Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
        
(Message started by: ozzman on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 9:18am)

Title: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by ozzman on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 9:18am

Funny how events in your life set you off on paths that bring you full circle.

Las Friday I had another scary incident that sent me to the ER. I was vomiting blood late at night and decided that it was a situation best not to wait 'til Monday. So yes I have gastrtitis, possible ulcer, will make the appointment with the gastroenterologist, etc.

Talking to my father he suggested Cat's Claw as an alternative for treatment, he has very succesfully used it himself. He mentioned it's anti-inflammatory properties.

That got me thinking, if it is that good, could you use it like say prednisone and break a cycle?

So I started doing some research online, turns out, Cat's Claw also has oxindole alkaloids. Indole being the keyword here.

I have no clue about biochemistry, so at this point I need Floridian's help, and the Clusterbuster's bunch as well. Is this somehing worth looking into?

Just a stab in the dark...

Ozzy

PS: I found some info here, commercial site, but good info:

http://www.rain-tree.com/catclaw.htm

Title: Re: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by floridian on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 10:42am

Ozzman,

Very interesting chemical profile of Uncaria (and cats claw in particular). Definitely worth more consideration.

Preliminary scan of literature (all species of Uncaria):
* protects against N-methyl-D-aspartate/glutamate damage to nerves.
*contains indole alkaloids that are vasodialtors (in short term - long term might desensitize to dilation??)
* acts as a calcium channel blocker, opens potassium channels, can be anti-arrythmic
* Inhibits MAO-B. Good is small doses for many diseases, can be a real problem if excessive (most MAO-I drugs taken off market in US due to high blood pressure - but cat's claw decreases blood pressure, so this is probably a minor mode of action)
*Inhibits NF-kappa-B (which is elevated in CH).
*A Chinese species (U. yuanensis) contains beta-yohimbine; yohimbine used as an aphrodesiac but raises blood pressure and can cause other serious side effects. Not sure how much (if any) is in U. tomentosa).
*Interestingly: "Anti-inflammatory and antioxidant activities of cat's claw (Uncaria tomentosa and Uncaria guianensis) are independent of their alkaloid content." (the whole herb is more active than any single chemical ingredient).
*Cat's claw had no deleterious effects on blood or liver function or other significant side-effects compared to placebo (study of 30 patients). In other studies on rats, no changes in liver, kidneys, or blood seen. (not yet proven safe, but appears safe).
*Enhances DNA repair.
*Stimulates IL-1 and IL-6 (IL-1 already high in CH).

This abstract on cat's claw is very interesting:

Quote:

Eur J Pharmacol. 2002 May 24;444(1-2):39-45. Pteropodine and isopteropodine positively modulate the function of rat muscarinic M(1) and 5-HT(2) receptors expressed in Xenopus oocyte.

Kang TH, Matsumoto K, Tohda M, Murakami Y, Takayama H, Kitajima M, Aimi N, Watanabe H.

Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Natural Medicine, Toyama Medical and Pharmaceutical University, 2630 Sugitani, Toyama, 930-0194, Japan.

Pteropodine and isopteropodine are heteroyohimbine-type oxindole alkaloid components of Uncaria tomentosa (Willd.) DC, a Peruvian medicinal plant known as cat's claw. In this study, the effects of these alkaloids on the function of Ca(2+)-activated Cl(-) currents evoked by stimulation of G protein-coupled muscarinic M(1) acetylcholine and 5-HT(2) receptors were studied in Xenopus oocytes in which rat cortex total RNA was translated. Pteropodine and isopteropodine (1-30 microM) failed to induce membrane current by themselves. However, these alkaloids markedly enhanced the current responses evoked by both acetylcholine and 5-hydroxyhyptamine (5-HT) in a concentration-dependent and reversible manner with the maximal effects at 30 microM. Pteropodine and isopteropodine produced 2.7- and 3.3-fold increases in the acetylcholine response with EC(50) values of 9.52 and 9.92 microM, respectively, and 2.4- and 2.5-fold increases in the 5-HT response with EC(50) values of 13.5 and 14.5 microM, respectively. In contrast, in oocytes injected with total RNA from the rat cerebellum or spinal cord, neither alkaloid had an effect on the metabotropic current responses mediated by glutamate receptor(1 and 5) (mGlu(1/5)) receptors or ionotropic responses mediated by N-methyl-D-aspartate, kainic acid or glycine. Pteropodine and isopteropodine (10 microM) significantly reduced the EC(50) values of acetylcholine and 5-HT that elicited current responses, but had no effect on the maximal current responses elicited by acetylcholine and 5-HT. On the other hand, mitraphylline, a stereoisomer of pteropodine, failed to modulate acetylcholine- and 5-HT-induced responses. These results suggest that pteropodine and isopteropodine act as positive modulators of muscarinic M(1) and 5-HT(2) receptors.

