning. As for OUCH UK they saved my life last summer. I was able to tell my ignorant of CH GP what meds I needed, knew which neuro was the best to see, was able to print out imformation to give my colleagues at work and am now able to handover an info card to concerned people if I am unlucky enough to have an attack in public.Every GP in the country was leafletted recently to try and raise awareness. As for Simon he posted yesterday to wish everyone going to Liverpool for the meet a good time.You are certainly WRONG about him. But you don't seem to mind putting your opinions about people to this board even if you know ,at best you're guessing!! Look Flash I know you feel strongly about what you're doing and it could well be the way forward for fighting this terrible condition but could you concentrate on that rather than spending your time ranting against OUCH UK!! Filbert |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 11:00am Filbert what part of the concept of WORLD WIDE WEB are you still struggling with? There is already a website, a good one, and everyone at clusterbusters including myself contributes to it. People in the UK can find this website through CH.com or any search engine. Unfortunately they cannot find it through the OUCH sites. Twisting my words and implying that I am being disrespectful to Prof Goadsby is childish. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I have no problem with that because your opinions of me reveal much more about you than they do about me. If you check on this board, and the general postings forum you will see an announcement relating to FDA approval for clinical trails of psilocybin and LSD to treat cluster headaches. This may lead to a safe, incredibly effective and relatively side effect free treatment for cluster headaches. This was made possible because: A) During my youth I used LSD recreationally. B) The advent of the Internet made it possible for me to discover that there was medical and pharmacological evidence to support the theory that LSD may have prevented my headaches. C) That I then proceeded to use myself as a guinea pig and test the UK legal and reasonably available psychoactive mushrooms on my cluster headache condition. D) That thanks to DJ, CH.com came into existence. E) That in the guestbook of CH.com someone else (whom we have never heard from since) posted that he too had discovered the link between LSD and prevention of Cluster Headaches. From what I recall he had known about this even longer than I had. Doubtless there are scientists out there who have known even longer. F) That DJ permitted me to post this extremely controversial information on his site. Thanks DJ, once again we are all in your debt. G) That BobP, Margi, and some others were open minded enough to properly explore what I was reporting. H) That a number of brave and pioneering individuals then proceeded to test this treatment themselves. I) That pinksharkmark came to the board and provided support for me, just as I was ready to call it a day on this message. J) That pinksharkmark continued to post on an almost daily basis, and proceeded to investigate the pharmacology of this in even more detail. K) That MAPS Rick Doblin at MAPS and Dr Evan Russo listened to us. L) That just as we were about to give up, along came pinkfloyd (Bob) and the other founders of ClusterBusters and took this whole thing to the next level. M) That even more people tried this treatment and reported back with the results. N) That Bob lobbied the medical community and managed to persuade them to approve a clinical trial based on all the reports we had gathered. O) That MAPS has donated a very significant sum of money to fund this clinical trial. Now, please tell us where OUCH figures in all of that? Other than supressing this information. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by catlind on Mar 7th, 2004, 12:20pm I do not wish to get involved in the controversy of this thread. I would like to just add my personal note to it. This OUCH board member has always supported, both publicly and privately (it was part of my public platform running for office for OUCH) the research for psilocybin on cluster headaches. I took the printed information from TommyD and PinkFloyd (Bob) to the convention last year to present to the Dr./researcher there in the hopes of helping the process of gaining full research trials for this. I made no promises in doing what I did, and it didn't work out. In the end it was probably for the better. I just wanted to say that this OUCH member and Board Member, and VP does, and always has publicly supported research into this process. Something in this is helping alot of people, and finding out what, may well lead to a better understanding of CH itself. I personally believe it is foolish not to explore it or support it. I cannot explore the treatment for myself without these trials, my personal situation with my husbands 20 years in the military on the line, and myself and 2 of my children being immigrants to the US at risk, make it alot to risk unless I"m sitting with a gun to my head, then all bets are off. With these trials, just give me the sign up sheet, I'm all over it. That's all I wanted to say. Cat p.s. please don't misconstrue this to imply that OUCH has had anything to do with helping these guys to these trials, they get 100% of the credit for this |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by t_h_b on Mar 7th, 2004, 1:17pm Interestingly enough, the OUCH UK website, www.clusterheadache.org, was originally funded by a United States (not United Kingdom) charity, the National Cluster Headache Foundation. The IRS Form 990's indicate that it cost over $15,000 to set up the site in 2001 and it cost almost $500 to run it in 2002. The foundation also spent $1,800 creating a brochure in 2002. The three board members of the charity are Alexander Mauskop, MD, Board Member/Medical Director, Douglas Mclead Loutit, Chairman, and Alexander H. Davidson, Board Member. Were the website and address transfered to OUCH UK or is that still the way it's funded? The domain name is registered to someone at a UK address as of at least November 2003. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 1:53pm Cat - thanks for your support. There are many people involved in OUCH that feel likewise. Certain people have made the mistake of interpreting my criticism of OUCH (UK) as a personal attack on them. The fact that they have interpreted my text in this manner raises some questions. I've always spoken my mind. The main purpose of this thread was to highlight the legal availability of shrooms in the UK through headshops. My secondary objective was to shake things up a little. We had to post on the clinical trials waiting ready to go. We've come this far with no support from OUCH (the organisations as opposed to specific people). In order to get taken seriously OUCH must support us or in my opinion this thing lacks all credibility. Since the ultimate objective is to improve the quality of life for people with clusterheadaches, then OUCH needs to U-turn on it's shroom policy or lack of it. OUCH (UK) is on much safer gorund that OUCH (US) because it IS legal to take this treatment in the UK. I CAN legally visit a shop, purchase a mushroom and ingest it. Now OUCH (UK) claim that certain variations on this theme are illegal. Don't make me laugh. Here an example of an illegal variation on an otherwise legal substance. Alcohol. Alcohol is legal in the UK. It is however illegal to walk down the street swigging a bottle of beer. It is legal to brew your own wine and beer but illegal to distill it into a spirit. It is legal for a licensed premises to sell alcohol, but illegal for anyone else. It is only legal to sell alcohol to people of at least 18 years old, but anyone over 5 can legally drink it. Now interestingly, only the second example applies to shrooms. So on the face of it shrooms are more legal than alcohol. It is legal for me to grow shrooms, and sell them to babies. Now there are dozens of website relating to alcohol. In fact an alcohol producer could sponsor a charity if it so wished. My concern here is that people representing OUCH (UK) have claimed legal issues hoping to blind everyone else in the world with non-existent UK law and a couple of far fetched test cases that are totally irrelevant. There is nothing complicated here. The issue is clear cut, shrooms are legal in the UK. Why would anyone seek to do this? I honestly don't know. What I do know is that there is a WRONGESS here, and I'm going to make it go away. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Bob P on Mar 7th, 2004, 2:09pm OUCH-USA does have a link to the clusterbusters site: http://www.clusterheadaches.org/resources/non_script_treat.htm It is rather obscure though. It's under 'Cluster Resourses - natural Treatments' OUCH-USA like OUCK-UK in no way poo-poos the shroom treatment. We just walk the line between being seen as a legitimate cluster advocacy group (which will help to open many doors in the future including shroom research) or being seen as a bunch of dopers pushing the use of illegal drugs. OUCH-USA chooses, so far, to help direct sufferers to the possibility of the shroom treatment but refrains from advocating it. Not because it doesn't work and doesn't help sufferers, but because of "image". Yes our image is important in the somewhat stuffed shirt medical community. It's really a matter of doing what will help the most sufferers at the current time. