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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Menthol and Ibuprofen
        
(Message started by: davkel on Jan 5^th, 2004, 7:36pm)

Title: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 5^th, 2004, 7:36pm

I'm 73. I had a three month session of Kip 8/9/10 about twenty two years ago, nothing before or since, until now. I am getting 5/6/7 once twice or three times daily at irregular times. They started slowly, and I was fooled into thinking they were down to new spectacles, but trying no specs for a while and still getting headaches convinced me it was the clusters again. Because aspirin works well for me normally, that was my first shot, taking two followed by two more after half an hour. The pain lasted about an hour each time, with shadows before and after over a total of two or three hours. Cold compresses seemed to help, if kept absolutely still but any movement increased the pain. Today I tried 2 caps of Ibuprofen (antiinflammatory and analgesic) at the first sign, and I have the impression it kept the ache in check, as it didn't go above 4 or 5. After the peak, I inhaled menthol, which appeared to chop off the remaining pain very quickly. I also used menthol yesterday at the tail end of a hit, and that seemed beneficial too. Obviously, I don't know whether the same thing would have happened without the menthol, but I shall keep trying.

I used menthol crystals dissolved in water which I keep in a jar for clearing a blocked nose. About enough crystals to cover a dime in a jam jar is sufficient for weeks on end. For the clusters, I put the jar (open!) in the microwave for thirty seconds to warm it up, and inhaled several deep breaths through the blocked nostril. It is important not to get the stuff too hot and not to inhale too close to the jar, as a big intake can be painful. Anyway, it is very cheap, not risky, available everywhere, and easy to use. And it does seem to have an instantaneous effect, at least after the worst is over. It doesn't seem to do much until the blocked nose appears. I'll keep trying, and keep the board posted.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 5^th, 2004, 9:13pm

Davkel,

Interesting post. I hear all about pepper spray and aromas. I'll give your method a try. I guess it couldn't hurt and may save me from a shot of Imitrex or two.

The problem about your headaches is that most of us cannot sit still during an attack. I usually will run in place for what seems to be at least an hour. During that time a purposely bounce my head around to distract from the pain.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by CC on Jan 5^th, 2004, 11:53pm

If its any help, I use Tiger Balm on the temples at the onset of an attack, seems to ease the pain. I also apply it just before bed!! Worth a try!!! Best of luck to you!

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 6^th, 2004, 7:26am

Update. Had a hit at 5.00 am this morning, took 2 Ibuprofen, sniffed some menthol, drank hot tea (ordinary tea), and applied cold compresses. After half an hour, it had eased enough for me to go back to bed for an hour. It wasn't a biggie, probably about 6.

I know that the incidence of CH among 70 year olds is very low, which may be why this time, I am having very mild (by comparison with last time) hits. I have had two or three dancers, but they seem to be easing off surprisingly early in the scheme of things. It is probably why I can sit still - very still - except during the worst ones.

My advice - get old quickly!

Has anyone found an effect on emotions? When the attacks are coming off the boil, I get choked at the slightest thing, and cry a bit if I try to talk. Could it be that the hypothalamus is being disturbed? In fact, I am having trouble writing this.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 6^th, 2004, 7:29am

CC What is Tiger Balm please? And thanks for your good wishes.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by Paigelle on Jan 6^th, 2004, 9:01am

on 01/06/04 at 07:26:16, davkel wrote:

I am very emotional when I am in cycle. During the headache itself if someone even looks at me I will yell at them and then cry. Crying doesn't help the HA. But after it is over I feel very drained and sensitive to everything.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by floridian on Jan 6^th, 2004, 9:43am

Quote:

What is Tiger Balm please?

It is a liniment/ointment from Singapore(?), famous in the Orient and somewhat known in the west. Menthol and camphor or oil of cajeput (similar to eucalyptus) are the main ingredients. There are a few variations (red and white formulas). Mentholatum or Vicks Vapo-rub are similar products.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by CC on Jan 6^th, 2004, 10:46am

Floridian pretty much covered it all! Tiger balm is pretty potent, that's why i like it. menthol just doesn't seem strong enough!!

Best Wishes!!