Cats claw acts on 5-ht2 receptors (the same receptors as clusterbusters - psilocybin and LSD). Not sure if it acts the same way as clusterbusters (minus the visions), but anything that affects the 5ht2 receptors deserves investigating. It also increases the action of acetycholine (which I think is an overlooked actor in CH).

Another article of interest linked to above: "Ethanol inhibits the function of 5-hydroxytryptamine type 1c and muscarinic M1 G protein-linked receptors in Xenopus oocytes expressing brain mRNA: role of protein kinase C." - alcohol may trigger CH by blocking the triptan receptors and the muscarinic/acetylcholine receptors.

One thought related to clusterbusters - just came across several studies that shows hyperforin (one of the ingredients in Saint Johns wort) acts on the 5-ht2 receptors. The one year in the past decade that I was completely free of clusters and all the related symptoms was when I took a hefty dose of SJW each day. I know others have tried SJW with no results, and am wondering if the dose was too small (not enough, or weak preparation), or not taken long enough (takes 8 weeks or more to kick in and change hypothalamus).

Title: Re: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by ozzman on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 11:02am

Thanks Floridian, that's exactly the type of response I was looking for.

It looks like I will very shortly undertake some treatment with Cat's Claw. Eight months of CH in the crrent "cycle" and all the other peropheral problems (heart irregularity, stomach problems), believe I'm ready to try something else.

Will keep everyone posted.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by Tiannia on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 11:09am

Not sure if it was coincidence or not but this last fall I started taking SJW because I though maybe I was having tension HA along with the clusters. And the SJW along with Chamomile tea are two heralistic remedies for Tension HA. My clusters where lessened in intensity. They did not stop but I was not consistently getting hit with a K7 or higher each time. But my doc told me to stop taking the SJW because it might effect the inderol.

Just throwing out ideas. I would much prefer to take cats claw (or any herbal / holistic remedy) rather then the manufactured drugs that they give us.

Tiannia

Title: Re: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by floridian on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 11:23am

One thing to consider - clusterbusters sometimes triggers headaches initially, and then remission sets in.

My theory is that the short term effects are different from the long term effects ... the 5ht2 receptors are stimulated at first, but tolerance sets in, and they are resistant. Or it could be a three part action - stimulation, tolerance, adjusted. Still working on that.

The ethnobotanical angle (used by South American Indians for vascular headaches) is another indication it may be useful.

Title: Re: Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa)
Post by floridian on Feb 23^rd, 2004, 12:22pm

Tiana,

your doctor was right (though possibly for the wrong reason). Like many anti-depressants, SJW down-regulates the beta receptors. Combining it with a beta blocker could be bad news. The literature for SJW-drug interactions doesn't mention this specifically, but the possibility is real.

Most known precautions related to SJW are due to the fact that the wort increases serotonin (and other neurotransmitters) and induces cytochrome p450 in the liver. P450 speeds the metabolism of certain drugs and can make them less effective (including oral contraceptives and transplant immunosuppressants). This is the opposite of grapefruit juice, which reduces C-p450 and increases the levels of some drugs (sometimes dangerously).

Quote:

Possible Drug Interactions
Do not use St. John's Wort while taking a prescription drug classified as an MAO inhibitor, such as Nardil or Parnate. At least in theory, a dangerous interaction is possible.
It's also best to avoid combining St. John's Wort with serotonin-boosting drugs such as Celexa, Luvox, Paxil, Prozac, Serzone, and Zoloft. The excessive levels of serotonin that may result can trigger sweating, tremors, flushing, confusion, and agitation.
If you are taking medications for HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, do not use St. John's Wort. The herb is known to interfere with at least one HIV drug–Crixivan–and may reduce the effect of others, including Agenerase, Fortovase, Invirase, Norvir, and Viracept. St. John's Wort should also be avoided by people taking Neoral, a drug used to keep transplant patients from rejecting their new organs. It can inhibit the drug's life-saving effect.
If you use a hormonal form of contraception, you should remember that oral contraceptive failure has occasionally been reported in women taking St. John's Wort.
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/herbaldrugs/102670.shtml