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 2:30pm But you know, that link means a lot to us. I knew it was there, but from some of the other posts I had the impression it had been removed. I should have checked. This was all we asked of OUCH (UK). The sad thing is that if instead of shrooms we were eating docken leaves or dandilion stalks, then I believe OUCH would put more weight behind the treatment. Nature does not distinguish between socially acceptable, socially unacceptable, legal, and illegal. Those boundaries don't really exist except on paper in peoples own minds. If this plant (yes Filbert I am aware that technically mushrooms are fungi not plant before you start on me) works then OUCH should advocate research in that area. OUCH should not have the luxury of selectivity here. From our personal experiences the medical community is more open minded than OUCH. That's why heroin is still used as a painkiller. Should OUCH chooses not to support this research, then OUCH is turning it's back on the holy grail of it's own community. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Filbert on Mar 7th, 2004, 3:33pm Hi Flash You ask me " which part of the world wide web don't you understand"- well done you have destroyed your own argument without any help.If, as you rightly point out, anyone can find out the info already why are you so bothered that OUCH UK doesn't have it?Why if that is how you feel ,did you need to bother beginning this thread at all unless your reason for starting it was actually just to have a go at OUCH for your perceived slighting?I will not post anymore on this thread[sighs of relief from most people I imagine] it is pointless as you have given away your true reason for starting it-and now I can't be bothered. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Simon on Mar 7th, 2004, 4:19pm Evening all. Thought I might add a word or two in clarification, as this is getting messy, inaccurate and liable to put people off two organisations I care about, viz. OUCH and OUCH (UK). Having been a board member of one and founder member and officer of the other I think I can speak with a certain amount of authority. First to clear up OUCH (UK) is a UK charity which grew out of my (at that time private) website UKCH. It was never registered in the US t_h_b, and I think you are confusing two groups. Charities in the UK are registered with an independent Commission, and it is incumbent on the Trustees to keep within the law – severe criminal sanctions apply if they do not. This includes public accounting and a statement of aims. UKCH did include a link to ‘shroom treatment, and a brief description. I felt able to do that as I “owned” the site as does DJ here. This followed several mails with flash, and I think (I really am not sure) one phone call. When the Charity was officially launched, this link was eventually removed, for reasons which have been gone over repeatedly here. The folk at the OUCH (UK) site – including my good friend MOB – know that I hate this censorship, but understand their point of view. I see two aspects; first that we have extremely good links with the medical community here (that is a real tangible asset and one which is stronger than anyone can imagine who has not seen it in operation), and do not wish to embarrass them or jeopardise those links; second a wish to avoid any possible legal action which could chew up funds raised for real CH work. (In the first 18 months we/they raised over an amazing £37000 according to published figures – imagine the good that can do, but how quickly it would disappear with legal vultures hovering…) Fortunately I have the luxury of being able to operate on principle, rather than in the real world, and my views don’t count! I too know what the various medical people in the UK think of ‘shrooms, and some is definitely positive – I wouldn’t however make any comments on this on an individual basis. As for the existence of two boards, this dates from the time when ch.com was a single sheet, so no separation of UK/US was possible. UK issues were swamped and different medical/cultural traditions have since shown the need for two. If a merger on logical grounds were to take place, Germany and the US are more similar - language shouldn't be the issue. As to “what happened to Simon”, the answer is nothing from OUCH (UK). I lost my job, then my house – all of which has been openly discussed on the UK site – and became incapable of doing all that I wanted to do. The only sensible course was to resign completely until such time as I could function properly, fully and reliably once more. Hopefully this will be soon, and my abilities, such as they are, will then be at their disposal. As to what the funds are for, this is clearly understood. Principally they are as published, but specifically to enable a full time worker to fulfil as much of that as possible. After three years of creating and running things voluntarily, I would imagine any of us would be jaded. I think attacking the organisation is out of order. We individuals have the luxury of concentrating on our pet subjects without real threat. Would it benefit anyone if either UK or US groups had been excluded from meetings where millions of members were represented, and where they had access to information, and, more importantly, people who are really knowledgeable and influential? – and this because of one thread on a MB. Whatever, I think the arguments here are best finished. Newcomers will wonder what the fuck we’re on about (oh how I would love to use that word at OUCH (UK)!) and it is a distraction. Flash, good luck with the ‘shroom explorations – more people support you than you know; MOB carry on the good work over this side of the pond, and everybody just calm down. Dolly has spoken. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 7th, 2004, 5:03pm and Dolly we is listening! Wendy (and we do put fuck on the Uk board, we just have to spell it f*ck ;;D) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by t_h_b on Mar 7th, 2004, 5:19pm on 03/07/04 at 16:19:17, Simon wrote:
I was just asking for clarification. At guidestar.org, which reports on charitable organizations, this information is given: "NATIONAL CLUSTER HEADACHE FOUNDATION 200 E 87TH ST STE 16K NEW YORK, NY 10128 Mission and Programs Mission Education Programs The organization continued to maintain its educational website, www.clusterheadache.org The organization continued on its brochure writing campaign by having a freelance medical" Also, the 2002 and 2001 IRS 990's both claim that "www.clusterheadache.org" is the foundation's website and gives the figures I quoted (approximately) on my prior post regarding the cost of creating and maintaining the website. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Simon on Mar 7th, 2004, 5:36pm Quite. OUCH not OUCH (UK) S |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 8:43pm Simon, Thanks for your perfectly reasonable and informative response. The reason I asked about you was that I tend not to bother visiting OUCH (UK)s site since I am unable to post there, as such I was unaware of your circumstances. At that time you created UK CH it was virtually impossible for anyone in the UK to obtain O2 and the necessary equipment to use it. Your site changed that. And yes it was hard to access UK relevant information back then. Thank you again for including the link to the shroom information. However I do feel that now the format of CH.com has changed then having 2 forums is a drawback. For instance some people may only visit OUCH (UK) and be oblivious to the fact that they could legally purchase shrooms in the highstreet and potentially end years of suffering in the space of 30 minutes. BUT... I'm not prepared to let OUCH (UK) off the hook, the reasons are as follows: 1) As I keep reiterating - this treatment in legal in the UK. The entire legal argument does not wash. 2) The medical argument does not wash either as the medical profession is actually interested enough to undertake a clinical trial in the US. Furthermore everyone I know of that has spoken to their neurologist has gotten a favourable response to this treatment. 3) Now a new argument of legal bills has been introduced. There is the same risk of being sued for posting information on any treatment. Wx3 for instance carries potentially dangerous risks. So, no there is not an increased risk here either. 4) Funding. Bob at ClusterBusters has raised more this year than OUCH (UK). This is going towards funding the clincial trial. Personally I will be diverting my OUCH subscription fees there also, perhaps others should do the same. At least ClusterBusters is working towards an effective treatment, and everyone is likely to see some tangible benefits from their money. 5) Lastly, but most importantly of all, SHROOMS WORK. and if they work then OUCH should be doing something about it. No matter how reasonable and plausable you make it sound. And Simon did a better job than the others... it doesn't change the fact that: If it looks like shit. and smells like shit then it will probably taste like shit if you swallow it. So I'm still gagging at the thought. Flash PS Filbert, refer to the third paragraph above where I have addressed your err killer point. Could someone please introduce a smilie that gives a slow exasperated headshake? Just in case filbert comes back for another pop despite the expression of avowed absence. It's amazing how smart some fuckers get when they aren't in the same room as me. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 7th, 2004, 8:46pm One other question - and I'm taking lessons from Filbert on this one, cos as you'll see its anal and pedantic. Does OUCH UK have a link to either CH.com or OUCH US? The reason I ask is given in BobP's post above. It's like one of those 7 degrees of seperation things, only this time it's only 2 degrees. I hope Filbert is proud of me. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by manana on Mar 8th, 2004, 5:47am I found this thread to be both informative and entertaining. Keep up the good work. el bobo lobo |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 8th, 2004, 6:58am Flash I'd be doubly proud of you if on top of the success you have had (genuinely impressed and delighted about the FDA achievement , CONGRATULATIONS!) that you felt able to acknowledge the contribution MOB made. I know there were many contributors and Pink plans to acknowledge them in due course, but none of them have been villified here as MOB has. I know you were around then, and I can't understand why you have forgotten what happened, maybe you never knew. [smiley=huh.gif] Just to put the record straight and HONESTLY not trying to resurrect the argument, if you look, MOB wasn't claiming (as you read it) that he WROTE the text. He helped build the first clusterbuster shroom site and hosted it for a while when there were "difficulties" in the US. That is why this whole thread is so unfair. I hope that with Simon putting the record straight about his involvement and his circumstances, and this post about MOB's, we can get back to what is important like your success, and stop attacking OUCH UK and the people who work for it. Wendy |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 8th, 2004, 11:42am OK, I know I'm going to regret this, but my actions have never been dictated by fears of regret. This really seems pretty simple to me, but I'm a simple guy. In the UK, it seems that shrooms are LEGAL. People can buy them. People can buy them for any reason that strikes their fancy. They can buy them and eat them and not go to jail. I could, for example, buy them to treat my CH and nobody anywhere could take legal action because of it. So, if that's all true, then what's the fuckin problem? Why can't OUCH (UK) openly discuss the matter? I'm NOT telling OUCH (UK) what to do, mind you. I'm asking a legitimate question. If it's all on the up and up now, what's the problem with discussing it in the open (assuming you limit discussion to things that are legal). C'mon. Please tell me. It seems like (with all I know at the moment) that the decision to refrain from any and all discussion that is shroom-related is purely dictated by the people who run OUCH (UK) and not any threat of legal action or liability. If this is the case, I would join Flash in his harsh criticism of OUCH (UK) because shrooms represent a viable and effective alternative for those who suffer greatly. I am now living a productive, pain free life. Why? Because I found out about this treatment here. I was in hell and now I’m back in the land of the living. If it can save ONE person AND it’s legal, tell me that NOT discussing it is anything short of criminal. And Wendy (I love you Wendy) don’t tell me you guys do it with some back-room handshake on the sly thing… it needs to be discussed in the open. Please tell me exactly what legal consequences can arise from discussing something that is LEGAL. If you can’t stand on that leg, then the only reason to limit the discussion is because of the PERCEPTION issue, and that’s where is all breaks down to people and their morality in direct conflict with the desire to help people with this medical (not moral) problem. And that’s where criticism is richly deserved. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Simon on Mar 8th, 2004, 12:51pm From the "Good Drugs Guide" website (www.thegooddrugsguide.com/mushrooms/legality.htm): Magic Mushrooms occupy a strange grey area in UK law. They are legal as long as they are fresh and unprocessed. You cannot be arrested or prosecuted for possessing freshly picked or cultivated mushrooms. Drying, powdering or preparing them in any way for consumption turns them into a Class A drug. In the US, mushrooms and psilocybin are categorised under schedule 1 along with LSD, cannabis, and heroin. It is the processing that is the problem it seems, but even these people say "Magic Mushrooms occupy a strange grey area in UK law". Not surprising that people are reticent. S |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by majic on Mar 8th, 2004, 1:28pm Funny, that's not the opinion of the HOme Office: http://www.magic-mushrooms.net/scan-mushrooms-home-office-all.jpg |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 8th, 2004, 2:03pm OK, that letter from the Home Office pretty much clears up the issue of legality. It's legal to grow, gather, eat, sell, buy and possess. So, MOB, can you please explain why it’s not OK to discuss in the open? Again, I am not, in any way, telling you how to run your very important resource. It just strikes me as incredibly wrong (my own opinion, mind you) to withhold information from people who are suffering and in some cases killing themselves. If you can’t point to a legal consequence of discussing the legal use of shrooms in what has to be one of the most appropriate places on Earth to discuss such a thing, I can only conclude that this is a travesty beyond imagination. The initial outburst by Flash was probably unnecessary and unnecessarily accusatory. OUCH (UK) is a powerful force, and legitimate efforts to protect it are warranted judging by the amount of progress that has been made. However, to withhold LEGAL info from suffering people is nothing short of criminal. I know you have no obligation to respond and I have no right, per se, to question this. However, the current stance is beyond my understanding. I’d gladly change my opinion if you could explain why this should not change. Not that you should care about my opinion, but I would hope that your concern for the suffering could overcome any silly phantom fears about some uptight commission yanking your charitable status based on discussing legal remedies. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 8th, 2004, 2:34pm Wendy, The site was written by me and built by Todd - the same guy that did CH.com and HSG. Sometime later MOB offered to maintain it. What he did was add a menu/index to it and change the background colour. He also helped inserted some minor changes/additions to the text that I drafted. He later supplied the master copy of the text to Bob whilst I was indisposed getting my bar up and going. While I appreciated his help, there were several volunteers, so it's not like it was life or death for us. In MY opinion, based on my dealings with MOB, his subsequent actions and stance have cancelled out any previous good work. That may be harsh, but it is MY personal opinion and not a judegment. It's kind of like someone helping to fix your car, then driving over it in a steamroller. Yes I am very unhappy with OUCH (UK), but I am entitled to voice my opinion, and I feel aggrieved at the retaliation of MOB, Filbert, and yourself, because it featured a high degree of character assasination. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by pubgirl on Mar 8th, 2004, 2:52pm Do the words Pot, Kettle and Black mean anything to you? yes we did see you calling MOB "scum" before you amended it W |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by majic on Mar 8th, 2004, 5:33pm I too, as a member of OUCH(UK), am entitled to voice an opinion. Isn't it strange that we couldn't even hold this discussion on the UK board? I find this attitude utterly reprehensible. Here we have a completely legal cure for CH and the organsiation founded to help sufferers refuses to tell anyone about it. This business about preservation being illegal so that's why no-one can mention it is nonsense. Haven't you people worked it out yet...there is now no need to preserve mushrooms in the UK...we can buy them fresh over the counter or over the web and consume them that day. Problem solved! This treatment has changed me from being badly chronic to someone who has a normal life and to not pass this information along to others is stupid at best and almost criminally negligent at worst. I, for one, will not be giving OUCH(UK) anymore money or support if this continues. majic |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 8th, 2004, 7:54pm majic, I feel bad for OUCH (UK) memebers. You hit the nail on the head. How can an organisation that professes to be there for the 'understanding of cluster headaches' refuse to discuss a TOTALLY LEGAL and AMAZINGLY EFFECTIVE treatment? If I were a member, I would demand it. And then I'd be snuffed out like the rest of the riff raff the insists on discussing it. It doesn't matter if it is, in fact, effective or not. The fact is that the discussion of something that violates no laws, whatsoever, is being stifled for purely imagined reasons, as far as I can tell. There are those that simply refuse to accept that something as awful as mind-altering drugs could actually (God forbid) be medically useful. Whether those people are the doctors that OUCH (UK) is afraid to "embarrass ... or jeopardise those links" makes no difference. People need to evolve. God, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with Flash. Dragonlady, this is not about another organisation telling you what to say or how to say it. It's about sharing LEGAL, VITALY important information with the people who need it most. Your constituency. Snuffing out that discussion as if it doesn't exist simply borders on, dare I say it, evil. Wendy says you aren't a load of anal retentive people. I guess I'll have to trust her on that, but the evidence is not agreeing. This situation is just sad for the sufferers that should have readily easy access to info like this FROM A SOURCE THEY TRUST. Saying the information is discreetly given to selected people who seem to need it is missing the point entirely. Damn, now I'm all worked up and I'm not even affected by the outcome. I just feel sad for sufferers who trust OUCH (UK) to give them ALL the information they need to deal with this tragic condition. Fucking medieval mentality if you ask me. I know, you didn't. And I know, I'm sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. I will slink off into the corner now. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Mar 8th, 2004, 11:29pm on 03/08/04 at 14:52:29, pubgirl wrote:
So, when he amended it, why did you have to dig it up again? Maybe because you are a scum bag? How else could it be explained that you have over a dozen posts in this thread, most of them slamming Flash? Like this one: on 03/05/04 at 06:07:46, pubgirl wrote:
Pubgirl, to me it looks that you are in love with "the sound of your own voice". In addition you are dishonest. Why don't you just wave your "I'm just against everything that remotely resembles drug abuse" flag instead of attacking continuously the on who is to 'blame' for a hundred (almost) cured clusterheads? Do you think that adulations (ad nauseam) for the UK trustees can convert anybody who believes that their motive is more than the medieval censor laws (something 'foreigners' thought had fallen together with the Soviet Union)? on 03/04/04 at 06:45:07, pubgirl wrote:
That is what I recommend to Pubgirl. Enough is enough. While I'm at ranting, I have a question for the webmaster of OUCH (UK); and I put it here and not in a private communication as I think others than I are interested in the answer: Why is it that to have a look at the message board one has to register? Registration for posters is quite common, and for a good reason. But to exclude outsiders from reading the posts, denying them to familiarize themselves with the contents and deciding if it suits them? I must say, this is the first and only instance I encountered that excludes lurkers from what the adepts have to say. :( Still pissed off at some earthlings, ASG |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by MOBster on Mar 9th, 2004, 5:47am Craig, actually you are mistaken. I did build the original shroom site from scratch. Todd then hosted it on HSG and added anything after that. He did have to alter the .js file as I had put the wrong root path down. If T was still here he would back this statement by me. As he is not you can choose to believe it or not it does not really matter. I know what happened and that's all that matters to me. This is also one of the reasons why I hosted the site when HSG were threatened. I still had the original so all I had to do was turn it back on and update it, which I did. It was left there until BobW and I think Donna ? had sorted the new site out. I never asked for any thanks for it and still don't. The reason I posted that link in reply to Tommy was in response to your claim that the OUCH (UK) Trustees were acting out of their own sense of morality and nothing else. As I am a Trustee of OUCH (UK) and I believe that there is something in the Shroom treatment how could this be so ? Fubar - I have already answered your questions in my reply to Tommy D. If you could please read my reply to him I would be grateful as I do not wish to answer them again - sorry. ASG - what is the difference if people have to log in to see the posts ? They don't have to post and they can choose to hide their details - can't see the problem there. Registration is free and automated as it is here and they do not have to be members to either view or post so..... As TommyD said, this argument has come up before and will again. What astounds me is that so many people have a strong opinion about an organisation that they know next to nothing about but feel free to condemn out of hand. I also give sufferers in the UK credit for more intelligence than they here afforded here. Do you really think that in their search for help with CH that they won't have been here already and seen the links to Cluster Busters and Shrooms ? Craig posted that he wished me to be removed from the Cluster Busters group. He has edited that post for reasons only he knows. I will save him the effort though and will ask BobW to remove me from the group. I thought I could juggle my own opinion with that of OUCH (UK) but that has been proven false. I choose to help carry on the work that OUCH (UK) has been doing and find the other 249,000 sufferers in the UK. This thread is done for me. Michael (MOB) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 9th, 2004, 7:07am How convenient for you that Todd isn't here anymore. If Todd had you doing this work for him then he kept it secret from me. I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist and even I find that one hard to swallow. There have been so many emails and names over the years that I cannot for sure remember whether you were the guy that later maintained the site or not, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt since I'm guessing there is some foundation to your claims. I edited my post for the following reasons: 1) I have been working very long days for the past 2 weeks and only averaging 4 hours sleep each night. If you look at the times on my posts you'll see a lot of them have been done in the very early hours UK time. Some of the comments direct at me were pretty harsh, but what really wound me up was how I interpreted your post that to me implied the original site was all your work including the text. 2) On reflection the next day I realised that I may have misinterpreted your text, and also that I had resorted to name calling. Therefore I decided to edit my post, because I felt it was wrong and unfair. 3) My original call for you to be removed from the group was based on my misinterpretation of your claims. Now to return to a point of real importantance... As has been correctly pointed out the UK Home Office (that's basically our State Department) considers shrooms to be legal. Yes certain prepartion and extraction methods are illegal, but the same applies to alcohol. It just so happens it's easier to extract psilocybin from shrooms that it is to extract alcohol spirit from wine. If this only involved steeping wine in hot water then believe me that would be illegal also. THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT HOWEVER IS THIS: If every website had taken the same view as OUCH (UK) then nobody but some elderly scientists, some guy that once posted in the guestbook at CH.com, and me would know about it. What about some poor sucker in the UK that has never visited CH.com? What DJ did took real balls. What OUCH (US) have done also took balls because this treatment IS genuinely illegal in MOST of the US. What OUCH (UK) have done is WRONG. MOB - your last statement implies to me that you have decided that defending the actions of OUCH (UK) in at best denying, and at worst supressing this treatment is more important than finding an effective treatment for CH. Ever catch that Twilight Zone episode where the people have been stranded on a hostile planet for 20 years, and when a spaceship arrives to rescue them, their leader trys to prevent them from boarding it because it means he's no longer required? In the end he stays behind all alone. That is exactly how OUCH (UK) is behaving. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE! |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 8:48am Can I credit the enitre British population with some inteligence here(and i am excluding me from that). As a New sufferer/Poster and young person. When i was first told about CH my doc had the good grace to admit to limitations in his knowlege and experience of the subjet. but gave me the GP leaflet sent out to ALL the GP surgeries in the UK so that I could at my leasure find out about CH on the NET. a Point to note doing a google search I found the OUCH site and this one BEFORE the OUCH (UK) site. and have read all the information on the left hand menu's I registered for all 3 site have never posted on Ouch fairly active on the UK and just getting started here. Now I made myself aware of the shrooms site and a few of the alternatives. It really isn't that difficult to find anything you want to on the net. As all good brit's know the law is never clear cut more so with our current Gov. mixed up policies. Until i read this thread I believed (wrongly) that shrooms were illegal. (the govenment hasn't exactly been shouting about it) I'm sure if you ask your average police officer they will tell you that they also don't have much of a clue. As for the OUCH UK's stance mybe it isn't the greatest but would they be getting recommendations by local GP's to visit the site if they believed that the UK site promotes the use of shrooms whether they are legal or not. UK GP's tend to work with known drugs that are licenced for use in general practice. Maybe one day that will change but the Trials need to be carried out first. At present all this thread is acheiving is a slagging match which could in many respects damage the hard work of BOTH the UK OUCH team working with the licenced drugs and Flash's site for the alternatives. there is more than enough space on the WEB for both. A link from the OUCH UK site isn't that nessesary purely because thats what search engines are for!! I hope that the Shrooms research is carried out and is licenced for general use IF it can be found clinically that it works until that day I'll work with my Neuro and GP with the drugs that are proven for the Treatment of CH. If other new sufferers want to use shrooms good on them, they can, at the end of the day with a legal substance it's down to personal choice!! nobody to my knowlege is withholding information from the UK sufferers every Net user can find anything they wish one the net just because on site doesn't contain a link to another doesn't really matter. PFDAN to ALL Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Prense on Mar 9th, 2004, 9:03am on 03/09/04 at 08:48:05, Robert the....... wrote:
To my knowledge, no meds have been clinically proven for the treatment of CH. I could be wrong... Chris |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 9:13am Fair enough Chris, I'll use the drugs currently licenced for use in the uk for the treatment of CH. and can be provided over the pharmacy counter with a script from MY GP/Neuro. My mistake I'm new to the CH world |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Giovanni on Mar 9th, 2004, 9:31am I'll be illegal and pain free. For 11 years I was perfectly legal and in pain. John |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 9:58am on 03/09/04 at 09:13:35, Robert the....... wrote:
As far as I know, in the US anyway, none of the drugs we use are indictated for CH. In other words, all we have a migraine meds that the docs give us in the hopes that it helps with CH. It's a lot like the docs prescribing adult meds for kids even though they are not scheduled for that at all. And Robert, since MOB already explained this and apparantly has nothing to add, I guess your OK walking around misinformed (as you admitted.) We didn't know about the legality of shrooms there either, but where else would you learn about it. Oh, I know, it's downright improper to discuss it on the exact site for which people come for help in your country. I wonder what else the information police are keeping from you. I stick by my original statement. Medieval. Incredibly sad. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 10:23am Fubar, It's not really OUCH UK or MOB that keep us all misinformed but the UK Government. Recreational drug use tends to a much greater understanding of UK drug enforcement policies. Those not into that seen tend to know little or nothing about the subject. As for the discussing it on the UK site WHY? as flash already pointed out this is a World Wide Web. If i wanted specifics about the alternatives I would and HAVE visited the sites. If i wanted to i could join Flash's message board and learn more about the subject. It's like using a plumber to paint your house. sure he'd do the job but a painter would have done it better. If i want to talk about a specific alternative i'll go to a site that is dedicated to it. OUCH UK is about the Understanding of Clusterheadaches it's just one part of a much bigger community that has lots of methods for the treatment of CH. I rule out nothing, I don't walk about in the dark ages if it hadn't been for OUCH UK's work in leafleting the GP's of the UK I would't have even found this site and would still be in the complete dark!!! SCOTT |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 9th, 2004, 11:30am SCOTT, The issue I have is that had everyone taken the same stance as OUCH (UK), then no - you would not be aware of this treatment. To the best of my knowledge this is the only English content site that permits open, frank, and uncensored discussion of all treatments. Had it not been for that, then ClusterBusters would not have come into existence and we would not be about to commence clinical trials at a prestigious institution. Please also take into account that for some people this treatment is a lifesaver. There are chronics out there getting hit with 4-6x3 hours #9s and #10s every day (possibly partially due to their medication which is very hard to detox from), and they have chosen this treatment as a last resort only to become completely clear of CH after many years of pain. It is wrong for OUCH (UK) to witthold that information. Also, not everyone is particularily clued up on the WWW yet. My mother for instance has never used a search engine, yet she has a computer that she uses every day and the machine has Internet access. So the issue is not that whether the information is available - luckily it is, but that's no thanks to OUCH (UK), and they are supposed to be supporting people with CH. The UK government are not misinforming us either. As the link to the Home Office site clearly shows, UK law is and always has been extremely clear on this subject. The situation with mushrooms is very similar to that of Absinthe. Absinthe has always been legal in the UK, yet nobody actually imports full on Absinthe, and until recently very few bars stocked even the downgraded version. The law was clear...it was not the law that was causing supression of the drink. So the issue is one of principle. If we had been smoking orange peel with similar success, then don't doubt that OUCH (UK) would be blowing the trumpet. I could continue, but quite frankly with the exception of CH and shroom treatment, I'm happy to leave the these things alone and I prefer not to shit in my own nest. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 11:40am Scott, Sir, let's look at the facts: 1) If ever there was a place to discuss the LEGITIMATE use of a LEGAL substance, OUCH (UK) is it. It's the ONLY place I know of that has the unique combination of (1) an authoritative voice on the subject of CH pain, treatments and support AND (2) a remedy that is easily, legally, obtained and highly effective when ALL other treatments are expensive and/or ineffective. Essentially what you are saying is let the rest of the world inform the UK people about the legality and use of shrooms in the UK because we can’t have that kind of information published here, for God’s sake. 2) It is only through an outburst of Flash that we here learned of the legality of shrooms in the UK. THAT INFORMATION SHOULD BE READILY AVAILABLE IN THE UK. World-wide-web, yes, but if the authority on CH in the UK makes no mention of the POSSIBILITY that shrooms could help (did I mention they are legal?) it is almost as if the remedy doesn’t exist. I know that when I research a subject, I usually find the most authoritative site and soak up ALL the information I can there. If I was in the UK, that site would probably be OUCH (UK), but thankfully it’s not. I also might tend to scoff at the notion of ‘shrooms for relief’ once I stumbled onto the subject elsewhere if I had not even heard a mention of it on the very site I trust for CH information. In fact, my first reaction would be to assume that the proponents of such an alternative treatment were merely making an excuse to take a recreational drug. So, it's doubly important that it be discussed, otherwise many will assume it's a load a crap because OUCH (UK) never even made a peep about it. 3) Your own words prove my point: “Recreational drug use tends to a much greater understanding of UK drug enforcement policies. Those not into that seen tend to know little or nothing about the subject.”. Well, my friend, that’s EXACTLY why it needs to be discussed there. This is not simply an excuse to partake in a recreational drug and it should NEVER be positioned as such. The fact that the SUFFERERS probably know LITTLE OR NOTHING about shrooms is exactly why it should be discussed. I’m SURE many of them would be shocked to learn that a possible solution is readily available and LEGAL. 4) The fact that YOU are savvy enough to find information on alternative treatments is great for YOU. Many folks tend to find their ‘source’ and stick with it. If they are depending on OUCH (UK) to tell them about their legal options, they are being shortchanged. Look, I could understand the position if there was any substance to the perceived threat of the ‘charity commission’ yanking your status. I am convinced that is a load of crap. You cannot have action taken against you unless you do something wrong, and we are talking about LEGAL activities. It is a travesty. It’s even more sad that you are willing to accept that it’s OK. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 11:55am You know what really is the hardest thing to understand? How can people who KNOW what the suffering is like play God with the information that those people need? They are, in effect, sentencing some people to die. I know I would not have lasted much longer without relief. Finding shrooms saved my life in a very real way. DJ, I love you man. This site saved my ass. I would be taking a dirt nap right now if not for this site and the UNRESTRICTED information it provides. THANK YOU. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by majic on Mar 9th, 2004, 12:18pm There are several other points which I find strange... There seems to be no avenue for me, as a member of OUCH(UK) to discuss this with the people who run OUCH(UK). There seems a total lack by the OUCH(UK) board to even attempt to find some compromise that would get this information out to suffers in the UK. If I was them, I would approach an organisation like Release and ask them to recommend a Barrister with experience in this area and obtain a proper legal opinion as to what can and can't be put on the OUCH(UK) website. As it is for a charity you may even find someone who would do this Pro Bono. What happens to people without web access who contact OUCH(UK) via their helpline? Left to suffer in ignorance I suppose... How many members of the OUCH(UK) board have tried curing their CH with this treatment? Do they have any real idea of the efficacy of 'shrooms? Do the members of the OUCH(UK) board have any idea how many of their members have cured themselves with this treatment? If not, why not? I would ask these questions on the UK board...but of course these self-selected censors have decided that I can't. The more I think about this the angrier I get. Why is it that there is the start of a clinical trial in the US where mushrooms are most definiteley illegal....whereas in the UK where we can buy them over the counter there is nothing but silence, evasion and censorship? majic |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 9th, 2004, 12:19pm It's also important to point out that relief (at least for episodics) is best obtained by a single sub recreational dose between episodes. This causes episodes to be skipped and this beings about a remission. If you check my posts here, and those at ClusterBusters then you'll see that I personally only ever advocate sub recreational doses. The main reason for this is that in the past I have used hallucinogenics for recreational purposes and it is not something to be trfiled with, and not something that the average person should attempt to endure. By contrast sub recreational doses are less noticable than Night Nurse in terms of side effects, with the