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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Connection: intelligence?
        
(Message started by: deekaph on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 2:35am)

Title: Connection: intelligence?
Post by deekaph on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 2:35am

Just a thought here guys, but in the past week I've been talking with some of my professors and two of them said "Yes, I get the suicide headaches..." ... Then I picked up "Pi" (a film about a guy with clusters who is looking for the god number) and I've been thinking.......

Is this our punishment for being smart or what? My profs are obviously highly intelligent (the D in PhD don't stand for dummy, as Dr. Tapley always says), and all false modesty aside, I know I'm unusually bright and creative. In three years I written, performed, produced and recorded over 200 songs all by myself, speak a couple/few languages and play 6-12 different instruments (depending upon how you start counting). I'm also a published poet and private author, former policy maker/speech writer for a political party (when I was 21), and am an otherwise vast vault of obscure knowledge. Not to mention my innate talent for rambling on about myself. Excuse me. :)

My point is this: if we constitute 0.4-0.07% of the population, there seems to be an abnormally high rate of incidences in my small University in a small town of less than 100,000 people. Is anyone else here abnormally gifted, talented, or endowed with extraordinary powers of intellectual prowess? If so, is this a result of our mutual condition, or is our condition a result of our genius?

Just a thought....

May you all have a pain free day.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by Timmi on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 2:54am

Wow!Impressive!
If intelligence is a factor in this thing someone forgot to tell me that I was intelligent.In fact i am so averege it's pathetic.
Could be something to it though.I've never met another person with clusters in person.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by Timmi on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 2:58am

I do well playing along with who wants to be a millionaire ;) mabey I've not lived up to my potential.
Come to think of it---the last IQ test I took on the net revealed to me that I was a"visionary philosopher".
No lies on the net right?
So I guess you are right.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 4:33am

Athough this does not apply to all clusterheads, there does seem to be an abnormaly high number of persons with musical or creative tendacies who suffer.

Although my spelling sucks, I would consider myself to be gifted in several ways including creativity and music.

I saw Pi several years ago and always wondered what inspired that film.

just my 2c
jmin

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by Nimbus on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 8:27am

If it's the case, go find me a medication that render stupid.
On a side note:
In five years I never encountered anyone with CH. Them I got a new job and, surprise surprise, on 30 employees, 3 (including myself) are suffering from CH.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by thomas on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 8:36am

Well if I was smart enough to be able to read your post, I might agree with you. Since I am an idiot, I don't know......... LMAO.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by 5-string on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 8:45am

I don't know.....kind of a stretch if you ask me..
The longer this thing lives in the shadows and does'nt show it's face......you can fill in the rest.
Could be?.?!/?Who knows?

Hey, I got an idea...What are peoples I.Q. here?
Mine is =136. not so bad

...Mark..

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by benj on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 9:17am

deekaph, interesting idea. Surely if not connected to intelligence (which is wholly possible) then it must be something else that implies a mental proclivity. I too am a creative sonbitch being a filmmaker and don't consider myself too stupid. wonder if this is the key? [smiley=huh.gif]

if so, maybe this is why neuros won't give us the 'answer' - they are trying to keep us from toppling them off the smart tree by keeping us in the bedroom, clutching icepacks and pills?? [smiley=laugh.gif]

if only....

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by thomas on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 9:19am

I personally think it has something to do with these damnable alien implants.........(deekaph - please don't take offense to my remarks...... too much caffeine)

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by benj on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 9:20am

not to mention the webbed feet....... 8)

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by thomas on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 9:25am

Oh and don't forget all cluster males are EXTREMELY handsome......... well except maybe for don....

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by floridian on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 9:28am

Yes, there were excruciating headaches in Pi. There were also hallucinations, nose-bleeding, black-outs, and a paranormal understanding of the universe. And the headaches were triggered by stress. And the headaches went away at the end when the guy gave up his quest to understand the universe.

Pi was just a story. The headaches were a literary device, not a real medical phenomena. And don't forget the main point of the movie - math causes headaches!

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by toader on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 10:37am

Here comes the curve wrecker .... YABBA DABBA DOOO!!!
[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by ave on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 11:36am

Did you consider that there has been a larger chance for intelligent people to cotton on to puters and the Internet. The curve is flattening out now, but...