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 6^th, 2004, 11:47am

Thanks Floridian, CC and Paigelle for your comments and help. I'll try the suggestions.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by jmorgan52 on Jan 6^th, 2004, 1:04pm

You can get Tiger Balm from Boots the chemists in UK. It a bit like Vicks but much stronger. You get white (milder) and red (stronger).

I also use it a lot at the start of a cycle before I start on the OTC. It works well for a few weeks, then OTC works for a few weeks, then have to start using Imigran Injections when all else fails. Am currently at that stage again for the past 2 weeks but using 1/3 "imitrex tip" method to keep in under control.

John

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 7^th, 2004, 1:25am

Further update
Had hit start at 3.38 am this morning, took 2 Ibuprofen, cold compress, menthol inhalation, and hot tea (Earl Grey, naturally). Aborted the hit after twenty minutes. May have been the stuff I did, maybe not, who knows. I'm just glad it happened.

Thanks for the info about Tiger Balm, guys.

Title: Ibu...what?
Post by rumplestiltskin on Jan 7^th, 2004, 1:53am

sorry

Quote:

Because aspirin works well for me normally,

I don't understand this sentence in reference to Clusterheadaches.

...i just...don't

den

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by jmorgan52 on Jan 7^th, 2004, 2:22am

Hi Den

For me at the very start of a cycle the HA's are quite mild. I can always abort them with stuff like aspirin for a few weeks. Then it stops working. I could take the whole bottle and it would not make a dent. For the next few months only imigran worgs.

I think Davkel is perhaps getting a mild start to the cycle. Sorry to say that the ibuprofin and menthol may well not work in a few weeks.

Sorry Davkel but I hope I'm wrong for your sake.

John

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by pubgirl on Jan 7^th, 2004, 4:05am

Davkel

Even if Aspirin does work (lucky you!) I'm sure you know that taking aspirin several times a day for weeks on end can cause serious stomach problems.

GP's here are getting much better clued up about diagnosis and treatments for CH, have you talked to yours about what you are taking for your headaches?

Also have you had a look at OUCh UK (www.clusterheadaches.org.uk) there is a mine of useful info there as well and a lot of people who are very knowledgeable and happy to help.

Wendy

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by ozzman on Jan 7^th, 2004, 10:58am

Davkel,

The intensity and your descriptions brought to mind another type of headache that sorta resembles CH :
Hypnic headaches

Hypnic headache, or headache during sleep, is a rare primary headache disorder occurring only in the senior population, with onset typically around the age of 60. Women are more likely to experience hypnic headache than men. To be called "hypnic headache," the headache must occur exclusively at night or during the day during napping. The attacks are very painful, often awakening the afflicted individual at the same time each night. The patient may be awakened during a dream by diffuse pain and nausea.

Hypnic headache is throbbing in quality and occurs 2-4 hours into nighttime sleep, although attacks after daytime napping are reported. The duration is usually short-lived, lasting from 5 to 60 minutes. The throbbing and pain occurs on both sides of the head.

Hypnic headaches typically respond to lithium carbonate at a dose of 300 mg to 600 mg, although caffeine and indomethacin are also helpful. Because hypnic headaches affect only individuals over the age of 50, it has been suggested that there are disturbances to the "biological clock" related to serotonin levels in the brain. The absence of autonomic features that are often seen in migraine or cluster headache distinguishes this illness from these conditions.

I'm not saying that this is what you have or that you do not have CH, but it is something that I found interesting and might be related.

BTW The article says that the attacks are very painful, but I have seen other descriptions that call it moderate, pain is relative after all.

Ozzy

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by pubgirl on Jan 7^th, 2004, 1:27pm

Ozzy

It is a good suggestion as hypnic headaches do mimic Ch very closely.

Quite a few doctors prescribe indomethacin early on anyway as it can give very good clues for diagnosis (i.e. it doesn't work for most Chers but it is VERY effective for CPH and Hypnics)

Davkel.

It really is well worth going to the OUCH UK site (Layman's Guide link) or here (headache links)and reading up on all the different headache syndromes and their symptoms. It would be VERY good news if there is any chance your HA's aren't CH as most of the others are much easier to treat.

Wendy

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 8^th, 2004, 10:52am

Hi everyone

Another update. I had four hits starting at 3.38 am yesterday morning, the last finishing at 6.47 am today. All lasted about 20 minutes, which may be the time for Ibuprofen to react. None was above about 7. The menthol cleared the noseblock each time,coinciding with the end of the hit. It's hard to say anything about cause and effect.