exception of treating CH. There's also the issue that SCOTT raised about only using prescription meds. This is a blurry line, because not only are there no CH specific prescription meds, but most people: A) Use treatments like Wx3 without realising that it has potentially dangerous side efffects if taken to extremes (these might even be why it occasionally produces results). B) Ingest low doses of psychoactive substances every day without realising it. Bananas, coffee, chocolate, alcohol, tobacco, shellfish, and those are just the main ones, the list is endless. The main difference with shrooms is that they are per weight more potent in the psychoactive sense. However eat 10 packs of ProPlus and you'll probably require medical assitance. If bananas contained more bananine then men that ate them would all be walking around with stiffies! Also everything we do has an impact on us when symptomatic. When we eat and how much. When we sleep and how much. How often we visit the toilet. Body and external air temperature... again the list is endless. In short it is impossible to treat oneself entirely with prescription meds. Furthermore methysergide is a prescription med commonly used in the UK as is Sumatriptan. What are those substances derived from? Methysergide is derived from LSD. Imitrex is derived from DMT. Let's be quite clear on this, Sumatriptan is altered DMT. That's why it works, only it's likely that unaltered DMT would work much better and in an extremely low dose but with less side effects. In fact DMT which is a substance naturally produced within the brain might even be THE key to CH prevention. Oh but DMT is illegal. Well if it's illegal then we should all be busted because every living mammal on this planet is a walking DMT factory and using DMT every moment of it's life. Just in very small quantities. The lines aren't blurry... it's just that nature imposes no fuckin lines. Neither should we. As for the Docs and neurologists. Don't be naive. These people prescribe heroin, morphine, and cocaine on a regular basis. They more than most people realise that nature imposes no lines. Both my GP and neurologist are aware of my use of shrooms to treat CH. Both are supportive. My GP asks me how the shroom treatments goig everytime I visit the surgey with something else. The know the pharmacology of Ergotamine, Methysergide, and Sumatriptan. They are under no illusions. OUCH (UK) does not risk falling foul of the Docs. The Docs want to see us get better. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by majic on Mar 9th, 2004, 12:27pm Quote:
I was one of those people three years ago. Now I just take a dose every three months or so and don't get CH any more. Why anyone would choose not to take this treatment is beyond me. DMT is not illegal in the USA however. See, http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt_law.shtml and can be purchased from http://www.americanchemicalsupply.com/main.htm majic |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 9th, 2004, 12:35pm DMT is also to LSD what LSD is to a banana. Very scary shit. We really need a pioneer on this one and getting the dose low enough is critical, and extremely hard to do since we are talking in the order of mgs. Even slightly to much and the threshold to enternity is broached. Don't fall for all the stuff about it only lasting 5mins. It's perceived time that counts, and forever is a VERY long time when you are scared. Oh and it really does feel like forever that is not a figure of speech. Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 1:36pm Fair enough. If the world had all censored the shrooms issue like the Uk site did, nobody would know about the alternatives available for CH'rs that is a valid point but we are able to discuss it openly on other english speaking boards. If the UK site don't actively discuss the subject on there boards so! the Board is a stepping stone. 90% of the new posters do know what the net is and how to use it! My mum to has a PC and i don't think that she could use a MB let alone a search engine but most will know someone willing to help them search the NET for what ever they wish I know I've helped many family find things on the NET thats the way most people work. I really believe that my GP would want to help me cure the pain that i and other CH'rs endure it's there job and yes they will use almost anything to control the pain. I was on morphine to threat my CH just to give me some relief during a really bad spell. trouble is my GP doesn't know squat about CH he is learning the subject as fast as i am. trouble is you don't find much mention of shrooms use in the BMJ or the papers currently coming out of the inst of Neuro in the UK yet. lets hope that day comes soon. I know for a fact my GP wouldn't be recommending the use of anything out with the control of the GMC unless i could prove to him that it really works. (Flash you know about what shrooms could do and informed your GP, i don't think he would have recommended that you find some shrooms and start munching away) Thats like you going to your GP about baldness and him saying he's heard standing on your hands works try that for a bit!! they don't like dealing with rumors they trade in facts. When the trial is complete the UK will open up like they did with MS but it takes work. understanding GP's and Neuros and more hard work. OUCH UK do their bit to start off the support possess, CH is a big thing to deal with! we all deal with it differently. Some turn to shrooms (they work, I don't know the first thing about them so if I wanted to I'd find someone that did) Remember to both the UK and Non UK posters this censorship issue is much more complicated than the OUCH UK people hiding facts. The UK as a nation are usually very retarded in what they discuss. We as a People Crippled by PC and a stiff upperlip attitude. the US pretends it has much more freedom but really it's no better. there are things that people in the UK will not speak about. That is the challenge is to change the mindset of the Nation not just that of OUCH UK. so before the morals of one charity are trashed over one issue it doesnt discuss can we sort the rest of the country first. this thread has advanced the awareness of the shrooms issue and the issues with the Law. For that thank you I have learned alot from this thread. others that observe and post to have learned alot tothat is after all the point of threads like these where they are hosted and can be hosted is down to WEBmasters (Thanks to DJ? for allowing this) Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 1:53pm Quote:
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 2:23pm Nice quote Fu- but which society of sheep are you refering to? The UK?? we my friend are Sheep lead by Sheep lead by the US to the slaughter houses of the world. OUCH UK? we are not sheep nor are we lead by wolves. I have a habit of being free thinking and choose to do as i please. Is Fu- maybe just trying to kick his fellow CH'rs at the other end of the pond because we have an issue the CH.com site doesn't? All in the name of what? Surely you should be working on getting Shrooms legal in the US so you can do as we do choose or not to take these things to abort and prevent CH attacks. Scott PS if i could think of a good quote i would but I'm a dark ages scot so the great quotes of the world escape me just now!!! maybe when we get as much freedom as the Great US I can get me some learning!!!!! |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Bob P on Mar 9th, 2004, 2:48pm Quote:
I like George W. even if he is a little stoopid. I'd like him even more if he would take a couple steps to the right. I'd trade him for Tony B. any day! I think you got hell of good 'un there. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Melissa on Mar 9th, 2004, 2:55pm I was going to add to this thread. But I changed my mind. Besides, I'm a woman and it's my perogative to do so.;;D :P |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 3:00pm Our Good ol' Tony is a World Statesman that keeps the world a safer place, unless you stay in the UK where the place is falling to bits. He promises much but delivers little on domestics. I admire the man on his stand on terror. the way he goes about it leads me to believe he too follows another. Sheep lead by a sheep with a higher IQ than most. Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 9th, 2004, 3:04pm Just a couple of clarifications. Flash does not have a message board. Clusterbusters has a message board but it's open by invitation only. This message board (DJ's) is the only place these matters are openly discussed. This message board (DJ's) is not a place ( in my humble opinion) where a lot of people from the UK would comfortably reside and be open and honest enough to ask a lot of questions. Hell, this place scares ME and I don't scare easily. Thats not to say that many UK'ers don't contribute and feel very much at home here. It's just that I know that ....well, you Brits know better than I. If shrooms aren't discussed in any way on the OUCH UK site, how many peolpe even KNOW to do a search on shrooms? They aren't discussed at the OUCH US message board either. The difference is, as problematic as it may be, this message board (DJ's) and OUCH US are connected at the hip and this board is basically the OUCH US sounding board. I'd say 99% of the people in OUCH US came here first. I'd venture to guess that 99.9% of OUCH US members know about shrooms. What percentage of UK'ers know about shrooms? We at Clusterbusters are so convinced that this treatment is the BEST and safest treatment available, are ONLY interested in letting as many people as possible know about it. How many lurkers to the UK site know about shrooms? I'd venture a guess that 99% of the lurkers here know about them. C'mom...we like you Brits...a lot. We probably like Blair and