With all this anecdotal references, let's not forget this is only the english speaking Internet community we get our evidence from.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by LSUnut on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 11:56am

My doc actually suggested the notion to me once upon a time, but I just blew him off. Someone would have realized the link between the two way before now, and we'd have several journal articles at our disposal to support the idea. It is curious, however, that I never encountered my first attack until after my second year of grad school, and my work is way more mentally demanding than it is physically. I am a chemist (medicinal) though, so I also have to consider the fact that I get to sniff wonderful organic solvents all day long, which has also been proposed as a trigger. Funny thing is, I don't ever recall having an attack triggered while I was setting up a reaction. I would think that if any of the chemicals were triggers, I would get slammed as soon as I smelled the first whiff. Oddly enough, ethanol (my favorite chemical) has never been a trigger for me either. So, I'm willing to sacrifice myself for the good of all sufferers and continue drinking until I am sufficiently stupid [smiley=laugh.gif]. If the headaches eventually subside, we'll finally have some proof of the genius theory. At that point I hope I can still remember the web address for this site. ;)

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by violet on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 12:15pm

I'm a professional musician and music teacher, does that count?
Vi

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by floridian on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 1:00pm

Quote:

It is curious, however, that I never encountered my first attack until after my second year of grad school, and my work is way more mentally demanding than it is physically.

Mine also started in grad school - but I think that burning the midnight oil and being stressed over exams and papers was as much a factor as all that sitting and thinking. ::)

Keeping mentally active seems to ward off alzheimer's disease. Maybe overexercising the brain contributes to clusters.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by cakelady on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 1:27pm

I'm a very creative cake designer and pastry chef.
cakesbychristine.com
Creativity and precise formulas???????????
What does that do to the curve.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by CJohnson on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 1:42pm

on 01/23/04 at 02:35:12, deekaph wrote:

Is this our punishment for being smart or what?

Deekaph, with all due respect, I must protest this remark. Punishment?! Cluster headaches aren't a punishment. CH is a malady, a medical condition.

PFDANs
-Curtis

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by floridian on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 3:46pm

Quote:

Deekaph, with all due respect, I must protest this remark. Punishment?! Cluster headaches aren't a punishment. CH is a malady, a medical condition.

I don't think it is a punishment for anything specific. But the older I get, the more I get drawn to the possiblity: the gods must be crazy.

The secret of the universe is not in Pi, it is carefully hidden in Phi (or Tau), the Golden Ratio. http://www.sciencesbookreview.com/The_Golden_Ratio_The_Story_of_Phi_the_Worlds_Most_Astonishing_Number_0767908155.html

These bright young people discuss the secret of the universe: http://www.cariboo.bc.ca/summit/pics/youth_relax.jpg

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 5:35pm

Ok Floridian, I know you must analyze the movie PI and poo poo the notion that it actuallly was a CH that the man suffered from BUT my point was it sure the hell looked like the type of pain I have experienced while having an attack. I have never seen anywhere anything that even comes close. That, dear sir, was my point. :)

Oh yeah, the headaches in the movie PI wen't away after he took a drill to his head if we are going to get all technical here.

One last thing, the kids in that photo are phreakin me out man. I can almost smell the brain power just by looking at it. And their eyes follow me when I move about the room....LOL!

Whatever Floridian....what ever...:)

jmin but you can call me jim damnet

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by Prense on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 6:16pm

Ummm, what was the question again? ;;D

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by floridian on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 7:02pm

I'm not totally poo-pooing the idea. There are some real similarities in the movie to clusters, but I think the "Story" of the movie is more important than medical reality. The idea of intelligence and clusters has been brought up before - I don't know that there is any real information on it. Clusterheads do have some personality traits different from the overall population - see abstract below.

At first I thought the drill was used for a lobotomy, but now I'm thinking maybe it was for a trigeminal nerve resection or rhizotomy.

The picture is for deekaph - I think its his stomping grounds. (?)

OK, here's what research I found. Clusterhead males are more sensitive according to one study. According to another, we are more anxiety prone, hostile, and less sucessfully socialized. Another study not cited here found that compared to other headache sufferers, the CH group had the most abnormalities (20%) and the highest number of people completely normal (13%, whatever normal means). Yet another study found that clusterheads were more normal than migraineurs, and migraneurs were more normal than tension headachers in terms of anxiety, socialization, etc. I don't think there is much impetus in the academic world to find out which category of patients is smarter - that may account for the lack of research.

Quote:

Psychol Rep. 2000 Oct; 87(2): 555-8. Increased prevalence of sensing types in men with cluster headaches.