To clear up the aspirin comment. This cycle started mid September, at about 9.00 pm daily. I had just got new glasses, and put the headache down to eyestrain, which at that point, seemed to respond to aspirin. I know from bitter experience years ago that CH does not respond to any damn thing once it gets properly under weigh. Currently the pain is still relatively mild in CH terms, so Ibuprofen is apparently contributing to keeping the hits short, much to my surprise. To quote the leaflet "Ibuprofen belongs to a group of medicines called Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) which work by changing the body's response to pain, swelling and high temperature". They have minimal side effects. I can't take aspirin for long anyway, because of the stomach problems. If I can go through this cycle with no more pain than I have had up to now, I'll be well pleased, whatever may be the cause. I've never used Ibuprofen before, so it could be that I am responding to a new drug and it will eventually lose any effectiveness it may have now.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 8^th, 2004, 11:03am

Rumpelstiltskin

When I said aspirin works for me normally, I meant for normal things, like toothache or back ache, not CH. Everybody reacts differently, and my wife gets no benefit whatever from any painkiller, including morphine solution. She is just immune, poor cow. I took it because I didn't realise I was starting a cycle until the pains got worse and more regular. It probably didn't work , but just coincided with the natural end of the hit at that stage.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 8^th, 2004, 11:31am

Ozzy

Thanks for your suggestion about hypnic headache. I'd like to think that's what I have, but from experience of a major cycle before, I doubt it. My current pains are single sided, follow the trigeminal nerve, do not throb, occur at irregular intervals mostly whether awake or asleep, and until I started trying Ibuprofen and cold compresses etc., have lasted for more than an hour. In my earlier cycle, I had very severe hits at the rate of four a day, the next starting as the previous one was finishing more or less, and there were other effects like being in a fog unable to speak for most of the time. In 1982, no-one called it cluster headache, and it was some time after I came out of it that this name was applied. No meds were offered, or indeed any treatment. Interestingly, on the odd occasion I emerged from the fog, I had the sensation of someone gently pouring water on the top of my head, and trickling down my face, at which point, the fog miraculously cleared and I could, albeit briefly, drive my car and appear perfectly normal. What was that, I wonder. I also had good warning, by the left eye tearing and the cheek below beginning to twitch, which gave me about half an hour before the pain began in earnest. I was able to work during the later stages of the cycle, when I was down to about one hit a day, by using this knowledge to drive home as fast as possible. When the cycle finished, I had learned to love my pain, as they say, and I was almost sorry it was over. Is that crazy, or not.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by davkel on Jan 8^th, 2004, 1:06pm

Pubgirl

Thanks for your input. I've been to the other side (!) and found it very interesting and helpful, as indeed is this site. I shall show the prints to my GP and try and convince him to prescribe O2 in the 460 litre complete with regulator, as it seems Boots can now supply. What I am not clear about yet is how you get 100% out of a 28% mask, and whether it is safe to use at this concentration. I don't want to burst into flames.

Title: Re: Menthol and Ibuprofen
Post by pubgirl on Jan 8^th, 2004, 2:13pm

Davkel
You need to get exactly the right prescription as per the info on the site. Boots have an oxygen contract with BOC who make the portable CD cylinder. Mine came from them. You can borrow a mask and delivery set from OUCH UK if you want to try it out and see if it works for you (Curt the Gasman will sort you out and email you all the info you need for the prescription and for loaning equipment and answer any technical questions which I haven't a clue about)
The other alternative is to make sure your GP puts a non-rebreather delivery set on the prescription, or at least a delivery set , then you tape up the holes with gaffer tape or similar.
My hubby did this for me and it works fine.

There is a new mask being tried out on the site too, and those who have used it are raving about how good it is, you might want to look for the posts on that too as I can't remember the details.

r.e. the bursting into flames, my Gp was being really difficult about giving me the prescription at first as I am a smoker. Silly cow, does she think I'm going to smoke while I use it?
Seriously though, you need to use and store it safely away from any remote chance of a flame/spark/high heat getting near it.

And never use it with the elastic around your head in case you pass out or fall asleep and the oxygen runs out.

Hope this all helps

Wendy