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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Choline
        
(Message started by: JohnWF on Feb 11^th, 2004, 10:57pm)

Title: Choline
Post by JohnWF on Feb 11^th, 2004, 10:57pm

I'm wondering if anyone can speak to the affects of Choline on their Cluster Cycles.

Have you tried taking increased doses and have you had any positive impact on your clusters or cluster cycles?

Thanks,

John

Title: Re: Choline
Post by pubgirl on Feb 12^th, 2004, 6:27am

John

I had no idea about choline. Looked it up and can't see the relevance for CH sufferers as it seems to be a nutritional supplement used by sportspeople mainly which is found naturally in a variety of foods I eat anyway (and I get CH.)

On side effects though, the site I read did say:

"Choline is perfectly safe to take, the only potential problem being an occasional bout of diarrhea or some pretty foul flatulence"

OOOOOEEERRRR, separate bedrooms it is then! ;;D

Wendy

Sorry, being serious. I have never taken it as a supplement and wouldn't until someone suggests I am deficient and it may help my CH.

Title: Re: Choline
Post by floridian on Feb 12^th, 2004, 12:29pm

Wendy,

you are probably deficient in choline. But I won't tell you it will help with clusters. Nobody knows yet. Lithium raises choline levels, though no one really knows how lithium works.

Quote:

Br Med J (Clin Res Ed). 1984 Jan 28;288(6413):268-70.

Erythrocyte choline concentrations and cluster headache.

Erythrocyte choline concentrations were measured in patients with cluster headache and age related control subjects. Concentrations were significantly reduced in the patients with headache both during a cluster period and between clusters, being 58% and 55% of the control value, respectively. After two weeks' treatment with lithium, choline concentrations in the patients with cluster headache increased to 78 times the control value (mean 369.2 mumol/l (3840 micrograms/100 ml) compared with 4.7 mumol/l (49 micrograms/100 ml]. The presence of depressed erythrocyte choline concentrations during and between cluster attacks indicates that this may be a predisposing condition which results in a cluster attack only when associated with a trigger factor.

Don't know if choline will help in clusters but we seem to be deficient in it. It is necessary for producing the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Nicotine (which seems to be pretty popular here) fits into and stimulates a subset of the acetylcholine receptors. This might make clusterheads more easily addicted if they experiment with smoking. Alternatively, smoking may mess up choline/acetylcholine because we are sensitive in some other respect. Or both.

The vagus (parasympathetic) nerves rely on acetylcholine. An imbalance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems causes heart rate problems in many clusterheads (myself included). And problems with body temperature regulation. The imbalance is worst around an attack.

These articles show one way that a choline deficiency might contribute to clusters: here is a newly discovered anti-inflammatory system (neuroimmune) that is dependent on acetylcholine. The articles are kinda similar, but each has a few unique details.

Quote:

J Endotoxin Res. 2003;9(6):409-13.

Neural inhibition of inflammation: the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway.

Czura CJ, Friedman SG, Tracey KJ.

Laboratory of Biomedical Science, North Shore-LIJ Research Institute, Manhasset, NY 11030, USA.

The innate immune system is activated by infection and injury to release pro-inflammatory cytokines, which activate macrophages and neutrophils and modulate specific cellular responses. The magnitude of the cytokine response is critical, because a deficient response may result in secondary infections, while an excessive response may be more injurious than the original insult. We recently described a neural pathway, termed the "cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway", that reflexively monitors and adjusts the inflammatory response by inhibiting pro-inflammatory cytokine synthesis. Efferent signals in the vagus nerve provide a direct mechanism for neural regulation of the immune response that is rapid, localized, and integrated. Vagus nerve stimulation inhibits the release of TNF, HMGB1, and other cytokines, and protects against endotoxemia and ischemia-reperfusion injury. This newly identified physiological mechanism of maintaining immunological homeostasis suggests that novel therapeutics may effectively modulate inflammatory responses by activating the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway.

Quote:

Mol Med. 2003 May-Aug;9(5-8):125-34.

The cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway: a missing link in neuroimmunomodulation.

Pavlov VA, Wang H, Czura CJ, Friedman SG, Tracey KJ.

Laboratory of Biomedical Science, North Shore LIJ-Research Institute, Manhasset, NY 11030, USA.

This review outlines the mechanisms underlying the interaction between the nervous and immune systems of the host in response to an immune challenge. The main focus is the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway, which we recently described as a novel function of the efferent vagus nerve. This pathway plays a critical role in controlling the inflammatory response through interaction with peripheral a7 subunit-containing nicotinic acetylcholine receptors expressed on macrophages. We describe the modulation of systemic and local inflammation by the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway and its function as an interface between the brain and the immune system. The clinical implications of this novel mechanism also are discussed.

Title: Re: Choline
Post by pubgirl on Feb 12^th, 2004, 2:14pm

Hey Floridian's research strikes again.

If it works and the only side effect is farting a lot, has to be worth considering! ;;D

W

Title: Re: Choline
Post by JohnWF on Feb 12^th, 2004, 9:02pm

Thanks for the input. I had read that folks with Clusters were low in Choline, so I may have "jumped" at the idea of finding something magical to beat down the beast. But I guess if one doesn't try new methods to win against CH, the pain will win--

I think I will increase my Vitamin B and Choline dosage.

Thanks again.

John

Title: Re: Choline
Post by floridian on Feb 13^th, 2004, 10:40am

Quote:

I may have "jumped" at the idea of finding something magical to beat down the beast. But I guess if one doesn't try new methods to win against CH, the pain will win--

I agree we need to try things - things that are safe and have a chance of working. I raised the choline issue a while back - thought alot about it a few weeks after my last cycle. I took it for a while - no dramatic effects or side effects, but then, I wasn't in cycle and didn't take the large doses associated with fish-breath and flatulence. Still have a bottle of it for the summer. This post got me thinking about it again, and I came across the work on the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway for the first time, making the idea more logical. No guarantees, but I do think this idea is solid. Maybe choline won't work but some semi-synthetic analog will. For CH, I think the cholinergic pathway will be researched and talked about as much as serotonin and the hypothalamus.