To ascertain whether the percentage of men who suffer with cluster headaches and are classified as sensing types according to Jung's theory of psychological types was comparable to the percentage (74%) of Sensing types that was found by Gallagher, et al. among women who experience migraine headaches, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator was administered to 25 male cluster-headache patients. There were 19 (76%) male Sensing types, and this was comparable to the percentage of Sensing types for migrainous women. The results are discussed as supporting previous contentions that Sensing types may be prone to developing psychosomatic symptoms related to stress.

Quote:

Headache. 1992 Mar; 32(3): 119-25. Episodic cluster headache. I: Personality and some neuropsychological characteristics in male patients.

The etiology and pathogenesis of cluster headache remain largely unknown. Some previous studies have focused on personality characteristics in cluster headache. However, no consistent personality profile has been found. The present study applied two personality inventories, the Karolinska Scales of Personality (KSP) and the Heart and Lifestyle Type A Measure (HALTAM), that have not previously been used in the context of cluster headache. A correlation has been suggested between left-handedness and early learning difficulties, and cluster headache. Thus, these variables were included and measured by inventory techniques. Forty-nine out of 51 consecutive male patients with episodic cluster headache participated in the present study. As compared to controls, the cluster headache patients were significantly more anxiety-prone (higher scores in the KSP Somatic anxiety and Muscular tension subscales), less successfully socialized (low scores in the KSP Socialization scale), and had a more hostile attitude towards others (higher scores in the HALTAM Hostility scale). No relationships between left-handedness or early learning difficulties, and cluster headache disease were found. The implications of the personality differences for the etiology of cluster headache disease are discussed.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by deekaph on Jan 23^rd, 2004, 8:14pm

As if to prove my point, I immediately recognised the picture you posted as that of my school, where the new international building is currently being erected in the place of the old observatory.

SEE!!!! You go to my school too! Abnormally high rate of incidences! What are the freakin chances!?

on 01/23/04 at 15:46:11, floridian wrote:

That's hi

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by toader on Jan 24^th, 2004, 12:42pm

or maybe you all also like chinese food? ;)

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by brad267 on Jan 24^th, 2004, 4:50pm

Not that I'm buying any of this...... but, y'all seem like "Right Brained Geniuses....."

Perhaps, it's not the high intelligence that makes us prone to CH, but "Left Brained Doltedness?"

In good humor,
Brad

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by LSUnut on Jan 26^th, 2004, 12:46am

Quote:

Not that I'm buying any of this...... but, y'all seem like "Right Brained Geniuses....."

Perhaps, it's not the high intelligence that makes us prone to CH, but "Left Brained Doltedness?"

But then which sided sufferer would that make us, right from overuse or left because of idle decay? And why don't we all suffer on the same side? It is a curious question, though, perhaps a link between which side of our brains we use most and on which side our HA's occur. Are there any ambidextrous CHers out there with HA's that frequently alternate from side to side?

BTW, I know some CHers suffer on alternating sides, I'm just joking at the thought ;;D.

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Jan 27^th, 2004, 11:14am

As a PhD.....I know something that many make false assumptions. The D......sometimes does stand for dummy. Having a PhD does NOT mean you are intelligent. In my case it meant I could withstand torture for 6 straight years right out of college (chemistry).

As for Pi. Darren Arronsky is THE most brilliant filmmaker I have ever seen. Besides Pi check out Requiem for a Dream. It is dark, disturbing, and stars Jennifer Connelly (yum yum). But...if you can look beyond the plot (addiction......drugs, tv, food, etc.), you will see the best screenplay or storyboards that have ever been put on film (in my opinion).

In Pi, I do believe the main character had clusterheadaches, no doubt.

-Fred

Title: Re: Connection: intelligence?
Post by CJohnson on Jan 27^th, 2004, 11:27am

Interview conducted by Ruby Rich from Inview.Kqed.Org concerning Darren Aronofsky's "Requiem For A Dream" and "Pi".

B. Ruby Rich (Ruby): I think you really put people into the space of, well, of somebody with a migraine headache. You know, how do you get there? Do you get migraines?

Darren Aronofsky (DA): No, a friend of mine who was a really talented actress, her career was basically devastated by her migraines, and I never realized they were so debilitating and I started talking to her and she, I started seeing artwork that came from, that migraine sufferers drew of their migraine attacks and it was exactly the type of things we were talking about, like the hand of god reaching down and pulling out a chunk of brain.

http://aronofksy.tripod.com/interview20.html

PFDANs
-Curtis