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Title: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by fjleonard on Nov 16th, 2003, 10:04pm CH x 22 years....(was chronic for 3)....still refuse to accept I have to suffer these monsters for the rest of my life!! (as several doctors have tried to insist) I have researched this site (and Erowid) and found quite a bit of info on success of Psilocybin. Also saw where there was "some" info on the potential of actual research, back in 2000. I am curious if anything more has been done to persue the possible promise that some have apparently experienced with Psilocybin, and if so, can anyone point me to it?? I'd also like to hear about any "negative" experiences related to trying to use it with CH....whether it simply did not work, or worse??? Thanks in advance!! Joe :-/ |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Prense on Nov 16th, 2003, 10:06pm Your answers will come...but if you wanna read for yourself, check out www.clusterbusters.com. I personally have not gone this route. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 17th, 2003, 2:04am on 11/16/03 at 22:04:12, fjleonard wrote:
Can't point you to the official research...yet. Are you willing to travel to become part of the first clinical trial? PF www.clusterbusters.com |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by tommyD on Nov 17th, 2003, 7:56am Joe - For personal accounts of the psilocybin treatment, go to clusterbusters.com and check out the Message Board Archives: http://www.clusterbusters.com/2000.html http://www.clusterbusters.com/2001.html http://www.clusterbusters.com/2002.html Negative experiences? For a few folks it didn't seem to work. Worst part - they continued having cluster attacks. An "overdose," taking more than needed medicinally, can result in a psychedelic trip. This can be extremely pleasent or extremely unpleasent, or most likely, somewhere in between. It may be uncomfortable, but it won't hurt you and it's over in a few hours. Some folks will get a heavy CH attack or two in the first few days after trying the treatment. Usually, this is the Beasts' last gasp, and the attacks fade away before the end of the first week. All research so far has been unofficial and anecdotal, but as Pinkfoyd hints, there may be good news on the horizon. (Way to go Pink!) -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by fjleonard on Nov 17th, 2003, 8:58am Thanks all for the quick comments back. I have checked out CB.com and yes it does seem helpful, especially if I decide to go that route on my own. I was seeing a specialist about 14 yrs ago and we wrecked my immune system and my joints with Prednisone, and turned me into a wreck with Lithium. Changed my lifestyle, quit drinking / partying alltogether and went back to episodic. Since then I have just "toughed it out" on my own...6 to 12 week cycles once or twice a year, but am throwing in the towel waiting for them to "just go away". Just started seeing another specialist....refused both Lithium & Predn., but am now on Verapamil (don't know if it is doing anything) and Imitrex...(amazing but very expensive :o, and can't take enough for all CH even though I am using the tip I found on this site.) I guess since the indications of a potential "trial" or research were from old notes a few years back, I hoped that more progress had been made, but it does not appear to be the case. :-[ In reference to being able to travel for a trial....that would depend on a lot, but I would certainly be willing to consider (who wouldn't!!). Anyhow....thanks again for all the quick responses! Joe |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by _Binger on Nov 18th, 2003, 4:33pm I have to say, I have talked to at least 3 people personally that swear the psilocybin is doing what no other medication could----stoping the pain for months at a time. (Not to mention all the people on this sight.) As far as myself, I have never been able to stop the beast for that long. What I have been able to do is bring the intensity down to the point where if I'm having one, most of the time I'm not too distressed and half the time I don't even take anything more often then some mushrooms every 4-5 months. Now as far as hard evidence, it is out there, and I have researched it--- but at this point, I remember the info, but not where I got it. (truthfully, after years of intense pain, I started the mushroom therapy, and haven't really worried too much about it since then) I will tell you what I know------ Cluster Headaches have been associated with Serotonin imbalances, although Imitrex has been touted as a strong vascoconstricter and this must help, I have read compelling evidence showing it convinces your body to produce serotonin, and this is why it helps. I have read research showing that once psilocybin is injected into the bloodstream (I will try to find this info) that the difference can not be told between psilocybin and serotonin. Weird huh? All this would point to though, is that it would stop the pain, like Imitrex. It seems like what is happening though, is that the psilocybin (or psilocyn, the substance that psilocybin is turned into in the body) is convincing the body to produce more serotonin then it was before---but for months at a time. Like I said, many people don't feel any pain for 6 months at a time. I myself still feel shadows that occasionaly flair into something a little more, but I could care less, I always have gotten rid of it within a couple hours. The really bright part---I'm not eating Imitrex---which has side effects including heart attack, stroke, seizures, hell, they found Imitrex metabolites bind to the melanin in the eye and stays there for 15-23 days. That means if your taking it more often then that it's probably building up in your eye. I could go on for hours...(you've probably noticed) Psilocybin however, is not toxic until very large doses that realisticaly will never be part of a healthy C.H. regimen. There are things to watch out for, however, I would not recomend this for people not so sure of there mental stability, no real evidence, but I'm pretty sure psychadelics are not the best thing to through in there. Something to keep in mind, though is that a typical recreational dose would be around 3.5 grams of dried mushroom, where as I have found 2 grams to be the most I've ever needed. I highly recomend the herb skullcap as a tea if you are going to try this, it is a wonderful anti-anxiety herb I had heard as a good complement to the mushy's even if you're just eating em for the hell of it. (the tea even helps the C.H. sometimes) Remember---there are many people who really enjoy this, and most people who are into hallucinogens that I have talked to regard these mushy's and the amount taken to be not overlly strong and generally a positive experience. Remember, If your'e sure you have C.H. it's probably going to help, and going from that much pain to pain free is probably going to put you in a very good mood, no matter what your on. The mushy's last just about 6 hours. You wanted info, here's what I got---I hope it helps, but I can't promise anything------ Binger |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BUBBADOG on Nov 18th, 2003, 4:56pm WHAT IS A HERB SKULLCAP? I AM NEW TO HALLUCINOGENS NEVER HAVE TRIED THESE, KIND OF SCARED TO BUT EVERYDAY WHEN I HAVE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF PAIN I THINK WHAT THE HECK DO I HAVE TO LOOSE BUT PAIN. HOW DO I KNOW WHAT I AM GETTING IS NOT MIXED WITH OTHER STUFF? THANKS |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by _Binger on Nov 18th, 2003, 6:06pm Skullcap is a North American perenial plant that grows in Canada and northern and eastern America. It is perfectly legal and can be found in herbal stores. I know that there are a couple of health food stores in my area that carry it, I don't know about Penn. though. If you can't find it, try the internet, I know it is available, though I'm not sure where off hand It is known to be an antispasmodic, diuretic, and sedative. The dosage I have read was to pour 1 cup boiling water over 1 tsp dried skullcap (try a coffee filter if your'e having trouble getting the herb out) If you feel you need more I wouldn't worry about taking 4-5 cups, just make sure you drink a lot of water too and try to spread it out over time. Hey , the plants supposed to be good against rabies too! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by floridian on Nov 19th, 2003, 11:28am Skullcap has compounds that affect both the serotonin receptors, and the GABA receptors. It is traditionally used mostly used for "headaches" (not specific on type) and as a sedative because the GABA effects are pronounced - don't mix it with any of the benzodiazepine drugs (valium, xanax, etc). Skullcap also reduces some of the inflammitory interleukins - this may be beneficial, although the specific interleukins that it supresses don't seem to closely match up the interleukins that are elevated in CH. Hasn't been used for rabies in quite a while, but still has the nick-name "mad-dog skullcap" in some places. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by tommyD on Nov 19th, 2003, 3:49pm Quote:
While formal research is still in the future, the informal research goes on. There is some indication that mushrooms can be used as an abortive by placing a small piece of 'shroom under the tongue and sucking on it like mad at the first sign of an attack. The ClusterBusters call it the SPUT (small piece under tongue) technique. The psychoactive effects are minimal. There are also signs that repeated use this way can build to a preventative effect. But the jury's still out on this until we hear from more SPUTniks. There are more reports of success among chronics using shrooms, and finding ways to make it work for them. Some find they need to dose every week or two for months, but can gradually space the doses farther and farther apart. But we've also had reports of chronics finding extended relief after the long treatment...one ex-chronic recently passed the two-year mark, if I recall, pain free and med free. And it is becoming clearer that larger doses of psilocybin, beyond a mild recreational dose, do not improve efficacy for CH, and may even be counter-productive. Progress on identifying medications that interfere with hallucinogen treatment is slow, but it does seem sumatriptan does interfere for many...the question now is how much time one should wait between Imitrex and psilocybin, and whether Imitrex taken after shrooms can interfere with the treatment (it seems like it might). The more reports we hear from people who try psilocybin, the more we learn...so please, anyone who tries it, please let us know how it goes, however it goes - reports of failures or problems are more important and valuable than reports of success. While formal research is needed to prove this works, informal research will help researchers set protocols for formal trials. And of course, the info is invaluable for clusterheads who want relief without waiting for approval by the authorities. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:21pm on 11/19/03 at 15:49:39, tommyD wrote:
Where do I sign up to be a Guinnea Pig? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 21st, 2003, 1:43pm I am new to the forum.I am having 4to5 clusters a day.I am going to give Psilocybin a try.All other meds are making me very sick and I can't take much more pain.Wish me luck I will post back! Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 21st, 2003, 3:14pm on 11/21/03 at 13:43:46, BT wrote:
I'm envious! Good luck |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 21st, 2003, 5:17pm Took a dose at 3:45pm to try and avoid my 5:00pm beast, we will see.This is a first! Keeping fingers crossed. BT 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 21st, 2003, 9:38pm It has beaten the beast.I am amazed it is 8:30pm and no meds but Psilocybin.I can feel the beast trying to come through,but it fades to nothing in seconds. I am worried about my 11:00pm beast this has been the worst,and I can feel the effects of the Psilocybin getting less intense. From back in the day I know the theory the door is closed and there is no sense in more, but I am going to waste some then,in fear. Peace Chuck Brown ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 21st, 2003, 10:45pm BT, I think you should wait and see what happens. You don't want to overdo it. We think this can possibly be counter productive. They are working and you will be amazed that they continue to work long after the effects have worn off. You may have some shadows and even some hits but most likely not very intense. What you described is pretty typical and is a very good sign you will have continued success. Wait and dose again in 4-5 days. And continue until you don't need to anymore. Great news and I wish you continued success. Flounder |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:20am Flounder you are correct.After the effects of the Psilocybin wore off there was no gain in more shrooms,the door was closed. At 1:15am the beast returned full scale.This morning same thing the 8:30 am beast hit.Back on Imitrex what a drag. Now I did have 12+hours with no meds so Psilocybin and the beast do not get along,which is what I am going to hope for. You think I have to wait 4 days to redose?I hope not. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 22nd, 2003, 10:59am That sucks BT :( I was thinking about you last night when I got hit. I was hoping it had worked for you. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree too [smiley=huh.gif] Still looking for "the product" though. Hang in there! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by JDH on Nov 22nd, 2003, 12:28pm BT, Don't give up yet! From what I've read you really should wait at least 5 days between dosing. The more time to detox you've had the better the results s/b. My cycles always start in the fall and this year I dosed for the first time in early Oct before it started and again about 5 weeks later and guess who hasn't shown up yet! I've had to use the o2 a few times for shadows and even had a couple of wakeup calls but it hasn't broken through with anything more than about a k3 and that's been a good thing to say the least. ;) This is from www.clusterbusters.com pertaining to time between dosing: One of the first things that a molecule of psilocin (psilocybin is converted into psilocin as soon as it enters the bloodstream. It is actually psilocin that produces the effect, not psilocybin) will do when it nestles snuggly into its chosen synaptic cleft is to trigger a reaction in the receptor site that "shuts the door" behind it. Not only does the door shut on the sites that contain psilocin molecules already, but on all other sites anywhere in the brain that are capable of accepting similar molecules. This process is not instantaneous, but it does take place fairly rapidly... maybe over twenty minutes or half an hour or so. This is why dosing with mushrooms or LSD is an "all or nothing" thing. With alcohol or marijuana, if you think you are not yet where you want to be, you can have another beer or another joint, and another and another. But psilocybin and LSD take time to produce their full effect... sometimes as much as an hour or even longer from the time you take them till the time they start to work. By the time you discover that you have underdosed, it is too late to do anything about it. You will have to wait until next time around to adjust the dose. If you take some more immediately, it is a complete waste of medicine, since by the time the new batch of molecules make it to your brain, all the doors are firmly shut. These doors remain shut until all the molecules of psilocin or LSD have broken down (around 12 to 20 hours) and then the doors gradually start to re-open. This is why veteran "acidheads" back in the 1960s would only dose once a week or so. Some individuals can dose with only a three day break, others need as much as week. A good compromise for clusterheads is about five days. This door-shutting mechanism precludes the use of any other hallucinogen for that given period of time. That is to say, if you take some mushrooms Friday night, then take some LSD on Saturday night, the LSD will have no effect at all. Methysergide (Sansert) and other ergot compounds such as ergotamine and di-hydro ergotamine (DHE) will also shut the door. Due to the marked similarity between the various triptans (Imitrex, Amerge, etc.) and psilocybin, it is likely that they will also shut the door for at least as long as they remain in the body, and probably for some period of time after that. Bottom line... it is essential to wait 4 or 5 days between mushroom doses, and to avoid all other known "blocking" medications during that time as well. good luck, Jim |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 22nd, 2003, 2:31pm My 12:00 noon beast was a no show .8)So far only one hit this morning. My scalp has this tight feeling,maybe something is still at work. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 22nd, 2003, 3:27pm Good to hear. You have to give it a chance. It’s shaken up your cycle. I usually get some strange feeling shadows and some small hits but they are bearable. It’s different each time. Then I get several pf days. I dose again after the waiting period. It usually takes three or four doses to break my cycle completely, however everyone is different. What size dose did you take? Try not to take any meds. Trex interferes with the effectiveness of this treatment. Do you use O2? Some have reported that the shrooms seem to make the O2 work even better. Good luck and (((((((((Good Vibes))))))))) to you Flounder |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 22nd, 2003, 5:35pm Flounder you are giving me hope.Everything you have discribed is very close to what is happening to me. I don't have 02.I am going to bail on all meds except a little Advil. I don't drink at all,I haven't for years.I was a recreational drug user for many years,but with responsibilty and growing older it had to end.That was also many years ago. My wife who found this forum said, hey check this out Psilocybin can get rid of cluster headaches.My mother in law was an avid shroom farmer for many years so the wife was hip. Anyway the dose I took was between 4 & 5 grams of dried standard cubes.That put me to a level 2 at best.I may up the dose of these Tuesday or might try 3.5, I don't know yet. The way this looks I will be calling in the Mother in law to get a farm of my own going,so I can get more accurate with the dose. I will keep this updated for the other people suffering. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 22nd, 2003, 9:09pm Okay, I guess its my turn. A buddy of mine was able to find the goodies for me and I'll be taking them in a few minutes. I've been shadowing all day and would normally expect a rough night when that happens. I've had no meds for several days, so there shouldn't be anything in my system to interfere. Well, down the hatch! Wish me luck. I'll post my results in the morning. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 22nd, 2003, 9:37pm Glad to hear you found what you needed Cluster-Head. Have a good night.!!! ;;D Flounder |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Mastifflvr28 on Nov 23rd, 2003, 3:21pm Please BT and Cluster_Head keep us updating on how it is going. I congratulate both of you. BT, the rule of thumb is that you will actually get HARDER from 24 to 48 hours after dosing, THEN the shrooms will actually tweak your cycle for a long period of time after that. Think of them more of a preventative then an actual abortive med. Take care and I wish you guys the BEST of luck!!!!!! Mast |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 23rd, 2003, 4:25pm Mastifflvr28 you are correct I am getting blasted the last 48hrs.K8's over and over.I am not sure I have the balls to dose again tomorrow and go through this again. Do you think my second dose will be more productive in breaking the cycle. It is great to be pf while the shrooms are working but the after effects are a bitch. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 23rd, 2003, 5:12pm I'm sorry you're having a tough time of it BT :( I feel for you bud. Well, I took 3.5 grams of cracker-dry product last night and all I can say is WOW :o I think I must have been approaching a recreational dose, because I experienced a little more than "the giggles". So I spun a couple Pink Floyd CD's and did a little star gazing. The effects lasted approximately 5 hours, and the worst of the whole experience was the taste. Fell into bed at about 2:00 a.m. and made friends with some neon butterflies in my mind's eye. Very 8) I woke up at about 9:00 a.m with little more than a tension headache. Quickly killed it with O2 then slept another 4 hours awaking refreshed and pain-free! All I can say is UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! Its hard to explain, but my mind feels clearer than it has since this cycle started. I called my buddy and put the order in for more. The shrooms are definitely something I intend to have on hand for next time. Whoever put the www.clusterbusters.com together is a genious. My Neuro could take a few lessons. Thanks to all! I'll keep you posted. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 23rd, 2003, 6:44pm Cluster glad to hear your success.I am going to have to hit some trex tonite can't make it without it, no f*%kin way. If I thought the door was open enough to take more shrooms I would right now but it has only been 2 days,I may get dosed tommorow. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 23rd, 2003, 6:47pm Kick Ass Clusterhead! 3.5 grams is a recreational dose. I usually do 1.5 gms and get pretty looped on that. Different strains have different potencies though. There are a lot of people who have success with 1/2 gm doses. Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones that a single dose knocks out your cycle but I would count on dosing again. Great news though. Keep us informed. BT, Sorry to hear your getting hit I hope that clears up, I think it will. I don't get hit worse after dosing but like Mast said, some report getting hit harder before things improve a great deal. Don't give up after just one dose. I would strongly recommend getting a scrip for O2 to help you through. Hang in there Bro. Flounder |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 23rd, 2003, 7:05pm Flounder are you sure if I made a tea batch right now that it would have no effect it has been 48hrs since my last dose. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by _Binger on Nov 23rd, 2003, 7:37pm Sorry you are having such a rough time, but I think I have some good news. Although individuals very greatly , I would be very surprised if another dose wouldn't work. When I was in my much younger dead head and hallucinogen days I would eat mushy's almost every day for a week (don't remember weight) but I'm pretty sure they almost always worked, if they didn't---all I had to do was up the dosage just a little and I was booming. By the way, 3.5 grams is what I remember people considiring as a recreational dose, although I remember people doing up to 7-8 grams. For my cluster's, the only times I have done more than 2 grams for a headache I ended up with another headache of the same intensity the next day. There have been times (or I guess I should say time, it was only once) where 2 grams was getting rid of the pain, but the next day it was back. I ended up eating 2 grams every day for what I think was 4 days (memory's a little foggy, hmmm.....) All I know is it worked every time, and if I was building up tolerance and they weren't working as well, and I had to eat more on the later days it wasn't by much. After this I was not pain free for extended time, but pain reduced to the point I really didn't care to much. Since this time, and most before, I did not have any signifigant pain the day after, but usually have at least a shadow. I hope this helps, and sometimes it helps to remember that there's a whole lot of people who consider this very enjoyable, sometimes even spiritual. I know I can't help myself from feeling this when I take even my slight dose, and it sure does help me to remember I used to eat these for the hell of it when I was a kid. Wow does this site get me rambling... |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 23rd, 2003, 7:40pm on 11/23/03 at 19:05:59, BT wrote:
I've been known to "flounder" once in a while so I'll take this opportunity to give you my opinion. PLEASE consider a dose of psilocybin now rather than any imitrex, if you are at the point you must do one or the other. The imitrex at this point may put you back to square one or slow down the improvement. 48 hours isn't the ideal but you should have enough receptors open to do some good with the psilocybin. There is some evidence that "small" multiple doses, replacing the need for imitrex will get you through. The most important thing is to try and increase the time between doses if you're using multiple doses. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 23rd, 2003, 9:01pm Receptors were open back listening to the blues pf.Not as intense as Friday but pf. Workin on the beast. BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 23rd, 2003, 9:05pm BT, I agree with Pinkfloyd. Do the shrooms instead of the Trex. I've done another dose before the recommended waiting period and still felt the effects. Good Luck! Flounder |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Mastifflvr28 on Nov 23rd, 2003, 9:26pm Listen to Pink [smiley=bow.gif] He knows of which he speaks. And another, GOOD LUCK! Mast |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 24th, 2003, 9:44am Day two and still relatively pain free. Just a very short-lived Kip-6 yesterday afternoon. It was odd in that I did not have any shadowing at all. It just hit out of the blue. The 02 killed it fairly quickly, however. Slept well last night and so far, no shadows or hits this morning. Man I feel energized! Time to get some overtime in at the office to make up for all the "foggy" days over the last two months. I think this cycle is definitely on the way out. Thank God! I was begining to think I was going chronic. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 24th, 2003, 11:46am Can I join in at this "shroom-fest" ??? :P I tried to read all I could find about the mushies this day on internet. Got some info from PinkFloyd and read clusterbusters too. Jos has been on heavy doses of homeopathics since Saterdayevening, they are definately working: it got him down from 8xstraight 10's to none in 31 hours, and after that only two during the night and none this day ... sounds great, BUT we know the drill with homeopathics by now: it will almost surely come back gradually. So perhaps this IS a good time to try mushrooms because he's lower on imitrex then he's ever gonna get, he needed no shots today. I talked to him about it, he is a bit doubtfull, but he read all the stuff you guys wrote here and made up his mind and said "ok, let's try them". We're going to do it right, with a nice backrub, some nice music, and make it a cosy fest. The only thing we're worried about is how much to take of this psilocybe cubensis? Here's talk about 2,5 - 3 grams, is that normal? Would it hurt to start on a really low dose? Or is that no use? I'm a bit "shivery" about this. I thought I should take only 1/4 of 1 gram, or is that too little? I am not in for a flipping husband in the room, really !!!! Next question: I should boil water, take it off the stove, throw the mushies in and THEN? I don't understand the English terms, should I just have them soak in this water with the lid on, is that it???? Then after he's been taking them, and an attack follows, I understand he should not be taking imitrex. I'm not sure if he can make that, but we surely will try. I don't think I could combine the mushies with more homeopathics AFTER the mushies! So it would be back on the trex then if we must. So searched the internet for mushrooms and found them only three blocks down the road, I never did any drugs, it 's a bit weird to find them exactly opposite the house of an old acquaintance of mine hee hee :-[ :-[ :-[. (Picture me stammering "Ehmmmm :-[ nooowwww, I'm not doing drugs you see my hubby is very ill" and them going "WELL YEAH! DUH-HUH". Guess what shop was CLOSED [smiley=sgrin.gif]. If someone could take away our last bit of doubt , please do. I did read all the stuff about it, but sometimes I get a bit in doubt because of the English (I'm dutch you know). Thanks in advance, folks. If we feel that we sorted it all out we'll try them TOMORROW!!!! Hannah |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 24th, 2003, 12:23pm Man I an getting hit bad.I am going to a doctor Tuesday for some 02 and try and get off the trex completely by Wensday and try some tea. This is a bitch. BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 24th, 2003, 12:33pm Hannah: Even though I apparently took more than I was supposed to, at no point was I out of control. It was actually somewhat pleasant. Next time I dose, if that becomes necessary, I won't take as much. I do know this for certain: The shrooms have so far been able to do for me what no other medication has. I've only had one headache in over 36 hours. ;;D So far, I'm sold! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 24th, 2003, 12:37pm on 11/24/03 at 12:23:57, BT wrote:
That sucks bigtime BT :( When I was taking Imitrex, I was suffering huge rebound headaches. Get off of that stuff. Definitely get some O2. My doc didn't want to give it to me at first, but I didn't take no for an answer. Make sure you assert yourself if they give you problems. Good luck! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 24th, 2003, 12:56pm Hi BT, Flash the Lone Ranger here. I am familiar with what you are experiencing. If I leave dosing to late then the same thing happens to me. I find it usually lasts about 4 days of almost non-stop #10 headaches, usually about 3 hours long each, and running back to back with little respite in between. Then it stops. Altogether. Experienced this on 3 occasions, and I've been using this treatment for over a decade now. So hang in. The good news is that your HAs have reacted to the shrooms. This indicates that you are likely to have sucess with shrooms as a preventative once you become PF. Shrooms can break the cycle. They are probably the most effective treatment for breaking the cycle, but that's nothing compared with how well they work as a preventative. I know that right now your life must feel like hell, but if things suddenly clear up in the next 24 hours it will have been worth it. Given the choice between a 4 weeks episode and a 4 day episode, albeit a completely hellish one - I'd take the 4 days every time. What I have found is as follows: Preventative 6 monthly dose taken between scheduled episodes - virtually no CH symptoms at all. Preventative annual dose taken between scheduled episodes - some CH symptoms, occasional shadows, some mild attacks, occasional isolated full blown attack for no reason, and phantom episode. Abortive dose taken at earliest onset of episode - usually kills episode outright. Abortive dose taken near onset of episode - usually kills episode but may take up to 48 hours for HAs to subside. Episode may occasionally reoccur within a few days/weeks. Second dose always effective. Abortive dose taken after episode well established - usually suffer 3-5 days of total fuckin hell followed by sudden and dramatic remission. Never taken a followup dose as remission have always held. FYI I usually dose the equivalent of 0.5g - 1g dried. So size of dose seems to be of little importance. We have anecdotal evidence that taken big doses can be counter productive. Please note that I have never mixed with any med other than O2. Do not mix with trex, pred, or any ergot compound! Shrooms have ALWAYS worked for me without fail. Good luck! Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 24th, 2003, 1:12pm Hannah, Start off with a low dose 0.5g - 1g. This stuff is very potent and he will notice a definate but mild effect. It is important to start small and increase very gradually. I see no need to every go beyond 1g. You absolutely must avoid trex if you intend to start this treatment otherwise I guarantee that it will fail. I would advise being clear of trex for 5 days beforehand, and then staying completely off it afterwards. It may taken several doses to break the cycle. In the event dose a maximum of once every 5 days with the same low dose. If you get more than 5 days PF then gradually increase the time between doses. It is practical to maintain long term dosing at this low level. REPEAT you must wait min 5 days between doses. Taking bigger doses or more frequent doses is only likely to upset things and prolong the episode. In fact *ATTENTION ALL CLUSTER BUSTERS* think of it like trying to balancing some scales. You add a tiny little weight, the scales will bounce around for a bit so you wait for them to resettle. If once the scales are settled down they still aren't balanced then you add a little extra weight. Unfortunately if you add too much weight then you can't take it back, you just have to wait for it to dissolve and this takes a long time. So the secret is to add a little and wait for the scales to settle down. Eventually you'll find the point of balance. This is how dosing with shrooms works. Take too much too often and you overdo it, the balance swings too far the other way and the result is HAs. Hope this helps. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 24th, 2003, 1:58pm Hi Flash, I understand what you're saying about the dosing, thanks for the info. I think we would go for the lowest dose then. BUT!!! A BIG "but", it sounds so easy to stay of the imitrex, but what if that's just NOT possible? In this cycle Jos is really becoming scared to just "let it happen". Picture us in our house, I'm not half his weight (I'm only a little babe, you know :-/), he's a sturdy guy! If he's going through a full-blast attack: * O2 does absolutely NOT work * When it is really bad, sometimes he will turn against me or do something I cannot prevent (like well yeah, kill himself or run outside). * In this cycle we have noticed that the pressure on the brain gets so high (I assume it's that) that he really does not know what he's saying, the world doesn't make sense anymore. He's very "sain in the head" but when he's getting weird like during attack he's talking to me about that there are surgeons cracking his skull and he's telling me I need to go find a lightbulb [smiley=bulb.gif] because he needs it to stick it in his nose ( [smiley=eek5.gif]. I'm not kidding here. I fear at such moments that something will break from the pressure in his head, his eye looks as if it's popping out and he's loosing it alltogether. It looks like a sort of delirium. Afterwards he doesn't remember a thing. He didn't have this before, this is the first cycle he's having this and it's only in the really bad attacks. Makes us scared. What if he just has to take the trex to avoid worse? I mean at some points when he's just LOST IT ALL, I myself am ready to stick this needle in his leg, because stuff is getting out of hand then. If he just can't handle it otherwise, perhaps no mushrooms for us then? Then I would try the melatonine. BUT (another BUT), I found out in Holland we can only buy 0,1 gram pills, the 3 gram pills are OFF THE MARKET [smiley=confused.gif]. I've called this firm: YES they know it works for clusterpatients and no they can't sell 'em anymore, its illegal [smiley=bloos.gif] to buy those. I can buy a kilo of mushrooms but I CANNOT buy a 3mg melatonine pill. Strange country, Holland. Anyway, we're still going reasonably well om the homeo med's, or perhaps even pretty darn well, no attacks today, only two last night. He's having heavy shadows though, so we're expecting attacks this coming night for sure, I will TRY to avoid those by giving him a higher potency of the same homeopathic stuff, perhaps that will kill it if only for tonight. Actually I'm giving him way too much, I feel like I'm spraying water over an earthquake!!! But it's holding for now, and that's the main thing. He's had a good day. This is the 7th time I managed to break through the cycle with homepathics, so this stuff works for sure, but if I would have to choose now between the mushies and homeo's, I'd SURELY go for the mushies!!! Much more chance it will work and last. homeopathics costs WAY too much time to find something that actually works, and you have to watch a person from minute to minute to observe what it does, and then change the dose or remedy or stop or double or ... or ... or.... Taking mushies is a lot easier, faster and cheaper too, and the results sound great! But, bloody interesting though, homeoathics, I want to learn more and more about this (and ofcourse, the mushies too). BT I hope you can hang in there and get through this!!! GOOD LUCK YOU!!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 24th, 2003, 5:01pm This is a good question about the trex.I don't think anybody can just sit there for days detoxing with 6 k9-k10 CH's a day and not take the trex.You would go mental. The 02 did jack shit for me in the past but I am willing to give it a go. The trex issue may be why I will not be successfull with the shrooms, I don't know. I have to run a bussiness I don't have 4days to k9 it up! I am hoping like hell the shrooms help but so far I am not winning. [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 24th, 2003, 5:09pm on 11/24/03 at 17:01:33, BT wrote:
I used to think the O2 didn't work for me either. It turned out that I wasn't using it properly. A few years ago I borrowed the O2 tank from the office medical kit and tried using it, but it didn't do anything so I gave up. I didn't realize that it wasn't enough. This this time around I was able to get a prescription. The Dr. recommends 6LPM, but I get much better results from 10LPM. The regulator on my tanks only go to 8 and I can tell a big difference between that and the 10 LPM my concentrator produces. How much are you taking? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 24th, 2003, 6:57pm Notes: 1.If 02 hasn't worked for you, and you haven't tried it between 8-12 litres, you may not have tried a high enough setting, as was stated. But for some folks, it just doesn't work. I wouldn't give up on it though without trying 10 or 12 litres. 2. If 02 hasn't worked, it may very well work AFTER shrooms. Many people report that the 02 works much better and faster after a psilocybin treatment. 3. After the initial or secondary psilocybin treatments, some attacks may appear to be heading for an hour long #10 but will end much sooner than your regular attacks. 4. I would certainly suggest using the smaller dose, especially the first ime around. .5g to 1g Maybe 1.5 if you know you aren't particularly sensitive to imitrex or any of the ergots. If 2mg of sansert used to make you loopy.....stay at the .5 - 1g range. 5. As Flash stated, 3 or 4 gms usually has more reports of increased activity for a few days following the treatment. 6. Going into this with the mindset that it will be not only a pleasant experience but will also make your life much better in a short period of time.....will help immensely in becoming a self-fulfilling experience. The back-rub sounds like something we NEED to add to the treatment plan!!!!! ;;D 7. Don't enter this expecting to need the imitrex. Let's not self-fulfill the wrong fantasy. best of luck...everyone! PF 8. If you're worried about what might |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 24th, 2003, 8:47pm on 11/24/03 at 18:57:15, Pinkfloyd wrote:
This sort of has me worried, as I exceeded the recommended dosage and I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. I only did so because I was told by the person I got them from that they were not very good (seemed pretty good to me though). So far so good, I've so far been pain free all day. Not even so much as a shadow. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Not4Hire on Nov 24th, 2003, 11:01pm on 11/24/03 at 13:58:37, HannahFroukje wrote:
....sorry to quote all you said above, Hannah..... and the answers you have received are *spot ON*..... give the o2 a CHANCE.... and talk/ Personal Message/ call ....AVE.... she is one of *US*.... and she speaks Dutch.... (i think....) ..i hope I'm not putting you on the SPOT, annmarie/*ave*.... but you ARE close .... and i know your ARE commited to this therapy.... it's the ONLY thing that worked for ME--to break a hellish cycle...TRY IT, DO IT RIGHT.....and GOOD LUCK! best regards, Steve(N4H) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 25th, 2003, 1:39am Thanks so much PinkFloyd for answering! Also thanks to the others who chipped in, it's really so wonderful to have a place where you can get for advice and help. I already tried a couple of tips I found here and found some relief, so that's worth a million! Okay, the blue cheese and vinnegar didn't work out but hey, who cares, we just keep trying! I'm glad my partner is WILLING to try stuff, gives us the feeling we're working on something. Pink, I'm not sure what you mean ... should I contact someone? Mmmmm I'll just wait a bit and see what happens. Reaction to PinkFloyd's 1. We started O2 on 6 liters, and ended up at 11 l/min, that worked on mild attacks, but if it's BAD it doesn't help, it only seems to make it worse, he gets stitches of pain from it (like he says) 2. Worth trying 02 after mushrooms. Thanks. 3. The change of length is worth knowing. Thanks too! 4. Yep, we talked about it again and he's going for the 0,5 grams. Better take a bit longer and do it right eh? If no effect we will repeat it after 5 days and take 1 grams and so on and so on. He never had sansert by theway. * The back-rub: :P :P :P. I would definately tell your partners the back rub is an essential to the mushroom experience ... hee hee. During attack it actually seems to HELP to rub the upper part of the spine, the spine itsself and paravertebral. Could be because there are some pressure points there that you will cover like that, dunno. But you will have to rub them HARD, so that the skin gets warm. Well, .... different for everybody it seems. OH BY THE WAY: we're still on homeopathics, still not sure if we can get it down now with that, could still be but he had two attack tonight, tried the ice-water on him hoping on a non-imitrex one. It was a bit hard to persuade him to drink a good gulp, but it really DID help!!! Couldn't avoid the imitrex though , will try next time or during day (milder attacks). For the rest we haven't been doing bad, it's a big difference compared with FRIDAY/SATURDAY when it was going BANG-BANG-BANG ... one after the other, horrific. Now we can at least handle it, with only two during the night. (7) You are right that it IS a problem someone expects the use of imitrex, will make you weak. I will try to inform him about all your tips as best I can (he's working on his English :)). Thanks man! BT best of luck. I'm thinking of you and just HOPING you will get this BEATEN!!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 25th, 2003, 10:03am BT most people have no problem detoxing because they are taking the shrooms prior to their episode and aren't on any drugs at the time. The bottom line is that the shrooms won't work if you fail to detox, or take the Imitrex soon afterwards. The question is really whether you want this cycle to break or are prepared to go on scheduling your life around it. I too am self employed and have been for 10 years. I run 2 businesses and work 70 hours each week. unfortunately CH doesn't give a shit about any of that. If it wasn't for the shrooms then I probably wouldn't be in business at all. In all honesty detoxing isn't as bad as it sounds. Most people find they get less frequent and less painful headaches when they avoid all meds. Most meds including Imitrex have some rebound factor and aggrivate your system in the medium to long term. Meds are for wimps, shrooms are for those that don't want to have CH. Don't take this the wrong way, it just the bottom line. The alternative is to ride out this episode and take shrooms between this episode and the next one in order to skip the next one altogether. One way to think about detoxing from Imitrex is that if you GP had you on a course of Sansert or Ergotamine then you'd have to detox from that in order to start the trex and vice versa. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 25th, 2003, 2:39pm 10LPM tank of 02 on it's way.I am going to suck the shit up like crazy.My head is banging like crazy and I am not going to take the trex. My last effective dose of shrooms was Friday.I did take some on Sunday with very little effect.Did my sunday dose mess with the receptor deal again or am I 4 days from last effective dose. I am going to try the tea.Pinks recipe. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 25th, 2003, 3:23pm on 11/25/03 at 10:03:58, Flash wrote:
Ehm [smiley=huh.gif] I'm sure you mean well Flash, but (don't take this the wrong way) on this point I don't really agree. Wouldn't exactly call my hubby a whimp, considering in the past he didn't even bother to go to the doc with broken ribs. Just an example. In our case: it can get really REALLY unsafe without Imitrex, and if nothing else helps, we hardly have a choice (I'm not saying we won't try very seriously, believe me we will!). Well, an update here, today Jos got another attack so it looks like the homeopathics have "done their job" and it will be no use to give the same again. So there wouldn't be a better time to take the mushrooms then today, he's been almost clean of the trex for a few days, can only get worse from now on. So I hurried to the store, what a surprise, clean young man inside looking really healthy [smiley=laugh.gif], knew ALL there was to know about mushrooms, I asked my "brand", and he said "oh yes ma'am, sure we've got that" and he pulled it out, neatly sealed neatly wrapped stuff with even an expiring date on it ;;D ;;D ;;D !!! Spent some time talking to him, exchanging thoughts, explained what it was for, and at the end of our conversation he shoved the little box my way and said I could have them cheaper, since it was for a good cause, and he would like to know what happened so please call back and tell how it went. Nice man eh??? So went back home with all the instructions neatly written down, made the tea, made the bedroom really nice: warm, nice music, candles ... hey if we're going on a trip we might as well have a good one! Jos didn't mind at all to have a backrub of a good 1,5 hours :), was kinda cosy, we talked and overall had a real good time, should do that more often :). I used a really low dose in the tea (took the advice from before), 0,5 grams dried (recalculated, mine were fresh, the guy had calculated how much I should take of the fresh and said I should take even a little less because fresh ones are a bit stronger. Jos didn't notice a thing, not even giggly, just nothing. When it was about two hours later, he felt one coming, so we went downstairs and I warned him he should try and sit it out. He tried oxygen, didn't help. He tried the peppermint oil and the other oils for the first time but didn't help, made his nose stitch. Cold water with icecubes worked best. I kept warning him it would probably not take long, shorter then otherwise, kept repeating that, hoping I would be right, and yes after 20 minutes already (instead of at least 45, most of the times 1,5 hours per attack) it suddenly died down and he didn't even have a lot of aftereffects like a burning nose and eye. This was perhaps a 6 or 7 instead of his usual 9 or 10 and he got through it allright. No trex. I thought the first attacks after would be heavier? Hard to say on such a mild dose perhaps. I hope this is positive, I really hope so!!! But I'm fearing for tonight when we have to try and sit them out. To early to say I guess if it will work for us .... the only odd thing he noticed was then he was tearing from both eyes instead of one. EDIT: and hardly two hours later (not his usual three hours), the next one hit him right between the eye. Not a full-blown one, perhaps an 8-9, took over an hour. Very hard on him. No trex but I had to talk like crazy to keep him from it. Oh boy, I 'm scared. I'm going to sleep with my fingers and toes crossed ::). |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Roxy on Nov 25th, 2003, 6:54pm Hannah, I really hope your husband can make it without the trex. From what you just posted, it does sound like the shrooms are messing with his head.....this is a good thing. He might get hit harder for a day or two, but just have him dose again in five days. Hope the shrooms do their thing for him, they have taken me from 8-10 hits a day, down to one or two. Still working on the totally PF..... :) Good luck, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 25th, 2003, 9:49pm 02 and BT do not get along AT ALL.Holy shit it magnified a k10 if you can imagine that.My wife was freakin. I am going to leave this alone till Saturday and plug along with trex.It at least stops the pain dead in it's tracks. I think I am past midway of the cycle.What Psilocybin is in my system can do whatever dance it is going to do,but I see no reason to make matters worse by putting up with intense pain. I talked with my nuro today and told him about the Psilocybin.I explained to him that it is counter productive to mix the trex with Psilocybin and his response was when we figure out first what causes CH at that point maybe you can make that assumption.At this point everybody reacts in a different way when it comes to CH's and that is what the problem is with nailing the beast. Peace BT 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 25th, 2003, 11:07pm Hi all EWWWHHH, this is tough. Can someone please respond. Read above story. Gave mushrooms. Low dose. First attack very mild. Second attack oddly after two hours already , very difficult but not a 10. NOT BEEN USING TREX. This is the problem: the last one is NOT really going away for him but leaving him in constant pain now. It's started early last evening and it's 05.00 in the morning now so hours and hours later. He hasn't been able to sleep, me neither, he feels all his "clusterspots" and generally just has a lot of pain, stitches, electric stuff going through his head. And it's not getting better but slowly getting worse. He's getting worried and that's not helping. Oxygen doesn't help convinced him to try it but made it worse. Oh buggers, I don't wanna complain but I'm having a tough time myself too. Because now ofcourse they are MY mushrooms and I got them for him ... buggers buggers buggers (he chose himself he would take them but it was my idea you know ....) . Anyone else had this problem and got through it? HOW LONG DID IT TAKE? Is this normal????? I tried telling him that it's a good sign. I tried telling him he's obviously responding and that he will have to wait this one out. Told him too that he wasn't really clean of the trex before we tried it. But see he's been through 7 weeks of CH now, his head is numb, his skull is cracked from 7 weeks of pains, he is having trouble to think and is only reacting like "WELL YEAH, RIGHT [smiley=bash.gif] [smiley=bash.gif] [smiley=bash.gif] AND WHAT ABOUT THE PAIN? Will it go away or will it leave me for three weeks with a splitting constant headache?" I'm going to try and sleep, but it's 05.30 now: fat chance with a groaning husband on the couch (bed is a no-no now). If it doesn't clear up perhaps I'll give him some Arnica, perhaps that will help just against the pain a bit. EDIT: no replies yet, but wanted to update this. After aspirine didnt help and there was still a LOT of complaining, headrubbing and cursing going on here, gave him a BIG BIG dose of pure Arnica to force this exorcism to some good end. That helped. The beast finally was persuaded to go to sleep and has been sleeping since (jos too ;;D). Dont know if the big dose of Arnica will have good effect on the long term, but we'll be happy to guinea pig to that ! Had to do something, and couldn't take any more of this myself, I'm feeling like I can have some sort of nervous breakdown myself, and I'm the one who has to go to work in an hour see ..... |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 26th, 2003, 1:33am Ok, first off~did he do the O2 for at least 20 min?? If not he could try that again~ If the pain is that intolerable~then he needs to just go ahead and do the TREX~ You are doing the right thing encouraging him. I've done .5 grams and had to get through a day of shadows and then was painfree 4 days. Then it hits again and you have to take a larger dose this time AT LEAST 1.5 grams~which is still half the recreational dose. Repeat this once a week for at least 3 weeks, maybe four~and the cycle is gone~ Good luck to you~! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 26th, 2003, 1:58am Hi Back again. Jeezzz, I'm really clinging to this site (sorry). :-[ Difficult but positive here. He's been sleeping for a few hours, woke up, had coffee. Now he's having something between an attack and a shadow. Can coop with it, so it seems. Much milder then normal (this is a straight 10-scale guy normally). Yup, he tried the O2 for quite some time, but it really hurts his nose and makes it worse. He's back on ice, both to drink and as compress. Looking good, but oh, I feel sorry for him. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 26th, 2003, 2:10am I'm sorry Hannah and Jos, that things got so brutal. The attacks starting so soon after the dose leads me to believe that the Imitrex may not have been completely gone. That coupled with the low dose and the extreme cycle he is in could all be factors. Personally, that long, lower level cluster might turn out to be a good sign of things to come. At least I'm hoping so. Sorry I wasn't here earlier. Best of luck. Again, if you'd like a call..email me. PF Ik ben droevige Hannah en Jos, dat de dingen zo brutaal werden. De aanvallen die zo spoedig beginnen nadat de dosis me ertoe brengt om te geloven dat Imitrex niet volledig kan gegaan te zijn. Dat gekoppeld aan de lage dosis en de extreme cyclus hij is binnen allen factoren kon zijn. Persoonlijk, zou die lange, lagere niveaucluster kunnen blijken een goed teken van dingen om te komen. minste t zo hoop ik. Droevig was ik niet hier vroeger. Beste van geluk. Opnieuw, als you'd zoals een call..email me. Pf |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 26th, 2003, 3:14am Hi Yeah, we were aware we weren´t doing things 100% right, but yet it´s looking good enough. Like I said earlier, Jos had some kind of "flare" but it passed away quickly. He´s becoming more positive, sees clearly that things have clearly changed, and is taking courage from that because it looks just like the things been predicted to him. So we´re hanging in there, I THINK it´s going to do us good, perhaps only after a hard time. LATER he emailed me he was having constant shadows, no real attacks yet though. Looks like it´s definately working, or at least doing something. He feels sick he says. It´s very (no totally) different from any other days. Keep it up Jos!!! Thanks all for the encouragement!!! What an adventure. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 26th, 2003, 7:42am This all sounds typicial of a shrooms dose mid cycle. One of 3 things will happen: 1) The shadows will clear up after 48 hours and the cycle will be terminated. 2) The headaches will resume potentially worse than before but then terminate unexpectedly after a few days. 3) The shadows will continue but progressively degenerate into breakthough attacks. However it is realitvely easy to last the 5 days until the next dose. In the event of 2, try and tough it out for the 5 days and there is a good chance it will break, but if not take a second dose. In the event of 3 take a second dose after 5 days if things are getting worse. If things are getting better then leave it alone. For the second dose take the eqivalent of 1g dried, because I'd like to see slightly more evidence of the shrooms at work. Do not increase the dose beyond that point until we see how that goes. Remember that most medications are measured in mg. The psilocybin content of those shrooms is measured in mcg - that's 1000 times smaller. So given that any prescription drug takes many doses to become effective, then it's not surprising if something 1000 times less concentrated takes several attempt, especially given that you are at peak cycle. Shrooms are about the only thing that can break a cycle so easily. Hang in there something is working, and shrooms often make it worse/different before it gets suddenly better. I've been through this many many times. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 26th, 2003, 10:18am This is crazy.I woke at 5:00am with the beast coming on,never have I had one at this time.It did not seem the same though,kind of stabing to k5.So I grabbed the 02 mask and gave it another try and low and behold ten minutes later no more stabbing. I went back to bed no problem. 8:00 am the same stabbing to k5 came back,I grabbed the mask switching between 8LPM & 10LPM and in ten minutes gone,no more beast. NO TREX and no headaches.I can deal with this no problem until Saturday,which would be plenty long enough for my next dose of cubes,and at that point I truely think it will break the cycle completely. This has been so frustrating I can't not tell you.The one thing that I will say is I used Trex 2 times after dosing,but for some reason I am getting results from the shrooms. The one thing I did notice is I have to hit the 02 the minute the shadow shows up or it does not work for me,if it makes it to a full blown k7 or better I am screwed the 02 magnifies my situation. What a long strange trip it's been. :o BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Henk on Nov 26th, 2003, 11:45am on 11/26/03 at 02:10:21, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Hey Pinkfloyd, HannahFroukje, BT and all others.... First to Pinkfloyd: man, you sound a *lot* more intelligent in English... Those translation-robots are crap :P A small update: no change in my situation, still pain, med and shroom free for almost 2 years now! ( pain free for almost 2.5 years) I dismantled my shroom farm. I expected to need shrooms every 2 weeks, but things went a little different :) HannahFroukje: I hope that shrooms will prove to work for Jos as well, i'll keep my fingers crossed. Though you don't know me, I hope that helps! One remark about melatonin: As far as I know, melaTOMATINE is not the same as melatonin! But my doctor made a prescription for it and the farmacy was able to deliver it although it's not considered to be medicine in the NL. If you mail me, I can give you the address/phone of a company that continued selling them after melatonin was taken off the market in the Netherlands, maybe they still do! In my case only the time released version worked well! Heared others report the same...... It reduced both frequency and intensity of my attacks. To all other shroom-astronauts: Good luck and may the force be with you! Henk |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Paigelle on Nov 26th, 2003, 12:00pm This has nothing to do with the mushrooms. I was just wondering why they took Melatonin off the market there? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 26th, 2003, 12:06pm on 11/26/03 at 11:45:16, Henk wrote:
Oh Great.....Actually Dutch is my native language and I've been translating into english!!!! :-/ Just kidding, but thanks Henk. I know Jos needs translations and I didn't know if he might be trying to read this thread without his "translator" around. Glad you're still doing so well. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Nov 26th, 2003, 12:15pm Friend of a friend had heard about the research into Psiocybin treatment for CH. As he can only get hold the Mexican Shrooms he would like to know if anybody out there can give him some idea how many he should be using to make the tea???? He has started to use it - first time 15gms in about 2 cups water, no adverse effects just a bit of stomach cramp, BUT NO HEADACHES for 46 hours, then 2 lasting 30mins at kip 6-7. Next dose 30gms but made to Mr Pinks Kissass recipe - thanks Pinky - Now this had a effect, good though, giggled for about 2 hours, he's not done that for a while. Drank tea at 4p.m. First CH hit 1p.m. next 7a.m. next 12 p.m. all lasting about 30 -45mins again kip 6-7. This really means a lot to him, he had a heart attack two years ago and can no longer take the "LIFE SAVER" Imitrex. If anyone out there can help him with the dosage he would be so grateful, please, please. B.T. hope all is going well, don't give up, you're not alone The Remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 26th, 2003, 12:35pm OK these are fresh so the dried equivalent is something like 1.5-3g but it sounds like the shrooms are a weaker variety. Getting to the giggle stage is perhaps slighty too far but no big deal. Perhaps pull the dose back a little to maybe 20g just to be safe. Stay clear of all other medication apart from O2. Attempt to reach as refuglar sleep/wake/eat pattern as possible. Each 5 small meals a day (2-3 of those can be little snacks). Do not dehydrate. Get a little exercise. These things all compliment the shrooms. Dose with the shrooms a maximum of once every 5 days. Things may take 48 hours to settle down after a dose. After that one of 3 things may happen: 1) The cycle will break. 2) The headaches will get REALLY bad for 3-5 days then abruptly stop. 3) He will shadow with occasional breakthrough attacks, and these may getting increasingly better of worse. If they get worse then take another dose after 5 days. If the result is number 3) each time, then slowly attempt to increase the length of time between doses. Once you get to a month then the cycle has almost certainly ended. Worst case scenario you will be able to control and minimise the headaches with a periodic 5 day dose. Under those circumstances reduce the dose to the very minimum that remains effective. This worked for Henk and took something like 6 months, but during that time he was largely PF and has been pF for 2 years since with no shrooms. The main sign of success is that the shrooms alter the nature of the attacks. This may be for the better or the worse intitally - that's not the issue. If they change the attacks then given time and commitment they will ultimately break it. It is not uncommon to have 48 hours of shadows then 5 days of sheer and utter hell followed by nothing. This has happened to me twice. Hope this helps. Flash |
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Title: UPDATE Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 26th, 2003, 12:49pm Hi All, Thought I'd just post a short one. Hubby's head is finally clearing up a bit. He hates the constant (now very light) shadowing, and we expect CH's tonight for sure but I think we're heading the right way, he's starting to feel a little better, "normal" headache is getting less. And so far today, no real attacks today. I understand the dosing allright, but hey, we're just going real slow on it, we don't want to trigger anything we can't calm down anymore and risk having to use the imitrex, we're happy with the way it's going now, looks promising!!! We will see what happens, thanks for all the dosing tips. BT you sound as if you finally are getting this thing down, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you too ;;D hang in there. PinkFloyd, you're Dutch is better then mine when I've had a double dose of mushees I suppose ;;D ;;D ;;D. All tries mostly appreciated. Thanks all others for encouragement, PM's and kind words, made me feel a lot more secure about the whole thing, now it was lots easier to help him through it! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Henk on Nov 26th, 2003, 1:09pm on 11/26/03 at 12:00:02, Paigelle wrote:
Hey Paigelle, I'm not sure, but I think it has to do with the bunch of claims: melatonin is supposed to boost the immune system, slow down aging and make you sleep better. I think only the last one is proven. Too many people started using it without medical attention. Strange thing is: in every medium town in the Netherlands, you can buy magic mushrooms legally! But melatonin? Nope..... *grin* Also: melatonin is off the market in the entire ECG What a world! Henk |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 26th, 2003, 1:44pm BT, I'm glad to hear you are doing better. O2 definitely works better at the onset of an attack. I know your frustration all to well. I hope things continue to improve for you, I think they will! ((((((((GOOD VIBES)))))))))) TO YOU! Hannah, Good to hear Jos is feeling better. The constant shadows are a good sign. I'm betting tonight goes much better for him. Larger doses work better for me. If I do 1/2 a gm I shadow hard the next day. I have found that 1 1/2gm is the magic # for me. I will get 4 days PF from that like clockwork and then dose again until I break the cycle. This is just what works for me, this treatment is definitely different for everyone, you just have to find what works for you guys. Best of Luck to you! Don't hesitate to e-mail if you need to talk to someone tonight. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by _Binger on Nov 26th, 2003, 2:27pm Well....After all this I really don't know where to start. I've been somewhat hesitant to explain my entire situation, as most people on this site tend to think that some of my most powerful remedys are thought not to work. First off, people should consider my situation...I am 26, living on the East coast, I am just about 5'11'', 140 lbs. The only real difference's I guess are my Adnoids removed (who named those things) when I was much younger and an accident when I was 17 with no seat belt. This accident is what supposedly gave me seizures (4-6) a year, but not until I was about 23. My doctor thought all this gave me the CH, but then I reminded him about the ones I had in public school, just not on a schedule. Pheww....Now the point (although if every one wrote that type of stuff we might find interesting similarities.) When I eat mushrooms, and find I have not eaten enough to do the job, I eat a little more----For a CH, never more then 3.5 g dried. The one time the little bit of mushy's wasn't enough and I had no more, I ate a LITTLE piece of Imitrex (probably better then the trex alone, although I am not suggesting it.) with it and it definitely worked, although it lit me up in some strange way. (I was more co-ordinated and active then before I took it.....) Also, before eating mushy's, I have never intentionally bothered to detox from the trex, and never had the reactions with crazy rebounds (let alone ANY real problem combining the two) like others. Over the past few years I have seen my CH go from crying, banging my head in pain, to the point where they still are coming back on a cycle, but a lot of the time it's 250 mg Acetemetaphin, 250 Aspirin, and a cup of Yerba Mate'(good herbal tea-- many of the positive effects of caffeine, while leaving out many undesirable ones----but not for everyone.) A lot of the time the pain is there, but the heaviest I could call it is pressure. I don't know if this will help other people, but if you have questions feel free to write. BINGER |
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Title: Somebody Help Post by Youngin on Nov 26th, 2003, 2:36pm Hello everyone, all your information on meds is well appreciated. I am an 18 year old male, and i suffer from constate clusters as well. Its a pain in the butt because i am missing school and work due to the headaches, i am on imitrex pills right now and last ngiht took a shot of lithium. Now it seemed to help but most likely because i was on so many meds it knocked me out. Please keep me informed on any new ideas to help control these CH. Thanks Younin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 26th, 2003, 2:53pm on 11/26/03 at 13:09:13, Henk wrote:
Henk, Yeah, I remember something about it. Also I have been searching to find MELATONINE instead of MELATOMATINE but they all say it's the same ... which is hard to believe for me because melatomatine is made from tomatoes and melatonine is suppposed to be made in my HEAD ... so what am I .... a tomato-head right ;;D. Well definately a gingerhead that's for sure ;;D ;;D ;;D. I've been searching on to find melatonine, and think I might have found it (if we still need it) but if I'm wrong I'll definately mail you over it, thanks. Back to the mushies: I have been out of the house for a minute to look at a coughing horse ... come back ... and suddenly I hear hammering and drilling from upstairs ... OHMYGOD hubby Jos suddenly going bazerk [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] he's started on some active stuff now, and is hanging shelves on the wall [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] what's gotten in HIS head???? Definately something else then CH I'd say .... in a minute I'm gonna warn him seriously [smiley=mad.gif] if you don't cut that active stuff out for at least two days I'm gonna [smiley=bash.gif] you on the head real good. I haven't spent an entire night awake and worrying to have him spoil it again now over a jar of screws and some shelves. Still worried for tonight ... but HEY LOOKING GOOD SO FAR!!!! Binger, you story sounds more or less the same then Jos' story: his headaches (normal but severe ones) started after having something removed from his nose when he was 8, and his CH started after a heavy car accident. His nose is still his sore spot. Can you use oxygen? Usually Jos is having a lot of trouble with that. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 26th, 2003, 9:32pm It's 8:30pm and I have not gone over K1 today ::), with the exception of some stabbing thing this morning that went on it's way quickly after some 02.I have had to use the 02 a couple of times in fear but thats it.Cold Pepsi seems to help for some reason. The shrooms have done something without question.I just hope it stays this way till Saturday,I am not going to dose short of the 4-5day waiting period.Saturday I am going to blast the shit out of the beast. This has been the best day hands down in 5 weeks. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 27th, 2003, 12:54am Hi Quick update. Did have attacks tonight, definately different because they were indeed a LOT shorter ( only 8-25 minutes). Last one lots of pain though (9-10 [smiley=headbanger.gif]) but only for a short while in a peak; he's been sitting them out so far [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif] [smiley=bigcry.gif], it is just bearable because it takes only short. No trex, poor guy. It's helping us that we know what we can expect, it's just a matter of getting through it. I hope we get off a little easy though :-/ Told him it can happen that he will have a few days of constant sharp short attacks. Not nice to be looking at but let's just hope the best part is yet to come. We'll just have to wait. BT sounds good eh??? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 27th, 2003, 1:25am HannahFroukje and Jos hang in there.I would up the dose to the point that Jos feels it for sure that way at least you know the shrooms are on the job.I am far from an expert as you can see from my previous posts,but I can tell you the shrooms do work. I am still in fear but at least I am feeling much better for the moment,I don't want to jinx myself.I have always been a hardheaded student and nothing changed when it came to this,no trex 1.5grams etc.. At one point I don't even know what the hell was working shrooms, trex, god who knows. I feel terrible when I hear Jos's situation because I can feel the pain just reading your post. I am going to hit some 02 and hit the rack. Hang in there. BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by The_Remnant on Nov 27th, 2003, 8:24am Thanks Flash just what we needed. Last night was fun - 9pm massive HA at very big 9!! followed by 5 minis in the night, nothing above a 5 and only lasting short time, he didn't even get out of bed- does this sound about right to anybody? Could they be coming to an end? Secondly, as I mentioned yesterday, my friend had a massive heart attack two years ago and he wants me to pass this message on to everybody taking IMITREX "DO NOT TAKE ANY MORE THAN TWO A DAY" He was taking up to six a day, and I know that anybody who doesn't suffer CH will say he was asking for trouble, but those of you who do suffer will know why he was taking so much, it is thought that this contributed to his heart attack - so please take care. This site is superb, better than any neuro. Thanks a lot. ;) The remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Nov 27th, 2003, 11:48am HannahFroukje: it sounds like he will need another dose. Wait till 5 days after the last dose and don't go near the Trex despite what Binger says. This time up the dose slightly. The guy in the mushroom shop may be of assistance there. you want to take just enough to feel a mild effect. BT: If things continue to improve and you stay PF then no need to dose again. If you are PF tomorrow and Sat then don't dose. Wait until you get another proper attack and then dose, although this may not happen. Remember that the 5 day rule is a min dosing period. If you can go longer then do, but not if you're getting hit. If you're not getting hit then don't dose - no need to stir things up! Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 27th, 2003, 11:57am Flash I am getting hit just it is more tolarable.For some reason I am getting hit in my sleep now 3hrs apart like clockwork. The 02 is effective if I feel it coming and get to it in time.In my sleep I don't see it coming and have been riding it out.They are about k4-5 just enough to piss ya off. Once I am awake I get a handle on it. I was planning on a dose Saturday. Peace BT |
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Title: Quick updat Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 28th, 2003, 1:40am Hi guys, We're patient here and doing okay. Yesterday Jos - 2nd day after the mushrooms - was having a day FULL of attacks. Instead of his regular pattern: 1 hit in 3 hours, now it was 1 hit in 1,5 hours or 2 hours max. Very tiring, BUT ... it were all very little ones: 9 minutes, 20 minutes, 15 minutes ... they all came on strong, pushed a little and then just faded away suddenly. He didn't use any imitrex, it's getting easier now because now he knows it's just a matter of sticking with it and then it will just go away quickly. So he hasn't used any imitrex at all after the mushies. In the evening on the 2nd day it all "died out" a little and he started to feel really good. Very clear head, feeling just very "NORMAL". No attacks in the evening, not one. Scared to go into the night yes. What happened in the night was that we stirred from our sleep at 00.30 just like normal nights, looked pretty bad, we got the whole circus started with ice-water, ice-on-head, backrubs .... and then in 5 minutes [smiley=huh.gif][smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] it suddenly died out and we we're almost going like "HUH??? Where is it?". I went back to bed, Jos likes to stay awake a bit. I woke up again at 04.00 to find my husband still missing, which is usually NOT a good sign, I will find him screaming with pain somewhere, disoriented and not knowing what to do, so I startled up and jumped downstairs butt-naked ... to find my hubby still sound asleep on the couch ... :-* .... strange ... so went back to my warm bed again, left him sleeping there. Around 06.00 (yep folks, more then 5 hours later for him!!!!) I woke up again because I heard him scream "ICE ICE ICE ICE ICE ICE ICE!!!", so ran downstairs and got ice for him ... 9 minutes of screaming and whooooosh .... all dies out .... jeeeezzzz, we are getting somewhere: 5 whole hours of sleep, what a blessing! Now I'm happy, I have to go to school today and that's hard on just 3-4 hours of sleep, which is the most I can get these days. We won't change anything unless with a reason, I expect it will return like everyone predicts, but for now we're happy with it, this is at least bearable and looking hopefull. Probably will need another dose , perhaps two, but it's getting us somewhere! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 28th, 2003, 11:00am Flash I am having very mild shadowing at this point but feel an attack could happen.Maybe just scared but do you think I should dose on Saturday. I have that pressure feeling going on in my head,but it could be just sore from the beating it took I don't know for sure. I know the feeling of the shrooms and think it would bust this pressure thing for good. It could be the 02 causing the pressure,also. I will say this I am greatful as can be and I thank all of you for all your help. Thanks again BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 28th, 2003, 12:16pm on 11/28/03 at 11:00:42, BT wrote:
The pressure is normal and yes, another dose would most likely drain away that pressure. I'd suggest taking a good hard look at the progress you've made and see if that progress is continuing or has leveled off. A journal may help. If you're still making progress you may want to hold off on the last dose. I know the feeling of knowing the power of the fungii and the desire to hurry things up, but if the last dose you took is still working along with your own bodies repair kit, you're better off in the long run, waiting to say goodbye to the last shadow. Be ready to kick the beast while he's down if you seem to stall out of make any reversal. Hannah and Jos, Great news also that things are progressing as hoped. Also, thanks for the visual hannah (sorry Jos, LOL) I know of 6 people that all started about the same time and it was rough on this end, the first couple of days. Obviously not as rough as on your ends. Just hoping that all would go well for everyone. Sometimes the updates and posts and emails just don't arrive quick enough. I'm not complaining, just anxious, as you all are. I'm pretty proud of all of you. I don't know how Flash and PinkSharkMark did this for so many years. :-/ All the current six are doing well and it was an especially thankful Thanksgiving. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 28th, 2003, 12:32pm I think you should dose again BT. You have the Beast on the run. Knock him out! That’s what works for me! But I don't tend to get hit harder after dosing so that’s easy for me to say. Best of luck to you whichever way you decide to go. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 28th, 2003, 3:39pm I am going to let it rip Saturday.The beast is going down. I don't think I am going to get hit harder after the next dose.I really feel it is going to be like the final brain clensing,all the pressure will be gone and I can get on with life. Peace BT 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by The_Remnant on Nov 28th, 2003, 4:20pm Hi Sorry to bother you but he's having a hard time right now. I am trying to stop him taking his medication - the Doctors want to put him on Lithium :-/ and he's considering it!! Things have got much better, I even did a graph of his HA's over the last seventeen days so he could see the difference, but when one comes he gives up. :-[ As a non sufferer I can only guess at the pain, but he has gone from Kip 10 to kip 6 over 5 days with no medication only the shrooms. Tomorrow will be five days since he last took the shrooms, do you think he should re-dose? At the moment he is screaming in the kitchen and I really don't know what to do - pathetic hey! Thanks for being there anyway. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 28th, 2003, 10:29pm If he is in that much pain I would dose now.Thats what I did and it worked.41/2 days is enough time.Make sure the dose is big enough for him to feel. I am sure Flounder,Flash,orPink will tell you the same thing. I went through it this last week and they told me take the shrooms before the meds. Man I feel for ya BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:08am The_Remnant: oh yes, it's so tough to be the one on the side-line sometimes. We did just start using the shrooms ourselves but I would say dosing sounds like the logical thing to do? This is how stuff went with us: After a really quiet morning Jos got one attack that lasted longer then these short funny ones of yesterday. Then 4 or 5 hours later he got a BAD one, not kip 10 or even 9 but it would just not go away, took 2,5 hours. We were wondering about what to do and were still talking about it, and then the next one hit after exactly 3 hours! Bad sign. And bad attack too, he entered the begging-stage this time which is bad - bad - really bad. 9 or 10 and LASTING too. So THEN we knew what to do! I made the shroomies, still dosed low though, I took about 1,1 grams now, that 's just a bit more as last time. He drank it right after this brutal one. Falls asleep on the couch exhausted. After the 2nd dose of shrooms: Next one arrives after 5 hours, but VERY mild, VERY short, perhaps 7 minutes. He falls asleep again. This was 23.30. At 05.30 I hear him calling me again (he's sleeping on the couch sometimes where he can sit up better) ... so I hurry downstairs (yep ... Pink ... can't bother to get dressed then, sorry) ... get the ice out ... but eh .... then hubby says "oh sorry dear, I thought a BAD one was coming, but it seems to be a false alarm of som'tin?" ;;D. Then he looks at the clock, and goes [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] it is 05.30? Man these things DO work!" Yup, 6 hours of precious sleep!!! I thought I would never ever have a normal night of sleep again in my life, ... well felt that way anyway. So I think we did the right thing on dosing a.s.a.p. when things got worse again, even though it wasn't 5 days ago. It was no use waiting. Otherwise he could not have avoided using imitrex anyway. Now we're still "clean" on imitrex. Good luck you Remnant, hang in there, have your sufferer read the stories, it is truely helping, it is hard to trust in it, but it IS helping! BT I'm SO happy for you. You done it! YOu got through! Way to go man!!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:19am I am not out of the woods yet.I have not been hit over k1 today but I am fighting the beast with 02.I went through 34liters in 1-1/2 days.I will get hit in my sleep tonite,but after some work I have to take care of in the morning, I am hittin the beast with 3.5grams of dried shrooms. Seeing I have to wait 5 days between doses I fear underdosing.3.5 grams puts me to a level 2 and this way I know they are at work. Good Luck BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:22am Hannah, Glad to hear you guys got some sleep. I'm thinking things will go much easier for you now. You did the right thing dosing again. I'm thinking of you guys and sending out ((((((((((((GOOD VIBES))))))))))). |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:31am BT, I know you did that amount last time but did you still have trex in your system then. That could have countered the effects of the shrooms. Or maybe you just have some mild shrooms. Usually 3.5 gms would put me in orbit. 1.5 puts me at level 2. You know your system better than me but I just wanted to throw that out there. Good Luck!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 29th, 2003, 1:46am on 11/29/03 at 00:08:52, HannahFroukje wrote:
That's ok hannah. The visuals from these posts are usually heartbreaking. Even though we know what will most likely happen, it's distressing to read about the bad attacks. Didn't hurt to take our minds off the pain for a moment. ;) So, it looks like Jos made it about 3 full days between doses? Can't really tell what times the doses were taken. I am very happy that you made the decision to use the shrooms rather than the trex when the decision had to be made of one or the other. It *may* prolong the time it takes to say goodbye to the last shadow by a day or two, but then again, it may not. Can you explain a little bit about the level of "trip" that Jos experienced with this 2nd dose? Did he notice any visual distortions etc. or did he just go to sleep? Remnant.... Yes, 5 days is best but, if it's take the shrooms or scrap the project and return to the trex....make some tea! BTW, I don't think you or your friend are pathetic at all. It's very difficult on the supporter to stand by and watch what is happening to someone they care about. It's also very nerve-wracking to not only be dealing with a pain that even the experts can't explain what is happening to us, but then to put your faith in something that we are all still learning about.....welcome to the trailblazers. We're all finding out how Lewis and Clark felt. Some of us already made it to the coast and we're just sending messages back helping people stay on the trail. BT...good luck!! PF (see you all on the coast!!) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 29th, 2003, 2:33am on 11/29/03 at 01:46:22, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Ehm... to the first thing yes, we dosed the first time on tuesdaynight, and now the second time on fridaynight. On the third : the level of the trip the second time (first time was nill). He noticed nothing himself. But what I did notice was that he sounded just a wee bit drunk, just noticable like he was a bit sleep-drunk. After a short while, perhaps 15 minutes sitting on the couch, he already fell asleep. Now I don't wanna go into detail, and perhaps no one will get what I'm saying now, but I'll just say that the "shadow of evilness" was there, which is enough to convince me that "NO, this guy should NOT have an actual trip" because it sure as hell is going to be a BAD one. On the rest: excuse me for being a bit stubborn about this but no matter what anyone else says we're gonna leave the real trippin' even if it's light, to others and just take enough for Jos to get an effect for the CH, not the actual trip itsself, because I can almost be sure it would not be a good experience. If he's tripping, I DON't wanna be around :(. We'll just take it nice and slow ;;D ... and SAFE. It's 08.30 now and things are going really well, he's feeling okay, and hasn't had an attack since 23.30 last night. REally COOL-L-L-L ::) ::) ::). No matter what happens next on "fun stuff", strange attacks or what, we're convinced already that this stuff can do something for us, I guess it's just a matter of staying on it and getting through it??? I've got a third dose if I need it (guess I will) so I hope and trust we can beat the beast by creaping up from behind [smiley=curtain.gif] with low doses rather then facing him up front with a high trip. We 'll just try and smouther him in his sleep [smiley=sleep.gif], secretly pull his guts out [smiley=hurl.gif] and hit him [smiley=hammer.gif]until he gives up and lays down to die [smiley=ugh.gif] *$"|[smiley=arg.gif]^%&&** [smiley=wtf.gif] R-rrr.[smiley=ugh.gif] [smiley=ugh.gif] [smiley=ugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 29th, 2003, 3:31am on 11/29/03 at 02:33:14, HannahFroukje wrote:
I don't think you're stubborn or even incorrect in the size of dose you chose. You're getting the desired results. We've said all along that it is a sub-hallucinogenic dose that not is not only desired, but in most cases, works the best. Correct medical terms would classify any amount of psilocybin that effects the "system" as a trip. Even if it just allows Jos (and you) to go to sleep. I completely concur that if this size dose and effect is as much as you feel comfortable with, then by all means, you have made the right decision. I understand what you said about the "shadow of evilness" (sounds like a movie title) and again, concur with your decision. Sounds like even I wouldn't like to be around! 8) You may not need that 3rd dose until you want to do a maintenance dose in MAY. If you do need it later on in the week, so be it. It doesn't mean you haven't done everything right. Evryone seems a little different and I have the feeling it has to do more with the severity of the cycle than it does with whether or not everything is done by a still being written, book. There are so many variables, severity of the cycle, medications used, type of cycle (chronic or episodic), one's sensitivity to medications/chemicals, pain thresholds (which is not just one's perception of pain but very complex set of neurological processes). Jos' body and your overall perceptions of the situation will tell you what you need to do. Once something has been introduced into our bodies, our brains have a way of telling us if we need more or less of it in the future. But that's another long story.... I guess I could have just said...."you're doing a fine job," but I have a difficult time with short posts for some reason. :-X PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 29th, 2003, 4:55am Thanks PinkFloyd, you're a great guy! And all yee others too. What a gem I found in this site. What if I hadn't found it, we would be still begging for Imitrex at the doctor's and the pharmacy [smiley=huh.gif] It's 10.45 .... still going well!!! We're so relieved by the sudden rest that floated into our home; we had breakfast with lots of coffee and cosy talks and without disturbances, and most important to Jos without his normal pounding "afterpains" .... jeezz By the way, just a request ... Jos is not a guy of many words and his clustercycle is always making him totally numb of mind (unable to think or respond) and kinda passive, so he won't be cruising the internet or looking on forums like I do, but he is still the sufferer not me, and it's his birthday tomorrow. Trusting that we keep stuff in our home under control and that cheerfull words will be in place: could some of you send him an email for his birthday tomorrow? His email address is josmartinot@chello.nl . That will surely cheer him up you know! ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D Ow, better mention something recognizable in the subject line, we're getting a lot of spam, it would be a pity if you ended up in the trashbin ;). :-X Love ya' all ! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 29th, 2003, 7:50am Quote:
I hear ya Flounder.By any chance did you no my friend Pete who passed away recently from the Empire Music Foundry(www.zyg.net)rest his soul,I see your "sing sweet songs to rock my soul" logo and it reminds me of him. Anyway I am just hardly feeling the shadow with slight stabs here and there but feel it is pretty much over.I am hoping another dose isn't going to bring anything back,I would puke. I spent a decade on the Dead trail so the Psilocybin I am no stranger to,it's not the amount I am worried about,it's if any amount will have an adverse effect.Under normal conditions I would munch away but this is something that CAN NOT BACKFIRE I would freak!! I think I want to just knock the beast for one final loop,plus I like the effects very much.It's been a long time and it has had some other positive effects on me. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 29th, 2003, 8:09am By the way I quit smoking over these CH's and am not going back after 28years.So there is a silver lining to every black cloud. :D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Nov 29th, 2003, 10:05am on 11/29/03 at 08:09:38, BT wrote:
Probably one of the best things you could do. Smoking always seemed to exacerbate my episodes. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Nov 29th, 2003, 12:05pm BT, Sorry to hear about your friend, I didn't know him. Just a Jerry fan. I went three years CH free in the late 80's when I was seeing a lot of shows. It wasn't until I found this site and Flash posting about his success with LSD and Shrooms that I put two and two together. That's great that you Quit smoking! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 29th, 2003, 5:03pm Quote:
I know what your saying about the dose amounts Flounder,some people get much more effected. The same 3.5 gram dose has my buddy "in orbit" and I am hardly a level 1.He is enjoying himself though. I am selling my house and am standing here talking to perspective buyers with no problem including no CH's. Back in the day it was nothing for me to scarf 7-8 grams. [smiley=laugh.gif] So far so good. Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by The_Remnant on Nov 29th, 2003, 6:28pm The Remnant here Thanks everybody, but I couldn't believe it, he started with the HA and I couldn't sit and watch, the screams, :(you all know ) Maybe Hannah better than most!- just after I sent the message he came in smiling!!! 15mins at most :) - it's not possible. He had a further 3 in the night lasting between 15 and five minutes, kip 6 at most. Please God say the beast is beaten! At one point he was shouting at it saying "go on you bastard you've got nothing, fight, fight, I'll win" good sign hey. We're going to leave it until Monday and see what happens, but if nothing else he's taking no meds and they don't seem to be getting worse. Thanks so much all of you. Have a very happy birthday Jos. The Remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 30th, 2003, 4:12am Hi Hey Remnant, so now it seems to be going the right way? That's great! Buckle up for some nasty surprises though ... and try not too panic if that happens. We had such a quiet easy day yesterday, that we almost forgot the cyclus is still active. During the evening Jos got one mild attack, that was difficult, it was a scale 6 or 7 but we were still like "oh well, if this is it, we can take it". Then only 40 minutes later (this is BRUTAL ....) he got a full-blown attack that went of the scale .... OUCH! I knew that could happen but it was hard anyway and Jos got hit both ways, I mean physically and emotionally, and he did nothing but scream at the top of his lungs, from frustration and pain, he started throwing stuff, was just so MAD[smiley=mad.gif]he had another attack, those emotions never make it any better, but eh ... best not bring that up while he's being hit, or I'll be kicked outside in the cold street. Could do nothing else but wait. This got so mean, and it lasted from 22.00 till 00.30, poor guy. I was almost ready to hand him his injector, and I would have done that if he would have asked, but he only screamed "I can't take this", "I can't take this!!!", he didn't actually ASK for the imitrex, so I didn't reply, said nothing, rubbed his back (running target ...) and tried to avoid things being broken or kicked over while he stumbled through the room. This was really horrible ugh ..... took SO long, I thought it would never end. He complained a lot about "zig-zagging", he meant that the pains were not on one side as usual but were zig-zagging from one to the other side and back, this gave him the creeps obviously, because he kept switching the ice. Weird! Finally it subsided, and then it left him with a splitting headache, was hard for him to go to sleep but finally he dozed off, and I went to bed exhausted around one after cleaning up the room (he threw up all the water he drank, oh boy :'( :'( :'(). Next attack was milder again, 5 or 6 max, and it died out after 40 minutes. That's where I got a little hope again, that this brutal attack will still have been a reaction to the mushrooms, if it was than from this it should be getting a bit better for us, because that's what happened the first time. And lucky for us it did, he fell asleep again at 05.30 and slept till 09.30, woke up without an attack, but felt like shit. Poor bugger, this was really hard. I can hardly believe he didn't use imitrex. But he didn't, he made it through the worst attack you can imagine, with his imitrex-kit on the table, and didn't use it. Pffee-wie ... I hope it's really that important NOT to shoot up ... because this was hell. I keep telling him he shouldn't be using imitrex, because he will make it worse and bring on more attacks and possibly stop the action of the mushies, but it's still hard you know? Anyway, we're okay now, still feeling like shit , but the sky looks clear enough again, and I'm hoping this has been some kind of death-shudder of the beast. If he 's not ready to die yet, I think I'm ready to kill him with my own bare hands and rip his throat with my own teeth (hope he's not furry), MAN I HATE HIM! These attacks can really piss me off, it is like your partner is being tortured by some kind of invisible regiem in front of your eyes, and you can't even see the torturers .... and I'm getting really MAD, and want to shout "Show yourself, so I can KILL you". But there's never a reply. I bet the beast is a big chicken that likes to poses of as a wearwoolf >:( >:( >:(. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Nov 30th, 2003, 10:15am Hannah I feel for ya. I am going to give what worked for me.It is not the same as everybody and that is what should be noted. Last Friday I took 4grams of shrooms,as the effects got less intense I got hit very hard k10 every 3 hours.This dose I could feel the"high" from for sure but it was no big deal.All day Saturday and Sunday was hell on earth.I hit the Trex I am only human. On Tuesday I took 6-7grams with the thoughts the receptors were not all open in my brain.I had much less effect but started to get results as far as the CH's go.Wensday morning was getting hit with a K8 in the middle of some important work and hit the Trex. After that Trex shot I did not get hit above a K2 again!The CH's started to fade.At this point I started using 02 like crazy.If a shadow was coming it was on the 02 for 30 minutes+.I have not had to use the Trex since Wensday morning. Saturday morning(yesturday) I hit the beast again with 3.5grams of shrooms again and I am sure I have him at bay."He's gone and ain't never comin' back".The beast has no more strenght to fight. From my side of the coin I would hit the son of a bitch with everything ya got because that is what the beast is doing.Fight fire with fire! I would like to say anybody with CH's should use shrooms.They work no doubt about it!I will use once a month just for good measure to avoid this beast the rest of my life. [smiley=laugh.gif] Good luck! I would also like to thank again Flash,Pink and Flounder for all there help.Just a week ago myself and my family were feeling hopeless in the battle and are now going to enjoy the holidays.HO HO HO Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 30th, 2003, 12:03pm Hi BT Thanks for the advice, but ehm ... I ain't gonna sit in this house with a tripping Jos on 6-7 grams of shrooms, no way! The attack he had this night might have been monstrous, but after that he didn't have any other attack, so I'm still thinking this weird heavy attack was the effect of the mushroom. I was thinking during the time he was being hit, that it was a weird one and hopefully it would disappear after this one again ... and so it did. Today was an easy day again, PFEWWIEHHH 8) 8) 8), I'm SO glad it was, because he could not have made it through another "scale 11" without med's. BT, am really glad for you it seems to work out now. But I'm sure we're gonna get there too, even though we dose a little lower. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 1st, 2003, 8:44am WOW! Take a week off for vacation and miss a months worth of good data. From personal experience, it is normal for some (me) to have very strange and unpredictable attacks while crushing the beast with this treatment. I will be trying the preventative method this comming year (episodic) but had similar results last year to what I am hearing here. My only advice is DO NOT GIVE UP! If you stay the course and commit to the treatment (drug free, drug free, drug free) relief will come. Hell, a week or two of wacky attacks beats the hell out of submissively becoming the beasts "bitch" for months at a time. Good luck and know we are all pulling for you. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 1st, 2003, 9:29am on 12/01/03 at 08:44:55, jminmilwaukee wrote:
Yeah!! About that vacation! Next time run it through the board of directors before you leave, will ya!! ;;D PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 1st, 2003, 9:31am Quote:
My wife is just the opposite,she can't sit in the house with a K10 BT throwing furniture. :D I understand the fear of the trip,but it is not like someone is drunk.I can't stand to be around drunks.It has a soothing on the body effect. Anyway I hope Jos nails the beast.I don't know enough about dose amounts.I do know if you take enough it will crush the beast. I have lost all shadows at this point and feel 100% again.I am so greatful I can not say it in words. Good Luck BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 1st, 2003, 10:41am on 12/01/03 at 09:31:00, BT wrote:
Hi BT ... Hey! I'm getting good at avoiding chairs, glasses and oxygencilinders flying through the room hee hee ;;D ;;D ;;D. I suppose you are the giggly type on mushies [smiley=laugh.gif]. Wouldn't mind to sit around watching YOUR trip then 8). If you don't like people getting drunk, don't visit us! Jos will be sober as hell, but I won't! 8) 8) 8) Anyway, you are doing great, aren't ya' ??? Can I already congratulate you, or is it too early? If we're ready with the mushies by the time we are celebrating Christmas, I will be happy. Nothing but a good Christmas with parcels and poems (yes! Poems!) and a glass of champagne. Oooooohhhhh, I WANT that champagne!!! Jos likes a sip of it, but not much, so I get to drink the rest of the bottle. Will give me a splendid headache next morning though ... will think of you then ;;D. We'll keep on crushing the beast, thanks for the pick-up too, I translated the text for Jos, so he knows he has to hang in. He's doing great, I admire him for not touching the 'trex, GOD that must be tough, his head is exploding during the 10's, it's so scary. Good luck BT, you're getting there. Hannah |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 1st, 2003, 1:11pm Oops, I work 30 hours in the bar between 1800 Friday and 0200 Sunday, then I sleep till Monday afternoon. Hence I missed all the fun. Anyway I'm back now! HF - the feeling drousy is a sure sign of a very low level trip. This size of dose works well for me. It's hard to get there because it's easy to overshoot but luckily there is a large safety margin, and all overshooting does is wake you up and maybe make you giggle a little at stupid things. Perfectly safe - no need to increase the dose. It is normal to get hit with the odd freaky attack after dosing. What matters is how things pan out over the course of the next 5 days. Should go better than the last 5. BT - congratulations! Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 1st, 2003, 3:49pm Hi all, Just thought I would let you know we have re-dosed today, we followed flashes instructions and only took 20g this time. Last night was a complete Nightmare :( 5 HAs mostly 10's, although they don't last as long now :), which is brill. The good sign is that the first thing he said this morning was "were getting some shrooms today" He's lying on the bed at the moment, feeling very laid back and as he said "relaxed" - not got the giggles this time though. Hope all is well Hannah, as we both started this trail at about the same time I don't feel so alone anymore. Hope you and Jos have a peaceful night. We will keep you informed of progress, and thank god for this site. The Remnant The Remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 2nd, 2003, 3:57am 20 grams??? Do you mean fresh ones? I sure hope you don´t mean dried :P, he will float around on a pink cloud forever ...... With us all is reasonably well, we are keeping a diary and the period after the second dose looks more or less the same then after the first dose. So we´re a bit wondering about what to do with the third, which is probably due then today or tomorrow. Take a higher dose, because we´re not `breaking through`?? Or keeping the same dose, because it´s obviously working okay like this. But ... would then be the `third round`the same AGAIN? Or will it just stop ... Anyway we´ve had a quiet night. Jos still didn´t get much sleep, but since he doesn´t need my help with these ultra-light attacks, I did sleep the whole night through!!! So woke up in the morning feeling quite allright ... and met a VERY moody and gloomy fellar at breakfast, of whom I´m pretty sure it must be my husband ... he complained so much it sounded like he had a terrible night. So looked in his diary and found 3 very mild attacks (8 - 12 minutes). Ughhh..... sometimes I´m having a bit of trouble to always stay supportive .... sometimes you just need someone who says `hi, goodmorning` at breakfast instead of `darn, I had three attacks this night, hardly slept an hour`. Sounds selfish of me doesn´t it .... Then went to work and found a very gloomy and moody collegue in my office .... so heard him out ... then decided that if ANYONE is going to say ANYTHING gloomy to me today, I´m gonna burst and chop somebody´s head off or wreck something .... [smiley=mad.gif] [smiley=crash.gif] [smiley=damncomputer.gif] [smiley=hammer.gif] Gonna get some new mushrooms this afternoon. It is going the same way as last (first) time, so I bet we´ll have to dose again this evening. Goodluck to you remnant! If you wanna write, I´ll be happy to listen. Email = knowitnotall@hotmail.com You´re right it makes a difference that others go through the same thing. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 2nd, 2003, 6:11am If the headaches are getting gradually milder then hold off. If the headaches start to get worse then redose. If you increase the dose then do so only slightly. Even if you can only tie the HAs down to 3 x 10 min mild attacks each day then this is way better than you'll get with any other medication. Keep going like this and eventually everything will peter out. Flash |
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Title: when ya gotta go Post by rumplestiltskin on Dec 2nd, 2003, 10:58am Since y'all are on the subject...Tianna from the other board mentioned a concern about pee testing. Does anyone know how long Psi is detectable? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:16am Sigh .... Jos had eleven attacks today in a period of only 13 hours, this is pretty crazy. Most of them were only very short and only kip 2-3, but now they're increasing in strength fast and getting longer. So we're gonna dose again, I'm sure if we don't he's gonna get hit bad during the night. He's made it three days on the second dose, almost the same as the first dose. Well, it's STILL better then without the mushrooms, still no med's. I hope this third dose will do the trick, if not "the" trick at least a BIT of a trick .... Don't know about the pee [smiley=huh.gif] and since he's not joining any Olympics for at least another two weeks, I'm not worrying about that a lot ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 2nd, 2003, 11:26am The standard drugs test works like this: 1) Cheap $40/head EMIT test. Only 60% accurate, unable to detect hallucinogens. Fail this test and you get: 2) Expensive $400/head GC/MS test. 100% accurate but hallucinogens do not form part of the standard test, and must be specifically tested for (unlikely). Even if your employer specifies running the test for hallucinogens they can only be deteced within 3 days of ingestion (so take them on Friday night). The secret is to pass the EMIT test. If you look up drug testing on EROWID you'll see all the things that can trigger a false positive, so these should be avoided. To summarise drug tests are nothing to worry about. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 2nd, 2003, 5:15pm Just a little update. Not a peep from the beast in 4 days. 8) BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Prense on Dec 2nd, 2003, 7:46pm on 12/02/03 at 11:26:31, Flash wrote:
While this may be accurate for the majority, it is definately not the case for all employers. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Dec 2nd, 2003, 8:13pm on 12/02/03 at 17:15:53, BT wrote:
Amazing huh? I still can't believe that shrooms could end my cycle like flicking off a switch. Even told my boss how I was able to make such a quick turn-around. He asked if I could get any more :o I hope you're able to put together a string full of pain free days! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 2nd, 2003, 8:42pm BT!!!!!!!!! Not to get over exited for you but on behalf of the clusterbusters......welcome to PF living! Four days is a great start for sure but keep an eye on things. I went about ten days at one point and had a minor relapse but still nothing compared to a real attack. Rock on dude :) jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 2nd, 2003, 10:05pm Thanks for the good vibes. I am episodic and my cycles are 8 weeks long.I have not been hit since 1999. I know one thing I will allways be ready with the fungi if anything even twitches. I am pretty sure this cycle is broke.I was screamin' my ass off today and didn't feel a thing.Back to the stress of everyday life. :P |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 3rd, 2003, 3:05am That´s great BT, congratulations. We´re getting a little hopeless here..... yesterday he had 17 or more attacks in 24 hours, I lost count, some of them came only 45 minutes apart. That means he´s screaming for 8-25 minutes (they got worse during the day), then you can sit down for 15 minutes and then the next one start .... owwwffffff this is hard. He can´t sleep, or eat or leave the house. So we dosed again like I said, last night. Took 1,5 grams (dry). Het didn´t notice anything at all from the mushrooms, went to sleep exhausted, woke up 15 minutes later in a short attack. Did his jumping, went back to sleep again, woke up 15 minutes later, same thing. Oh jeezzzz´ [smiley=yikes.gif]. It seemed as nothing changed by the last dose .... ????? Also during the night, the attacks went right on, only a little further apart, but BAD ones. He managed to get through the first kipper 10' but on the second attack after 25 minutes of agony he gave up and took a shot of imitrex. I didn´t blame him, I was already surprised he lasted that long, he looked like he was gonna get a heartattack any minute .... When the imitrex finally worked he sat down on the couch and fell asleep in a second. So I rolled him over a bit, stuffed a pillow under his head and left him sitting there. I feel so sorry for him, he looks like a 80-year old, he so tired of these constant attacks. I´m still hoping the mushrooms will do their trick. It is hard to believe they still will, now things are going this way. I do worry about him now, because he´s getting so tired. And the attacks itsself cause so much anxiety, it´s just a lot of stress if you can´t use anything. Positive note: after the last one he managed to sleep for three hours though. Don´t know how it goes now, I´m at work, he´s home ..... I hope he drops me a line soon, I´m really worried. Would it help to pray? I´m Dutch so not very good at praying. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 3rd, 2003, 5:55am Hannah So sorry to hear about you and Jos, as I told you we re-dosed on Monday afternoon, Monday night a 3 x 7's lasting at most 15mins :D Then things went horribly wrong :( :( 7.45pm last night all hell broke loose, H.A. off the scale lasted 30mins, went away 10mins then BAM it was back big style the ba....d would not go, He was walking up and down throught the house, screaming, bumping into things, like Jos, he looked like a man of eighty, red eyes, grey complection, he was so tired he couldn't hold his head up - I gave in, I know we should have waited but I had to do something, I made more mushies, only half the dose about 7gm (Fresh). He drank half of it at 2am this morning within 10mins the beast had gone. He slept until 10am this morning. He's obviously exhausted now but PF at the moment. Now we have screwed with the dosing I just hope he doesn't pay for it later . |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 3rd, 2003, 6:54am BAD eh ? I can visualise what has been going on in your home, ouch :(. Glad that the mushies worked ... I hope you don´t get hit back .... Like I said, I have to be at work, which is NOT where I wanna be now but I already finished all my days off, and now suddenly all is silent: no mail, no phonecalls from home, so I am worried SICK have tried calling home, no answer. Have emailed, no answer. I´ve already eaten all my nails, started on chewing my desk [smiley=crash.gif], , what´s happening home? [smiley=confused.gif] [smiley=confused.gif] [smiley=confused.gif]. Let us know how you´re doing for the rest, I would like to hear! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 3rd, 2003, 9:42am HF - since he has had no discernable hallucinogenic effects from the shrooms, increase the dose until some very slight effects become noticable - just to verify the shrooms are correct. Very slight effects will be a bit of a buzz, feeling wide awake, and some giggles. Do not increase them too much, just a little. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 3rd, 2003, 12:07pm Hannah, have you been able to contact Jos yet? is he o.k.? Gerard has had 3 today first one lasted about 15mins, kip 8, but they seem to be getting worse each time, he's just finished THE TEA from last night, he is so desperate at the moment. He is not allowed Imitrex because of his heart attack, but he told me this morning that he still has some - BAD NEWS - I have no idea where it is and he was saying that he will take it if they stay like this bugger, bugger, bugger. As far as what to do next I have no idea, what are your ideas? [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 3rd, 2003, 12:38pm Hi Can imagine whatchinthewheels, you don't like the imitrex idea AT ALL, it scares me too when he uses it, because he has a family with heart conditions everywhere ... especially people dropping dead in their mid-fourties .... and he's 46 ... :( :( :( ... I try to think of that as little as possible. I went home too early from work, and finally found out he had been doing pretty much okay during the day, only light attacks during the day luckily (he had no internet today and didn't wanna call ... I wish he HAD). I suppose since it has gotten slightly better we better not dose again right away, I got word from Pink about the dosing too and Flahs here replied, so thanks folks (again). We knew it could be tough with this mushy stuff, I know I know, but what else to do??? It's better then 13 weeks of suffering and a good chance he's getting chronical, I'm not waiting to see THAT happen. I still kept a dose of the mushrooms in the fridge, I will wait a bit to see how things go tonight and if necesary I will dose again and up the dose until he goes la-la-la ... a bit. I hope he'll be [smiley=me&mb.gif] and not [smiley=argue.gif] . Well never mind that, we just have to get through this! If we do, I'll wave the flag and put up the Christmas tree. Watchinthewheels, I'll send Pink's email over to ya', perhaps there's something in it for you too. I hope you don't mind Pink, these two seem a bit similar, don't they. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 3rd, 2003, 6:22pm on 12/03/03 at 12:38:49, HannahFroukje wrote:
Feel free to pass along my email anytime. We're all in this together Hannah. Good luck Remmie...;-) I'm glad to hear things settled down a bit Hannah. I think that its necessary to take enough (for a cycle as stubborn as this one especially) of a dose that will produce some hallucinogenic effects. I also think Jos should increase things slowly as Flash advised. I believe that once Jos gets to that magical point (something over a #1 on that trip level list) he will feel a "draining away" effect. I don't think he's reached that yet. Follow along as we discussed and hopefully soon he'll be able to get to a more effective dose. I'm still expecting to hear the clapping sound of wooden shoes dancing around the Christmas tree. I also expect that the only person (thing) Jos will be dancing with, is YOU. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 3rd, 2003, 10:32pm Quote:
Hannah,boy do I feel for ya.Jos sounds like he is taking a real beating.I can finally comb my hair without my scalp hurting. Anyway I think you have a misconception of what a shroom trip is.The chances are even if Jos took 3 grams he would not even realize he was trippin until after the trip,if he has never tripped.It is not a physical thing at all.He is not going to be argumentive,stumbling or jumping around.In fact it is very difficult to detect that someone is tripping. I don't know enough about why shrooms work for CH's but from 1987-1999 twice a year I got my ass kicked.I have been sick on ALL the meds,strung out like a zombie. Now in 2003 I get hit with a cycle and along comes Pink,Flash,Flounder and the gang with this fix for my head.I'll be dammed if it did not get rid of the cycle,shrooms!!! I did not follow the rules about Trex by the book,I could not take the pain.One thing I did follow was wait until the receptors were open again in my brain (3-4days) before redosing,and when I had that window open hit the shit out of the beast.What is worse than a CH nothing!!What did I have to loose nothing!! I truely feel the people that will have sucess with the shrooms are going to be the people that believe that the feeling of a trip does not go hand in hand with a CH.It is hard to explain,just like you can't explain a trip,it's all in the mind thus the old saying "Iv'e been there man". When you reach a certain level of a trip it's as if you can feel the preasure flow out of your head,after a few flushings it's over, is the best I can explain it. The hardest part is making it through the 3-4days between doses.Remember when the door is open it's all or nothing,once the receptors start to close,if you did not get enough in it's 3-4days of hell till you can try again.This is why myself,the way I see it is make sure if anything that I have more than enough Psilocybin going through the door because I concluded already that there is NOTHING worse than a CH. I pray you and Jos find the way,and all other sufferers also find the way,it takes an open mind. Peace PF BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 4th, 2003, 12:35am on 12/03/03 at 22:32:08, BT wrote:
This is one of the hardest things for me to explain. It's the antithesis of explaining cluster pain to someone that has never experienced it. It's nothing like the relief you feel from imitrex or anything else. Nothing like the pain leaving with the help of 02. Imitrex, or DHE often leave a feeling of just covering up the attack...still a residual "full" feeling in the head. The 02 makes it fade away. It's not even the same feeling as when it ends on it's own. But, that draining (flushing) feeling you describe, left my head feeling more "released" and depressurized than even the times between cycles. That feeling was what convinced me the very first time I tried this, that it was not like anything I had ever tried before and the relief was coming from somewhere a little "deeper" than anything before. It was honestly as if, had I tilted my head sideways, the cluster would have drained out my ear and i could have filled up a cup with it and thrown it away with the evening trash.(no that wasn't some hallucination I had. I never got past the "giggle" stage) PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 4th, 2003, 2:18am Wow PF, I couldn't figure out how to explain it but you did it beautifully! I'm going to copy that and hang it on my wall ;;D. Sorry I haven't posted in a couple days but my computer went haywire and I finally got it cleared up. BT, I'm there with you Bro. Don't it feel great! Happy Holidays to you and your family. [smiley=laugh.gif] Hannah and Remnant, Hang in there. I know it's hard and nothing pains me more than to see people struggling with this treatment. I too feel that in order for this treatment to be effective you have to feel the effects of the shrooms. I have tried small doses where I didn't feel the effects, with little results. I have also done large doses that put me out there. I have found that for me a medium dose gives the same beneficial effect on my ch's as a large dose. I have had no negative effects from a large dose on my ch's. In the right setting a level 2 dose, 1 1/2 to 2 gms, is the best way to go. This can be quite enjoyable in the right setting. I don't want for anyone to do something you are uncomfortable with, all I can do is tell my story in hopes it helps others. I can't say how good it feels to see someone succeed in this as Clusterhead and BT have recently. I wish that for everyone that tries this treatment. There have been few that I know of that have not had beneficial effects from it. Keep us posted on your progress and thank you, this is all valuable information for the improvement of this treatment. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 4th, 2003, 3:06am Hi folks Thanks for all the input. I guess we need someone to hold our hand right now ... sorry :-[. Yesterday I did give him (literally) just a little sip of the mushy-water during attack. He did have one big attack after that, and then I very quiet night, which is A-OK. ;;D. Now he´s still NOT feeling happy, in fact he feels like a 100-year old back from a skee-vacation with his 20-year girlfriend having to bongo-bongo all night (for the record: I´m 38 [smiley=laugh.gif]) .... he can hardly walk up the stairs. But we know we have to try and hang in there and try to make it to Sunday on as little mushroom as possible, and then I will try and kick him up to cloud 9 as good as possible [smiley=inlove.gif] [smiley=inlove.gif] [smiley=inlove.gif]. I understand the "draining" story, this is something I would wish for him. When he´s in attack, sometimes I get this feeling of "Oh, I would wish his skull would have a hole in it, so it could flow OUT of there, whatever it is". I even dreamt once that his nose would suddenly plop open and half a bucket of dirt flew out. Discusting I know .... but it just feels like something SHOULD drain out of there. [smiley=huh.gif] In the meantime, we´re just trying to be positive, we ´ve put up the Christmas tree, and are focussing on that if it´s all done with, we´ll light up the lights, and put in all the decoration, and oh well ... we´ll just trying to get through it. I hope we make it until sunday, and I hope by then he will have all his "windows" open, will keep you all posted. I wonder how Remnant is doing??? I´ve been thinking about you, keeping my fingers crossed. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 4th, 2003, 3:21am I just got here. 6 pages later. I don't have the where-with-all to read 6 pages of posts and I apologize for that. So if this question has already ben asked please forgive me. I live in California. The only frigging State where the spores are illegal. Now what.???? LindaH |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 4th, 2003, 4:16am It´s almost christmas. Drive to another state, take one of these straw circles with you, and be creative, making something with dried or fresh mushrooms (very decorative), straw, leaves, glitters ... the lot. At home, get the mushrooms out, and put them on a nutricious feeding ground. Then grow your own, shouldn´t take that long. There should always be some spores in fresh or dried mushrooms to be able to grow one or two .... isn´t that so??? (guys?) There´s lot´s a people here willing to give you advice on how to grow them or where to get them in another state. Then if they catch you with your mushroom Chrismas thing ... you can always very well go like [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif], I didn´t know these Christmas things were illegal??? I wanted to hang this on my door, not EAT IT??? |
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Title: Hi AllRe: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 4th, 2003, 4:31am Hi all I tried to e-mail you Hannah but I think the computer must be suffering too!!! I don't seem to be able to send. Thanks for Pinks e-mail it did help. ;) After Wednesday night, probably with worst night so far, he was hit three times during the day yesterday :( :(. They do seem to have changed though, still high kip value 8's and 9's but only lasting a short time, maybe 15 - 20 mins. He didn't want to close his eyes last night, wanted to stay up and talk, He's SO SCARED!! He did go to sleep eventually and was hit by 2, again strong but only short. Left him to sleep this morning and about 20mins ago I heard him screaming, he's walking the bedrooms, still screaming oh God this is just the pits, just when you think you're making it the BASTARD comes back. I still have hope, but then again I'm the pain free one, easy isn't it, not sure Gerard can cope though, more talk of Meds last night. How was Jos last night? Thanks to you all for the support x The Remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 4th, 2003, 8:21am The draining description was the best I have heard yet (with the flushing it out thing). I actually experienced the same thing when I broke my cycle and likened it to a major decompressioning like when landing in an aircraft but 10 times more relieving and all at once. Then BAM....clarity and a feeling, a knowing that you have just exorcised the demon. Incredible feeling for sure. I agree with the kicking it up a notch if things are not working for you. You will know when you have reached the point of "drainage" as there is no other feeling like it. Hate to say it but during a cycle it feels better than any sex I have ever had. About the Christmas tree thing in the Netherlands.....I read somewhere that certain areas up there actually hang the trees upside down from the ceiling?!?! True or just a myth. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 4th, 2003, 4:42pm Help you lot, O.K. done everything we've been told, waited five days (twice) not done too much at a time, just enough for giggles and he's getting more headaches, o.k. not so strong sometimes but then others are off the bloody scale. Do we do what B.T. suggests and blast the beast or just carry on. We can redose on Saturday and I think it will work given time, it seems to have worked for most people, but as I keep saying i'm not the one with pain. Some advice would be great ;) Hannah, I e-mailed you today but I'm still not sure if it's sending, hope all is well, tell Jos were thinking ab out him (and you) The remnant |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 4th, 2003, 5:31pm Hi watchingthewheels Nope, didn't get email. Not in PM's and not in hotmail-box. Darn!!! Try this one: josmartinot@chello.nl Perhaps that one will work? Would love to get a mail from you. Did you get my PM? Good luck in the meantime. We're doing 50/50 ...... Hannah |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by fjleonard on Dec 4th, 2003, 7:37pm I just want to chime in and say a very big note of thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread already!!! Obviously I hit a nerve when I posted the original note....some incredible experience and successes being shared!! I'm currently using Verapamil & Imitrex for the first time and they are working for me (YEAHH!!! amazing!!), in fact have been PF for 10 days now with the exception of occassional shadows and a couple of evenings of "whole head pressure". So for now I will continue on the verapamil for another 3 months which should cover this episode. However....I am not real keen on continuing to rely on meds that imho are "questionable" at best (due to their potential side effects) (I got burned REALLY bad with prednisone and Lithium a long time ago...) Soooo.....since it appears to me from these conversations that the "best" results seem to be occuring by using the shrooms "between" cycles....I will think I will plan on taking the shroom route about 3-4 months after what would be the end of this episode, as that would typically be about mid PF cycle for me. I plan on doing this in hopes that my "next" episode will not ever come.....assuming that is the case, my plan will be to repeat the shroom treatment on a 6 month regime for at least several years....and then....??? Of course this all depends on all the stars lining up so to speak, and the beast not getting smart enough to change it's tactics on me. Although it will be several months.....I will be certain to post my results or any significant changes to this board in the hopes that my results will help others even a fraction of what everyone elses contributions have already helped me. Anyhow....in expectation of success, I want to REALLY thank everyone who has and continues to participate in this thread and others like it. In the absence of "sanctioned" research, this is about as close as I think you can get....and hopefully will lead us all at some point to real remedies for this monster!! To all those still battling....my heart goes out to you....I know only as another Clusterhead could possibly understand what you are going through.....hang in there, and DON'T EVER GIVE UP!! PF eternity to all!! Joe (going back to "lurking" mode now....<grin>) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 4th, 2003, 11:37pm Linda, You've got mail. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pinksharkmark on Dec 5th, 2003, 12:27am Hmmm. I guess I should check in here a bit more often. A lot of interesting reports lately! I don't want to try to reply to each individual message and question at this late stage in the thread, but here's my take on some of the issues raised already: 1) dosage weight: It is almost impossible to give a standard dosage by weight, either for wet shrooms or dry shrooms. The variation in potency of different batches varies enormously, as does the sensitivity to psilocybin of various people. The idea is to take enough so that there is no mistaking the fact that you have taken a powerful hallucinogen -- at the minimum this means taking enough to reach a solid Level One trip, and in my opinion it is better -- much better -- to hit a solid Level Two. I can just hear you all saying, "Okay, pinksharkmark... but how many grams does that mean?" The answer is -- there is no answer. Some people can take two (dry) grams of a given batch of mushrooms and have a Level One trip. Others will take two grams from the same batch and have a Level Three trip -- and that's from the same batch. Next batch you buy could end up being half as strong or twice as strong. So that's another complicating factor. Hey, I didn't say this was easy. From the sounds of things, Hannah, Jos is far from these levels. It could very well be that the small amounts he is taking are enough to disrupt the normal course of the CH without really ending the cycle. My advice would be to take enough to end up somewhere between a Level One and a Level Two. If that doesn't work, increase the dose enough to produce a solid Level Two. Flash and I have different opinions on the dosing question. The dosing regimen that Flash recommends works great -- for Flash. It doesn't work well for me. I am a firm believer in the idea of hitting The Beast a solid punch right from the start, and continuing to deliver solid blows until he gives up. I believe that in this treatment, underdosing is worse than overdosing. Note that I do not mean you need to take multiple Level Four or Level Five trips (or even Level Three, for that matter) in order for this to work. But I think that pissing around with little Level "One-Half" doses every five days is counter-productive for many people. It draws out the process unnecessarily. Now, If we could just take an Imitrex shot every time things got rough with the assurance that it wouldn't screw up the psilocybin therapy, it wouldn't matter if the process drags on longer than it has to -- we could still dodge the pain with Imitrex. But we have no such assurance, and a lot of testimony from a lot of people that Imitrex does interfere with the process. It does for me -- I know that for a fact. So since we can't (or shouldn't) use Imitrex during treatment, and have to somehow deal with whatever pain remains if the first dose doesn't kill the cycle instantly, my goal is to end the cycle as quickly as possible -- which means in my case using decent-sized doses. A side note -- to be fair, I must report that several people have had success with psilocybin even though they have broken the Imitrex detox rules, but these people are in the minority. 2) dosage frequency: Somewhere earlier in the thread, someone quoted a long passage about psilocin molecules "shutting the door". I am quite familiar with that passage, as I was the one who wrote it. Since the time I wrote it (around two years ago), however, I have read a lot more reports from both CH experimenters and from "recreational" users of psilocybin, and I now believe that for many people the "shutting the door" effect is less pronounced with psilocybin than it is with LSD. I also now believe that for many people the doors "reopen" a lot earlier after the relatively low doses we clusterheads use. Bottom line, I believe that the 5 day wait between doses (except for Level Three and higher doses) is in many cases not necessary. I believe that if you are having an extremely tough time of it while waiting for the next dosing period, it is far better to tuck a piece of dried shroom under your tongue or even take a small dose of tea than it is to reach for the Imitrex injector. I also now believe that most people can successfully dose every 72 hours if necessary. Undoubtedly some cannot, but I swear to you on a stack of bibles that if I were getting pounded as badly as Jos (for example) was while waiting to dose again, I'd say "the hell with it" and dose again early. More to come.... pinky |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pinksharkmark on Dec 5th, 2003, 12:33am It occurred to me that not everyone here may know what I'm talking about when I refer to "Level One" and "Level Four" trips. Here is as good a description as I have come across to gauge just how strong the dose ie that you take: Level 1 This level produces a mild "stoning" effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colors, etc). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound "wider". Level 2 Brighter colors, and some subtle visual anomalies (i.e. things start to move and breathe), some 2 dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in creativity becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed. Level 3 Very obvious visual distortions: everything looking curved and/or warped, patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or "mother of pearl" surfaces. Closed eye images become 3 dimensional. There is some confusion of the senses (i.e. seeing sounds as colors, etc). Time distortions and "moments of eternity". Level 4 Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. (Things start talking to you, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously). Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and e.s.p. type phenomena. Blending of the senses. Level 5 Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived ceases to exist. Satori enlightenment (and other such labels). More to come..... pinky |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pinksharkmark on Dec 5th, 2003, 1:04am Okay... back to the question on everyone's mind... just how much should I take? In an ideal situation, you should have a fairly decent quantity of mushrooms from the same batch on hand before starting this therapy. First dose should be in the range of 1.5 grams dry -- or 12 to 15 grams wet. I should make clear that all of these numbers refer to Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. In Europe this species is often erroneously referred to as Stropharia cubensis. There are other species which are stronger. "Liberty Cap" mushrooms (Psilocybe semilanceata) are a bit more potent than most P. cubensis strains, and there are other species (Psilocybe caerulescens, Psilocybe mexicana, Psilocybe azurescens, Psilocybe cyanescens, Copelandia tropicalis and others) which are considerably more potent than either Liberty Caps or cubensis, but they are rarely encountered. Okay... back to dosages. For the vast majority of people, a dose of 1.5 dry grams of average potency cubensis is not enough to produce more than a Level Two trip. I can't think of anyone reporting anything more than a Level Three trip from that amount, and even then it would be just a few highly sensitive individuals who happened across some extremely potent cubensis. For this reason, I believe that the first dose of an unsampled batch of Psilocybe cubensis should be in the range of 1.0 to 1.5 dry grams. Compare the results you receive with the chart listing the effects of the various Levels, decide whether your first dose produced "less than Level 1", "halfway between Level 1 and Level 2", "solid Level 1", or whatever -- then adjust subsequent doses accordingly. Don't worry that someone posting here is taking 7 dry grams and getting a mere Level 1 trip from it, or that someone else is taking 1.5 grams and getting nice Level 2 trips -- none of that means a damn for you and your own personal batch of mushrooms. All that matters is that if you took 1.5 grams (for example) and barely felt a thing, then the next time you dose from the same batch of mushrooms you should increase your dose. A safe rule of thumb would be to increase your dose by fifty per cent if you were just barely at a Level 1 and were aiming for a Level 2 trip next time around. The only time I would increase by more than fifty per cent is if the first amount you chose produced almost no noticeable effects at all (less than a "Level one half") in which case I would double the weight of the next dose. Note that this process should be repeated with each new batch of mushrooms you obtain. Just because it took (for example) three dry grams of mushrooms from the first batch to reach a nice "Level 1.5" trip doesn't mean it will take three grams from the next batch. It might take significantly less. It might take more. It might be exactly the same amount. Until you actually sample that new batch, you have no way of knowing for sure. Okay... I'm typed out for tonight. I'll try to check in more frequently for the next little while. pinky |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 5th, 2003, 1:08am Hi all Well, finally I saw a smile on my husband's face again. :) (I edited this a bit, it wasn´t very well explained what we did) After our last dose of mushies things went the wrong way, Jos had a kipper 10 twice, couldn´t make it through the 2nd, and used imitrex, then stuff went MORE the wrong way. So we did what PinkFl suggested and gave him little sips of mushroomwater to cool things down. That seemed to help, it looks like it brings back the effect of the whole trip (could be???). What I did was cook water, put some of the mushies (take 1,5 grams perhaps) in a blender, you get GREEN water (yuck!), put this in the boiling water (off the stove). leave it for half an hour. He had several attacks after the imitrex and took sips of this green water twice, perhaps 2 x 3 sips (on two attacks). This is perhaps 0,05 grams of mushies [smiley=laugh.gif] but it helped to get us back on track. Yesterday evening only two mild attacks, and ... more important ... during the night only two mild ones too! Pffeeewie ... now if we can only make it like this till Sunday, to make sure the windows are open, and yes, then we'll kick the hell out of that beast. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 5th, 2003, 1:30am on 12/05/03 at 01:08:57, HannahFroukje wrote:
The smile heard 'round the world. Here's hoping there's plenty more where that came from!! PF Face piles of trials with smiles It riles them to believe That we perceive The web they weave.... And keep on thinking free!!!! {mb's} |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 5th, 2003, 10:43am Hannah hang in there.If you can make it till Sunday you will be in good shape.I don't think sipping on this tea is going to help though.I know it will mess with the receptors in Jos's brain and could make Sunday a waste. If you go back to pages 2-3 of this thread and read the frustration I was going through,it is very similar to yours. One thing I would consider is eating the shrooms straight up.The tea is ok but again you are not sure how much Psilocybin is actually making it into Jos's system. I would sit him down with 3 grams of dried and have him just munch them up and then drink at little water after,nothing else for at least 1 hour. At this point with the shrooms you have been giving him the 3 grams is really only going to have the effect of maybe 2 grams to someone who has not had any. You must have faith it works! Once you get a grip on the beast the fungi will knock him out.I found it takes several doses to break the cycle.I did an insurance dose last night to keep the flushing process going. I am PF for almost a week now and feel no signs of the beast at all. :o Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Dec 5th, 2003, 1:56pm I agree with BT. My first dose was 3.5 g of cracker dry material eaten straight-up. I just chewed them into a pulp and held them under my tongue for as long as I could stand the taste. My cycle was in full-swing at the time of my first dose and was all but finished within a couple of days. I did have two relatively mild attacks with a few days though. I followed the initial dose with two seperate doses of 1.75 g of the same material, waiting the recommened five days between each dose. I've now lost track of when I had my last attack, and I believe that I am now in total remission. I plan on enjoying a couple of beers this weekend. If I don't get an attack, I'll know for sure that its over. Good luck to Jos. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by tommyD on Dec 5th, 2003, 5:17pm I wouldn’t say the small sips of tea are necessarily a bad idea. Some have found by putting a small piece of shroom under the tongue and sucking like crazy, they can abort an attack. And aborting several attacks this way seems to build up a cumulative preventive effect. The doses didn’t seem to interfere with each other, maybe because they were so small. This is called the SPUT technique. There have only been a few to try this, and it seemed to have worked for them, but it’s too early to make any promises... If you’re worried about interfereing with the main theraputic dose, try to have Jos use the sips or the SPUT only when he feels he must, and try to lay off as you get close to the planned dose. You want an abortive to get to work as soon as possible. If using the sips of tea have him try to hold and swish it in his mouth as long as he can stand it to get the psilocybin into the system quickly. I’m waiting - yeah can’t wait! - for my cycle to come around again so I can try the SPUT technique myself. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 6th, 2003, 12:21am Help Anyone……….. Purchased some Ecuador spores on the internet today. Plan on trying the mycobags. Question is which substrate to go with. Is the grain based substrate the correct one to purchase for the Ecuadors? Thanks, Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 6th, 2003, 2:18am on 12/06/03 at 00:21:03, hootchdom wrote:
Haven't used the bags and am not even sure which types of substrate they offer. I've always used the vermiculite and brown rice flour mix in the PF tek...jars. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 6th, 2003, 6:19am on 12/05/03 at 17:17:32, tommyD wrote:
Yes, we tried a little piece of shroom too but that didn't work. That's why I blended the shroom into boiling water (off stove), had that stand for 30 minutes, left mushrooms IN and gave him sips of that, but just as much as he needed to take the heat off the attack, no more. We used it as little as possible. What's SPUT-technique anyway? Saving Pieces Under Tongue? Sorry for Putting Utterly Tacky-stuff-under-your-tongue? Or Suck Pieces Up Technique? Anyway, with us it didn't really disturb anything. Well, at least it looks that way. Tonight the whole cirkus started again, three big ones, found him screaming downstairs ... could hardly keep him off the imitrex, tried sips, did work a little, but it was clear we need another dose. Well, we lasted four days this time, so that's okay. Made the same horrible stuff as for the sips: took at least 4 grams of mushroom, probably 5 grams, didn't make actual tea but left the mushroom IN; to make sure he would get the whole lot. We had to kick the beast HARD this time and I was scared too that the sips would have locked some windows. He drank it pretty quick to make sure all was in and started to work at the same time. After 15 minutes he said: "Oh well, this is no good either, I don't feel a thing". I said the effect would only come up after half an hour and that he had drunk enough to have an eliphant trip, so let's wait a bit (massaged his sore back in the meantime). After half an hour he got a bit sleepish, ... or should I say sheepish ;;D ;;D ;;D. He still said "It's no good I don't feel a thing". After 40 minutes he had to go to the can ;;D, so he tried to get up and then suddenly got the giggles, started giggling and couldn't stop. He couldn't walk either, and had lost any control over his arms, so I had to kinda drag him to the toilet and prevent him from falling on his face. He was giggling all the time, kinda cute ;;D. Nothing too bad though, but it's a bit awkward he can't use his hands, he sais it feels like they don't belong to him ... but at the same time he feels like he couldn't care less hee hee, we sure kicked him high up in the sky with diamonds this time [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif], what ya' mean I don't feel a thing, huh. The rotten thing was, ofcourse, he got pretty nauseaus of all this mushroom stuff, he was already feeling a bit sick when we started it this morning. He didn't keep it all down, but most of it though. Enough to get him high pretty good ;;D. He drank the whole lot around 08.30 and now it's 12.30 and he's still on a pink cloud drifting around helpless without any arms and legs (oops). He's got a headache, and his nose and eye hurt, and especially his neck. Oh by the way, no draining sensation. He said he did feel something like it, but it wasn't much and he doesn't feel now like his head has been "emptied" at all, still a lot of pressure inside. Would that mean we would have to repeat AGAIN? I will get a bad rep. in my town for needing all these mushrooms. PS I sure don't hope there's heavy attacks coming soon, because it's Sat and we're clean out of oxygen! [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 6th, 2003, 6:51am Hootchdom, I tried the bags before moving onto the PF method and had pretty good success with the grain substrate. First attempt was contaminated but I believe it was in the spores. Second attempt produced some serious flushes BUT with the amount of substrate in those bags it took about three times as long to colonize as a pf jar. If done properly the bags are a good way to go requireing almost NO preperation not to mention they are in a micro environment (humidity levels and air flow valve) that is ideal for growth. You do not even need to birth them as the shrooms will grow right in the bag. Good luck, hope this helps. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 6th, 2003, 9:40am Hannah way to go! Now hang in there.I never heard of anyone disconecting from there arms but oh well :D.Chances are he is now going to get hit,but the process has begun. I had pressure after the first dose like you would not believe.Then I had to ride it out as best I could.This is when I had to hit the Trex,but for some reason the beast started to subside. Jos is in a cycle very deep like I was.I still feel very small CH's but would not even call them K1,just enough to know that the beast is still a threat,it freaks me out. Maybe these are the last gasps from the son of a bitch I don't know,but it is still PF. The draining effect did not happen until the 3rd strong dose for me.I hope it is quicker for Jos,but it will happen now that you are not affraid of the shrooms.As far as the people in your town,let them see your poor husband under attack,that will open there eyes! After 3 days hit him again the same way and at that point YOU WILL see the power of the fungi....for sure! Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 6th, 2003, 2:17pm Well it's not gone yet, that's for sure :(. Late this afternoon, still wobbly in the legs after his trip, he got hit again, very mild, kip 2-3 but it was definately there. This evening again. We are fearing to go into the night without oxygen. I'm afraid he won't last long on a kip 8-10 tonight, he 's so exhausted, he is getting into the stage that he just can't take it anymore, also the stress of not knowing what to expect is hard on him. He keeps asking me what I think he could expect, but honestly I don't KNOW either! I bet tonight sips of mushroom water wouldn't have any effect, because it's too close after the trip. This is the 4th time we dosed, we should get some effect now, shouldn't we? First time 0,5 gram, second time 1,1 gram, third time 1.6 grams, and now BAMMMM 4-5 grams. If this beast won't play dead, we'll just hit him HARD again as soon as possible. Jos won't last much longer. I'm surprised it's still not over yet. He used to have cycles of 6-8 weeks, we're in it for 9,5 weeks now. The last cycle took really long, 13 weeks, and we feared he would get chronical. When I look at how he is reacting to the mushies now, I would say he is not even close at end of cycle now. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 6th, 2003, 3:48pm on 12/06/03 at 14:17:29, HannahFroukje wrote:
Hi Hannah and Jos, I can understand your disappointment. I know its easy for me to say, being thousands of miles away from the situation, but don't give up yet on the treatment. IMHO, the only way that we know when we are in a chronic cycle, is after we've already lived through it for a year. That doesn't mean, in my opinion, that it wasn't a chronic cycle the very first week of the headaches. I think that chronic cycles and episodic cycles are two very different stages of the same disease and a chronic's neurological system just can not reset itself anymore like an episodic's can. So, we're dealing with a different set of "rules." This is not to say that Jos *is* in a chronic stage, or the beginnings of one, just that we are all dealing with a slightly different set of ongoing neurological processes. Similar differences can be seen all the time with all the medications we use. There is no magic number of the dose of Lithium, Verapamil, Topamax etc, where cluster sufferers in general all find relief. All that said, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the first three doses Jos took can not be compared to the first three doses that anyone else takes. All we can do at this point is compare how we react to each dose. Jos' first three were mild, when you compare "results" instead of the "size" of the doses. Hopefully they proved to help set up for "the kill" of this cycle and helped to make this 4th dose more effective. That's something, unfortunately, that we won't know for sure for at least a couple of days. In all actuality, this last dose was possibly the first one to really "reset" anything. I know Jos' would like to know exactly what to expect in the way of future attacks, their intensity, their frequency but it's impossible to tell at this point. *I* still fully expect this cycle to end soon, but as to how intense or how soon the next singular attack will take place, I wish I could tell you. I'm sorry I can't. On a positve note, as minor as it may seem, at least now there is some question as to what and when the next attack will take place. There has been some changes in the attacks. Before starting this process, I think Jos was pretty sure when and how bad the next attack was going to be. At least now some of them are shorter and less severe than he would have expected. At least it appears, from your posts, that "some" progress has been made. I (as do most of the people here) know that feeling of total exhaustion. Some of that is from the attacks themselves causing a physical wearing down of the body. Some of it is from the mental exhaustion that takes place. Some of it may be from a "hangover" feeling from the last dose. I would suggest, as difficult as it may seem, to take a little break and take Jos out for a walk. Get some fresh air. It may seem counter-productive based upon the physical exhaustion but can serve him well I think with the mental aspects of dealing with this situation. I know how we all try to cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and build walls around us. I think this weakening of our resolve in our ability to win the battle, only serves to make matters worse and continue to feed that downward spiral. Don't lose hope yet. You may be nearer to the end of the cycle than it appears. I hope you're reading this after 6 or 8 hours of sleep. I would suggest a brisk walk outside at the first sign of a shadow or cluster since you are without 02, especially if the air outside is cold. Slow deep breaths (for Jos, not you ;) ), stopping to rest when necessary. P.S. don't forget to get dressed if it's one of those night time strolls. ;) Best of luck. We may be spread out all over the world, but you're not alone. We'll all be walking with you. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 6th, 2003, 5:59pm I'll be sleeping with my hiking boots on tonight ;;D jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 7th, 2003, 12:55am Hi guys Ugghh, this was a tough night. We hit the beast hard, and it hit us right back too. It's not totally different though from the other doses, it was just ... ehm ... tougher. Yesterday he's been PF for most of the day, that was longer then with the other doses (the first one we had a long PF I think don't remember clearly now) and then after the mild ones he had in the evening, he experienced (again) one of these very MEAN and FILTHY attacks, such an attack that just won't go away, it yo-yo's back and forth, disappearing completely then returning completely, until it was driving him (and me) NUTS. He had two of those big yoyo ones, and it left us both exhausted, angry, pissed of and crying from frustration. He hardly ever reaches the point that he will actually cry, but tonight he did. And me too. Sometimes he will shout "go away", "go away" when he's in pain, I almost felt the same urge this night, to shout with him, it felt like his head was invaded by a burning monster that stuck on him like clue. It took from about 23.00 till 14.30 off-on-off-on-off-on until it was finally over, I had gone to bed somewhere inbetween because I was falling over myself, and it appeared to be gone, all was quiet again, ... then I hardly slept 10 minutes and it started again, or went on, whatever. HE GOT THROUGH IT WITHOUT IMITREX THOUGH I was ready to give him the shot myself, but he didn't touch it :o :o :o. Thanks for the encouragement Pink, I will forward that to him, he needs it :'(. For a positive note ... after this horror fest, he went back to sleep and woke up with only a shadow at 17.00 o'clock. Even better: he says his head feels kinda clear now, and he even looks kinda "fresh". We are definately NOT stopping here, no way Pink, we're going to pull this through and kill this beast. Jos is not thinking about stopping eather. He might have be thinking about killing himself in the meantime once or twice (not kidding) but he sees it as his only chance to finally get rid of it. It is a struggle, now it is the question who can struggle the longest to be declared the winner. There ARE positive things to tell about these last few weeks! I try to remind him as often as I can and as often he can bear it to listen to all my yappy positive thoughts, but sometimes he even believes me (and you all). I keep forwarding and translating your stories, I've forwarded all of BT's struggles, the lot, that HELPS him, really! And when anyone's giving him advice, I will translate that too. So we're GONNA get there, but it's not very pretty in the meantime. Well ... he has been PF from 02.30, and it's 06.50 now, so that 's a beginning, isn't it? Thanks all for the encouragements, and ... hey ... thanks for the oxygen offers in The Netherlands :-*, he ended up sucking all the remainders from three bottles, hardly any pressure left in it, it didn't do much but it helped just a little. It feels so good to have a place where you can go and VENT ... and get advice. Thanks all. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 7th, 2003, 3:14am We will always be here for you Hannah and Jos. On that you can rely! We are all pulling for you. Things will get better with out a doubt. You’re on the right path, and we are all here pulling for you! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 7th, 2003, 6:56am Thanks Flounder :-*. Stil PF here after our rocky night, it's 13.00 o'clock, he's been PF for 8 hours, not bad. But I'm sure the beast will return. This is not over yet. He's taking a nap now, always in for a surprise then >:( >:( >:(. I think I'll venture into a nap myself, hope I don't have to wake up in 10 minutes again [smiley=huh.gif]. Oh, I would wish he would sleep until Christmas so I get to wake him up with all the presents [smiley=clown.gif][smiley=heart.gif][smiley=heart.gif][smiley=heart.gif][smiley=clown.gif] EDIT: not PF anymore, but not doing badly. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 7th, 2003, 10:42am Hannah now you got the beast on the ropes the longer you can wait for the next dose the better.Try and make it at least 72hours without any Psilocybin. It is the next good dose I think you will see the magic.I know it is hard to think this way with K10's blazing,it was for me but have trust in the fungi. If you get enough shrooms in Jos this next time chances are he will feel the pressure drain.It's like I can't wait for Jos to get some relief,and see you jump for joy! Remember he is not going to get the same effect from 4-5grams this next time,his receptors are definately messed up.I would do a solid 3.5-4 grams just swallowed,I think his arms will stay attached. ;) Hang in there BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 7th, 2003, 10:54am By the way I know it's hard but after the next dose try not to nap.I think it is important to try and get back on a regular sleep pattern.This way you can clock the beast's activity much better.For me he only shows hints when I first get up in the morning and then all is cool.But I am watching him VERY close. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 8th, 2003, 1:14am OK, now it's looking like we're getting somewhere. We've had this feeling before though so I'll be careful. Since dosing new shrooms and trip without arms ;;D ;;D ;;D: * A day of peace and quiet, angels singing in the sky and time to study without being interupted, although husband needs a little help here and there because he's unable to move, use his hands, or his legs. Going la-la-la on the couch. [smiley=inlove.gif][smiley=inlove.gif][smiley=inlove.gif] * One night of hell (but not as bad as the last time we dosed), two big ones that wouldn't go away. Terrible headache afterwards. No sleep. * Next day all real quiet, two attacks lasting 20 minutes, might sound still long but they were kip 2 and they didn't feel "threatening" so he sayd it was a piece of cake. * THIS night just ONE attack, same size and strength, now THAT's were we get interested ..... I slept the whole night through myself, he didn't need any help on the little one, woke up 06.45 [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] ... my first Christmas wish came true one full night of sleep WAUW. What 's most important to my opinion, is that he says he feels different. He feels the attack coming up, but he says he's just sure that it will go away quickly. I ask "why?" and he says that it doesn't feel threatening like they used to feel. He can't really explain. He feels lots clearer in his head, not cristal clear but less foggy and less pressured and less "eaten" (does anyone know what he means? I don't but I don't care as long as he feels okay). This is not going to be our last report I'm sure. But I think we can make it to tuesday now without too many problems and no matter what happens then, we're going to dose again on tuesdayevening and scare him off again hopefully foregood. Thanks for the support we appreciate it so much! BT .... yes, I think 3,5-4 grams will do .... ;;D ;;D ;;D Now when this is finally over I will start looking for something to cure the heart palpitations I seem to have developed over this period. Perhaps a good cuppa of shrooms..... hee hee ::) ::) ::). Tsk, I wish we never have to go through one of these cluster cycles again! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 8th, 2003, 8:10am Although he has had a rough time with it and I do not want to get your hopes up too much but the Clearer less Foggy feeling could very well be a partial "draining". I thought you mentioned a "new" batch of shrooms which may have something to do with it. I know that I recieved different results from different strains and batches. Hoping for the best, Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 8th, 2003, 9:48am Sorry for the interruption, but this is as much fun as watching Iraqi freedom unfold on Fox. WATCHING THE BEAST GET HIS ASSSSSSSSSSSS KICKED !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Dec 8th, 2003, 11:15am on 12/08/03 at 01:14:01, HannahFroukje wrote:
I know exactly what he means ;;D Sound's like he's got the beast on the run. Very 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 8th, 2003, 11:38am HF, Previously Jos was lacking any noticable effect from the shrooms. This indicates that the dose had been too low up until that point, although it was perhaps enough to make a small dent in the episode. This time you took enough to get a very noticable effect. This has certainly made much more of an impact. At this point it is important to wait and see. Do not repeat the dose unless things get worse. Should it be necessary to redose then take a quantity somewhere between the no-effect and the big effect - that should be sufficient. I cannot over stress the importance of the 'wait-and-see' period. This is why I believe that regardless of doors shutting etc it is important to go the 5 days UNLESS there has been no discernable effect from the shrooms. Please also take into account that it is common to get hit for 48 hours after a dose of shrooms. Taking the shrooms starts a little fight with the beast. The beast isn't expecting the shrooms so the first blow from the shrooms hits it hard. Once it recovers it becomes stirred up and angry and hits back as hard as it can. However it may well be fatally wounded and limp off to die within the week. This is typical. However it is possible that the initial knock out blow by the shrooms is so hard that the beast goes down and stays down. The strength of the dose has little impact here, it's more a case of a 'lucky punch'. Keeping beating the beast might just keep it around longer when it really wants to limp off. Wait the 5 days unless things progressively get worse. If they get progressively better then leave it alone. Sit tight! Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ave on Dec 8th, 2003, 2:40pm HF, like Clusterhead I know EXACTLY what feeling Jos was talking about. Yopu feelit and youjust KNOW. It is the ghuuud feeling, it is the "something is gone away" feeling. Here's hoping it stays away. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 8th, 2003, 3:15pm Flash your the man.Mine is in this limp off stage.Today I have not had any pain at all.I don't even know he is there anymore. Can I dose ten days from now for the hell of it or should I stay away from the shrooms,and only dose if I get a shadow? It is very weird while I am typing this stuff I can kind of feel the MFer still there.It has not caused me any real pain to speak of in many days though. Hannah I would listen to Flash but be ready to smash him.You have got the beast on the run.This breaking a cycle stuff is a bitch. My next concern is going on some kind of preventive dose regiment so he stays away. BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 8th, 2003, 3:53pm Hi I'm wondering if anyone out there can help, please. I have been quiet recently because Hannah and I have been PMing each other, but I could do with some advice. We took our third dose of shrooms yesterday, all doses have had an affect, but we tried a stronger dose yesterday, upt it by 10gm (fresh), wanted to knock the beast into oblivion. We have waited the 5 days in between doses though. The same thing is happening again:- Dose with shrooms (Pinkys recipe) good nights sleep, the following day all hell breaks loose, last time an off the scale for five hours!!! then things start to get slightly better, 8's or 9's lasting maybe 10 - 20 mins, he can get anything from 3 to 6 a day of these for the following 3 days, then they get worse again, 9's and 10's up to 30 mins, he is shadowing all the time though. by this time we re-dose! and the cycle starts again. It was our last hope that these things were going to work because he can't take Imitrex because of his heart condition.......... bastard hey! :( :( I think there has been some improvement, but he is so depressed at the moment, you know the thing, " I can't live like this", He doesn't want to go out, scared to meet people incase he has a headache. Can anyone tell me if anything like this has happend to them, and what the outcome was. Thanks for being there. The Remnant ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 8th, 2003, 4:34pm on 12/08/03 at 11:38:02, Flash wrote:
MMMmmm, yes I agree Jos did not have an effect from taking the shrooms, but the effect on his cycle however was very very clear all the time. I still feel like we did ok in starting very low and taking it slow, I feel as if I had given him 4 or 5 grams the first time, it would have been pure hell in reaction to the shrooms. Only guessing ofcourse and I'm not the expert, but I'm not sorry for starting low. We got good effects on the first and second dose I think, and the best on the fourth dose; the third dose didn't really improve things, it was like things got stirred up but didn't improve. Perhaps shrooms were not very good, dunno. Yes, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Overall the effect is good now. The way I see it, the first three doses of shrooms stirred up the cycle seriously, and the fourth one was for the kill ..... Unfortunately it's not dead yet. Today he had a Kip-er one that was too bad for him, he still had no oxygen (he got it this afternoon), and it lasted too long to handle becaue it kept increasing, so after 40 minutes he took a shot of imitrex. That's only his second shot after starting on the shrooms (not too bad though). He feared it would have interupted the shrooms but the rest of the day nothing happened. Then this afternoon a very mild attack again, kip 1 or 2 , that didn't feel threatening at all. We'll see what happens tonight, if the attacks come back we're gonna dose tomorrow. If it's still mild, we'll wait. So with us more or less the same as with Debby, but I can see that everytime we dose the cycle goes down more. I do expect to need at least one more, perhaps two or three more doses. This "counterattack" after the dosing is REALLY difficult though, they can last SO long and are SO exhausting, it just leaves them crawling on the floor with their guts hanging out .... It's like when you hit hard, like a piece of elastic stuff it bounces back and smacks him right across the head, really really hard. And the headache that follows, and frustration off "Ohmygod, NOOOOOO, there it is again!" Well, I've wrought some kind of late birthday present, something funny, just to make him laugh ... I wonder if it will work hee hee ;;D ;;D ;;D. Think it will [smiley=crackup.gif][smiley=crackup.gif][smiley=crackup.gif]. Hope the beast will keep quiet long enough to give him time to unwrap it :-* :-* :-* EDIT .... [smiley=huh.gif] it did not ... another kip 10, he's running up and down the corridor now, crying. God I hate this. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 9th, 2003, 8:37am Calling all cars!!Calling all cars!! What should I do? The MFer is coming back,I think. 12:00 midnight I get hit to about K2 for 11/2 hours.6:00 am I get hit to K2 11/2 hours.Holy shit! My last CH was 8 days ago that had any force.I took a mild dose 6 days ago to finish him off. Now did that last dose just play with him. If another shows up at 12:00 noon do we have a cycle again? Do I blast him if he comes at noon or just sit and see what happens.I feel he is gaining strenght for some reason. Help! :o BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 9th, 2003, 9:17am Bummer BT. You may want to wait for a reply from Flash or Floyd but I would recommend BLASTING the beast as soon as possible. I would not play around with this one as we do not want him to take hold. Hopefully a good knock out punch will put him down and keep him down this time. Bastard just does not know when to stay down apparently. Good luck, Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 9th, 2003, 9:42am on 12/09/03 at 08:37:46, BT wrote:
Personally, I'd dose again. I think the best would be a dose just large enough to get you to a level 1 or 1.5 Don't need to carpet bomb the bastard, just some sniper fire should do the trick. Its easier to tell if things are getting worse if you've been relatively pain free for a week and then you start getting hit again. TIme to redose. For the others here, try to keep a journal from day to day. Its sometimes a more subtle improvement and it's easy to miss a decrease in attacks. If you used to get 5 K10's and you're down to 2 K10s and 2 K5's, and they are lasting a shorter period of time, then there is some improvement and you're going in the right direction. Any k10's makes it difficult sometimes to see an improvement. Hope everyone has a better day.. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 9th, 2003, 10:29am Thanks for the quick reply. Sniper fire it is. 8)On my way to level 1.5 with a few grams of dried fungi..... Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 9th, 2003, 11:10am BT, tough beasts they are, aren´t they?!? I hope you can kill him off nicely this time. Let us know please how you´re doing. I wonder if you would still get a "counter attack" this time???? With us things are going weird. We were sort off planning to dose again today, because he had two kip-9 to 10’s. But in the second half of the night his attack turned into some kind of splitting headache. It looks like something is still struggling inside of him. His headache was so bad, he was sleeping from exhaustion, but still crying from pain in his sleep, and seemed delirious. Because it just wouldn´t fade, still there this morning at around 10 0´clock, I gave him something homeopathic for his muscles and hopefully it would help his head too. I don´t like to mix things up, not even homeoathics, you never know you know …. so I didn´t use any homeopathic so far, except Arnica which is apparently pretty safe on CH, but now he had some clear signs written al over him though that pointed into the direction of this remedy, and I was pretty sure it would give him some personal relief without disturbing the mushies. And luckily it worked, within half an hour he was feeling better, mainly because his neckmuscles and shoulders got relaxed. SO … for the record, he has been technically PF from 03.00 off, but with a splitting headache. I did get mushrooms but still wanna wait with dosing, and see how he comes out of this battle that´s going on inside his body, I don´t think it would be wise to dose now, when stuff is still balancing out. Everytime I am amazed that Wathingthewheels story and ours look so much the same!!! The same kind of headaches, the same kind of attacks, very striking similarities. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 9th, 2003, 1:09pm HF - Taking the trex was not a good idea. Remember that after dosing during a cycle things will often get worse and you must be prepared for this, and able to handle that period without trex. Wait for things to settle down into some sort of pattern before you dose again. BT - Might be best to hit it now before it gets any worse. WTW - It is always hard to abort an episode. Shrooms are about the only thing that CAN do it. Once you break the cycle start using maintenance doses once every 3-6 months to avoid going through this ever again. Maintenance doses are VERY effective at controlling CH. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 9th, 2003, 1:13pm Flash,I hit it right away.As I took the shrooms I could feel the shadow discipate.I think I should be able to keep the MFer at bay.Lets hope so! BT 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 9th, 2003, 1:17pm on 12/09/03 at 13:09:18, Flash wrote:
Yup, you know it, I know it, he knows it too. I guess he reached his limit (which must be pretty high after what I've seen of it). It's his fourth dose and he's yo-yo'd all through the room on maddening attacks, that come and go and last for hours and hours and leave you feeling like sh*t. Ofcourse there's been very good spells too, and very short attacks too, but those counter-effect attacks are really horrible on him, because they are so treacherous. So if he took the trex, I 'd say he just couldn't do anything else. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 9th, 2003, 1:58pm HF - I know Jos is having a tough time of it but is this the first time he has turned to the trex since starting the treatment? Just curious as I am wondering if the trex might be a setback or even retrigger the whole thing by competing or screwing up the receptors. jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 9th, 2003, 3:14pm on 12/09/03 at 13:58:25, jminmilwaukee wrote:
After the third dose he has taken imitrex once, but only after a number of attacks I think. I noticed that taking the trex did screw it up a little, but in the next few attacks (only on the really bad ones) I gave him a few sips of the shroomstuff, and that seemed to pull everything back in order again (just a guess ofcourse, but after that it went the right way again for some time). Now after the fourth dose which he took on Sat., he could make it through the first bad ones in the night that followed, but not that one of mondaymorning. So the shrooms have been able to work for quite some time without being disturbed. Gave him a few sips again of the shroom stuff (just a few). Just in case. The night that followed one real attack, for the rest "only" lots of screaming f****** headaches (excuse me they are really bad .... ). Now he's in a good spell again, let's not forget that.. . He's been doing fine all day, when the headache finally went. He's had a few shadows this evening, but nothing too bad. Still dreading, dreading, dreading the night [smiley=huh.gif] . If tonight is reasonably okay, we're going to TRY and wait another day with dosing, hopefully we can complete 5 days now. I am not expecting our homoepathic stuff will do something on his C-headache, but it does help his muscles to relax, he says that makes all the difference for the "normal" headache, because his neck and muscles are very sore and stiff then, and he's unable to relax then. So that's one point scored for us. I told him next time ,please TRY the running up and down the stairs before you reach the point you feel as if you have to choose between killing yourself or inject. He said he would give it a shot (hey Jos, shoot the beast too, while you're busy .... ;;D). If that helps perhaps we're going to make the 5 days waiting. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 9th, 2003, 3:42pm You know, while I battled the beast with this treatment I did have the occasional shadow / feeling of one coming on. O2 killed em right away 97.2 % of the time (or close to that). I remember you saying No O2 for Jos yet? Can you get some ASAP? jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 9th, 2003, 9:48pm Yes jmin, he got it in the meantime. But with him it really doesn't help on the heavy ones, seems to be countereffective them (stiches stitches stitches). |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 9th, 2003, 11:39pm I have the same thing happen with the shadows and hits as Jmin described and am also able to control it with O2. I have to hit the tank right a way. I usually get four days relatively calm and then I start to feel it creeping in. It took five doses last time and I thought I was going to have to dose again but I did the O2 for several more days and it stopped all together. I still get the tightness feeling that others have described from time to time but there is no pain involved so that doesn’t bother me at all. I hope everyone is doing well tonight! WTW, I know how he feels and sympathize with your situation. I have not had the difficulty that you are experiencing with this treatment so it is hard for me to know for sure what to tell you. I have seen it work wonders so many times that when it doesn’t it's a bit baffling to me. You may want to try a different strain of shrooms. Many will say Psilocybin is Psilocybin but I have had better results with different strains. The other option is LSD. I don't know if you have anyway of obtaining any but I feel it works better on CH's than shrooms. The only reason shrooms have been chosen as the treatment of choice is that they are easy to obtain and produce your own supply. The effects last a bit longer with LSD but it is an option to think about. Just my thoughts! OK, now its time for everyone to kick the shit out of the Beast so we can all get together and have a Party!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 10th, 2003, 3:03am Sorry still not finished with our quest :-/. We came through the night pretty good, although he had two mild attacks one hour (!) apart, then a mean one another hour later. Hit the O2 first, but it didn´t help, then he hit the stairs instead (running up and down for the exercise). Didn´t abort but helped keep the pain down a bit. Hit the O2 again when he was dead-tired from running, didn´t help yet. Ice Ice Ice - water water water - running running running - ice- ice- ice , then running again. Eventually it died down. No imitrex this time, pfffewieh. Oxygen really doesn´t help him when he has his nose blocked. For us it´s a waste of oxygen to use it on the screaming attacks. Went back to sleep, three hours later, on schedual, the next one, but lots milder. So we´re gonna wait around a bit more, see what happens. If things gradually and systimatically get worse, we´re gonna dose again today (our fourth day). |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ave on Dec 10th, 2003, 3:26am We all get the feeling O2 should come in through the nose. I remember at least one posting, though, where people said ot worked just as well through the mouth. If the mask covers both, you may want to try that too. Best of luck en sterkte, hé! Ave |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 10th, 2003, 5:41am Sorry folks he's had it! Last night was the last straw. After a whole day of pain, and I mean 4pm until 9 pm the following day, going from 3's and 4's to 9's and 10's all he wanted was a good nights sleep, BUT THE BEAST WOULD NOT LIE DOWN - IT HAS REALLY PISSED US OFF NOW. 3.30a.m. it comes back BAM a kip 10 just for good measure, lasting over an hour. He put his head down, still with the stabbing of course, and 4.45 a.m. it REVISITED BAM BAM BAM an hour and a half this time. I sat with him whilst he stamped the floor, all the lights in the house shook, and it's a brick built house so it's quite solid. He managed an hours sleep only for another off the F*?*!ing scale attack. I can not put into print what he called the shrooms!!!! He's been PF for an hour and a half now, if you can call it PF with the little sod stabing his eye every two minutes. He has decided to give up. Not much I can do I don't get the pain, but If I could ever get hold of the beast!! If there is a change of mind I will let you know, but I don't hold out too much hope at the moment. Looks like Lithium here we come (my worst nightmare - I'm so scared of that stuff). Thanks to you all. The Remnant (and he really does look like one at the moment) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 10th, 2003, 5:46am [Just saw your post come in. Is melatonine an option for the two of you? Hannah |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by zenerzoo on Dec 10th, 2003, 6:08am Hannah, I've had good results with the o2 By breathing through the mouth. I've got kind of a snorkling routine going. Instead of the mask I just use the hose , in through the mouth and out through the nose. At least I try to exhale through the nose. It seems to take a little longer but it does work for me . Sometimes I get a feeling of suffacation because of the change in breathing, I just remind my self that its pure o2 and I can't suffacate from it. It also help you to relax as you have to concentrate on what your doing. It may be worth a try. good luck and don't give up |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 10th, 2003, 8:25am On the 02 thing, this may sound a bit strange but I found that when the nose is blocked, I get relief from holding the mask in such a way that the flow of 02 "leaks" out of the corner and flows into my eye on the side that is being attacked. ALso, I'm sure you have covered this but is he running a HIGH rate regulater (7 to 10 ml)? The low rate one don't do squat. jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 10th, 2003, 9:40am For the record... I have never taken trex, verapamil, methysergide, ergotamine, lithium, or predisone. I have only used O2 for 1 episode. If these drugs weren't available then we wouldn't be able to taken them, yet we'd still survive the attacks. Green tea and something to eat can often abort an attack if taken at the earliest onset... aside from shrooms those are my weapons of choice. Also recommend avoiding oversleeping even if your sleep is disrupted. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 10th, 2003, 10:12am About the O2 we´ve tried everything (rebreather, non-rebreather, putting the tubes in ice, increasing the flow) but for him it just does NOT help on the bad attacks. It DOES help on the mild ones, but not really as an abortive. Besides, our O2 doesn´t go higher up then 12 liters a minute and that doesn´t seem to do the trick, he needs even more! I will ask him to phone the company and ask if he can get another dosing system, that increases the flow. And we will try the funny tip of having the oxygen float over the eye. You never know.... thanks for all the tips and ideas ... About the imitrex, well what can I say. I´m sure you´re right Flash, and I mean that. But honestly I still can´t blame him for taking it. I´ve explained it before, he gets really WEIRD when it is getting too bad and takes long, he sais weird stuff, like once he ordered me to "go get a container so he could put his head in it", and he keeps asking me all sorts of strange questions about his head, which I can´t understand because he cannot TALK then, he just mumbles. Sometimes then he gets angry because I don´t understand what he means and sometimes he acts like he thinks it is ME who´s torturing him (then it gets tricky ...). I´ve explained all that. When it´s that bad, he cannot THINK, I mean really impossible to think, delirious. As long as he´s able to think, even when it hurts like hell, he´s okay staying of the imitrex. He will try just about anything to avoid it. Well why am I defending myself, I think when he could not have used imitrex ever, he would not be alive today, and I am absolutely NOT exagerating now. He´s tried other meds, never worked for him, nearly killed him and he was sick of feeling groggy, so flushed everything down the drain. Exept the trex. I feel so sorry for watchingthewheels and partner .... this SUCKS!!!!! I wish there was some sort of solution. Perhaps another way of dosing? I almost feel guilty for that with us it seems to be going in the right direction. We´re on our fourth day now, and I received a little email of Jos today (I'm at work) which said : "We´re not going to dose today, I feel pretty much allright, and my feet are warm!!! Only mild attacks, not much". So we want to wait another day to see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 10th, 2003, 11:01am I don't want to jinx myself,but the beast is back at bay.Every six hours like clockwork I get a weird feeling of the beast trying to blast me but it fades.It lasts for a little over an hour. It is similar to what was happening before I took the dose just not as intense. I am going to lay low. 8) PeaceBT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 10th, 2003, 12:13pm BT did you have a "counter-attack" after dosing, or not????? I would really want to know that. And what does "back at bay" mean? That you're winning or losing? (sorry am Dutch). When I am guessing, it sounds good ..... |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by watchinthewheels on Dec 10th, 2003, 12:35pm Your right Hannah "At bay" does mean good, it's gone back to sleep. Well done B.T. Great news about Jos, just because it didn't work for us doesn't mean we're not really really pleased for you. Keep it up Jos. Gerard is still suffering, I just keep thinking maybe it's the beasts last gasp, and then I look at him and think, I don't blame him for giving up. :(. He really is in a mess, and so low. Maybe we will try again when this cycle is over, as a preventative. [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 10th, 2003, 2:22pm Quote:
Yes at bay means a sleep.I am not sure if you would call it a counter attack but I have had some activity in the last 2 days,nothing major. I hit the shrooms pretty good a solid 1.5 level as recomended.It is wacking what activity I had. We had a low pressure on the barometer come in Monday and I think that had something to do with this,it is all that changed.It is going to drop about 25 degrees any minute with a high pressure and stay that way for a long while,it should help put the beast down for good... Good Luck BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Henk on Dec 10th, 2003, 2:45pm on 12/10/03 at 10:12:27, HannahFroukje wrote:
HannahFroukje, sorry that you two are going through rough times :( My 2 cents: I once, on a vacation-trip, had an O2 tank capable of delivering only 4 l/min. Bought some huge plastic bags and some small rope. Blew the bags full with O2, Tied them with the rope. In this way I had enough O2 to tackle one attack. This trick might help you increase the oxygen concentration. Another thing: If melatonine doesn't interfere with Shrooms ( Pinkfloyd, flash: what's our opinion on that?) Jos might try melatonin to help reduce his attacks.... Goog luck to you both! Henk |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 11th, 2003, 12:42am on 12/10/03 at 12:35:46, watchinthewheels wrote:
Sorry to hear things haven't gotten better. I can understand, having been there myself, the complete frustration and exhaustion involved in such a brutal cycle. Here is a suggestion. Please discuss it with Gerard when he's feeling up to a discussion. He may want to consider a very small "daily" dose of shrooms, along with the lithium. The lithium would certainly increase the strength of the psychoactive actions so the dose should be very small. This would be taking the shrooms in a manner similar to that of Sansert. Sansert and psilocybin are very similar in molecular structure. One reason sansert was always prescribed in very small doses (2mg) was to avoid any hallucinations that can be caused by sansert. This has not been tried as of yet to my knowledge, although quite a few people have taken psilocybin in small doses in between the larger doses. This to stay away from the imitrex, without any negative results (reported) and some positive results reported. The addition of the lithium is what I don't have any information on. IF you (or anyone) would consider this, PLEASE write to me directly, beforehand, so we can discuss it and I can bring the question to a researcher/MD that I'm in contact with. Sorry you haven't had success. We'll still be here to help in any way we can, even if you/he ditches the treatment. We're all fighting the same battle and the weapons we choose are the ones we feel are best for each of us. Choice of weapon does not change the depth of committment to help each other. Be well Give Gerard our best, PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 11th, 2003, 12:51am on 12/10/03 at 10:12:27, HannahFroukje wrote:
Thanks for the update Hannah. Sounds like Jos had a good day. Being the 4th day, that is a very good sign in my opinion. Hope you both get a good night's rest. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 11th, 2003, 4:32am on 12/11/03 at 00:51:33, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Nope, still not. Still not going too bad though, but the nights are still hard. It´s getting slightly better though. Tonight a very mild one of 12 minutes and a very very bad one lasting and lasting and lasting ..... Eventually I gave him some of the mushroom water in 4 sips. This was around 03.00 I think. At 07.15 I startled from my sleep myself and found him asleep in a chair somewhere. No attack! He went to sleep on the couch this time. He woke up with a headache 08.15 that was gradually building into an attack, seen that before, so gave him a 2 sips of mushroom water. It just kinda "peaked" short, kip 10 for perhaps 2 minutes, then dying quickly, left him with a headache which is always a good sign so far, because if an attack leaves him with a splitting headache you´re almost always sure he won´t have any more for at least half a day (funny but true). Called work that (again) I would be coming in late. Around 09.15 (so pretty soon) he was able to go to sleep again, left him sleeping on the couch, left for work still worried. We´re STILL going to wait on dosing. Any thoughts on that? To my idea we´re still going the right way basically. Example: we´ve reached the fifth day for the first time, after dosing, without redosing. Yahoo! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 11th, 2003, 5:07am HF - we all get delerious, unable to think, can't remember our names, don't know what's going on, screaming, crying, begging, pleading... Those are common symptoms. That's why we are here. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 11th, 2003, 5:36am I can only say: come visit us when he´s getting violent and delirious. Then please explain to me how I should handle a big strong guy when he´s like that. I´m not exactly big myself. I WON't have him slamm with his head against walls and hurting himself. Still can´t blame him (us!!!) for the trex. (I'm still in the defense corner, gonna leave that now and go on as best as I can). And we´re DOING the best we can! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 11th, 2003, 7:52am Hannah, It is not my place to tell you how to support Jos but I gotta chime in on the issues you are experiencing. My girlfriend (and before her my ex wife) know to leave me be when in a heavy attack. I normally leave the room and pace, bang, sometimes scream and with the worst once sob like a baby. I have made it very clear to anyone around me that when I am in an episode, the best support you can give me is to leave me alone. I know it is difficult as you want to do anything, anything at all that will help but while thrashing through one the last thing you want is someone trying to help. I know this sounds strange but it is just the way it is (for me at least). Gotta tell you also, soemtime banging you head against a wall actually helps also. I have ended up with a very sore temple but I have never heard of anyone causing serious injury to themselves in this manner. Just bruising and a "pleasant" headache. I can tell that you are probably the reason Jos is still with us today and for that I thank you. As one of the lucky ones who has a supporter, you really do not know how much your careing means. Trust me on this one though, during an attack....stay away. After an attack, a neck rub and a hug will do wonders for any CH sufferer. This of course is my persepective and may not apply to Jos, jsut trying to help. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ZAIRA on Dec 11th, 2003, 8:52am on 11/24/03 at 13:58:37, HannahFroukje wrote:
In Italy it is the opposite, if police finds you with some gr. Of drugs your penality is higher than you make a bad thing (like rape for example). It is strange, isn’t it?? My best wishes to you all, Zaira :o |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 11th, 2003, 9:19am Just an update. All is clear no CH's since last dose and feel very clear again.I think it was just a VERY tough cycle and needed to be [smiley=bash.gif]around some more. All hale the power of the fungi!! [smiley=bow.gif] Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 11th, 2003, 12:26pm All Hale, Your spore infiltration sequence is now complete. You are free to move about at will. Carry on. Good news BT ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 11th, 2003, 1:33pm on 12/11/03 at 05:36:58, HannahFroukje wrote:
We know you're doing your best Hannah and understand. You know how I feel about it. And it doesn't make any difference how big you are, you (or anyone) shouldn't try to get between someone in the midst of a cluster attack and whatever it is that he/she is about to take out their frustrations upon. In mid-attack, all reasoning and self control are many times left behind. I know its difficult and sometimes impossible but what Jmin said is usually the best advice. Keeping an eye on things, from a distance, just in case you're needed is often times the best thing. OTOH, not being a supporter myself, I can't imagine the stress and helplessness involved in watching such a display. I otften times was happy yhat I was the one experiencing the pain and not the one that had to sit back and watch helplessly. Maybe it's that reason that I (like most sufferers) prefer to be alone. I agree that the prolonged "stuck" lower grade, headache is probably a good sign. 5 days!!!! Congrats!!! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 11th, 2003, 2:09pm One clusterheadache patient can be very different from another one. I know, I've only known one, but it's one with many faces. What I absolutely don't do while Jos is being hit is: hold him when he doesn't want to be held. Sooth him when he doesn't want to be soothed. Pat him on the back when all he wants is be mad and cry out. I can make a little mistake here and there, but all of you know that you will probably get something flung at your head, either verbal or for real ;;D if you make a mistake. But you know - and this is a positive note- Jos and I are quite a team when "we're" having clusters. He has the pain and terror - I do the rest, or at least I try to. He has learnt by now (after going through 3 long cycles together) that he can trust me. So these days usually he follows my advice blindly when he's being hit. When I say "eat this" he will not question it, he will just stop running for a moment and stick it in his mouth. When I say "drink this" he will do it. When I - like the other day - tell him "GO RUN UP AND DOWN THE STAIS" he will not question me, but blindly do it (and after 10 times running up and down he understood it was something that actually helped). See we've both learnt to get good at this. There have been times in former cycles that he just wanted to be left alone, I couldn't even touch him when he was in pain. He was very self-centered and withdrawn. Basically he still is. But I KNOW now when not to touch him and when to rub his back hard, or soft. And I can actually help him with things, so he can concentrate on releaving his pain by trying to relax. When he says "gawa", I know he means "water", ... when he says "ruwuve", I know he means "backrub". "Hsss" means "ice" and "Andu" means "turn it on" (the oxygen). "uit-uit-uit" means all the lights should be turned off. I don't discuss anything with him, or ask him anything, I just do as he says, but if I want HIM to do something because it might help, I will just SAY it ... and he will do it. I know by now what I can do and what I can't do. Sometimes I do leave him alone in the dark corridor, and sometimes that's better but he seems to like having me at some distance even then, because when I close the door he will start calling me in a short while. I know I cant interfere with how things ARE in a cluster attack especially when it's heavy, but I know too I can sometimes take away a bit of the anxiousness by answering his panicky questions, or rubbing his back, or just telling him (if the time is right) that it will pass, or when his arm gets too tired to hold up the ice-pack, I will hold his arm for him, so he can relax better. During these funny yoyo attacks I can tell him that it is a reaction to the shrooms, that's why it's so weird, and that we've seen that before and that I was sure the next one would probably be a bit better if we could only get through this one. But what I can't do (and won't do) is leave him while hes panicking and let him slam himself into the wall. I understand that some of you (most) want to suffer in silence. But not everyone is the same. I would hate to be left out. I don't like my passive-active role, but it's the best thing I can do for him, so I try to do it as best I can. Oh well .... It's building up again (slowly) now, so we're going to dose again tonight. If anyone would prefer me to please shut up here on this link, just let me know ..... otherwise I'll just keep posting our report for those who are interested and want to try shrooms themselves. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 11th, 2003, 3:27pm Hannah, Don’t you dare stop posting until Jos beast is dead….I know success is right around the corner. I have been following your tribulations and praying for the both of you every day. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 11th, 2003, 3:42pm Thanks for praying for us Hootch, so THAT's what I heard in the air in some nights when we were in despair ;) ;) ;). We've dosed again tonight, but what a bugger .... he didn't notice ANYTHING of the 3,5 grams I gave him (like everyone agreed on I should give him), so I added a bit more after the half hour, he had 5 grams in total, but no effect whatsoever. He could still name the months of the year backwards, calculate and walk in a straight line ... NOT good [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif]. I'm pretty sure they are good mushrooms, and I've mixed two kinds together, so that couldn't be the problem. He's worried now that it won't help and being very much his own moody charming self because he didn't feel anything :-/. Will keep you posted, we have to go into the night now, he's dozing off on the couch already .... How would it go? [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 11th, 2003, 4:24pm on 12/11/03 at 15:42:49, HannahFroukje wrote:
I'm not so sure it didn't do ANYTHING. As a matter of fact, you may be posting a little later that he did eventually notice some effects. Some take longer depending upon what is in the stomach etc.... Even if he doesn't experience any discernable effects, it may be able to build upon what improvements have already begun. Keep the faith. Also, please don't stop posting as there are many people that are following this and we can all learn from the experiences and are concerned. You're latest post about the relationship the two of you have, as sufferer and supporter, was an incredible read and a great post to point to when people ask, "what can I do" Have a good nap!! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by JDH on Dec 11th, 2003, 4:37pm on 12/11/03 at 16:24:47, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Agreed Pink. I've been following this thread since the begining and it has been very informative...can't wait to see how it turns out for all involved. btw, is this the longest thread ever? Keep fighting the good fight guys and keep posting those results. Jim |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Not4Hire on Dec 11th, 2003, 8:36pm ...what you all have said about Hannah continuing to post: I agree-in-spades and in fact, Hannah: if you suddenly STOP posting, *we* will find a way to make sure that you and JOS are okay.... (i'm not ashamed to say that *we* have called the police to intervene when it seems that one of *us* is in extremis this thread is sorta like watching a slow-motion train wreck that I've been in BEFORE... a horrible deja vu ...without the support that you are giving Jos.... ...he is a VERY lucky man to have someone care so much... thank you for sharing.....N4H |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 11th, 2003, 11:13pm I think this has been one of the most informative and inspiring threads here in a long time. I know of several people who are going to try this treatment because of it. I'm sure there are some that have decided that this is not for them also. It will be something to go in the archives for sure. So far there have been over 200 posts. But even more impressive is the well over 3200 views. Hannah, I think you guys have more people pulling for you than you know. Don't stop posting. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((GOOD VIBES)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) to you and Jos! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 12th, 2003, 1:17am This thread has been amazing.We are people fighting some very serious pain here.To all the people that were involved in finding this cure Psilocybin for CH's,I don't have the words to thank you really!! I think that this thread should NEVER die because it just may be the lifeline to the next persons relief.It can not end it is only the beginning. The way it looks there are several variables from case to case.With this in mind it is important to gather as much info as possible for cross refferance. There is very little doubt if any that if you can get some type of grip on your situation, (which can be dam near imposible in mid cycle)you can put an end to the pain with shrooms. Once again thanks BT [smiley=thumb.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 12th, 2003, 2:18am Ok, next update ;). During the night lots and lots of headache, with stitches in eye and nose, starting from 21.15 in the evening (after shrooms) and lasting until now (08.00). During the night one attack, well, if was more of the same feeling that he had all through the night, building up to a kip 4 or 5 perhaps. Lasted an hour. Tried to tell him, this was a lot like last time with the headache and the stitches, and that it was not as bad as then (where he had this big yo-yo-attack BEFORE the night of headache). And the headache itsself is also less than last time, where he couldn't even rest his head on the pillow (now he could and he could sleep a little). Besides there has been only ONE attack in this night, even though he didn't get high, the shrooms must have done something then. But ehm .. well, he doesn't really want to hear, he's extremely pissed and grumpy and angry because nor Ice, nor Oxygen, nor cold water would help to get rid of the pain ... and ... oh MAN this guy can have a MOOD! (yep, I know, it's normal). I hope this mood will subside before I have to file for divorce (just kidding). ;) ;) ;) . I'm just gonna get out of his face, have to go to work anyway, and have him sort it out himself, I'm sure it will pass during the day after lots of coffee and cigarettes. And then I wonder .... BT It sounds like you are on the safe side now?!? Congratulations, enjoy the life of the free ... you´ll be able to CELEBRATE a PF Christmas!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ave on Dec 12th, 2003, 4:47am I don't think you will decide to just drop out, HF. But if you ever do, call me. I gave you my number. You did not have any scruples dumping your and Jos' troubles on the MB - as is absolutely right. That is what the MB is for. So don't have any scruples to dump some on me if I can help; 's what I am here for too. I won't akert the police, (LOL No4!) but I have a nifty rebate card for the train. I'll come calling. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 12th, 2003, 9:20am hate to be "captain obvious" here but it sounds like the kip 4-5 is actually much better than the consistant 10s Jos was getting within this tread. Thanks for the update and keep them comming please. jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 12th, 2003, 10:15am Aound 10 o'clock in the morning my collegue (and friend) yelled across the office hall "Jos on the phone - quick!". So I ran back to my office, he was panting and heavily breathing and oh well, you all know the drill. I asked "Is it a 10?" He said "No no, 8". I had to drag it out of him, but after a while I understood he had been like this for very, very long and he couldn't think of anything he could do (he tried running, oxygen, ice the lot), he feared it wouldn't go away at all. I told him to take two mushroom, put them in a cup, poor just a little bit of hot water over it and have them soak a little while, then chew 'em up as long as he could, then drink the water. I didn't expect a lot of it, since we dosed yesterday but it would keep him busy for perhaps 5 or 10 minutes, and hey you never know. Perhaps it would take the edge of things. He hung up ... don't you hate that toot-toot-toot sound when one of your loved ones hung up, and you can't be there? Much later he send me an email saying : "I don't know how it's possible , but it's like I'm tripping NOW. I'm going to try and walk to the the couch to get some sleep". Weird huh? Yesterday he got 5 grams, didn't do anything noticable. Today he eats two dried mushrooms and he says it hits him much harder. I've seen this before, that if you take a little bit of mushroom AFTER the trip, it looks like it's pulling you BACK into the trip so to speak. Anyway, when I got home, he STILL had a headache, he didn't have another attack, but he feels like a piece of shit ofcourse. He's able to sleep a bit though, and as long as he's asleep he's not complaining too much ;) ;) ;). I'm convinced that if the headache will pass, it will go okay for some time again, but let's hope it will pass soon, he's had this bad headache now from yesterday evening 21.15 till now 16.00 the next day. He feels all the "clusterspots" and his nose hurts a lot on his bad side. I hope I can post tomorrow that it's going okay ... I wonder .... I think the mushies have worked after all but hey what can I say, we have to get through the tough part first again. He's lucky he's able to sleep now. Didn't see any police on my doorstep yet, hee hee. Greetings, and thanks all for the support and encouragement. YOu've got no idea! It makes all the difference. Greetings, Hannah EDIT Ehm .... headache is getting less now, and attacks are coming back in mini-form .... and every half hour! Just bad enough not to be able to sleep. Just a few: 19.55 - 19.58 - kip 2 20.28 - 20.35 - kip 2 21.10 - 21.18 - kip 2-3 21.47 - 22.00 - kip 2 22.07 - 22.27 - kip 2-3 (only 7 minutes later!) 22.40 - ???? - kip 3 (he is being hit now ...) No kiddin' .... he's still gloomy (understatement) :-/ :-/ :-/ This looks pretty similar to what we had a week back, when he had 16-18 attacks on one day ... when I do a quick count it should be possible to double that :-X. Any suggestions? He is having the feeling now that some demon is playing with his bio-rythm, and that this is NEVER going to pass. PS am not sure what kip 1 is. He needs ice and cold water, so I suppose it 's around 2 or 3. When he starts breathing (puffing) a bit I call it kip 3. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 13th, 2003, 3:47am Sorry for posting AGAIN, but this is getting a bit crazy, so am just informing you all that we are going to dose again today, to get some kind of reaction, no matter how small. Don't get me wrong, both Jos and I feel we're in the lift pretty good, something 's happening, and we're going the right way .... BUT ...... From yesterday evening off and all through the night he has been hit every half hour varying between kip 2 and kip 5, varying between 5 minutes to 15 minutes, hasn't been able to sleep at all, and is basically very PISSED OFF [smiley=mad.gif] on his beast (not on the mushies). He sais, we didn't get him good last time , something must have gone wrong, it did something, but now he's hanging on a thread, and we're just waiting for the thread to actually break. So he wants another dose, maybe the effect will be small, but we're both feeling we're just one snap away of killing it off foregood. The icepack is on the table, the pain itsself is reasonably bearable, but being so many attacks, it wears him out pretty quickly, he just is not getting any rest, no breaks at all ..... some attacks are 7 minutes or less apart, so then he puts down the ice pack and says "ah it's gone again", stands up to go to the toilet, or is starting to make coffee whatever and ding-dong, the next one is standing on the doorstep :-/ :-/ :-/, so he'll be still going like "Oh bugger's there it is again!" and he can pick up the ice pack again. Sigh .... Besides, he started on kip 1 or 2, and now he's having kip 5's inbetween this morning and has to use oxygen again, so it's building up again. He wants to kill his beast so badly now, this demon that just won't LEAVE HIM ALONE, this "thing" should watch out whenever he's in a dark alley on his own ... or with his mates, whatever .... and Jos is somewhere in the neighbourhood, because I'm sure Jos will sniff him out and strangle him and his ugly lot off and show no mercy [smiley=hammer.gif]. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 13th, 2003, 10:18am I would eat the shrooms forget the tea.This way you are sure to get the Psilocybin in him.I would also give it a rest in between doses.I am no expert on how to use shrooms for CH's but I have a good deal of experience with shrooms and how to take them recreationally.All this sipping of the tea and such you have been doing leaves you with no way of knowing whats going on as far as the shrooms effectivness. I know the shrooms work FOR SURE.It is just a matter of getting the proper doses at the proper intervals,and bam by by CH's. :D Hang in there PF BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 13th, 2003, 1:03pm Hannah, Just a suggestion, but I would ask the guy at the shroom store about Panaeolus Tropicalis. This is a type of shroom that I have read produces a very enjoyable effect. They are stronger than Cubies so the recreational dose is 1 gm. They are difficult to cultivate so you don't see them in the states that much but they sell them in shops in Amsterdam. The shroom store will know more about them. May be worth looking into. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 13th, 2003, 2:22pm HI again Thanks for the advice on the mushroom. I took the advice of the guy in the shroomstore and bought a Hawaiian brand, that 's supposed to be slightly different and lots stronger than the cubies. Jos was still having little kip-ers every half hour (exhausting!), and they were increasing in strength. We took the whole dose of Hawaiian, which should be very strong, I just poored a little hot water over them, had them soak for half an hour, then he ATE the mushies chewing on 'em as long as he could keep them in this mouth, and drunk the water too. He had an almost empty stomach, not completely empty because he would likely be pretty sick again, and through it all up. This is what we did the last few times basically, so we are sure he got all the mushroom and psilocybine, that couldn't have been the problem. Results after taking mushies: 1) He got a BIT high, just a little dizzy and groggy and slightly gigglish (hardly noticable). Oh well, I suppose it will do. 2) He got VERRRRRRY sleepy. No surprise after a few nights of no sleep at all. So he had to sleep. He couldn't sleep at first, because he felt pretty nauseaus (like all times so far), but he managed to keep everything in. 3) TWo hours after starting on the mushies , from his sleep, his first attack again. Not as mild as the half-hour ones, pretty sharp, but peaking only short, then a lot of afterpain that wouldn't go away. That was 16.00 o'clock. 4) Too tired to stay awake. So later he went back to sleep again even though he was scared. Now it's 20.00 o'clock, so it's 4 hours later, which is terribly NOT bad .................... Please help us hope that it will stay away a bit longer this time, and please help us hope that he won't have a headache this night, replacing the attacks ..... . |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 13th, 2003, 3:33pm (((((((((((((((GOOD VIBES HANNAH AND JOS)))))))))))))))))) ::) Some info on Pans: http://thehawkseye.com/pancyan/pancyan.html |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 13th, 2003, 4:35pm If I may Hannah, add my......"Please do not stop posting to this thread" There really ARE many of us listening with interest and trying to learn from others experiences here. LindaH |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by eyes_afire on Dec 13th, 2003, 7:38pm I reckon it's true that there is a greater risk of losing some psilocybin by making the tea. But, if your extraction process is good you're not going to lose hardly anything (trust me on that one, LOL). There are a couple of advantages to tea. 1. Ugh, I don't think I could bring myself to eat them. I wouldn't want them freekin things stuck between my teeth. Some people say they taste bad, but I wouldn't know because tea masks the taste. 2. Avoid stomach upset. If you're prone to get sick with the shrooms, tea is a great way to go. It could prevent alot of grief and aversion to future dosing. You don't want to develop a negative 'learned response' with this treatment. 3. From what I've heard, tea dose hits faster than eating and may end quicker. This obviously could be an advantage. Makes sense since your stomach and intestines won't have to work on the extraction. However, I imagine it could also be a disadvantage if takeoff is a bit bumpy. I insist, the ass end is the best end, anyway. 2 important things: If you're storing, have a good storing procedure. If you're teaing, have a good extraction procedure. --- Steve |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 13th, 2003, 11:57pm Downloading vibes ;;D )))))))))))))))))))) [smiley=clown.gif] (((((((((((((((((((( Yesterday afternoon/evening Jos has been asleep for 4,5 hours, woke up without a headache ... first PF time in days ... then went back to sleep in the late evening ... and after that I don't know what's happened, did I miss something? I still woke up regularly, too restless to sleep, so I have been in and out of bed during the night checking on Jos, who's STILL [smiley=sleep.gif][smiley=sleep.gif][smiley=sleep.gif] on the couch like a [smiley=baby.gif]. I would almost wanna wake him up to ask him if he's really been sleeping all night through .... not a good idea eh? Did we nuke the bastard at last? [smiley=sgrin.gif] One other weird thing is that he's laying almost flat on his back, with his head low, all the pillows he usually needs (at least 10!) now scattered around him (the dog's invaded one of them ;)). If it dares to return, we're gonna nuke him AGAIN straight away, no matter how many days inbetween. We're too close now. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 14th, 2003, 12:19am ;;DCOOL ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 14th, 2003, 1:48am Hey .... ??? ..... beast? .... did we nuke you? [smiley=bigguns.gif] Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh-h-h-h 07.28 ... I've been behind the 'puter for hours and hours, from 04.30 I think .... nothing's happening downstairs, all is quiet. How pleasant and peaceful is the sound of snoring man on the couch, mouth wide open, big feet sticking out from under the blanket (means they are WARM!). Man, I'm starting to get just a little tiny bit of hope ...... I'm trying not to hope to much but at least he got a good night's SLEEP. Some of you say "fuckeneh" when something great happens, so eh ... being Dutch I'll say: "FIERLJEPPE! HE IS STILL ASLEEP!" |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 14th, 2003, 2:33am Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh-h-h-h BT 8) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 14th, 2003, 2:56am FIERLJEPPE! ;;D Fuckeneh!!!!!!!!!! ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 14th, 2003, 3:24am ;;D Great news Hannah. If this cycle doesn't end soon, you're going to have to move to a location with a closer time zone!!!! LOL Yes I am, yes I am...finally off to bed Thoughts of eight tiny mushrooms floating in my head If they were not so fragile and mushy and small Surely I'd set one up in the hall Lights and ornaments would hang, neatly from the cap I'd have St. Nick mark my place on a map Have old Rudolph light the way up to my front door Clusterheads could unite on my living room floor We'd sip tea and dismiss all the pain in our lives No more hammers or pokers or burning hot knives If everyone's coming I better tell my wife She'll need to know cause I value what's left of my life A stocking will hang from my fireplace wall Totally full of pain-free wishes for you and for all goodnight everyone and Happy Holidays! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 14th, 2003, 3:43am I'm tearin up over here PF :'( That was beautiful ;;D Now I'm off to bed as well. Jos, ((((((((((((((((Have a good day!))))))))))))))))) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ave on Dec 14th, 2003, 6:33am HF, my dear, this gives me the creeps. Before I went to sleep (around 1.30 this morning) I suddenly thought I had to think of you two reeeeeaaaal hard! So I did. In the direction of your part of the country as well. Maybe all the vibe protectors were called upon in that hour to do their bit. Dont' know. But I do hope you two beat the demon! But, eh, isn't fierljeppe Frisan, instead of Dutch? And does it not mean something like "jumping ditches by means of a pole"? O heck, I don't know. I am just happy for that one night of good sleep. Love, ave |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by JDH on Dec 14th, 2003, 12:08pm Shine on Pink! That was great ;) You and yours have a great holiday as well. Jim |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 14th, 2003, 2:01pm on 12/14/03 at 06:33:15, ave wrote:
I told Jos about you mentioning that time, and he sayd he'd gone to bed (again) at half past one ::). Perhaps he has been thinking about you too, and all the rest of you, wouldn't surprise me. I know he has been thinking a lot about BT when he was doing the psilocybine and The Remnant as well. "FIERLJEPPE", yes, it's Frisian, see, I'm half Frisian ;;D ;;D ;;D ... and it DOES mean jumping a ditch with a big stick .... soooooo you can either end up in the ditch and get your butt wet or end up safely on the other side. Hee hee .... that was the deeper explanation, but the word just popped into my mind because it sounds funny ;;D ;;D ;;D Our update for today????? HOpe you guys don't mind me shouting [smiley=laugh.gif] STILL PF! YEAH! He says though that he feels a little pressure building up again, I wouldn't be surprised if he will be getting some shadows or even mild attacks tonight, but hey, we actually got through this time and that is what matters for now. That he had a full night of sleep is really exeptional, that hasn't happened for weeks. I loved your poem Pink Floyd, makes me want to celebrate Christmas. Thanks all for the good vibes, sending big thank you's to you all! ((((((((((((((((((((((((THANKS)))))))))))))))))))))))) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 14th, 2003, 8:22pm Now you know you got through. ;;DNow you may get some hits but they are going to start to wobble.I hope you got the punch through,but if it takes some more shrooms it will only get better from here on out. All hale the power of the fungi [smiley=bow.gif] BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 15th, 2003, 1:39am Well, I'm going to assume that no news is good news and am going to leave you all with a ;;D and a goodnight!!! PF BTW hannah, did they ever let that poor kid take his finger out of the dike or is he still there? ;) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 15th, 2003, 2:12am And another night totally PF....... Yay Yay Yay Yay Yippey Yay I suppose some shadows or little attacks will come back, I had expected them tonight but nothing happened. Jos was so surprised when he woke up and asked me the time and I said "It's 07.40". Hee hee, you all should have seen his face! BT if the succer comes back we're gonna kick hard again and blow him away with another portion of strong hawaiian shrooms that I bought extra. We dozed 6 times now, the 3de and the 5th were not very succesful, but the 2nd, 4th and 6th were okay (4th was the strongest reaction). PF the kid in the dike ... I think he will stay there for eternity. No one can remember which dike it was. ;;D I'm gonna just be happy here ... and think of Christmas. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 15th, 2003, 8:16am WHHOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Tell Jos "welcome back" from all of us! Christmas may have come early for you two this year ;;D Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by fjleonard on Dec 15th, 2003, 9:27am Hannah & Jos.....HIP HIP HURRAY from the midwest!!!!! What a long strange trip it has been!!! But VERY informative for those of us lurking....Here's hoping that Christmas this year is a completely PF one for you and Jos!!! And THANKS again for keeping us all informed!! :) :) :) Joe (returning to lurk mode now..... ;)) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 15th, 2003, 11:01am WHOOOOOHOOOO! ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D Continuing to send (((((GOOD VIBES))))) :o |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 15th, 2003, 11:49am Hi people Just came home. Found hubby without headache and a big smile on his face: STILL FEELING FINE Not one attack all day. Thanks all for good vibes. They must be stroooooonggggg (and the mushies too). :) :) :) :) :) I'm so happy |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Cluster_head on Dec 15th, 2003, 1:18pm ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 15th, 2003, 1:41pm Hannah & Jos, I’m so glad for the both of you, don’t lose faith if you have a minor set back. You sound like you are almost over the hump. Prayers and candles are in the hip pocket. You give the rest of us so much FUCKING HOPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I must say I am green with envy :P. I’m starting to taper my predisone about 8 more days, maybe I can rush it, already off the lexapro, tapering the lithium, and starting to taper the topomax. Have my care package my Christmas elf sent me (you know who you are) and yes I do owe you those steaks and no I won’t forget (and yes they will be KC Strips ;)). I’ve injected the spores to start my own farm. After five months of meds, this is the last go around for me. These have got me so fucked up I can hardly see straight. At least I have gotten some sleep but I’m not sure at what cost. My head is so cloudy, my legs are so wobbly I feel like Jack Nicholson at the end of one who flew over the cuckoo's nest. So we will get to keep this thread going with one more test case and we will are going to have one more success story because I’m sick of this shit !!!!!!!!!! Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 15th, 2003, 2:12pm As we say in Aberdeen: Well Fuck Me Sideways! Here are my thoughts on what lessons we can take from Joos experience. 1) It is apparent that there were some dosing issues and problems achieving a consistency of trip at the desired levels. Out of the 6 attempts 1 exceeded the desired level, and 5 fell well under it. My suggestion here would be for HF to aquire some standard cubes and dry them over dessicant until they are cracker dry. Using the fresh shrooms it's much harder to get the correct dose especially with these larger shrooms, not such a problem with the smaller much stronger liberty caps. 2) Preparation, it seems like on at least 1 occasion the shrooms may have been overcooked and the psilocybin destroyed. I mean we are talking whopping great doses that should have sent him to Mars. 3) It appears Joos has a VERY high tolerance, and that shrooms also agree with him. 4) Interference from Imitrex. I'm sure that we could have cracked this one sooner if we had not encountered detoxing, dosing, preparation, and tolerance issues. HF - BTW you are not in any way at fault here, these are problems that we must continually face until they come up with a standard pill, and some means of establishing tolerance. So to move things forward, I suggest that HF aquire standard cubes and dry them like crackers. This will only take 5 days. We should have done this much sooner but nobody thought things would drag on. Also, now that Joos has had some decent success hopefully he will dispence with the trex 100%. The big dose might have broke it within 48 hours if the trex hadn't been introduced - but that is pure speculation. One good thing is that it appears that dosing every 3 days is possible. HF - a word of caution, once you start using the standard dried cubes I suggest that you lower the dose back to 2gs, because the effects may prove stronger. Nobody knows for sure how many fresh grams = a dried one. Hopefully the episode is terminated, from now on it's easy, 1 dose every 3-12 months depending on the individual. One last thing - HF and Joos, your perseverence has been an inspiration to us all. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 15th, 2003, 5:35pm Hootchdom, wouldn't it be great if you got through it too. Don't have to warn you, you've seen in our story that it can be tough but in the end it's rewarding ;;D. I wish you good luck with detoxing, and be sure that I'll be here to cheer you along if you're gonna start, and you'll be with us in all of our thoughts, sending GOOD VIBES, I am a true believer of GOOD VIBES now ;;D I said it before, it helped a lot that we got lots of advice on the dosing and other things, and what was the best thing to do, what we could expect ... that made a lot of difference for him! Otherwise he would perhaps have been scared off by the fact that the attacks got MORE instead of LESS, now we understood that it was an effect, made it easier. Perhaps things were not the optimum, ... like the dosing, but I am still wondering what would have happened if we had dosed higher the first time. His tolerance built up pretty soon, yes. He did feel the second dose though and got (a bit) giggly on it, and this was only 1.1 grams. Jos has the idea he would have gotten BIG attacks if he would have dosed high the first few times, but ofcourse that's only guessing. Anyway, we got through that counts. I think if we have to dose again, and I expect we will have to, we will probably need a BIG dose to get any effect. I am drying the mushies now, to save 'em until I need them. I do believe we will have some more setbacks from now but to be a few days PF gives you wings to fly, he is SO happy! So now suddenly it gets easier ofcourse, now you see the result, NOW it's easy to say: oh well, when it comes back, we're gonna kick his ass again .... but this "inbetween" period when we were having 20 or even 30 attacks each day, that was difficult. But I understand not everybody has that. Last cycle took so long we feared he would get chronical on 6-8 attacks a day, that was our fear this time too ... perhaps his long cycle has something to do with the difficulty to break it, dunno. Anyway, Jos is STILL PF now, which is great? He is still fearing the night, this beast attacking him during the night, creeping up on him while he is asleep and smaking him awake, it has made quite an impression, so he still is scared to go to sleep. I am wishing all the people who are wondering about this treatment, the courage to try it. Think it over very well, and try to think about the possibilities too that you will have a hard time. That helps too, if that happens, you will know it's temporary, the pain will still be just as severe but perhaps it will be possible to look at something that comes after the pain (well that's too much to ask while you're being hit ... I know). Good luck you all ... |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 15th, 2003, 7:56pm Well, I'm a happy camper. ;;D Looks like we've turned that big corner Hannah/Jos and as Flash said, this process of constant updates has been not only impressive but inspiring. Everyone's willingness to put it "all" out front for everyone to read, has been amazing. I want to thank everyone that participated. We had a couple different scenarios playing out. From fast results to a longer and more distressing scenario. I assume that some people thinking about trying this are more positive in their thoughts. I'm also assume that some people may have been scared off, at least for now. Until we (or others) get this more refined, there will undoubtedly be other difficult cases. Even after it's more refined, there will be cases of varying length and difficulty. It seems anyway, that success, and the length of time needed to reach success, are dependant upon many things that don't necessarily concern the efficacy of psilocybin. Many of those other influences may still exist to make every cycle /person react slightly differently. This isn't all new information but it does answer many questions for many people that have been following this thread. To know that there may be some bumps in the road. It was good to be able to see that there are adjustments that can be made and that support is not only an important ingredient, but one that is available. Maybe even more important in this entire process is the knowledge that was gained regarding what and how these other influences alter the treatment. I know many of us are convinced that psilocybin will work. Knowing what to expect based upon all the related topics such as how much Imitrex, and other meds, have been introduced into the picture, intensity of the cycle in question, etc., is invaluable to people considering and beginning the treatment. What to expect is an important ingredient in success or failure in many cases. Every piece of the puzzle, no matter how small, is REQUIRED to complete the puzzle. For all of you that went through this process with us, thank you for answering some of the unknowns. I also think that, if my math is correct, it's pretty impressive to note that it *only* took about 240 posts to break 4 cycles. Thats about 60 posts per cycle. LOL Not a bad average!!! We are prepared to handle all the "maintenance posts" that may be required to finish the job and keep everyone as pain free as possible. 8) Thanks again everyone. PF (thinking about the possible need to start a Vibe-Providers group LOL) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 16th, 2003, 12:58pm It seems as if our quest still has not ended (well, let's not be too sad, we didn't expect it too end already). Jos got his headaches back today, then some mild attacks, then an attack of one hour. Same picture again, if the headaches stop for half an hour or longer, then he will have an attack, which ends in "just" a headache, so he's feeling quite miserably again. Could be worse though :-/. It was obvious that if we do nothing the attacks will only get worse, so we dosed again today. I hope we won't get too big a problem with his tolerance, I gave him a big dose (6 grams of the strong hawaiian kind), and he didn't notice anything, just got sleepy on it and fell asleep only half an hour later. Giving him a bigger dose will be difficult , this made him pretty sick already (he prefers not to do the tea, we just soak the dried mushrooms a bit and he chews them away in about 15 minutes and drink the water). He has some trouble to keep it down and is lying very still at the moment with a bucket nearby, because of the nausea. :-[ We'll have to wait and see again. Don't let this disencourage you, it has been much worse then this, and these last few days were SO cool, no pain, nothing. And to be able to sleep, ahhh, that was nice. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 16th, 2003, 1:46pm Hang in there Hannah, Jos. I do wonder about the quality of the shrooms you are using as 6 grams should be enough to send an elephant into orbit. Also, you did have a few days to lower the tolerence so I would assume that there should have been some effects from a dose so very large. Understand the upset stomach thing also. When I first tried the treatment I would eat thme fresh from the cake...no drying as the taste was actually soemwhat pleasant (standard earthy mushroomy taste but a bit bitter). Later I moved to drying them and YUCK...nasty taste for sure. Not to get too candid but my dog would actually leave the room at times shen the stomach got too upset. Not wanting to go back through the entire thread, how many different strains have you tried? Is it possible that you got a bad (weak) batch or two? Would it be worth trying a half hit of ellis d at this point? The only thing that seems apparent is that you have the beast on the ropes. t would be a shame to be unable to throw that knockout punch due to tolerence. Another thing that is concerning is the normal headaches in between hits. Are you sure they are not shadows in disguise? COuld there be another underlying problem that needs to be addressed. It has happened where some get migrains between clusters but is not that common from what I know. Whens the last time Jos had an MRI or saw the Neuro? Not to scare you or make you paranoid but I would sure hate for Jos to have a more serious problem that is being written off as a Cluster. I am not suggesting that he does not have Clusters as that is very apparent, just that he may have another condition existing with the clusters. Thoughts anyone? jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 16th, 2003, 5:08pm Story goes on .... ;;D I'll try to juicen it up a little .... but how ;;D .... I'm sure the quality of shrooms is okay, this shop seems to be very much on their quality, so I trust them for it. Ofcourse they can vary a bit, but these hawaiian were of the same batch that sent him high the 4th time we dosed (we used Cuban too then). But see, this is the 7th time already that we dosed. If you can believe the stories, if you take shrooms only a couple of days apart, you should almost double your portion to get the same result (when it comes to the "trip"). So in that case we dosed even low now. By the way, Jos woke up just a little later, and he was definately more then a bit wobbly in the legs, he just didn't have any other effects, just pleasantly dizzy, not giggly at all though. Seeing this, I'm pretty sure they will work again, they did last time so why not now! He doesn't really mind the taste of the dried mushrooms that much, he doesn't give it any thought, he just munches them up and if he gets sick, he thinks oh well, ... better sick then dead or having headaches ;;D. He's getting good at this ;) I've been asking around about the stronger stuff just in case. But neither Jos nor I am too keen on that. It seems to be almost impossible to get your hands on clean stuff, and I'd rather not take that risk. I actually got some addresses, you can get anything here if you want to, but the trouble is, what will you end up with .... you will probably end up buying washing powder if you don't know what you're doing. Naaah, not for us (yet). I am still expecting us to pull through. Like you say too we've got him on ropes we have to keep slamming him down now, until he lays down foregood. About the headaches. Hmmm, well, perhaps it plays a part that Jos got his CH after a heavy car-crash with coma. Before that he had "only" migraines. Before his migraines severe "normal" headaches. So he's basically a very headach-y person anyway. Make him angry he gets a migraine, make him worried, he gets a headache, give him a common cold, he gets CH (like this time). That's how it works with him. Perhaps some areas in his head got damaged by the car crash, and perhaps that makes it tougher to break the cycle. Wouldn't surprise me. I must also say that in his last cycle he was close to becoming chronical, perhaps that makes it more difficult too. I am pretty sure theres stuff wrong inside his head, he has some damage there, and like I said, this could make it tougher yes. But there's no other acute disturbances, he's been turned inside out after he developed CH, nothing was found. I am sure you are right in that these headaches are shadows in disguise, they ARE actual attacks, but it is like they are "smeared out" over a longer period of time. They are two outlets for the same disorder, that's how I see it. During these headaches, he will still complain about his cluster spots, his nose, his eye, but it doesn't feel like an attack to HIM. That's why I call it a "normal headache", it doesnt come up like an attack. Last update is promising. We dozed around 17.00, it's 23.00 and everythings quiet in his head. I'm still positive about us getting there. We knew it wasn't all over yet, but last time dozing made a big difference! So why wouldn't it work now.... we'll see. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 16th, 2003, 5:59pm Hannah, ;) Firing up the candles and letting the heat carry the prayers to powers that be. Hang in there Jos you are going to be fine. ;) You will triumph over this cowardly beast [smiley=sgrin.gif]. You have massed an army behind you [smiley=bigguns.gif]and you are not alone. Do not forget that !!!!!!!!!!!! In the 30 days since this post started over 3000 people have followed your progress. That alone will give you the strength to get well. Between pinkfloyd, flounder, flash, bt, jdh, cluster_head and the countless others I haven’t mentioned [smiley=headbanger.gif] from my point of view you guys got the best damn bunch of non medical cluster experts working on this. I know its been rough but I see some progress being made and I would hang in there. Hootchdom PS This goes on much longer. You guys are going to have to do a US tour. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 17th, 2003, 2:00am Ehm ... how to reply to this. Ah, I know! YEAH! Fuckeneh! PS Jos had a bumpy night, no attacks, but lots of "headache-in-disguise". He sais it's hard to see something positive in it, ofcourse I do ... but okay, Iagree with him we'll have to wait and see (again). |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 17th, 2003, 3:05am on 12/17/03 at 02:00:18, HannahFroukje wrote:
I see you're picking up the slang side of our language very well. Check with the University..you might be able to pick up a couple of those internet continuing education credits!!! ;;D Hope all is going well. I hope you don't get a headache yourself from all the online research you've been doing!! If you do, let me know. I have something for THOSE types of headaches too!! LOL Anyway, just a note before I head off.... Please consider the size of the next dose carefully. Something has blocked "some" of the doses Jos has taken. Whether it be leftover imitrex effects, those homeophobics....I mean homeopaths....homeo.....oh whatever they're called.....you know what I mean. ::) Maybe the dinner you cooked him, etc.....too much starch in his shorts....??...whatever it was, something blocked a couple of them. I know you had one successful dose and one not so successful doses out of the same batch. The shrooms weren't different, his receptors were different. We do not need, or want, Jos to consume 7 or 8g expecting to need that much to break through and find out all of it "breaks through." In other words, I think that if 3g won't do it, neither will 7g...at that point in time. An example would be, if there are only enough available receptors to accept 1g worth of psilocin, then it doesn't make any difference if he eats 2g or 10g, except to his stomach. Its not just the size of the dose, but the readiness of his neurological system. PF (once again, as I understand it....size doesn't matter nearly as much as performance!! ;;D ) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 17th, 2003, 4:13am Hmmm ... I don´t know, I think it is possible that it´s going to be a problem that he lost sensitivity to the mushrooms. I understand what you´re saying about the "readiness of the neurological system". But what then if the headaches DO come back, while he´s still "not ready" ? I´m pretty sure I can´t have given him anything homeopathic that might have interfered and I have been only working with remedies I know. Besides , I have been really careful with that, and have not been given him any homeopathics anymore since stuff went the right way, and these low "potencies" of homeopathic can´t work for more then a few hours in a row, so it would not be logical that the homeopathics that I DID give him, would still interfere. Perhaps it was that dinner with kaviar, eggs, oisters, pink champagne and caramelled mushrooms ... mmmmm ... perhaps.... ;) Enough kidding ... sigh ... what to do then? If taking more of the same is no answer, then I guess the only answer could be waiting a longer time, am I right? Would be difficult to spend a whole week with a splitting headache/shadows, but if there´s no other solution, we can do nothing else then ofcourse. Thanks for replying, will send it on to Jos. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by ave on Dec 17th, 2003, 6:39am HF, try and plot out the doses you gave over the last few weeks, and not in days, but in hours. Maybe the pause time has to be measured in hours for Jos. So many hours - receptor s not ready. add a few hours and they are? Grabbing at straws maybe, but if it works it may be better than going in pain for a week...) Good luck, I'll keep the vibes machine going. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 17th, 2003, 10:34am on 12/17/03 at 04:13:54, HannahFroukje wrote:
Ok, lets see if I've had enough coffee this morning to come up with something. 1. I really don't think it's the homeopaths ( I was only kidding about those). 2. I too had a VERY similar situation myself. I also used up to 7g one time with no effect (or very little, its been a long time ago) after several other doses. But then, after the same time interval, 3g did the trick. So even the 7g dose didn't make me more "immune" so to speak. I couldn't really tell you why this happened. I wish I could. 3. You reported (at least once if not twice) that an hour or two after dosing, you (Jos) added more tea and only then did he experience any hallucinogenic effects. I know that you also reported that taking some additional tea after the dose didn't add to the effect, at least once. 4. It could be that those interum small doses of tea used to treat individual attacks have blocked things somewhat and he does need to put a little more time in between doses. 5. What is he "doing" specifically after he drinks the tea? I know there can be a significant difference between sitting down to watch tv versus laying down in a dark room in silence or just some soft music in the background. TV watching being a detractor of the effects. I know I haven't answered anything but...here's what I would do....I think :( ...being in the moment sometimes canges things and the person(s) involved will have a better "feeling" of what to do at that moment. 1.Try to put the next dose off as long as possible. You may find that after a bad day, he may have a day or two that are very good. Once people are able to start increasing the intervals between each dose, they do seem to do better. 2. Dose with about 3g and be ready with more tea if needed. Depending on how long it is before he usually can tell, or feel, the effects, if he isnt getting anyhere, drink more tea. Good luck and stay in touch. I'll let you know if I have an enlightened moment and come up with any other thoughts. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 17th, 2003, 11:23am on 12/17/03 at 10:34:34, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Answers and add-ons here: Ad 3. Yes, Jos had that once I think. And yes, we also had that 3,5 grams or so did nothing, and after half an hour or a bit more we added 1,5 gram and that did nothing too. I think these two belonged together, that he had the 5 grams alltogether, noticed nothing, and then later he took 2 little mushrooms while he was in an attack, and later he wrote me being stoned. Ad. 4. I did not use the small doses these last days anymore because he only needed them on the violent 9's and 10's. See, that 's the good thing about this all, the attacks ARE getting less. He didn't need the little sips for quite some days. Ad 5. Always the same routine. Listen to some music, always the same by the way. I hope you're not telling me that Leonard Cohen could be the problem ... ;;D ;;D ;;D. I massage his back and neck. We talk a little. He gets sleepy. He says it does nothing (but it did do something on more then one occasion, he just isn't really getting the visuals). He falls asleep. That's about it.... Then to the rest: 1. Yes, we're going to try that, wait as long as possible. But must add that all this time we only dosed after we saw the real pattern coming back and developing. I don't thing we have been dosing (perhaps excluding one time, not sure) while things were still good in progress. 2. We tried that to wait and if he didn't notice anything drink more tea. Perhaps a better plan is doing what worked before. So eat/drink the stuff no more then 3 grams, then wait a couple of hours then have just a few bites and see what it does ... ? Anyway, quick update. He has had a lousy night, then a few mild attacks these morning ... really no more then a "darned 20 minutes". Then it stopped again, he's been PF during the day. I don't get the feeling myself that it has been useless to dose. There was a clear pattern returning and building up in strength. We could have waited, but it was clear in which direction we were heading and he didn't really like the idea of waiting for the first kip 8, 9 or 10 to arrive again, which would have been probably that night. After the dosing he has been totally PF for over 6 hours I think, also his headache disappeared. Then he had the rough night, few attacks, then PF again. Hmmmm, I don't know what will happen. It doesn't all look bad to me. Well just wait now. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BlueMeanie on Dec 17th, 2003, 11:57am I've been trying to keep up with your little experiment between my attacks. Knowing what i've read on clusterville. It's obvious that no matter what prevent or abort is being used. It only works some of the time for some of the people. Don't want to spoil your mushie party, but I wonder if it is best to just try something else on him. You keep saying that he has some good days and some bad days. For the last 4 months, I too have had some good days and lots of bad days and i'm not doing the mushie thing. Just my 2 pennies. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 17th, 2003, 12:11pm HF - Something just occured to me. If you make the tea then you must be sure not to heat the mushrooms up too much, and certainly not boil then, and certainly not brew them for too long. The best method is to boil the water, then remove it from the heat. Throw in the shrooms when the boiling has stopped and put on the lid. Leave for 20 mins then throw out the shrooms and drink the water. Using less water means less tea to drink. Softening up the shrooms in water is probably leaving all the good stuff behind in the water, with only the bowel upset remaining in the shroom. So the moral is either consume the shroom without exposing it to water, or make tea and drink it. If you want to consume the shroom then melt some chocolate at low temperature and encase the shroom in the melted chocolate and leave to solidify. Do not chop the shrooms too finely or all the good stuff will leach out. I hope this offers an explanation as to why Joos has not be launched into orbit more than once in 7 attempts. Like I said before the lack of success is due to a failure in the process. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 17th, 2003, 12:35pm BlueMeanie, I had a whole 15 bad days in 11 years. Maybe you're right I should give this up and go on Pred with Imitrex chasers. Doh! It's hard to break a cycle with shrooms, especially as they are first and foremost a PREVENTATIVE therapy. When it comes to aborting entire episodes and breaking chronic cycles they only have a success rate of better than 50% (we estimate it to be 80%). Not bad for a preventative. Although Joos has been suffering the shrooms have improved at least as much as any prescription preventative would have. His reaction to the shrooms is far from ideal in that he has been taking monster doses and getting no hallucinogenic affect - indicating that something somewhere is going very wrong. The point is not to get a hit off them, but going by these doses it's absence is a very good indicator of a wrongness. The problem is also that people tend to turn to shrooms when they are REALLY desperate and suffering, usually at the peak of a very bad episode. Those that have sucess then proceed to use the shrooms as a preventative and go on to remain CH free for very extended periods, here are 2 recent emails to that effect: "the last email from **** ******** kind of inspired me to give a quick update...I was episodic with cycles coming 2x a year (3x a year when i lived in NYC)...with the help of pink and flash i dosed in july 2001 while acute...in fact dosed while i was actually having a ch...doesd again 2 weeks later...and HAVE NOT HAD A CH since...NO KIDDING!!!!...july will be three years ch free and it is amazing given that they started when i was 19 (38 today) and the longest i ever went was 6 months (on verapamil)ch free..really incredible!" *** "Hey All. I just wanted to let everyone in on my latest. I have now been PF since May 2002. I dosed in May 02 and broke my cycle completely with one dose of some street shrooms. Then I grew a crop and dosed a maintenance dose in 11/02 and then again in 4/03 and then just recently in 11/03. My normal cycle has always been roughly March to May since 1991 except for the first year that I went on Neurontin. That year I skipped the spring and then got hit in the fall with a really bad cycle." *** BTW we get these coming through every week. If people decided to take the small preventative dose of shrooms every 6 months commencing between episodes then there would be no need for them to experience this level of trauma. Unfortunately chronics do not have this luxury and must do it the hard way. We at www.clusterbusters.com number several ex-chonics in the ranks where shrooms returned them to preventative episodics. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 17th, 2003, 12:48pm Back again. This is getting longer and longer..... It couldn't have been the heating. I never boiled any mushroom because I was told the psilocybin would be destroyed. The first few times we made the tea, first taking the water OF the boil, mushrooms in and putting it on a tea light to keep it warm (but not boiling). The last few times, including the time that Jos kinda "lost his arms" we took dried mushroom, poored hot water (just of the boil) over it, made tea from this water after 20-30 minutes without boiling it, and eating (chewing ) the mushroom, so he got the whole lot, WITHOUT any boiling involved. That could not be it honestly. Blue Meanie, I don't think mushies is the same thing over again, working for this person but just not working on the other. We have perhaps not been the luckiest so far of all people who have tried, but to us it was very clear that with us it worked too, even though it wasn't a picknick. The TREND is very clear coming from 6-8 kip 10's a day which were VERY regular, almost clockwise bam-bam-bam always every third hour he would have an attack. Then we started on the mushies and it went something like this: BAM-BAM-BAM-bam-bam-BAM ... bam-bam-bam-bam-bam, then bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam, to bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam ....... to bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam ........................... BAM .................... BAM ............... bam-bam-bam-bam (boy did we hate that part) ... sometimes kip 10's falling out of the sky unexpected but that's still much better than having kip 10's all the time!!! Which he HAD! I would be willing to "bam" them all down for you but would take me a while ;;D Even with Jos being not too happy about some things, it was clear to him too that they were working! That's the only thing that gave him the determation to go on with it, he would not have managed to go without this feeling that it was working. It was no picknick but hey, if you want a picknick you better try Ellis D (at least of what I'm told). If you look at the facts, the trend is very clear. And not only with us, but with the others like BT too. It 's not that it's always this tough, we're perhaps not so lucky yet, but I'm still convinced we'll get there. I still find this a lot more satisfying then the idea of being drugged on medicine - imitrex or whatever - all your life. And the good part is that if we get through this and take a dose a few times each year, or in the worst case start on it as soon as the attacks begin, it wouldn' t be necesary to go through this ever again. He's still PF now by the way. Ave, I'm not really sure what you mean, sorry. Could you PM me about that? Must be my English |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 17th, 2003, 2:00pm Heah blue, Just wanted to reiterate that this is probably the most perplexing case to date regarding this treatment. As stated before, many have been PF for extended periods of time (we are talking years here) and remain that way once the beast is successfully crushed. Now, if you can tell me of anything over the counter that has an 80% plus success rate and actually prevents the episode from stou followed the arting again, along with no long term side effects (that we know of) then bend me over and call me sally. WHat I meant was, sign me up. I also have to restate that MANY success stories never make it to this message board and are followed and discussed in an offline closed group do to concerns for privacy and such. If you followed the entire thread you would see that several have aborted their cycles since this thread began and those are only the ones who are willing to report it. Not to overjustify this but I challange you to show me anything, leagal or not that has helped soo many with such a high rate. Ok, off my soap box now. Hannah.....YOU WILL BREAK THIS THING!!!!!! Once broken, you will keep it at bay with prevents.....it will happen. Vibes to you jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 17th, 2003, 2:50pm Since we are getting off the subject I thought I would throw my two cents in. I’m planning on starting the treatment in the next few days. This is my mind set: - The shrooms are a treatment for cluster headaches - They are Not an abortive to a cluster headache. o The headaches will be a bitch going through the treatment o With the support of my wife, you guys, plenty of 02, lots of space, plenty of smokes and a fucking fierce attitude I will make it through each headache. o The triptans will stay out of reach. Adult proof container. o I will dose on the pros recommendations. - Preventives? o I’m open on this one. I’m hoping the shrooms can break this cycle. o Nothing and I’m pretty sure I’ve tried every thing except sansert (no longer sold in the usa) and aricept (see achieves) that conventional medicine says to use and non of it has worked for me. Talk to the chronics out there they can explain. Bottom line I don’t see a down side down to this. I truly surprised more people don’t try this. But then again it took my five months to wake my stupid ass up!! Back to regular programming Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 17th, 2003, 3:24pm Hootch I just hope you're gonna blast this thing in one or two hits! Now that would be a blast. Count me in on the support&good vibes group ;;D. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 17th, 2003, 3:39pm I already have Hannah. I know you will be there for me along with everyone else and if Jos doesn't get better soon were going to take up a collection and send the three amigos across the pond. hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BlueMeanie on Dec 17th, 2003, 4:18pm Sorry to sound negative guys. Been getting attacks left & right for 48 hrs. now. Gets so fricken aggrivating. I will continue to watch the replys to see how you're doing. Sending PF vibes your way. Hope it eventually breaks the cycle for ya. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Roxy on Dec 17th, 2003, 4:52pm on 12/17/03 at 14:50:52, hootchdom wrote:
hootch, they work real well as an abortive for me. Or, at least they have the last two times I've dosed. Those are the only two times I've done it while getting hit.......the cluster aborted almost instantly. One thing, and I don't know if anyone has mentioned it in this thread.....and I don't have time to go back and read everything....LOL. I always take two dramamine with my tea. It usually makes for a pretty uneventful night....headwise at least. I took it when I first started dosing, because they said it sometimes upsets your stomach, but then I realized it was helping me get through the night without having to fight my head with no trex. Just a thought.... :) Good luck, you guys! I'm hoping for the best for all of ya'll. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 17th, 2003, 5:36pm on 12/17/03 at 16:18:01, BlueMeanie wrote:
Thats Ok Blue....we understand. Do you know, BTW, that the nickname you're using is also the name of a very nice psilocybe mushroom? Rather ironic. ;) Hannah.....Leonard Cohen??? <sigh> Take two doses of Comfortably Numb and Learning to Fly and call me in the morning!!!! ;;D Pinkfloyd (hint LOL) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Not4Hire on Dec 17th, 2003, 8:31pm ....thumbs fuckin'-UP to all involved in this MONSTER thread... ...this is the stuff that gives people ...at least, those who have tied a knot in the end of the rope... another way to fight the MOFO.... some day, some DAY.... we'll find a key, and a CURE that even... well, even REVdeFORD can get behind..... ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 18th, 2003, 3:37am Sped up the pred taper will take last pill today. :P Going to dose 1.5gm on Saturday. ;) This detox has been a bitch, can’t keep the oxygen flowing fast enough and haven’t been able to use it at work, lungs are about torched. Have been able to stay away from the triptans which should be a good thing. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 18th, 2003, 8:00am Hootch....keep it up man...you can do it! Remember, detox is KEY. Without it you will only get partial results and fill up those receptors (increase your tolerence) before you can body slam this thing. Good luck, we are pulling for you. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 18th, 2003, 9:55am Good Luck Hootch Look like that would put you on a schedule for your 2nd dose on Christmas. I can't think of a better presnt to find under the tree than a little package that will chase away your cycle. Wonder if Pink Floyd ever produced a Christmas album?? ;;D PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 18th, 2003, 10:03am Hootch - you may need to wait a few days for ALL the pred to leave your body. Rather do this than have a failed attempt. We are pretty sure that pred fucks things up. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 18th, 2003, 3:32pm Good deal Hootch!! I will be sending out Major (((((((((((((((((((GOOD VIBES)))))))))))))))))))) :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o Sat. Night. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 18th, 2003, 4:14pm Hannah, Starting to get the shakes. Need my update for the day. How is Jos doing? (By the way what time difference are we talking here). Give us an ideal of what time your next post is your time. Thinking of the both of you, wishing you the best !!!!!!!!! Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 19th, 2003, 1:26am Hi everyone Hey Hootch, been thinking of you. So tomorrow's the big did I get that right? About the time difference, oooowwfff, what would it be? I'm in Holland, most of the rest in America, it's 07.00 now and you are all probably just heading off to bed. I thought it was about 6-8 hours earlier in America. I hadn't posted an update, because I had to see for a little bit if it would be going the wrong way or the right way. I think it's safe to say now that it is somewhere inbetween. Jos didn't have a bad night this night, the night before this one was worse ... so we're not going downhill. He still has attacks though, but in the range of kip 4 - kip 5, and not taking long , perhaps 10-20 minutes. He's been having about 4-6 each day. If this is where the shrooms got us, well I should say it's always a LOT better then having 6-8 kip 10's off-the-scale that last for 2 hours! So if it stays this way, we can handle it. He's not on any (almost) meds since 4 weeks, that's a big difference too. SO! We're not doing too bad, could be much worse. I'm just wondering what will happen next will it still going to increase or will it sort off "die out"? We've been talking about it a lot, Jos and I and we've decided to give it a good wait before we do anything else. Bit disappointing because it's going to be Christmas soon but there's no point in rushing things now, I think every cell in his body is "psilobyn-ed" by now, he 'd better get it out of his system a bit first .... should we wanna hit again . I've gotten some info that perhaps the hawaiian shrooms instead of the Cuban weren't a good idea. And I've heard that there is a smartshop in Holland who has helped people with CH before and they use THAI mushrooms. Any info on that? What kind will you be using Hootch??? I will be thinking of you and sending you GOOD VIBES all the way from Holland. They should be smelling like tulips ;;D ;;D ;;D. I just hope you'll be very lucky and beat your beast away in just a few blows. Keep thinking of that. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 19th, 2003, 1:53am Am I fucking nuts? What a fucking time to go off the meds. Getting hit hard!!!!!!!!!! Back to that fucking 1 ˝ hours of sleep and whack, awaken by a kip 8. Going to be a long night. (Hannah & Jos I know you have had plenty of them). All I want for Christmas……….Well it’s the same thing we all want…..PAIN FREE DAYS & NIGHTS. Probably going to see plenty of rants, ramblings and useless updates from over the next few weeks. I seem to become more active in posting the more I’m getting hit, got to vent. At the very least it will keep this thread going for a few more weeks until I’m CURED, at most it will offer some encouragement to others thinking about shrooms. I know 5 months ago it wasn’t an option for me, now it appears to be the only sensible solution. My cycle started the week of July 24th, new the 2nd day what was going on. First cycle in five years (blessed for that). Five years ago that cycle only lasted 8-12 weeks, thought this one would be similar. My headaches are very rhythmic coming every 4 hours plus or minus, typically about 6 a day. Of course they tend to vary a little depending on the meds I have been on, but not very much. Well after five months have pretty much run the gauntlet. Had the diagnostic procedures and been on most the meds. So far: Had two MRI’s, one CT, Carodic Doppler, and a Spinal Tap. Been on Prednisone (4 tappers), Toprol (Beta Blocker), Lithium , Medrol (Another steroid), Zomig (Triptan), Verapimal, Replex (Triptan), Frova (Triptan), Amerge (Triptan), Imitrex Nasal, Indomethacine, Topomax (Anti Seizure), DHE-45 Self Inject, Lexapro (SSRI), Melatonin and Clomid and of course keep the oxygen bottle close by. I’ve kept a sporadic daily diary since August and a detailed daily diary since November 16th. I keep track of a pain index on a half hour basis. Realize this has no impact on anyone else but has given me a comparison index from day to day. I can know ALMOST tell how intense the headaches will be for a given day depending on what meds I’m on, how many abortives I’m using and so on. It will be interesting to see what impact the shrooms have on the headaches on a daily basis. Out of all the meds I’ve tried only the predisone has reduced the number of daily headaches I’ve had and that has been by only a couple and only at the full 80mg dosage. I’m curious to see medicinal effect of shrooms compared to all of the others. Should be interesting. Sorry for the long post but it has allowed me to pass some time, only about an hour till my friendly little beast returns, whose days are numbered may I add. A quick 45 minute battle with the beast than a 1 ˝ sleep before work. Same old routine !!!!!!!!! Hootchdom Hannah, Thanks for the update !! I'm glad Jos hanging in there. Tell him when he gets cured I'm going to nominate him for the poster child. ::) Will talk Clusterbusters into putting his picture on the website as an inspiration. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 19th, 2003, 3:52am This is good stuff. It will offer a good insight into how the treatment works, and what effects any meds that are inadvertantly taken have on it. It will also serve to illustrate how long it takes pred to get out of the body. It is important that you stay off the pred, and lets face it - preds not being a major help to you anyway. Don't expect instant success because I have a hunch that it will take a little while to get rid of all the pred. Good Luck Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 19th, 2003, 8:58am I’m in it for the long haul. Five months and about 5k worth of meds haven’t done jack shit. Lets see what some mold growing out of the ground can do. My wife and I have always loved fresh Morrells. Maybe I’ll find a new hobby. :D Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by thomas on Dec 19th, 2003, 9:04am I just want to say a few things about this thread. The amount of compassion, effort, sacrifice, support, and all that has been going on here is truly heart warming and inspirational. You guys have really showed us all what this board is about, I'm honored that you've shared this with all of us. Just incredible. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 19th, 2003, 11:20am Hannah, Sorry to hear things are not completely cleared up. Good news that the intensity, number and duration have been reduced. It usually takes 10-20 min. for O2 and for that matter Imitrex to work for me so that should make it easier for him to stay off the Trex. There are several Thai strains. I have experience with the Thai Koh Samui strain. It's a good strain in that it's a very fast colonizer. It is also known as a potent fruit. The effects can be very intense. I did 3 gms of this strain and it was very very intense. It did the trick on my CH's but for me that was to large a dose. That 3 gms was picked dried and done that same day so the freshness may have had something to do with the potency. I did a smaller dose 6mo. later and it was nice and mellow. The shop that has them should have recommendations on dosage as well. You and Jos's determination and strength is truly inspiring. Hootch, Sorry you are having a rough time of it. If you can make it one more day. Hang in there. $5000 worth of meds in 5 mo. Geeese! I have a good feeling about this one! Good tunes and the stars are always a good setting for me. Oh, Christmas lights should be nice too. Good Luck, Good Vibes and Happy Holidays |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by DONNY/LORI on Dec 19th, 2003, 3:42pm We"ve been to clusterbusters.com and need just a little info. Because I understand from what yall have posted that it's better to try and prevent than abort. We want to try this after his cycle stops. Once we harvest can I use the dehydrator to dry? Or how do I do this. And after they are can I use a vacuum sealer keep them good until needed? And for how long. Lori |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 19th, 2003, 4:59pm Donna/Lori, you're talking about drying shrooms? That's really easy. Just place them between a little toiletpaper in a dry place and within 3-5 days they'll be cracker dry. No prob's. Even I can do it. Hootch , hang in there! We're thinking about you. Well, I am !!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 19th, 2003, 5:55pm Donny/Lori - another sure fire bet is to pick up some Damp Rid from your local Mart store, dump some into the bottom of an airtight tuperware type container, cut and install a good firm screen of sorts (hardware store, chicken wire but smaller openings) half way up the container and set the fruit on the screen. Good idea - leave out in front of a table fan for 24 hours first (carefull, when they dry they blow away) on soemthing with edges. DO NOT let the fruit come into direct contact with the damp rid....poisen...bad for you. make sure you have an airtight lid on the container, let sit for 2 or 3 days and vacume pack if you wish. dark cold storage is good for cracker dry (freezer works well). I have also heard of storing fresh in honey which keeps it good for two years plus BUT some of the good for you stuff will leach out into the honey. Hope this helps. jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 19th, 2003, 6:41pm As I’ve said earlier along with my diary I graph my headaches and keep a daily pain index. The following three graphs are pretty representative of the last five months. The 1st graph is from 11/16-11/18. Just stopped taking meds a few days earlier. I was taking break trying to clear my head and figure out what to do next. Total pain for the three days was 560 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/549973/11.16-11.18.GIF 2nd Graph is from 12/07-12/09. 4th day into a prednisone tapper at 80mg/day also was on 900mg lithium, 240mg calcium blocker, 20mg SSRI, 250mg anti seizure. As you can see the pred has kicked in and I’m definitely seeing some relief, but at what cost? It’s a shit load of meds to be taking every day !!! Total pain for the three days was 77. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/549973/12.07-12.09.GIF continued next post |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 19th, 2003, 6:43pm 3rd Graph is from 12/13-12/15. Once again I was just tapering off meds in preparation for the “treatment”. Headaches are ramping up again without any medication. Total pain for the three days was 332 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/549973/12.13-12.15.GIF Side note: Anybody interested in Clomid should take a look at the graphs I have while I was on it. Didn’t have much success with it but it did alter the course of the headaches. Just as much or if not more so than some of the other meds. Kind of interesting. Point being of this once again, for success or for failure I believe I have some great comparison data for the treatment and I plan on sharing with everyone. Hopefully I can keep up and post a graph every 3rd day with a pain index to see how the treatment alters the course of MY headaches in relation to everything else I’ve tried. After going to all this trouble it would really suck if the headaches stopped after the first dose……………NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hootchdom. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 19th, 2003, 8:04pm That's a MEAN lookin BEAST you got there Hootch. With SHARP NASTY TEATH! Good work keeping track of it and graphing it out like that. That will definitely be interesting to compare as you proceed with this treatment. I know you have explained your CH pattern but seeing it like that really brings it home. WOW. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 19th, 2003, 8:32pm Donny/Lori, In addition to the methods above. If you have a dehydrator you can use that. You must turn off the heat. If it doesn't have a switch to do so you can disable the heating coil. This works real good for me. A vacuum sealer would be Ideal also. Store in a cool dry place. Should stay good for over a year. Good Luck |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 19th, 2003, 11:56pm Hannah,wow I just got back online(I had to move to a new house)and I see Jos has been up and down.I can say this my beast has hit the road for good.I don't mean to sound happy,seeing your still having some trouble but the pattern your going through is similar to what I went through.You have the beast on the run,it's hard to think this way with the CH's picking away at Jos but it's gonna go by by. I think when your a CH sufferer in the middle of a cycle it is hard to have faith in anything.When I found this method on this site at first I laughed but I had nothing to lose,ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO LOSE.I hate to say it but doctors when it comes to CH's don't know jack shit this is not an opinion it is a fact,ask an honest Nuero. Hannah,the only thing that puzzles me is your doses.The amounts Jos is taking would make even the most experienced tripper hang on to his eyeballs,but yet it does not seem to be effecting Jos. I am pretty convinced that you need effect to get results with the shrooms,I could be wrong I am no expert, but again I am pretty dam sure. I would have Jos eat 3.5grams of dried standard cubes,don't boil them,don't mix them with anything.The day he is going to dose don't have Jos eat anything,I mean nothing,zero not even a cracker for 10hours prior to dosing,then eat them straight up no chaser!!After he eats the cubes he can drink some water to wash them down then wait 2 more hours before he eats.At this point don't feed him a big meal even if he is very hungry,just something lite so it does not bog down the trip.We need effect!! I know it sounds like alot to go through but the results are well worth it. Hang in there please you have gone much to far. All hale the fungi [smiley=bow.gif] BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 20th, 2003, 12:01am By the way good luck Hootch lets knock out another beast!! Peace BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 20th, 2003, 2:24am Hey Hootch, I'm not too good at reading graphs, and it's too early now, I didn't figure them out, too small to read too for me ... can you send them by email? If yes, don't use the email on this site, that's almost full, I'll send you another one then. With us it's saturday so I'll be thinking of Hootch (who probably still has friday on his hands). ::) BT ... we're gonna sit tight and do nothing for a while until the shrooms are out of his system, then we'll evaluate and make up our minds what to do next. The dose he had you would expect I have to put him on a thread and he will be ballooning above me when we're walking the streets, but nope, nothing. I think it has NOTHING to do, I repeat NOTHING with the way I prepared the shrooms (because the last few times I hardly prepared them to make sure he got the whole lot down!). I could not have done something that distroyed them, I checked and double checked that. So it must be something else and it must be something in his head or body. Perhaps it IS the fact that he's got scartissue in his head from the accident, perhaps his receptors are messed up anyway. Anyway, I think we have to wait now until the windows are fully open again. At least 7 days I wanna wait, perhaps longer if we can manage. As long as it's not getting worse then this, we're fine, he's doing pretty much okay, he's stable on mild attacks of kip 4-5, lasting pretty short even during the night. I see no buildup in strength (yet). But when will they stop??? Last cycle it took 13 weeks before the headaches were over and then after that he had a long period of attacks here and there, not real attacky-like attacks, more like shadows or kip-1.'s but they were there. Took half a year or more after the cycle that that stopped (acupuncture helped on that). He has a tendency to get chronicle anyway, his cycles got longer when he was older. So I must admit I am a little worried about that.... I don't know if Jos is thinking about that, we kinda like to avoid that subject alltogether so none of us has brought it up in conversation (yet). After 1,5 weeks or so we'll know what to do. Good luck Hootch! Go for it! Thanks BT and I would say: BE HAPPY!!! I know why you are saying what you're saying , but do believe that anyone's that followed your story here will be happy WITH you that you're happy! Us too, and I think Jos most of all. It's like you're all friends stuck in a prison; when somebody gets released you will be happy for him and say:"Hey you lucky bastard, kiss your wife, hug the kids and give'm my love". True? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 20th, 2003, 6:46am I think its great news, any improvement with Jos is good news. I know it could turn worse at any moment but can also keep getting better. KEEP THE FAITH in what you are doing. You have to keep Jos mind set in the right direction. A good attitude at least gives us the strength to battle another day. Like I’ve said before, I’m not sure how long Jos was on conventional medications before starting the shrooms. I know its been 5 months for me with no results. I’m looking for something that can break this cycle and until somebody can convince me otherwise all the verapamil, prednisone, depakote, lithium, topomax, lexapro, dhe-45 and imitrex ain’t going to do it for me. Plus at what cost to my body is this toll taking. Basically the way I view it, I’ve been pointed to natural home remedy. Hell who knows maybe 500 years ago some dude was walking through the forest suffering from these aching heads that he gets the some time every year looks down sees a mushroom and eats it. Headaches go away, wonders wow I know a buddy of a buddy of a buddy (not quite 1% but you get the point) that gets these same headaches. He goes back picks another mushroom for this guy to try and his headaches are gone. Now these guys are thinking franchise opportunity (no federal regulations yet)………ah you get the point. Been a long night hell been a long week 9 hrs of sleep the 4 nights. I’ll shut up for now. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 20th, 2003, 11:26am Hey Hootch did you dose yet? Or did you want to postpone it a few days after all because of the pred? Just wondering. We have to get our thought synchronic now don't we, otherwise I'm not sending the proper vibes ;;D ;;D ;;D. Jos has stopped using all meds long ago (14 years), exept imitrex and he took a LOT of that during this cycle. He never had any prednisone. He detoxed from his only drug imitrex as well as he could in the last week before we started the shrooms I think he had only a few shots that week. Still going the same here, kip 4's no more, only about 15 minutes in time. So he's doing okay, still tired, didn't sleep much, but it could be MUCH worse!!! So he's pretty relaxed about it now. We are on our 4th day after the last dosing and if stuff stays this way, we want to wait at least till wednesday next week before we do something. Hootch please keep us updated! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 20th, 2003, 12:51pm SOunds like Jos has got the bastard on his knees. Man, sopunds like he has been dealing with the "king cluster". I have never heard of someone getting hit quite so hard and as frequently as Jos. QUick update on me (was going to start a new thread but figured why not hang off of this one). Not due for my cycle for another 9 - 10 months. Shadows this morning (merry effen christmas to me!). Did not maintenance dose but had planned to in Feb. Should prove to be an interesting time watching the MN Vikqueens lose tonight. Will follow up with another live trial update soon. Be well all, jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 21st, 2003, 1:13am First Salvo, Dosed with 1.5g this evening at 6:30. Reached a definite level 2+. Want to thank you all for the advice on what I was to expect from that. Was quite the pleasant relaxing experience I was hoping for the Christmas décor made for a wonderful setting. Since tapering off the meds I have been getting blasted hard. Same 6 headaches a day (that I was getting while on the meds) but quite a bit more intense, most reaching KIP 8-9. Before I dosed this evening got hit with a killer while out doing some xmas shopping. Was expecting to get so hard, even had a couple of people in store ask if I was going to be all right. But this is besides the point. After 5 months of these things I, like the most of us, have become so keen at predicting my headaches. The slightest twinge, twitch and shadow can usually indicate how much time I have before I’m hit, and to a degree at what strength I’m going to get hit. Being in tune with your body sort of thing, I’m sure you understand. Now to the good stuff. Like I said got hit earlier today at around 4:30 that would put me on schedule for the next headache around 8:30 or so. Dosed at 6:30 so when 8:30 rolls around I can fell that twinge my body is sending. Same twinge earlier that this is going be a rough one but nothing comes of it. Very hard to describe because in 5 months I haven’t experienced anything like it. Around 9:30 Lisa, my wife, suggests I try and get some sleep. Just like clock work 1 ˝ hours after falling asleep I sit straight up in bed, all the signals are there that I’m about to get blasted and again nothing comes of it. The best way to describe it so far is THE BEAST IS KNOCKING BUT NO ONE WILL OPEN THE DOOR. It’s the utmost strange feeling, all the signals are there and I think even the pain, almost like sharp shadows, but they are very quick (couple of minutes) and then they are gone. I know its early in the game probably to early to tell much and I’m sure the next couple of days things will change quite drastically but so far I know the headaches have been altered in a way they haven’t been in five months and that is a good thing. Also want to note that this early on I don’t want to count out the placebo effect. Have been pretty pumped for results. Now I’m looking to the ones with some experience to keep me dosing properly. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 21st, 2003, 1:47am Kewl Hootch, That ain't no placebo effect. You described to a tee what I experience when I dose while in cycle. You kicked him down. Now you have to finish him off. It may take a few more doses or maybe not. Great News!!! [smiley=laugh.gif] Glad it was an enjoyable experience. You can adjust the dose as you see fit, if you need another. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 21st, 2003, 2:44am Allright Hootch! Scoring card notes down 1-0 for you I think! Just sit tight now and dont be too surprised if the HA comes back even though it's a shitty feeling. I am so much hoping this thing will go smooth for you. BT is through it, so why not you eh? Good luck! Hannah PS all still pretty much the same here. Kip4-5, No news, no meds needed, we're in waiting mode. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by BT on Dec 21st, 2003, 5:53pm Hooch you have hit the beast for sure.If you got in the "lucky knock out punch"then rock on.If you feel the beast coming back at ya this is where it gets tricky.I think the key is effect and time between doses without meds,I could be wrong but I don't think so. You sound like you know your system very well which can only help with this treament.The key is letting the door open in your brain enough to hit the receptors again with enough effect.The one thing that makes this a little tricky is everybody is different,so if you want the safest bet go "the old school route"and wait at least 4 full days.I tried to hurry up due to pain but it was a waste of alot of precious time,something the CH does not have.When you hit it to soon you don't just waste that one day,you have to wait 4 days from the dose you took too soon,so it ends up 7 days before you really get an effective dose.This can go on and on and leave the CH sufferer feeling like it is not going to work. I think as more and more CH suffers try this treatment a more established pattern of not only amounts but of when to dose will become more clear.This is why I think it is very important to try and post anything and everything about your situation. The people such as Pink,Flounder,Flash,Jminmil and the many others that jumped in to help me with my dosing I can not thank enough.I am sure I would be sitting here with a K10 and an injector if they did not blaze the trail.It is up to the next person to keep the trail open for more to follow. Hannah I hope you are near the end! All hale the fungi [smiley=bow.gif] Merry Christmas BT |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 21st, 2003, 6:18pm Hi BT and others Thanks for thinking of us. We're stll in waiting -modus. Depression is just around the corner :-/ but being honest, it could be lots worse. Last night was very "soft" and although he had a few today, he did also sleep for more then 6 hours and woke up without an attack. So we're laying low ... Hootch best of luck. And BT I'm so glad for you that you funeral-ed your beast. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 22nd, 2003, 8:03am Don’t know where to start other to say IT”S FUCKING WORKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pain free for 24 hours except for some minor shadowing, slept 8 hours last night. WOW !!!!!!!! 5 months of never ending pain, $5,000.00 worth of medications (I know it sounds like a lot but 400mg/day of topamax for 30 days is over $800.00), 2 neurologists and 3 GP’s (two of them refused to see me anymore because I told them they were idiots). Eat a mushroom and the headaches go away. Nope, this can’t be happening can it? I’m waiting to wake up. Still have some minor shadows if that is what you can call them. There is still that twinge like a HA is coming on but nothing ever comes of it. I haven’t had that “flush” feeling that some of you have described but my head does feel a lot “clearer” than it has in 5 months. I guess I’m kind of in a wait and see mode. Wait to see if the headaches do break back through. Wait to see if the shadowing gets better or worse. Wait to see when and If I need to dose again. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 22nd, 2003, 8:43am JAY JAY JAY HOOTCH Am online all day, don´t wanna miss any messages. I´m so glad it´s going well for you, damn! Just sit tight and wait until the pattern reveiles clearly ... well, the experts will tell ya´how to dose, don´t worry. Hannah PS not too bad ourselves. Jos had a PF night too! It almost "fried my bum". You might say "How come?" ::) ... well, I always leave my electric blanket on untill the "first call", that is when I hear him downstairs. When I go back to bed, only then I shut the electric blanket off, so that will be after one hour or something. But now ... no calls downstairs .... so I didn´t wake up ... blanket getting hotter and hotter in the meantime, i remember dreaming about being on fire or talking to Satan in Hell ;;D ;;D ;;D eventually I did wake up in the morning, but by then my butt was fiery red with the heat, darn was that HOT! [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] I hope stuff will continue to go in the right direction, still sitting tight (ehm ... when my butt allows me too). Go for it Hootch, I´m witcha! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 22nd, 2003, 10:06am Hey Hootch!!! Good news so far! Looks like you got a good start! I have a feeling that the prednisone still in your system may have blocked things enough to keep you from that "draining, flushed" feeling but you've obviously made some progress. If a 2nd dose is needed, you'll be in a much better position since you'll be further away from all those meds. May the "flush" be with you!! Hannah, Jos gets a full nights sleep PLUS his woman has a hot ass!! What more could a guy ask for!! Tell him we'll have no more complainin!!! ::) All kiddin aside Hannah.....It sounds like things have settled in at a much better level and are still getting even better, although it's slower than any of us hoped. I think this extended break from all treatments plus the lowered pain cycle will put Jos in a great position to finally break this cycle. I know you worry, so I'll just continue having great confidence in not only the treatment, but also you and Jos. Hope today continues to bring improvement for all involved. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 22nd, 2003, 10:34am Awesome Hootch!!!!!!!!!! ;;D The flushing feeling doesn't happen to me every time I dose and usually not from the first dose. It's something that happens for me while I'm feeling the effects of the shrooms and it usually means that afterwards my head will be cleared of CH and the little twinges. I get those same twinges. In the past I have dosed again to get rid of them. But at this point you should wait and see how things go. Really Great News! Hannah, Good to hear Jos had a GOOD night! I'm really hoping things continue to improve! I've been working on a new invention. I plugged it in last night for the first time. I designed it to send out continuous Good Vibes. It’s called the Goodvibesamiser. Sounds like I need to make some setting adjustments. I've had several complaints about butts turning red and hot. My apologies. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 22nd, 2003, 12:14pm Hanah, Great new for Jos and you also. I know its been one hell of a road for the both of you. Almost feel guilty getting such relief from the first dose. Be patient with Jos, as you have been. I know for me it is almost like having to reprogram myself to a new way of life. For me every day for the last five months my entire focus is just getting by from one headache to next. You function every day because you have to but you heart and soul just isn’t in it then once you start feeling better you don’t know how to act. I think Jos might be experiencing some of the same things emotionally. You have been one hell of a supporter for Jos, I know its been rough, once you get through these headaches (AND YOU WILL) you and Jos can get back to healing yourselves from all the hell you’ve been through. I know myself and my wife have some to do ourselves. Take care, keep us updated. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 22nd, 2003, 5:40pm All clear here. Not even a twinge since "watching the game" on Saturday. True test will be next fall, will the beast even come a knocken? Emotionally draining Hannah, hang tough. Jos needs you now more than he knows in his current state of mind. I know, I've been there. I have to admit that I may not still be here if I did not have a close supporter and this treatment. It will pass and you two will be all the closer for going through it. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 22nd, 2003, 6:32pm Update, Shadowing today has been improved over yesterday. Did get hit about 4:00 with something. Seemed to a little more intense than a shadow but not a full blown Cluster Headache either. Maybe a 2-4 on the pain scale also seemed to have lasted longer than any of the other previous shadows. The previous have all been extremely short in duration most lasting less then 5-10 minutes. This one at 4 lasted 30-45 minutes. Would appear the beast is still trying to find a way in. Looks like I will dose again to kill any remaining shadows and make sure nothing takes a foot hold. Question for anybody. If the shadows due tend to increase in intensity am I better off dosing right away or waiting a couple of extra days to make sure all receptors are open. To clarify, the earliest I would dose would be Wednesday which would be 4 days and the latest would be Saturday which will be a full 7 days. Any experience with waiting too long and the cycle reestablishing itself? Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 23rd, 2003, 1:03am on 12/22/03 at 18:32:18, hootchdom wrote:
Here's what *I* would consider.. 1. Unless things were getting real close to back to square one after that very clear period you had, I'd wait the full five days. 2. With what you've been through, whats one more day. Not waiting may prolong things more than they need to be. 3. If you are concerned about dosing on Christmas... a. what better present could you give yourself and family. b. I'd "assume" that the resulting attack schedule after the 2nd dose will be similar to that after the first. They seem to be similar for many people. (if you get 24 hours free after the dose and then a couple days of shadows, you'll probably be close to that with the 2nd) Hopefully though, it will steadily diminish after that. c. Therefore..if you don't think that schedule will fit with whats going on with the holidays, maybe you do want to dose on wednesday night? Or, maybe you can just take a few hour break on Christmas day? I'm sure a lot of things are going through your mind, with the shroom schedule conflicting with the holiday schedule. I guess, lets see how the next couple of days play out. happy holidays..... ;;D PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 23rd, 2003, 1:44am Hi all, First thing every morning, to check in here and see how the troopers are ;;D. Jmin and Hootch, you both seem to be doing really well, jeeezzz! That is so FAST! Flounder yes can you please get my vibe-sender adjusted, it gets too hot during the night when you guys are all up and I'm asleep. I need a vibe-sender that takes the time difference in account ;;D ;;D ;;D. Hannah ;;D PS I'm so happy for you guys! Wow!!! PS2 Jos is doing okay, not PF anymore, some shadows some attacks, but it is still going the right way veeeeery slowly. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 23rd, 2003, 6:27am Hootch - there is no set time limit on dosing other than waiting as long as possible between doses. Dose too soon and the shrooms will be less effective. So the longer you can leave it the better. However CH operates to the opposite principle. The longer you leave it the more painful and harder to dislodge it gets. So what I recommend is that if you are only experiencing twinges then just hold off as long as possible. As soon as one of the twinges breaks through then dose, provided 5 days has passed. People have tried shortening the 5 day rule, but dosing after less than 5 days tends to be ineffective and then means no more dosing for another 5 days. For this reason I caution against consuming any psilocybin including sputniks during that 5 day period. That was you get maximum impact. Henk initially had the same dilema, but he appears to have a very strong will, and managed to go the 5 days (and without trex). Pretty quickly he found that he could go the whole 5 days without pain, and then began to strech it out. Eventually he got to a month a realised that he was clear of CH. So he with the strongest willpower suffers less in the long run. Since you have managed to fully detox (and not many do) I don't expect you to have too much trouble sticking to the 5 day regime. Worst case scenario within a month you'll be getting all 5 days PF between doses. However I wouldn't rule out a knockout blow before then... Also - I do not recommend increasing the dose. Since you got a good solid effect, then if anything I'd reduce it slightly: DO NOT EXCEED LEVEL 2. Also be aware that I have never needed to exceed level 1, and I have used this treatment for a looooong time. If memory serves me correctly, then Henk was also able to gradually decrease the dose over time. Hope this advice helps! Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 23rd, 2003, 6:49am This was sent internally though Cluster Busters, but it's something a lot of people have been asking for so I've posted it here also. In addition i will append this same information to the big thread so that it doesn't become lost. The person that did all this work is TommyD, the following extract is in TommyD's words lifted directly fropm his post. I hope he doesn't mind me posting this!!! Please also be aware that Cluster Busters has full details of all these case historys. TommyD: "There are treatment reports from a total of 71 people. 56 are positive reports; 15 are negative, questionable or indeterminant. Of the total, there are 18 reports from chronics, 36 from episodics, and 17 reports are undetermined - meaning I couldn't figure out for sure from the reports whether the clusterhead was chronic or episodic. Successful treatment reports, total = 56 (78.9% ) Negative treatment reports, total = 15 (21.1%) Successful treatment reports from chronics = 11 (61.1 %) Negative or questionable reports from chromics = 7(38.9 %) Successful treatment reports from episodics = 31 (86.1 %) Negative or questionable reports from episodics = 5 (13.9 %) However - Not all the negative reports are outright failures of the treatment. Four of the reports are incomplete, with subject usually making at least some inital progress, but then the reports stop (or at least I can't find any further posts) after a week or two. Of these, 2 are chronic, 1 episodic, 1 unknown. In two other cases, one chronic one episodic, the treatment worked at first, then stopped. The chronic later tried the gamma knife procedure, results unknown. In another two cases, the treatment relievd the clusters, but the subjects decided to switch to another treatment. One of these cases was a chronic, and was having to dose weekly and was finding the trip unpleasent, and switched to botox injections, which worked. The other did not indicate episodic or chronic, but the trips were unpleasent and included anxiety attacks. In these cases, psilocybin was effective, but not efficacious...or is it efficacious but not effective... Two others, both episodic, had only very limited success, and went back to conventional meds. Five had no luck at all. (three chronics, one episodic, one unknown). Two of these reports may have come from the same person, but I'm not sure so I count both reports. Some of these reports show use of Imitrex or other meds during treatment -- however, there are also success reports from folks using Imitrex and such. Droppping the four incomplete reports from the calculation, we get an 83.6 percent success rate overall. Now understand this "survey" is completely unscientific and not generalizable. The sample is too small and the research methods invalid. But the numbers fit with various estimates of success rates pretty well. I had been guessing conservatively at 80 percent. But I expect these numbers will hold up pretty well with scientific clinical trials. And I'm damn sure the ClusterBuster treatment beats any conventional med all to hell." I'd like to add to this that most of the people trying this treatment have screwed up in one way or another. This includes ineffective shrooms, overdosing, underdosing, running out of shrooms, failure to detox, failure to wait the alloted time between dosing, sneaking shots of Imitex, staying on other preventative meds, dosing at the worst possible moment, failing to take preventative doses... So taking all that into account and still achieving a success rate of over 80% is pretty astounding. In my opinion the true success rate would be closer to 100%. The bottom line is: DO IT PROPERLY AND IT WORKS. Thanks again to Tommy D. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 23rd, 2003, 7:37am Last night wasn’t the greatest, wasn’t the worst either. As I said earlier got hit about 4:00 yesterday with something for than a shadow. 8:00 rolls around and I do get hit with a cluster headache around a KIP 4-5 lasted about 45 minutes. Went to sleep around 10:00 and got hit hard about 2 hours later KIP 7-8 lasted about ˝ hour. Seems like the cycle is starting to reestablish itself. I can live with all of this knowing that there is help waiting for me. As far as the next dose goes. Once again I’m in such a dilemma, thinking about dosing xmas eve (Wed) which would be 4 days in the hopes of having a pain free xmas, what a gift to the family. On the other hand waiting one or two more days to make sure this dose has the desired effect is no big deal also. After battling this thing for 5 months I can fight through 2 or 3 days of these things knowing what the end result will be. There doesn’t seem to be any great censuses out there other than the more time the better. Also plan on dropping down to 1g as opposed to 1.5g on the first dose. Had very good effect with the 1.5g maybe even a tad on the high side (plus 2 experience). Going to try and bring it down just a notch. I greatly appreciate all the information everyone is putting out there. It does help !!!!! Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 23rd, 2003, 8:13am Under the circumstances I'd go for Christmas Eve - but only cos it's Christmas. 1 gram dried. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 23rd, 2003, 8:35am Christmas eve would be my recommendation also. If you plan on watching the Grinch, do not......I repeat do not under any circumstances obtain above a low level two! :) He's an evil one that MR. Grinch! Hannah, Understand that although I wiped the bastard out with one dose, I was not anywhere near due my cycle. I WAS however due my maintence dose. I have a feeling that my head was telling me "maintain now!" I could be wrong on this but I had two definate shadows prior to maintaining. Since I am not due until late spring, fall of next year I will need to keep an eye on it. My hopes for you and Jos are once you get this thing under control, you can begin streatching out the PF periods in between dosing until you are on a 4 to 6 month maintence schedule. I truelly believe this is an option for you two as Jos, although not cured, has shown some remarkable progress in the severity of his attacks. Good luck, jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 23rd, 2003, 3:57pm Hi all Jmin, you were having shadows right? So if you take the mushrooms then and they stay away, well that 's GOOD. I wouldn't have wished for you that stuff got worse first ... but ofcourse you're right, you wouldn't expect that if you're preventing rather then breaking off. Hootch, whatever you're gonna decide on dosing, I hope it works out for you. Little update from here. We had hoped so much we could celebrate a quiet PF Christmas, but alas, the Gods of Cluster Headache decided differently (well , IF they are gods anyway, they might be hell's angels ....). He's been PF for one night, but the more the attacks go away the more this weird heaaches come back. I don't mean normal headache, and not just "shadowing", I mean he has sick headache, he's a bit nauseaus and feels very sickly, it's more in the directon of a very very tough migraine, but he says it still feels different (he knows a migraine when he has one!). His eyes are swollen so he can't really open them and he can't rest his head in the pillow because of the soreness. If you ask him his honest opinion he says he's rather has the 5 mild attacks each day like he has had for a few days then this headache. Unfortunately now he has both, if he has a mild attack, it doesn't seem to want to go AWAY at all, so he has headache all day. You can tell it's not a normal headache because it will absolutely not go by aspirine, he still feels like he wants to take aspirin but he quit that because it doesn't help anyway, not a bit, not even if he takes 6. He is getting a bit desperate :-[ with it, and he's getting enough of me saying "it will pass" and "it is getting better" and "we ARE going in the right direction". He just feels sick and fed up and upset and depressed with it. So it's difficult, if not impossible to still cheer him up. I remember someone saying if there might be something else wrong inside of his head, something together with cluster. I can't be 100% sure ofcourse, perhaps it's better to have that checked out first, I don't know. It's been over a week now since we dosed our last (7th) dose of mushrooms. I wonder what would be best to do. Still wait? This might go on for another two or three weeks. He had something similar in his last cycle, after the real attacks stopped, he had spells of headaches that were close to an attack, but they were different too, with lots of stitches (like now) and pain, but not real attacks. They still woke him up during the night for more then a few months. We finally got rid of that with acupuncture (which we tried IN cycle too, was for us not a good idea to try it IN cycle though). I hope it won't be like that this time, my God ..... I'd better set him up for some therapy :-[ and for myself as well ..... I wish I had a cheerful update but this is it. I don't really know what to do. I've got the "it will go better"-story spelled out in my pocket, but he can't hear it anymore. |
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Title: MaybeRe: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 23rd, 2003, 5:29pm Hannah, I used to get a headache described exactly like you have described, on a regular basis during my cycles. I had two different types of cycles. One, where I would consistently go a couple of days with a set number of cluster attacks each day. The third day I would have a headache like this that would last all day and nothing would touch it, not imitrex, dhe, 02...nothing. It would only go away after finally falling asleep from exhaustion and waking up without it. I would then go about 24 hours headache free before the cycle would start again. This pattern was common for most of my 23 years with clusters. It would change when I finally would progress to the point of getting up to 12 attacks per day, non-stop. It would then take something drastic to "cool off" the cycle. IV Histamine therapy, long massive doses of prednisone....and finally shrooms. All that history said....I have also recently had similar situations. Whenever I was nearing what would be the time for a maintenance dose, I would get one of these headaches. I would dose and not worry again for several months. This being late fall, and my worst time of the year, historically, I had one of these "headaches" that you described the other day. The dose took some of the discomfort away but not all. Still takes a good nights sleep, as difficult as that may be. I'm not sure what all of this even means or where I'm heading with this other than to relate my experiences to your (jos') situation and try to figure it out. Maybe all the constant pain from the attacks just has all the neurotransmitters firing wildly, including those closely related to the area of the trigeminal nerve. Maybe it's the body spreading out the pain in an attempt to help it dissapate. Here's what I would do....take it for what its worth. (2 cents american) If he is headache free tomorrow, or close to it, I'd dose with whatever it is you and he decide to go with. I'd maybe even do it tonite but then remember that it *might* not take away all the residual pain right away. I'd still go with the reduced dose that we discussed here before (3g or so) The eye thing has me somewhat concerned. Swollen shut? or it just hurts to open them. Does he press heavily against his eyes during acute attacks, like many of us do? Sounds like all of his facial nerves are inflamed. I believe this probably from the prolonged cluster attacks. all our best, PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 24th, 2003, 8:04am Had a great day yesterday :), NO CLUSTER HEADACHES. Still getting hit twice at night. Much shorter in duration and pain. Did have one hell of a migraine yesterday evening that lasted till I went to sleep >:(. Strange because I normally don’t get migraines. Planning on dosing today, ;;D which I’m hoping will be the knock out punch. Hannah, I also agree with Pink, after what Jos has been through with the clusters I wouldn’t expect the head to be back to normal right away. I’ve had some headaches since dosing Saturday but they have not been “Clusters”, not to say they are not painful but they are a lot easier to deal with knowing the are just headaches. I also chalk this up to what my head has gone through for 5 months. I figure once the cycle is broken, then I’ll deal with the others if they are still there. Wondering if the dose I’m going to take today may help with these other headaches also. Haven’t had time to search the achieves but was wondering if the treatment has had any effect on migraines? Lisa, my wife will occasionally go through a spat with migraines after seeing the profound effect the shrooms has had on my clusters (when nothing else would) she was wondering if there is any evidence that shrooms would help migraines? Merry Christmas, Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 24th, 2003, 8:40am Here it is in color. This clearly shows the profound effect the treatment has had on my headaches. First graph shows two days prior to the first dose, second graph shows two the two days after. http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc05b3127cce84cd3bec297c0000003610 http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cc05b3127cce84cd3befa84f0000001610 |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 24th, 2003, 4:14pm on 12/24/03 at 08:04:40, hootchdom wrote:
Great news on the progress Hootch! I'll tell you about migraines but keep it under your hat!! ;) LOL. It's one thing if we start tapping into pharmaceutical cluster medication profits, but if they see us about to wipe out the profits off of 25 million migraine sufferers, we might start getting death threats. 8) I hope every migrainer finds out but I hope no one from Glaxo is reading....or anyone that owns 10,000 shares of Glaxo stock. ::) That said, the early work with psilocybin included migraines and was showing great success from what I've seen/heard. I know several migraineurs that have had success, not just as an abortive but as a preventive. Actually, I think one spouse here aborted a migraine just by chopping up the shrooms for her husband and absorbing just a little psilocybin through her finger tips. The doses for migraine appear to be even smaller than for clusters. What many people do, just to stop a shadow (a small piece or cap under the tongue) is plenty for some migraines. Just as there are "degrees" of cluster cycles, so to are there degrees of migraine attacks and the whallop needed to knock them for a loop. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 26th, 2003, 8:04am Update, Frequency of headaches were starting to increase much more milder than before. Did not want to dose Christmas eve for fear it may unleash something wanted to enjoy Christmas day with the family, which I did. Dosed 1g Christmas night, my gift to the beast. No headaches over night which was great. Woke up this morning feeling terrific wouldn’t be surprised if that was the knockout punch. Thanks for the reply pink on the migraines. Will print off and take to Lisa, she is going to be ecstatic and I’m sure will try with next migraine. Hannah, I hope Jos is also having a PF holiday. Who is going to be the next one to step up so we can keep the thread going? Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 26th, 2003, 9:08am Hi Hay I love the smilies ;;D ;;D ;;D. Now which one do I like best? Perhaps >:( :o or :-*. This is fun.... Hootch, you're doing so great, I'm so glad for you. I'm sure it won't take you a lot of time before your beast is kicked out of the door. I would tell you about what happened here, but don't wanna spoil your Christmas-moods :o, with our constant "this is not going right" and "that is not going right", I am almost getting bored with myself. So I just tell that basically we're still heading in the right direction but it still is tough here and there, especially the nights are hard. Got another problem on the side, in the family with my mum ... ugh sad story. Well, I just hope for the next 7 years my beloved ones and me had our share of troubles, why not, there should be an end to it somewhere, don't you think? Here's some smiles for everyone from Jos and me :D cute .... [smiley=laugh.gif] cute too .... ::) even cuter. ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by 9erfan on Dec 26th, 2003, 7:48pm Ok, I feel like I'm interrupting a conversation among friends....scuse me.. ;;D This has been an amazing thread. I have finally finished reading all thirteen pages of it! Hannah, I can't believe everything you've been through. Jos has been really lucky to have a supporter like you. I have finally gotten to the point where I believe shrooms are my next option to try (been chronic for 5 years with this current cycle being every day since Feb, 2001). I know there is not as much success with chronics, but what do I have to lose? Right now, I'm just waiting for my christmas present to come in the mail from a friend.. Here's my question, you guys have spoken extensively about getting off Imitrex. That's not an issue for me because it's never worked for me, so I don't take it. Currently, I'm on 480 mg of Verap. Do I need to get off that too? What about over-the-counter meds such as Ibuprofen? For 3 years, that's all I took because of no medical insurance and now that I do have insurance I've been trying to get off the OTC's but it's been a long process. Any thoughts on these other meds? Thanks, Virginia |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 27th, 2003, 2:05am on 12/26/03 at 09:08:37, HannahFroukje wrote:
Just posting to let you know that basically, we're still here and not getting bored. I think we're getting more determined. We'll be waiting to see what's in those packages under your tree. I'm sure that Jos knows that his most valued gift has been sitting next to him though all of this and doesn't need to be unwrapped. Very sorry about your Mom, Hannah. Wish i had something to offer to take away some of her pain. Have a good night PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 27th, 2003, 2:24am on 12/26/03 at 19:48:16, 9erfan wrote:
Hi Virginia, You're not interupting at all. We have a very liberal open door policy here!! Welcome. I don't know if I have any solid answers for you though. As to the Verapamil, there seems to be somewhat of a mixed outcome with this one. Some have broken them while on Verapamil but others not. I don't know if it makes a difference if you're chronic or episodic as to how much the verapamil might block the actions. I believe Roxy was on Verapamil when she started to try breaking the cycle but she also may have still been using Imitrex then too. You'd have to ask her for specifics and how she feels about this one. Is it helping with the attacks? Frequency, duration or intensity? The OTC's should be ok. You may find though that when you do try to get off of them, you may have a rebound problem to deal with as far as different types of headaches are concerned. Depending on how many you've been taking every day, even if the shrooms break the cycle, I don't know if I'd go cold turkey off of them. How many are you taking every day and how often? You didn't mention 02. I haven't tried to look back at your posted history. Do you have it? Does it work? Do you not use it because it didn't work? Even if it didn't work before and since you have insurance, you may want to get a set-up and give it a try if needed for help during the shroom threatment. It does work better for some after the first dose of shrooms, so it might end up being more helpful than in the past. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 27th, 2003, 3:48am on 12/27/03 at 02:05:08, Pinkfloyd wrote:
"doesn't need to be unwrapped"? :o ... pssst don't tell him I don't need to be unwrapped ... I wouldn't mind too much to be unwrapped under the Christmas tree ....;;D ;;D ;;D Without the kidding .... thanks Floyd ... It's good to be always aware of the fact that your health and living without pain with your loved ones is indeed the biggest gift on earth. But must say after a cycle if things go back to normal, you realise even more that Christmas, the real Christmas, is about love and kindness of heart and sticking together even in hard times. So it won't be a problem if we celebrate our "real" Christmas on any other day, it will stll be there ... unwrapped or not ;;D Oh by the way, he got a head start on me with giving presents, I had ordered some books to find out stuff about clusterheadache herbs, homeopathics and such, in an effort to get any "cleverder". But bill didn't arrive. So after some time I checked with the company if they forgot the bill. And found out that one Mr. Jos had been paying for them .... cute huh ... he knows I loooove books I want to have everything on paper so I can dig through it any time I get a good thought Back to the topic: Jos is improving now, after going through a few (Christmas)days and night with the really bad headache. He is still bothered by headache here and there, but he has been without real attacks for some time now (for a while the headaches bothered him more then a kip 4-5, to give you an idea). These particular headache seems to have replaced the attacks. He did wake up this morning, with a "regular" headache this time, not a "cluster headache" this time. >:( >:( >:( Jeezzz this guy has at least 6 or 7 if not more different kinds of headaches and migraine, ... luckily I'm able now to tell them a bit apart, so I could convince him that this was a "dog-walk" headache. He came back feeling much better (dog too). I have gotten a bit further with how to handle the headaches. Tryptophan seem to be working on at least one sort of headache (the nightly headache). Did someone know that B6 is supposed to transfer tryptophan to serotonine? Not that tryptophan is doing a lot in clusterheadache, I'm not saying that, but perhaps I've got (well, Jos) two different (or related) problems here ... Hi Virginia, nice that you joined us. You must have read the other success stories here on shrooms. Ofcourse you're welcome! You must have noted the fact that I was a lot here with my mouth wide open, well that was because things didn't go too smooth for us (though it definately helped us a lot), but hey, for some people it can be really easy, it's not always hard! So it's a good thing if you give it a try! You will get a lot of support here if you need it, it's fantastic what people have achieved in only a few weeks time. Just fantastic! I wish all that are trying the shrooms right now the best of luck. Be convinced you can beat this thing, I know you can beat this, you will get through it (or prevent it), it is something that really helps. Hoping on a good PF or reasonably PF Christmas for all of you. Greetings from Holland to everyone, Hannah |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 27th, 2003, 8:40am Took approximately 1g Christmas night. Don’t think I reached a level 1. Had 3 cluster headaches Friday reaching KIP 5-6 which have probably been the most intense since my first dose 1 week ago today. Life is still great compared to what it was before the first dose. It would appear that amount of dose may play a major role in affecting the headaches. I thought that after the first dose, level 2 or slightly higher, and the profound effect it had I would be able to back off on the 2nd dose and completely close the door on the beast. Question for the ones who know, with reaching such a low level on the 2nd dose will the receptors open quicker? Would it be possible to dose again at 3 days or I’m I better off waiting longer? Life is still great compared to the hell I was living in but I’m still looking for that knockout punch. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 27th, 2003, 8:56am Welcome Virginia, you have come to the right place. Listen to what advice these guys have to offer it has helped me immensely. From what I have read and my own experience I believe detoxing from any meds you are on will up the chances of quicker success. Read the thread started by Flash posting the information compiled by Tommy D (sure you already have). I believe the data collected to date reinforces the theory of being med free while attempting this treatment. Even though detoxing can be hell, keep the end result in mind and it becomes well worth it. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Dec 27th, 2003, 10:48am on 12/27/03 at 08:40:17, hootchdom wrote:
They might. It's hard to say for sure. I believe that everyone is different in regards to the time it takes for the receptors to become fully clear. I would see how things go. If things improve and you can wait longer than do. If you see your CH's ramping back up than dose again. Try to give it at least 3 days. You may want to take vitamin C (1000 mg) on the day you dose, this is supposed to increase the effects somewhat. Go back to the 1 1/2 gm. This seems to be an effective amount for the shrooms you are using. I thought dropping down to 1 gm would be fine but you just have to learn your own system and find what works best for you. It may take 4 or 5 doses to break you’re cycle. Some people have broken their cycle with 1 or 2 but it usually takes me 3-5 to break a cycle completely. Good luck Hootch, you’re doing Great! ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 27th, 2003, 1:15pm Wait the full 5 days at least. Remember that everytime you dose things will get shaken up a bit, so there may be a brief increase in attacks after dosing. What matters most is how things are on the 4th or 5th day after dosing, they provide the best indicators. So far in my opinion things are looking good for you. The size of the dose may not matter either. You may have experienced exactly the same thing with the larger dose... many people have. In my opinion you only need to reach level 1-2 maximum. Maybe dose somewhere between the 2 levels. Verapamill: there are mixed reports but it's worth a go. Definately no triptans, ergots, predisone, or lithium though. Avoid OTC painkillers as these have been proven to massively aggrivate the condition - I know this from firsthand experience. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by forgetfulnot on Dec 27th, 2003, 6:16pm Quote:
Not to disagree Flash but being chronic I take verapamil 480mg and lithium 6-900 mg and have had very good success with mushies for about a year now. I did try and back down a bit on the ver/lith but I got hit right away. So in my case anyway I need all three to be halfway normal for a change. I still get some late sleep cycle hits but O2 runs them off, more annoying than anything else. Just my 2 cents, Lee |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 28th, 2003, 3:35am I have to fill in on a piece of info that I didn't report yet, because it was too early to say anything sensible about it, but I think it's time to clear that up now. After getting Pink's advice on dosing again, I think that was the 23d ... Jos and I discussed it and in the night to follow we eventually decided on trying something else that might work broader then mushrooms and is in substance a bit related to it, its kinda like LSD (name is LSA), it's herbal. I haven told this yet, because we were the first to try, and I wanted to wait-and-see what it does first. Now this is still perhaps something for the don't-try-this-at-home department, and if anyone would like to try, get yourself some advice on it from me (email) or the clusterbusterteam. Don't just go and try it! One detail: It's not suitable for pregnant women, mind you. I would stick to mushrooms for those who don't need it, for the time being until a few other CH-heads tried it and got good results like we did. 8) It sounds only logical though that it helps because it resembles LSD a lot. For us it seemed the right moment to try and be the Guinea Pig for this. We could have taken another dose of mushrooms, but I and especially Jos wondered if that would have still worked, because he took so much of that, and the last dose didnt seem to be working at all, it looked like he had gotten numb to it. Well anyway, on this herbal LSD we got pretty much the same effect then on mushrooms, first a period of PF (during the trip), this lasted for 22 hours. He felt really great in that period. Then - unfortunately this was on Christmas day and night - he got a bad reaction, I have been telling about this, this was on Christmas eve and night. I started him on supplements and vitamins. Since the LSA-trip he hasn't had any more attacks but he did have headache spells, starting on CHristmas night with the worst. To cut a long story short (trying to ... ;;D), the second night and day were lots better, and the improvement has not stopped since. If you look at how he has been feeling, you see a big peak including the period of the trip itsself and the period right after (22 hours), then a big dip, and then you see the line pull up again towards the peak with dips in the nights, but gradually improving. Now we're on the peak again, he's feeling really GOOD. Only problem left is that he wakes up with a hangover headache, but that is getting lots less too. He's been "technically" PF for a few nights (4 or 5) in a row now, but that includes the night after the trip where he slept like a log, and the night after that when he had the "night from hell" because of all the headaches blended in one big Headache-Christmas-mix, which wasn't really a nice Christmas gift at all :( :( :(. But alas, perhaps with us it has to get worse first before it gets better. I wonder if it will still be coming back. If it does, I think we personally would choose to go for the LSA again. Mushrooms did do us a lot of good and I think in the long run it would have gotten us PF too, but I get the idea that LSA is working deeper or broader, and for Jos that's perhaps better. We are definately going to do maintenance doses on I think the shrooms and/or LSA. And I think it would be wise for us to use some supplements like vitamine B and lecithine and we are planning to use melatonine and tryptophane (but these last two not in the period before we will be doing mushrooms). We're not going to take any risk now, we're gonna try with all we can now to prevent the next cycle (that would be due within 2 years so that's a long wait). So ... I hope this was our last one ... I hope it's all over now, we still have to celebrate our Christmas ... for Jos that starts with a BEER [smiley=beer.gif], if he can have one without getting an attack, then he will know for sure that he's through! He didn't want to take the risk and try that yet .... I will report back if anything happens in the headache department ;;D I won't leave here, because I will want to know how the other's are doing ofcourse and I would be really curious about others trying the mushrooms. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by 9erfan on Dec 29th, 2003, 1:20pm Thanks for the welcome everyone and the advice. Yes, I do use oxygen and it does help to abort some of the more mild headaches. It doesn't help as much for the 10's. I've spoke to Roxy about the Verap & shrooms. From what I understand the first few times she dosed she was on Verap & trex and now she is trying to detox off both and having a very difficult time. I think the verap is helping a little but I haven't been at 480mg for very long. And my neuro has already said that he won't go higher than 480. I haven't moved forward on the shrooms yet....waiting for some xmas presents in the mail... Talk to you all later, V. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Dec 30th, 2003, 7:29am HF - tell them about what happened when he drank alcohol |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 30th, 2003, 3:08pm You mean us, Flash? 5 days after Jos dosed LSA he felt so good, and said he could feel his cycle was over. I don't know how he could be so sure, but he was sure it was. And he drank a beer. Now I was NOT in favour of the beer, because it is one of his sure triggers, and I thought it was too soon after dosing. But he was determined to try it, he says he feels so good, he was SURE nothing would happen (don't worry babe ...[smiley=beer.gif], okay ... gonna get it myself ... [smiley=worried.gif]). And nothing happened. Not a shadow, just nothing. Time to unwrap the presents for us ... it's really OVER and done with. ;;D ;;D ;;D We have to think about our maintenance doses. I wonder how much to dose and WHAT because in our case it was so hard to break the cycle and mushrooms seemed to knock the little bastard inside unconscious for a while, but it didn't really kill it off and that little nasty thing kept getting back on his feet and giving him either attacks or headaches. Perhaps best to dose LSA too, make it twice a year on mushrooms and twice LSA. Don't know yet. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 30th, 2003, 4:07pm Hannah, Congratulations to you and Jos. Your perseverance sure did pay off. The both of you should be applauded. I hope this thread and in particular your story serves as a guide for those who can not find relief from any traditional treatments. Your story will give hope to those in despair. If I remember right I believe there was something mentioned about a gathering in the park once Jos was cured. Not sure that will happen but at the very least you could post a picture of Jos enjoying a beer. Don’t become a stranger, we all feel like we have gotten to know you. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Dec 30th, 2003, 4:22pm Still getting shadows throughout the day, nothing that I can’t handle. Also getting hit with one or two Clusters a day. They don’t last as long as they used to and maybe have only had two KIP 8 since first dose almost two weeks ago most have been in the 3-5 range. As I stated earlier I think I may have underdosed the 2nd go round, if that is possible, did not see any positive effects from it. Am going to attempt 3rd dose soon, will be one week New Years day since 2nd dose. Will revert back to 1.5g which is what I dosed with the first time. Life is still great compared to what it was before the treatment but would like to put this cycle to rest for good so I can toast all those who have succeeded with a scotch and water, its been oh so long. Hootchodm |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 30th, 2003, 5:06pm Hey Hootch, you don't seem to be doing bad yourself! By the sound of it, with another dose or maybe two you'll get there, don't you think? Ahm ... now about that gathering ... when do I pick you up from the Airport? ;;D ;;D ;;D. Hee hee, we can get mushrooms around the corner and dose happily together ;;D ;;D ;;D, I'd be happy to get the Scotch single malts afterwards. Hang in there Hootch, you're on our minds ... sending VIBESSSSS you know. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 31st, 2003, 12:29am on 12/30/03 at 16:22:38, hootchdom wrote:
You realize don't you, that dosing on New Years Day (or Eve) puts you on a schedule to do your 6 month maintenance dose on the......4th of July. Independance Day!! ;;D Have Great New Year Hootch, and everyone else. I've heard rumors that one side effect of the shrooms is that around Christmas time, you get to unwrap your presents several times....sometimes more than once in the same day. Any truth to that rumor Hannah? :o Be well everyone! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Dec 31st, 2003, 5:05am ;;D ;;D ;;D Once you're PF my advice would be to just unwrap anything that needs unwrapping ... then you're always on the safe side. We intend to leave our Christmas tree in place untill summer, just to remind us of the bliss we felt right after Christmas when all was finally over and to remind ourselves of the fact that health and the love of your beloved ones are the biggest gifts of all. :-* |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Peppermint on Dec 31st, 2003, 10:13am *tap, tap*.. excuse me.. Hi. I have been following (at least really trying to follow)this thread every few days... I jumped to the last two pages, its a lot to absorb. I am amazed, especially in Jos and Hannah's case (hi there), because the perseveranvce truly paid off. I wonder how many others kept "hitting the wall" with this treatment, and had they followed through, would have found success. Sure, its easy to speculate, but the testimonies here are incredible, the information is priceless. Pink, TommyD, Flash and all the "guiders", your dedication has changed LIVES. LIVES man! I am sending this thread by email to a (chronic) friend who has considered this treatment but never tried it... for fear of what, I am not sure anymore... but DAMN I think its worth a real try. Considering the numerous times going on prednisone only to have to jump back on it again, it is scary to think of the long term cumulative affects the pred will wreak. Keep going guys and sorry for interrupting. Hopefully, there is a chance. Congratulations to those who've found the key....Good luck to all you out there that go for it as well. May you find success and a pain free life. Peppermint |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 31st, 2003, 1:06pm Peppermint, Thanks very much. The easy part is sitting on THIS side of the keyboard. The real work is done by those that are living through the detox period and breaking their cycles. Knowing what is possible makes it easier for us that have already experienced it. Years of broken promises and shattered hopes from the medical community no doubt leaves people constantly questioning themselves (and us) about if what lies ahead is another broken promise. The questions about why it takes longer for some than others are many. We may all start out with relatively similar neurological systems but who's to say what changes in actions and responses are caused by years of medications, pain and environmental impacts. Whether or not every cycle can be broken is difficult to answer but I do think there are things that can be modified or "tweaked" so to speak, that will give everyone a very good chance of breaking their cycle. Decades of medical research has produced nothing to date that will break cycles consistantly. Different places have their own theories and methods but none of them come close to this treatment. If there was anything that worked on this consistant a basis, every clinic in the world would be using it instead of trying all of the less than optomistic methods (DHE, IV Histamine, Prednisone, surgery) Research has not determined what changes occur that cause some people to have episodic cycles vs. chronic cycles. Obviously there are differences, so it would stand to reason that there would need to be something different happening to break the cycles. Either a slightly different "treatment" or possibly something done to bring the "chronic's" neurological system back to how it was operating when it was episodical. I'm told that 90% of chronics start out as episodic sufferers. Only 10% of cluster sufferers are chronic and only 10% of those, begin with what is termed primary chronic cluster where they start the clusters and they don't remit. So, if there are 200,000 cluster sufferers, only 2000 of those begin their cluster journey as chronics. (18,000 others "develope" chronic cycles) When we find out the neurological difference between these 2000 people and the remaining 198,000 people, we'll make some big strides in treatment. As our own research continues and expands, and when "official" research begins, some important questions will be answered. As we pin down the "mechanism of action" many things will become clear. As this tread should make clear to everyone, it's extremely important to have a strong, caring and determined support system around you when you attempt to break a cycle. I don't think you'll find that in too many medical abstracts. Pfloyd |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 31st, 2003, 1:15pm on 12/27/03 at 18:16:49, forgetfulnot wrote:
Hi Lee, I meant to comment on this earlier. Sorry Actually, the reason that Lithium is said to be avoided, is because it will "enhance" the actions of psilocybin. So, staying on it won't "block" the actions but can significantly enhance the effects. At least the hallucinogenic effects. Since most eveyone has been off lithium during their psilocybin treatments, we wouldn't know if it actually enhances the cluster "busting" effects. If you haven't had any problems using them in conjunction, I wouldn't worry about it. It's just easier to tell people what to expect if lithium is removed from the equation. You already know what to expect ;;D PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Dec 31st, 2003, 2:43pm Peppermint, Thanks for the words of encouragement although we are a determined bunch, aren't we. Some more than others of course (Floyd, Pink, Flash....) but I must agree that the easy part is the advice and support. I am only trying to "repay" the gift that has been given to me. There was a time when I would live in fear of my next episode. They were always more intense and lasted longer than the episode before. Actually they come closer together (was every 24 months, then 22, then 20, then 18....). I no longer fear the cycle. I no longer wonder how the hell I will survive another episode. Although I have great hopes that I will avoid ever getting hit again by maintenence dosing, I also have the peace of mind knowing that I can control it should it hit. It is truelly a liberating experience. The shackels of the beast are gone and I am free to live my life on my terms, not some Doctors terms of "this may help, how bout this, ever tried that"? As I have said before, If I can help even one person to find their freedom than I have helped so many more. Their friends, family and most of all the clusterhead all win in this scenario. I for one will not rest until this treatment has been formally studied, proven and made available (in some form) for all to use safely and openly. When that day comes we can all get together once a year to talk about the old days. "I used to walk 10 miles to school uphill both ways in the snow with only a pocket full of imetrex to keep me warm". You get the picture. Peace and PF new year to all, Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by forgetfulnot on Dec 31st, 2003, 4:17pm Quote:
I would say if your taking lithium cut the dose 25-50% to be safe, it doe's seem to have a magnifying effect. Lee ::) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 2nd, 2004, 7:19am Dosed 1.5g on New Years day reaching a level 2 experience. Has been full 7 days since 2nd dose. Clusters have been intensifying over last couple of days shadows have increased as well as pain level still only 2 headaches per day, which is good. I realize it has only been 2 weeks since first dose and the results have been amazing but once again I just can’t seem to get over the hump which I know will eventually happen. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 2nd, 2004, 7:32am Great progress hootch. I know it seems a bit frustrating but the hump you speak of is really no more than a speed bump compared to a regular cycle, correct? Under normal circumstances a level two should do the trick espec with 7 days in between. This is assuming all prescrip meds have left your system. Thanks for the update and keep em coming. jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Peppermint on Jan 2nd, 2004, 9:00pm on 12/31/03 at 13:06:39, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Ok, I know you're not wanting to take credit, but don't diminish the fact that you actually went through this all yourself. Being part of a pioneer group, its important to know that your guides KNOW. Especially for those folks that want to try it but are afraid - you know where they are coming from. THat matters big time. on 12/31/03 at 14:43:30, jminmilwaukee wrote:
Clearly, fear plays a huge role in the whole situation. Fear of something new, fear of the pain, fear it will not work. Just getting to the point where you are willing to go forward is a major accomplishment. How do you get someone there that fears the journey? "No Pare, sigue, sigue..!!" That means, don't stop, go on, go on!! As you said, one day, you'll be able to tell your battle stories... and those who come after you will never know how grateful they should be that you came before them. ..sorry for interrupting the thread again, I just think this is a reallly good chronicle for history... |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Jan 4th, 2004, 4:55am Hi Hootch and others. Have been looking in every day, your last update was jan. 2nd. How are you doing now? Did you take the hump? Hannah PS here's all fine. Will not surprise anyone I guess. Now we're going to try and avoid the next cycle! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 5th, 2004, 12:25pm WTF is happening? After 3rd dose on Thursday 1/1, Friday was hit by 3 headaches pain level increasing to KIP 7’s. Saturday hit with 4 headaches every 4 hours during day almost back to same cycle before 1st dosage. Sunday pain free all day except one minor CH at 6:00 am. Monday morning at 2:00am hit with a KIP 9. Had to hit the maxalt, was tired and hurting like a son of a bitch which now really pisses me off. Now have tightness in temple since woke up this morning. Have been shadowing most the morning at KIP 3. Symptoms are about the same as they were before my first dose. Why are these damn headaches reestablishing themselves? Thought I had them about licked. Waited 5 days between 1st and 2nd dose and 7 days between 2nd and 3rd dose did I wait too long? Now I’m beginning to worry and not sure what direction to take. Felt like I have been headed in right direction up till now. Tonight will have been 4 days since last dose and was planning on dosing again but with taking the maxalt last night wondering what effect it will have. Don’t know if I can or should wait any longer or go ahead and try a dose. Pissed and disheartened, Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 5th, 2004, 4:28pm on 01/05/04 at 12:25:08, hootchdom wrote:
Hey Hootch... No, you didn't wait too long. What was the activity the last couple of days before the last dose? Like on the 30th and 31st? How'd that last dose react? Any "draining" or feeling of your head clearing? These last attacks are probably a reaction to the last dose and not the cycle coming back. As usual, the 2nd, 3rd and sometimes the 4th day show an increase, It;s Flashes "pendulum" swinging back the other way...need to let it come to rest. Try your best to abort any future attacks without any triptans....02, ice, showers, cold air....sex?? :o hang in there PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 5th, 2004, 5:56pm Pink, Thanks for the words of encouragement. To give you an ideal of how it has been going since first dose. As you know I keep a daily pain total. To give you an ideal 240 was the worst day since I started keeping diary 11/16/2003 (cycle started end of July). When on a prednisone taper at max dosage (100mg/day) pain level for the day was running 30-80. When detoxed from meds pain level for the day would run between 150-180. I would say 210 or 220 plus is when I want to put a gun in my mouth and end it. 150-200 life sucks and can’t focus on much other then the headaches. 100-150 is where the headaches ran when I was on lithium, verapamil, topamax and lexapro (all at same time) and life still sucked and my mental state was fucked up from all the meds. 50-100 is where a steroid or 5 day dhe inject would put me and at least I could get some sleep at night. 25-50 probably getting hit with 2 or 3 headaches nothing over KIP 5, can deal with these days but still annoying and pain free days seem to be so near. 0-25 life is grand. My first dose was 12/20/03 so day 1 would be 12/21/03 which makes today day 16. Day -3 pain level 148 Day -2 pain level 173 Day -1 pain level 156 Day 0 pain level 136 (dosed 1.5g) (level 2) Day 1 pain level 55 Day 2 pain level 1 Day 3 pain level 4 Day 4 pain level 34 Day 5 pain level 24 (dosed 1g) (level 1 at most) Day 6 pain level 25 Day 7 pain level 0 Day 8 pain level 39 Day 9 pain level 30 Day 10 pain level 9 Day 11 pain level 10 Day 12 pain level 21 (dosed 1.5g) (level 1.5) Day 13 pain level 39 Day 14 pain level 41 Day 15 pain level 0 Day 16 pain level 65 (4:00 pm still 8 hours to go) As you can see day 2 and day 3 after dosing are normally pretty good (except for this last dose) and then the headaches seem too start ramping up on day 4 plus. Head has been clear up till today, after the hit last night which has been the first one to wake me since my first dose (was having 2 at night before starting treatment) my head today has reverted back to before first dose. Today have headache every 4 hours and shadowed in between headaches so no pain free time which also has been out of norm since first dose. After first dose even though I would get 2 or 3 milder headaches they were much shorter and pain level was at 0 in between headaches which made life grand. Still pissed over the triptan last night. Haven’t used one since 5 days before first dose. Going 5 days detoxing in prep for treatment and being able to avoid the tripitans should give you an ideal of how painful headache was last night. Had already put away o2 since I have been sleeping through night and in the heat of battle couldn’t find it and didn’t care to find it. Call it a brain fart, tonight will the o2 will be sitting by the bed. Thanks again pink and everyone else, any advice or suggestions at this point are and will be greatly appreciated. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Jan 5th, 2004, 11:33pm Hootch, Sorry to hear that last dose didn't clear things up. It looks like you were doing pretty good just before your last dose. Did you get to 21 before or after you dosed on day 12? Did the dose give you relief for the rest of that day and or night? Stick with the O2 and see if things don't calm down, easy for me to say. I know it's frustrating when you're doing good and then get pounded. I'm not sure if just using the triptans once will counteract your next dose much. I know BT used imitrex once or twice and still felt the effects and had good results. Definitely better to avoid if possible. Hope you're doing better((((((((((((VIBES)))))))))))))) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 6th, 2004, 1:39am Hi Hootch, Looking at your chart, I don't know if I would have dosed that third time but....I know how it is to want to just get it over with already. I think you're going to be ok...lets see how that next few days go. Easy from this side but....keep us informed and write any time you want. I know that 65pts seems bad after those "0s" or "10's" but even that is only 25% of where you were at one time. And that has been your worst day in over two weeks. Not trying to minimize the pain...just looking at the big picture. When you look at the progress overall, it's a bit easier to remember you're heading in the right direction and the end is near. Sometimes when you're climbing a mountain, the trail leads sideways for a short distance....it may not be the fastest way up but it does take you there. You won't need to book an appointment at the local massage parlor to have a "happy ending" to this story. PF (did I mention.......stay positive!!??!! ;) |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Jan 6th, 2004, 3:27am Hootch, oh man, how we know how you feel .... I hope Pink´s advice will encourage you, please try not to get too pissed (that doesn´t help). Hang in there man and stay confident, sending good VIBES your way. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 6th, 2004, 4:32pm Agreed pink, my life is a thousand times better since starting the treatment. In no way am I discouraged by the results of the shrooms. In fact it will be hard for me to ever revert back to conventional treatments. The discouraging part is getting over that final hump. Compared to the hell I was in life is wonderful. I knew going into this that once a cycle was firmly established the cycle would be harder to break. I was truly expecting an experience more along the line of Jos. Mine has been a walk in the park compared to what Hannah and Jos and many others have gone through. I did dose 1g again last night, 4 days since 3rd dose. Slept like a baby except for my wife kicking me to stop snoring. Have not had any shadowing or headaches all day. Lisa, my wife, thinks I should dose on a regular basis, every 4 days, until the cycle is completely broken. Question would be is there any harm dosing on a regular basis or would I be better off waiting to see what happens over a longer period? Thanks again for all of your support, Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Jan 6th, 2004, 7:15pm Hootch - OK lets try this... If you go the 4 days without getting hit or shadowing then DO NOT DOSE AGAIN, hold off and see if they come back. If you do not get hit on day 4, the hang off and dose the next time you feel a definate twinge. Hows that sound? Your stats are looking good. Any chance of adding them to your graph? Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Jan 6th, 2004, 11:53pm I agree with Flash. Keep in mind that what you want to do is get your doses farther and farther apart until you don't need to anymore. However, there have been quite a few here that have done higher doses and more frequent than what we suggested, with good results. You have dosed several times now and you know how it affects you. Listen to your self. If you feel you need to dose every four days for now than that may be what you need. It's definitely different for everyone. Keep the Faith; you're on the right path! PF Vibes |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 7th, 2004, 4:50pm Pain Free for almost 48 hours other than one shadow about 11:00 am today, a little tightness in temple area. Is dose #4 the one that puts me over the hump? As far as the question of dosing every four days there is a fear that if I’m not taking something then the headaches will return. It is the same as when I was on the prednisone. three times during the 5 months previous. I was on a 100mg/day pred taper and the first 3 or 4 days at max dose life was great almost to the point that I thought the headaches where going away then they would start to ramp up again and then I would have to start tapering the prednisone and I knew I was screwed. How many times have we read posts that say “well this worked for awhile but then stoped. It almost seems like the headaches found a way around this or that med.” Well what happens if the beast finds a way around the shrooms. That is why I want to get over the hump as quickly as possible. Also looking for some consistency in the treatment. I realize that we are basically the human trial for right now. And clusterbusters is doing a wonderful job compiling this information. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if you could recommend, to someone who is thinking about the treatment, something like this; For the first two weeks we recommend that you dose at 1.5g every four days, then drop down to 1g every 7 days for two weeks, then 1g every 14 days for the next month, after your first initial and subsequent doses report back and we will adjust accordingly. It would be like taking antibiotics, who has ever finished the whole bottle. Most people quit as soon as they start feeling better, some take them just a little bet longer to be safe, and only the anal ones finish the whole bottle. I’m confident that someday the time will come when this treatment is refined enough that it will be no different than picking up a prescription and following the instructions. Wouldn’t it be nice if clusterbusters could recruit enough people to try a regimented routine and refine it so it would be more consistent for a wide range of people. Take 5 people and have them dose at x amount every x days, take 5 more and have them dose at y amount every y days. It would almost be their own clinical trial. I’m so convinced that this treatment can end the suffering for thousands of people that I for one would be willing to go on the cross and let my next cycle start just to be able to gather more data. Maybe clusterbusters could organize an online clinical trial and ask for volunteers. Sorry for the rant but hey I’m pumped. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 7th, 2004, 5:37pm blue arrows indicate day I dosed, red bars show daily pain level http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fe84c12_4a39/bc/2004-01-07/__sr_/bar2jpg.jpg?phn4U__A7ofKiqvw Headaches before first dose http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fe84c12_4a39/bc/2004-01-07/__sr_/prior.jpg?phn4U__A6RxzcnF_ Headaches 12/25 - 12/27 http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fe84c12_4a39/bc/2004-01-07/__sr_/12.25-12.27.jpg?phn4U__ALNZ_5UsQ Headaches 1/03 - 1/05 http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fe84c12_4a39/bc/2004-01-07/__sr_/1.03-1.05.jpg?phn4U__AnJDlBTtL Headaches 1/06-1/08 http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3fe84c12_4a39/bc/2004-01-07/__sr_/1.06-1.08.jpg?phn4U__AUORZkmQC :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) ;) :D ;;D [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Roxy on Jan 7th, 2004, 8:04pm hootch, Sending some big vibes to you....hope you kick its ass!! Tracey |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by AlienSpaceBabe on Jan 13th, 2004, 12:35am Howdy.... Need an expert opinion here.... After dosing 6 or 7 times in 2002, the CH has been weird. Usual cycle is 2 1/2 years on with 6 to 9 months off. Cycle hit (if i remember right) in early summer 2001. Dosing caused the h/a to end for quite a while, then got short (3 month or so) periods of moderate to heavy CH activity, ramping up at the beginning and down at the ending of the 3 months, with perhaps 2 to 3 weeks of 7's and 8's up to five times a day. My CH has also become completely back-asswards since dosing. Rarely get hit at night now, though it was usually only once or twice a night with occasional nights off. Discovered this past weekend that drinking alcohol is not a trigger anymore like it used to be.... rather, got hit twice before drinking then decided to go for it, and didn't get hit all night... same thing the next day - got hit once, drank, didn't get hit again..... Would it be beneficial to dose some time soon? (have to start farming, so it'll be a while) Could I actually cause it to 'ramp up' again? What meds CAN I stay on before dosing? I'll be checking the clusterbusters site - just want to make sure I don't miss something important! Thanks, Lizzie |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by hootchdom on Jan 13th, 2004, 5:54pm Saw new neurologist today at KU med, third neurologist in six months. First I must say it was a relief finally seeing a doctor who actually seemed to be knowledgeable and up to date on the latest research in the treatment of Cluster Headaches. She also genuinely seemed to take an interest in my health and well being. Spent two hours with her going over history, current cycle, and medications past and present. She also took great interest in the data I was able to provide with the graphs and the difference in daily pain corresponding to the medication I was on at that time. After reviewing the following graph http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4df35b3127cce862d460d13c60000001610 her first question was why the relief after December 20th? When I informed her that it was due to the psilocybin she asked if it was obtained through the mushroom treatment found on the internet, she also inquired as to why I decided to try it. To answer her first question, yes it was found on the internet through CLUSTERHEADACHES.COM and was the treatment described at CLUSTERBUSTERS, she answered the second question herself by acknowledging that most of the conventional medications hadn’t had any profound effect on the headaches. After further discussion she implied that my headaches have most likely turned chronic. We discussed options available to me including in patient steroid iv, in patient dhe treatment, other conventional meds that I have not tried, gamma knife surgery, which she strongly discouraged and referred to as a hatchet job, and the implant stimulator, which she spoke highly of. She goes on to write me prescriptions for depakote and prednisone and recommends melatonin at night. She hands them to me and says if I were you I would keep those in your pocket. She advises me to continue to do what I’ve been doing, without specifically mentioning the mushroom treatment. She told me if the course of my condition should change she would be more than happy to work with me using conventional meds but wouldn’t recommend it at this time. She provided me with her email, told me stay in contact, update her to my condition any time I felt like it and made a follow up visit for three months, telling me that if I wanted to see her sooner to just call. My overall impression of the appointment was that here is a Doctor that realizes not every patient responds to treatment using conventional meds and by her own admission not every patients responds the same to each drug which makes treating cluster headaches a trail and error process. She realizes that there are other options in chronic cases but they are more severe procedures which should be looked at only as a last resort. That I have found something that appears to be working at this time and I should continue it even though it is outside of her reach. It was also my impression that she was quite more knowledgeable about the affect of psilocybin on cluster headaches then she was able or wanted to discuss. It is comforting to know that I now have a secondary resource in the treatment of my cluster headaches as the shroom treatment has become my primary source of treatment. Hootchdom |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 13th, 2004, 6:29pm Ahhh yes...... the shroom heard round the world (or at least across the pond). Seems to me the word has spread fast and continues to gain acceptance as a tangable alternative if not replacement for the prescripts that work some of the time for few. If my data is correct, prescriptions are about 10 to 15 percent effective while the alternative has about a 10 to 15 percent failure rate. I am talking about breaking the cycle, not just crutching the damn things. Great news Hootch. THe success stories just keep coming in and that makes it all worth while. We have gone from baby steps to giant leaps. Makes me wonder how things will look by this time next year? Jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Jan 13th, 2004, 11:23pm Hey Hootch, I'm glad you went to your appointment. It sounds like you found a good Neuro. It's good to know there are Doctors out there that stay on top of things like it seems she has. Definitely keep her informed on your progress. How are you doing? I haven't been able to see your graphs the last couple of posts. I just see a little red X. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by HannahFroukje on Jan 18th, 2004, 2:01pm Hi I didn't see the first few graphs (indeed, got the x-es), but I could see the last one. It's very significant isn't it?!?! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Jan 19th, 2004, 4:55am on 01/13/04 at 18:29:01, jminmilwaukee wrote:
Whoa there! Yes they've made it across the pond. They first made it across in 1998, only in THE OTHER DIRECTION when I discovered this message board. You see: Flash <--- located in Aberdeen, SCOTLAND The same race of dudes that invented the TV, phone, penicillin, golf, soccer, (caber) tossing, whisky, prostitution, the headbutt, and the wheel. In roughly that order. :)) Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Jan 19th, 2004, 9:17am That's a pretty impressive Resume you got there Flash! [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 19th, 2004, 9:46am on 01/19/04 at 04:55:07, Flash wrote:
Thanks but we could have done without the soccer! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Jan 19th, 2004, 10:10am Well the game was originally called 'fitba' which translates at fit ---> foot and ba ---> ball therefore football. This name derived from the fact that it's mainly played with the feet. Then some yank came along with a game that isn't played with the feet, but instead the hands and called that football. Next the yanks invented a World Series that the rest of the world were not invited into, and a Superbowl although the game has nothing to do with bowling. The end result was that the rest of the world (who all played the original Scottish version) had the name of their game changed to soccer by the yanks although it is played wearing football boots not socks. The strangest thing was that the welsh had already invented a game played with the hands and an oval shaped ball. This was called rugby, unfortunately the yanks were too scared to adopt this game as the participants were hard enough to play it without resorting to body armour, despite the fact that they were Welsh (backward) and Rugby Players (homosexual, liked chasing sweaty men round a field, got into baths naked together etc). Now some people claim that American football is somehow more dangerous than rugby. This is a moot point since the most dangerous game ever invented is also Scottish, and it's name is Shinty. Shinty is like Ice Hocky but without the body armour and the ball is usually the opponents head. Hope this clears things up. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 19th, 2004, 10:12am Sorry bout that Flash, I am familiar with the history and did not mean to did the Scotts ;;D. Boomerrang would have been more appropriate I think. Pretty sure the native Austailians came up with that one though. BTW - Have I thanked you lateley flash? (Seriously) Thanks! jmin |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by jminmilwaukee on Jan 19th, 2004, 10:13am I meant to say dis ...not did. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by uga11 on Feb 18th, 2004, 1:34pm hey, i just started my cycle on eposidic migrains.. read about the magic shroom.. was thinking of trying it.. only problem is i live in GA and we can't get spores. well was wondering if anyone else have some idea where i can get some in GA.. if him me up.. im down to get rid of the worst thing im my life.. i was 15 when first started now 27.. so willing to try anything to get out of the eposidic period.. and stay of it too.. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 21st, 2004, 8:16pm Hi, I've been reading about the shroom treatment in this thread and elsewhere. After 20+ years of CH w/ only imitrex as successful and costly med this looked quite promising. I suddenly realised that the time I became a CH regular (if not chronic) was in the same period I last used shrooms for recreational purposes. Judging from all the posts I'd say that can't be a coincedence. Anyway, yesterday I went downton to get me a portion of shrooms in one of our so called smartshops. Tonight I made some tea using Pink's recipe and drank it an hour ago. As I write this I can feel the effects already kick in. I hope it's the start of long PF period. I'll keep you posted |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 21st, 2004, 8:55pm Hi Pad, I hope it goes good for you tonight. I'm sure you will be happy with the results. What kind of shrooms did you purchase at the smartshop? Wish we had those shops here. Take care and keep us updated on your progress! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 21st, 2004, 9:13pm Hi Flounder, So far so good. I guess I'm on level 2 now. Not too bad. The shrooms I got are psilocybe cubensis from Mexico. They come in portions of 35 (fresh) gram. I took half of that. You're right about the shops, quite handy. However, these shops only started about 10 years ago. Before that shrooms were not easy to find at all. Hi Pad, I hope it goes good for you tonight. I'm sure you will be happy with the results. What kind of shrooms did you purchase at the smartshop? Wish we had those shops here. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 21st, 2004, 9:29pm Thanks for the info Pad, Shrooms have worked amazingly well for me. The success rate for this treatment is very high so I'm sure things will go good for you. Are you chronic or episodic? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 21st, 2004, 9:40pm Hi Flounder, I'm chronic. The beast never leaves for more than 3 weeks. At the worst times I get attacks every 2 hours for days on end. In good times I may get only 1 attack in 3 days. I'm in a good period now so I hope I can get thru the period till the next dose w/o imitrex. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 21st, 2004, 10:07pm Pad, When was the last time you used trex? It sounds like you have done your research on this treatment but I was curious if you detoxed from meds before the shrooms. Were you taking any preventative meds? What about O2? Even if oxygen hasn't worked for you in the past many have reported that after the shrooms it works much better. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 21st, 2004, 10:19pm Flounder, My last imitrex dose was on Thursday. I have tried dozens of preventatives both here and while I lived in the US. O2 did help a little but only to make the attacks last 1 in stead of 2 hours. It didn't really diminish the intensity of the attacks. I never really felt great about taking imitrex so often. I'd prefer a few shrooms ever half year or so. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by 1MajorPain on Feb 22nd, 2004, 12:21pm Pad...best of luck to you on becoming pain free, I have also just recently taken my first dose of mushrooms with great sussess...I wish you the same. Hopefully your de-tox time was long enough to work for you! Major |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 22nd, 2004, 1:52pm Thanks Major, I hope the 3 days of detox is sufficient too. It's been almost 24 hours since I took the shrooms and so I far haven't had a CH. One or two minor shadows but hardly a problem. Then again I only had a couple of hours sleep. I hope I don't wake up tonight with a full blown attack as so often happens to me. That must be the hardest part, to have an instant pain-killer at hand and fight the urge to take it. Let's just wait and see what kind of whimp I am. later, Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 22nd, 2004, 8:24pm Glad to hear you're doing well today Pad! It looks like the triptans didn't interfere. From what it sounded like you reached a good level 2+. You may have some shadows and even some small hits, don't be alarmed that is normal with this treatment. I would suggest getting some O2 if you can. Take care and get some sleep! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 23rd, 2004, 12:57am Thanks Flounder. Last night I slept like a log. No CH nor shadows. I feel great, purified even. Re the detox of triptan. From your post I take it that imitrex blocks the effect of shrooms completely. I misunderstood that it would only disturb the working of psilocybin on CH. The level I reached on saturday was indeed high enough to notice so I guess the combination of a short detox with half a recreational dose did it for me. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 23rd, 2004, 8:57pm on 02/23/04 at 00:57:40, pad wrote:
Yes, triptans can block the effects of the shrooms. It may not completely block them but there have been people here who have taken very large doses and not reached a level 2. They also interfere with the beneficial effects on CH's. That's why it's important to not take any after dosing as well. Great to hear you are doing so well. Getting some undisturbed sleep is always a good thing! I hope things continue to improve for you. Take Care and keep us posted on your progress. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 24th, 2004, 6:40am Good, that´s what I concluded too. All´s fine. I haven´t had any CH nor shadows for over 48 hours which hasn´t happened for a very long time. Amazing. I´m pretty confident I can do the next dose coming weekend w/o taking Imitrex. I think 2 doses will suffice, do you agree? Thanks again to all members on this board. You are the real CH experts! Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 24th, 2004, 2:27pm on 02/24/04 at 06:40:27, pad wrote:
Ya never know but ONE dose might suffice. Days 4 and 5 are usually the ones that answer the question about the next dose. Even if you get a couple hits or shadows in the next day or two, if things are continuing to improve or you don't have any attacks....don't dose again. Stay away from any triggers, like a celebration that includes a keg, until you're out of the woods. ;;D happy to hear of your success to this point! Pfloyd |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 24th, 2004, 5:32pm OK, I'll see how it goes and decide to dose or not on Saturday. Today I got a light shadow that I could get rid of with just a few glasses of water. Still no attacks. The kegs will have to wait although here in Holland they only contain harmless, light beer like Heineken. Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 26th, 2004, 11:11pm Hey Pad, Hows it going?? I Hope things are still going well for you!! |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 27th, 2004, 2:21am Hey Flounder, things couldn't be better. Still completely PF since my first dose on Saturday. To ensure the effect over a longer period I decided to have another dose tomorrow night. BTW, is there any evidence of increased tolerance for shrooms i.e. should I expect to need higher doses each time or is it fair to say that roughly the same dose can be used to reach level 2? Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flounder on Feb 27th, 2004, 2:48am That's Awesome Pad!!!!! I'm happy for you.;;D You may want to wait and see how things go before dosing again but go with your gut instinct if you feel another dose is in order. Personally I wouldn't stir things up if I were totally PF. As far as the tolerance thing goes, you won't need to take a higher dose. It takes 3-5 days between doses for any tolerance problems to wear off. You will get the same effects as long as it has been 5 days or more. It will have been 6 days since your last dose so you should have a fresh head. I wish you continued success. Wow, for someone who is chronic, you are doing great with just one dose. Take Care |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 27th, 2004, 3:35am Hey Flounder, Awesome is the word alright. I now sleep much deeper than since a long time. This makes me feel very energized. Ever since I started taking Immitrex (with increasing frequency) I had this foul taste in my mouth and a clogged head. This is no longer the case. It does make me wonder why some clusterheads will get immediate relief from taking one dose and others must undergo heavy attacks and require several extra doses. I guess all CH´s are different. Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Flash on Feb 27th, 2004, 5:49am Do not dose again if you are currently PF - that is only likely to set the dice rolling again. Dose again in 3 months with a low dose if you remain PF, the repeat dosing quarterly. After the first year you can try decreasing frequency to 6 monthly, then annually. Flash |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by pad on Feb 27th, 2004, 7:16am OK guys. I will take the next dose 3 months from now unless the attacks reappear before that time. Wouldn´t want to spoil the success I´ve had so far. thanks, Pad |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 27th, 2004, 9:43am Hey Pad... Congrats!! Please remember to fill out the database info and surveys!! PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Giovanni on Feb 28th, 2004, 8:22am Okay, time for me to jump in. After the last cycle ending after 4.5 months I decided that I would take charge here and try ANYTHING that would help rid me of these monsters. Literally hundreds of imitrex injections over the years, dopymax, everything for all practical purposes had failed (I did have some luck with verapamil and melatonin). I started planning my course of action with the shroom treatment after much study on the subject from: www.clusterbusters.com and the various links provided at that web site. My usual cycle begins in early March with heavy shadowing and break through CHs in late February. The headaches form their pattern in March and increase in intensity and frequency up to 5-8 headaches a day during the apex of the cycle. Having no experience with shrooms, I did my first dose on December 23rd of 1.5 EU, 2.0 on January 11, and 1.5 on Februay 15th. On Saturday 21st I had a kip 3 and the next day the same thing. On Sunday the 22nd I did a very small .5 dose of tea. My head has been almost totally clear since my last dose. Last year with no treatment the shadows and headaches had continued in frequency. If I can avoid/limit this cycle, it would be a miracle in my eyes. I will keep this board posted on my progress, and hopefully others can benefit from my experiences. I feel that this therapy is working so far and I'm so much more ahead of where I was last year. Many thanks to BobW and the clusterbuster group. John [smiley=bow.gif] |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by 1MajorPain on Feb 28th, 2004, 9:22am Here's to wishing you the best Giovanni! I too took the same type approach and glad now I had an open mind to this type of treatment. Major, still PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by miapet on Feb 29th, 2004, 10:21am Well, I'm back with more questions .. .is there a favorite mushroom (there are lots of choices!) and do they all take the same amount of time to grow? (4 weeks is going to seem like an eternity). mia |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 29th, 2004, 1:22pm They all take too long, but it's akin to the difference between a tv dinner and Thanksgiving Dinner...! ;) Most people prefer the Equadors for speed, quantity and ease. Be sure to read the FAQ link. PF |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by bamjd on Feb 29th, 2004, 3:13pm :-/I just can't believe there are some cures for cancer and no cure for these damn things. |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Giovanni on Feb 29th, 2004, 4:33pm Feeling great. Worked around the house today and rode my antique (almost) motorcycle today. Head feels wonderful. John ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Giovanni on Mar 3rd, 2004, 8:47am My report: ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by EL on Mar 3rd, 2004, 9:48am This is a question I have. When trying this treatment you make sure to stay off triptans but should that also include prev. like verapamil..Would that make any difference? |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by Giovanni on Mar 3rd, 2004, 10:09am I'm still on verapamil and it does not seem to make a difference in combination with the treatment. The experts might have other ideas about this subject. John Still PF, no shadows, nada, zip ;;D |
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Title: Re: Updates on Psilocybin Research??? Post by EL on Mar 3rd, 2004, 11:29am Great news John. [smiley=me&mb.gif] hope it says that way.. Thanx for the info. |
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