your country more than you do!! Who would you (as a UK citizen) trust more? A fellow UK'er that that tells you that shrooms worked and be able to ask them followup questions, or one of us crazy americans? Even though the Clusterbusters site gives a lot of information and strives to answer as many questions as possible, before they come up, almost every person that tries them has a lot of additional questions. How do they know whom to ask? Whom DO they ask? My contact info is there and I handle a lot of questions for people. Many of whom are from the UK. Once again, they are asking someone that goes by the name of "Pinkfloyd" and having to trust me. Enough so to even write to me in the first place. How many won't do that, knowing that OUCH UK appears to not trust me. (yes it may appear that way to many people that don't know who I am or why OUCH UK won't allow posts about it.) Do they know if there is someone they can write to in the UK that they can trust? Yes, OUCH (all of them) do a lot of work that takes away suffering. It will be a while before anything is on the "market" that will eliminate cluster suffering. Everyone does the best they can to help others, in many ways. Let us do our part. Let us do more. This argument is not about who did what, but about who can do more. Look people.....Clusterbusters....every one of us, is doing this for the people that haven't yet discovered this treatment. Not the ones that have. Not the members of Clusterbusters. We could have easily sank into the darkness, happy that we removed our shackles. Safe in knowing that we could take care of ourselves, basically for free for the rest of our lives. Instead of that, we are putting our names, our jobs, in some cases our freedom on the line.....for you. Flash could have done so years ago and decided not to ever post his experience. Pinksharkmark could have done the same. We could have gone away quietly and lives happily ever after. But....we know full well, the difference this can and in most cases does, make in the lives of cluster sufferers. We can't sit by and allow anyone to suffer that we think we can help. Many of the people that have taken that leap of faith to try this and suceeded, did so because they were at the end of their rope. Shrooms were their last option. I don't know if suicide is legal in the UK but it's not in the US. We'd like to be able to reach out to everyone, before their lives have been destroyed to the point they think about ending the suffering that way. If we're too loud for some of you, I'm sorry. P.FLoyd |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 3:37pm Pinkfloyd, If only your latest post was the first!!! If non of the OUCH sites discuss the issue WHY was the UK sites stance ripped apart? I can't speak for anyothe UK poster but I'm sure most have lurked here. There are threads that point a bored lurker in this direction so exposure by proxi. Yes admittidly you need to be a brave soul to post here. and the UK site is a quiet haven to this place but, those that do like the spirit that this site offers it's a challenge. One thing a CHr is good at is rising to a challenge. we do it everytime the beast visits. A point to note is that No person has rubbished Flash's claim about shrooms and we have repeatedly thanked his stance on the treatment. The only thing that got the blood boiling was the blast on the UK OUCH site. AS YOU would defend yourselves if this or the US site had similar claims laid against it! Suicide (un-helped) is unfortunatly legal in this country as are a great many things. But like i said there is alot that the UK nation will not talk openly about that just the way. Don't Get me wrong WE love our little island home and all its Taboo's yes some would like to see them change but a nation that has a 5000year history has many an issue to deal with. I also love the work that OUCH does and what the Clusterbusters do and I hope one way one day we shall have a cure those at the front will get the credit they deserve!!! Until then CH.com is the open forum to discuss shrooms as with the US ouch. More brits than you think float here as guests. We like your Loud US ways. Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by SteveY on Mar 9th, 2004, 3:41pm Sorry, but I have to mention a few points here. 1. I understand why OUCH UK cannot condone shrooms. 2. I do not agree with them (have you seen whats on the net?) but understand why. 3. tommy D, no we do not have the freedom of speech you have in the US, would you like to meet up in Cuba and discuss it? No, why is that? Get a reality check. PFDAN to all. SteveY ps nice to hear from you again Flash. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 3:43pm on 03/09/04 at 14:23:44, Robert the....... wrote:
Probably not the best quote I could have picked, but I picked it because you, like sheep, are far too accepting of the ridiculous arguements against the sharing of free, relevent, legal information with people who are literally killing themselves for lack of it. Furthermore, the whole reason I'm saying anything at all is for the people in the UK who have a right to know. If their official source of information won't even acknowledge the possibility of the existence of shroom treatment, well that's worth talking about. And where the hell else can I talk about it? Certainly not on the OUCH (UK) site. I guess I'm just supposed to shut my mouth, knowing full well that people are suffering (and DYING, God damnit) just because some self-appointed censors feel the chill of government information control (which, btw, is more imaginary than real.) I'll say it again. Tragic. Medieval. Unacceptable. Make fun of our 'freedoms' all you want. Seems to me we are as free (or not) as our laws make us. You are shackled by laws that do not exist in any ledger. People die because of it. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 4:06pm Fu- Read Pinkfloyds post. OUCH as an entire world - US, UK and most likely the Italians, germans and others etc all have this same issue in discussing Shrooming on there sites. Legal or not OUCH don't talk about it. the UK sheep don't talk on the main site if we want to, we come here!! thats what it's for. THIS is the only CH dedicated board that openly discusses the issue of Shrooms. and people from all over the world have been seen and posted on this thread. As was quoted much earlier. the shrooming issue in the UK is a gray area of the law. it isn't illegal but the subject isn't discussed openly on MB's or the TV/Radio If it was raised on our good old BBC it would be called controversial why, because there has been NO offical testing carried out on shroom use in the UK Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 4:28pm on 03/09/04 at 16:06:44, Robert the....... wrote:
Wrong. Infact, there is a direct link to the shroom topic from the OUCH site in America (clusterheadaches.org.) We talk about it even though it's not a legal treatment. We talk about it even though it is controversial. We talk about it so people will know about it. Defending your policy of censorship (call it what it is) by pointing out non-censored sites is just a non-linear argument. It would be like America saying that slavery was OK because there's no slavery in Canada. The censorship is hurtful and damaging to those who need the information, but more importantly IT"S UNNECESSARY. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 9th, 2004, 4:37pm on 03/09/04 at 15:37:09, Robert the....... wrote:
Scott.. It wasn't the first because I didn't bring this subject up. I have enough trouble fixing my own home let alone everyone else's. I just felt I needed to put a couple ideas out there. I have PLENTY of issues and problems with OUCH US but again, see my first paragraph. OUCH US doesn't have a message board set up to discuss oxygen, let alone mushrooms. I don't have time to even go there (meaning discussions). If I did, I'd answer some of Elaine's questions. I did a couple times before and was ..what's the word, "slagged" for it?? ;) OUCH UK is being discussed because: 1. They have a message board that discusses treatments. 2. Obviously after all these posts, many people believe that shrooms should/could be discussed there. 3. This seems to be the only place people that reside in the UK can publicly discuss this issue. 4. Seems like a couple of people have been wanting to discuss it for some time. 5. DJ is a nice guy and is willing to allow his site to be used to try and solve a problem between OUCH UK and some of it's members. P.Floyd |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 5:03pm am I Humbled By the Mighty USofA. FUK that You as a person Fu have taken some VERY personal issue with the UK board!! Nobody discusses the Shrooms there WE all do it HERE!!!!!! I posted earlier Most Brits visit here and other sites we are an informed nation. You still assume that the UK board is our only source of information on the subject. yet i have spent the best part of my day here on this site how did i manage that? followed the links did the search? I'm sure a IM to a longer term sufferer would give alternatives methods of control / aborting CH. If a sufferer is at the end of their rope with it the helpline is a talking tool like the SAMARITIANS it's to stop them doing somthing stupid. OUCH don't advise on what drugs to take they can't they aren't medics but if you ask they will tell you what can work. AS I said the UK board is a STEPPING STONE to the CH world. We may have a censored board at home. but it gets you started on the MANY CH paths. shrooming is just one. I know if i first read a thread like this on the home board as i was diagnosed I would have steered WELL clear. Does the US OUCH have active threads on Shrooming? I'm not stupid the UK CHr's aren't stupid if we want to we look outside of the BOX. thats why we are here! as guests and as posters. JUST cos we dont talk about it on the home board. doesn't mean that the subject is closed. Earlier i said alot of the newbies to the UK board are Infromed by Proxi! most of the regular UK CHr's post here and the newbies often visit and watch. If you get to one board you can get to the other!! Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 5:22pm Scott, Personal issue? Yes, I guess I get a little upset when I realize that things like this go on because nobody cares to question it. Let's take, for example, an example where a CH sufferer is NOT web-savvy. Maybe he/she only gets information from friends who might know enough of his condition to look it up on the web at home. Maybe that person is living under the same unholy and unnecessary censorship that OUCH (UK) is. So, being a good sheep, the friend can't seriously provide any information that seems, well, controversial. So, the printouts contain various informational tidbits on approved meds and the like. No clue about shrooms. Why would there be? Now why is it that that person should not at least have the chance to learn about the connection between shrooms and CH? Hmmm? Should they be sentenced to a life long hell of CH pain when there’s a possibility the cure was sitting there on High St. waiting for them for years? I, for one, would have NEVER made the leap in my mind to say "Hmmm... I think I'll try shrooms and see if these killer headaches cease." Much to the contrary. I was loath to think of the unbearable pain that might result by ENHANCING the painful experience. You see, I was chronic. That means 'don't fuck with your brain, it already hurts'. You are NOT the person I am making this argument for. It's the ones at OUCH (UK) who may have NO FUCKING CLUE about this. Are you comfortable telling me 'nobody is stupid' and assuming they ALL know there is at least the possibility that shrooms could cure them? You think it's what, 99%? 95%. What? You can't say because you can't even ASK THE QUESTION. I have no personal issue with ANYBODY at OUCH (UK) God bless them and what they have done for CH sufferers and awareness in the UK and worldwide for that matter. However, that doesn't buy them a free pass on THIS issue. Are you expected to never question ANYTHING once the thing has been established? For Christ's sake Scott, this is NOT a personal issue. It a question of saving lives of people you don't even know. This isn't between you and I. See, I told you I'd regret this. Now I do. And I'm not sorry, that's different. -Fu |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 5:38pm FU- It really isn't personal!! I'm scottish and naturally defensive. YES i fully agree the UK site will have to look at some point about shrooming but i think that need to wait until testing starts. If PFloyd is correct the US OUCH hasn't got O2 on MB yet! That to is an effective abortive for some! most people on this board use it! so why isn't it talked about? Its under tests in the UK for aborting CH thats why our threads are open on that its a matter of time!!! Both camps have issues to deal with! the UK site has work to do as does the US site Here the Battle ground of the TWO are where the Real issues gets discussed first!!! and discussion is what we are doing. SAVING Lives effected by this condition is what we all want but all the boards need to open up a bit. but we need more research first. Scott Mates? ;) |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Bob P on Mar 9th, 2004, 6:00pm PF is and is not wrong. OUCH does list O2 as an abortive in it's "medications" page. Aslo show the non-rebreather mask. What we need to do is link the O2 site. What OUCH does not have is a message board to discuss things like this. We leave that up to the sister site (this board). OUCH only has a message board to discuss the business of the organization and the various committees (although some of it has been hidden from the members' eyes with the new administration and that I don't like). OUCH has no problem discussing anything. Heck, I remember having a discussion on whether we should discuss the shrooms on the old, "open" Business Board. Our only reservation is in "officially" endorsing treatments which are not legal or have not been approved for CH. |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 6:09pm Thanks BOB! For clearing that and this messy thread up. Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Flash on Mar 9th, 2004, 6:23pm Scott, What we are trying to explain is that the OUCH (US) message board is set aside for OUCH business. This site here is the message board for CH sufferers. The UK site is different, the OUCH (UK) message board duplicates a lot of what happens here. In my opinion that makes no sense, it would be better to have a UK specific forum here. However the WWW is a distributed medium so it's no great shakes. Come and get me Filbert! BTW you may or may not be aware that I am an Aberdonian and have hardly been South of Stonehaven during my entire 33 1/2 years. I've suffered from CH since I was 16. I owe if not my physical life, everything that is good about it (and there is a lot good about it) to this treatment. Many people find that CH starts off bad and gets worse. The HAs I got in '86 are nothing compared with what I get hit with now should I miss a treatment or decide to prick around with the beast in the name of science. OUCH (US) does have a link. It's message board as I have explained is set aside for OUCH business so of little value here. HSG also has a button (and it's very prominent) regarding this treatment. In fact to the best of my knowledge only the UK site lacks a link. None of the other discussion boards prohbit talk of shrooms. The OUCH (US) board is not censored. OUCH (US) have also approached me in the past for my story to put in their newslettter, but I never got around to it. Our only beef with OUCH (US) is that they do not do enough to support us. They have never offered to release any funding for this treatment for instance. Now compare that with the UK... Forget US, UK, EU, and all that. Me I'm a human being. In fact I'm not even sure I like being classified at that level. I am a soul (or at least half of one). Now lets assume that those other souls that moderate all the message boards had decided to censor my input. Well there would be no trials on the starting blocks. Some people would probably be dead. Justify that. What exactly is that in the name of? So great we can get this info here at CH.com. That does not excuse OUCH (UK). They are not going to get off this hook. OUCH (UK) have made it quite clear BY THEIR ACTIONS despite their sucky rhetoric that they do not approve of us. Therefore I see no wrong in making it quite clear that I disaprove of OUCH (UK). The difference is that I'm not witholding information that could save a life. However you slice and dice it, OUCH (UK) are wrong. Everything they have typed in this thread stinks of that, and you should see the fan mail in my PMs. In addition, however you slice and dice it, my original statement was TRUE. That's what pissed them off most. It was factual. It wasn't implied, it wasn't a guess, it wasn't an assumption... I was banned from their board - and this includes lurking not just posting, without any prior warning, for posting 2 messages on shroom treatment. I only posted the second one because the first one mysteriously dissappeared. What is that if it isn't supression of information. And do not call shrooms a gray area. Did you visit the Home Office link? They are no more a gray area than Absinthe or poppers. Not only that some GPs have pointed people towards ClusterBusters. Unofficially, and not on a prescription, but some do. I know this for a fact. Why do you think they take this chance? Because those poor fuckers with CH are close to the end of their rope. Now lets pretend the illness wasn't CH but cancer. Imagine a UK cancer charity witholding information on something that could indefinately put cancer into remission. Their reason for doing this was that the treatment was Absinthe, and someone in a position of trust and power felt that Absinthe should be illegal. No matter what other good work that charity did, their behaviour would be inexcusable. People cannot be fussy when it comes to a treatment. There is no guarantee something equally good or better will ever materialise. I'd hazard a guess it won't. I'd also hazard a guess that DMT is they key to all this. Oh and for what it's worth Absinthe is illegal in the US. NOW DO YOU GET IT? Flash |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 9th, 2004, 6:55pm Flash I knew you where an Aberdonian. You fight with the stuborn Passion that all people from here fight with you know your issues and you stuck to them! as do i. I'm new to CH having had it triggered in May 03. I'm still learning only started to post around a week ago. You have issues with OUCH UK fine you brought an issue to the public CH forum it got blurred a bit, many of the UK posters have been and contributed to this. Things on the UK board could change that isn't for me to decide! until then we visit here to learn of your alternatives. Thats what this open MB is about. There is alot of sense in your cause. I hope that the threatment becomes mainstream after it has been through testing. Scott |
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by fubar on Mar 9th, 2004, 10:40pm I found a more appropriate quote: Quote:
oops, turns out that was actually from Ella Wheeler Wilcox. Here's another: Quote:
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Title: Re: fresh shrooms now for sale legally all over th Post by Robert the....... on Mar 10th, 2004, 2:10am Them thar Quotes are MUCH better Fu- I prefer "you canna see wee yer eyes shut laddie" by my father just before i walked into a lampost!!! (Minor translation to the word eyes) Works for ME Scott |
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