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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2004 >> Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
        
(Message started by: floridian on Nov 12^th, 2003, 10:59am)

Title: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 12^th, 2003, 10:59am

Fat metabolism in CH is altered. Lipolysis (break down of fats) is low, both in cycle and in remission. The abnormally low metabolism is most pronounced from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. (most common time of heachache onset for episodics?). The altered fat metabolism points to a central autonomic nervous system dysregulation in the hypothalamus.

Quote:

Neurology. 2003 Nov 11;61(9):1250-1254.

Diminished nocturnal lipolysis in cluster headache: A sign of central sympathetic dysregulation?

Meyer EL, Waldenlind E, Marcus C. Department of Neurology (Drs. Meyer and Waldenlind) and Department of Clinical Science Pediatric Endocrine Research Laboratory (Dr. Marcus), Karolinska Institute, Huddinge University Hospital, Stockholm, Sweden.

BACKGROUND: It is unclear whether the autonomic symptoms during cluster headache (CH) attacks are of central or peripheral origin. A metabolic change such as altered lipolysis would reflect a central autonomic dysfunction. OBJECTIVE: To study nocturnal lipolysis in CH patients and healthy control subjects. METHODS: Microdialysis technique was used to measure glycerol levels, the end-product of lipolysis, in subcutaneous adipose tissue. Ten CH patients participated, of whom six were studied in remission as well as during symptomatic periods but between headache attacks. Fifteen healthy control subjects were studied. Mean glycerol, glucose, and lactate concentrations were calculated for three 2-hour intervals between 2400 and 0600 hours. RESULTS: Compared with healthy control subjects, symptomatic CH patients had lower glycerol levels during all three intervals (69, 61, and 73% of control levels; p < 0.05). CH patients in remission showed lower glycerol levels from 0200 to 0600 hours (68 and 63% of control levels; p < 0.05). There were no significant differences between the CH groups. Compared with healthy control subjects, patients in remission also showed a significantly different nocturnal temporal pattern, demonstrating declining glycerol levels during the first part of the night. CONCLUSIONS: Altered lipolysis was found in patients with CH, both in symptomatic periods and in remission. The altered lipolysis may be due to a reduced nocturnal sympathetic activity and consequently an indication of central sympathetic dysregulation and hypothalamic dysfunction.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by vig on Nov 12^th, 2003, 11:05am

Were the CH people in the test drug free?

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by notseinfeld on Nov 12^th, 2003, 11:06am

That's interesting stuff. Now, what are they going to do about it???

Thanks for posting Floridian.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 12^th, 2003, 11:16am

Quote:

Were the CH people in the test drug free?

Good question. I would assume that they controlled that in some way - either disqualifying people on drugs known to affect fat metabolism, and/or grouping people according to what they are taking and looking for differences between the groups. But I don't know, and don't have access to that journal.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by vig on Nov 12^th, 2003, 11:45am

You'll notice a large number of large folks here and I blame the prednisone, verapamil, etc.

If the experiment wasn't controlled in this regard then it's a waste of effort, isn't it?

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by NRA1871 on Nov 12^th, 2003, 5:49pm

The patients were drug free. It was an interesting paper, a fresh approach to the problem (my employer has full access to that website). Once again pointing to a defect in the hypothalamus. It seems to me that there are a lot more papers on CH's lately. I hope this leads somewhere good in a few years.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Prense on Nov 12^th, 2003, 6:44pm

I would be curious to know what the mix was if any between episodic and chronic.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 12^th, 2003, 7:16pm

This is very interesting. I have a few questions. I wonder....

Do the low glycerol levels translate to abnormal blood lipid or cholesterol readings? In the past I have had some very unusual cholesterol results... like being too low (i.e. below the reference range). :-[ :-[ :-[

How do these low glycerol levels effect the metabolism of fat soluble vitamins? I understand that vitamin A is crucial in maintaining the structural integrity of the cells in blood vessels and capillaries.

--- Steve

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 13^th, 2003, 10:26am

This raises the possibility of dietary changes to prevent/reduce headaches. Would a meal at 10 pm before going to bed make a difference? Is there a particular type of oil (or some other nutrient like glycerine, or chromium) that can boost glycerol even when the hypothalamus isn't sending the signal to relase glycerol? Don't know, but worth considering.

This research might also explain my elevated triglycerides - if the triglycerides aren't being broken down to fatty acids and glycerol, the triglycerides might become elevated. Don't know if its just me, or if elevated triglycerides are common in CH.

Having fat in the diet is essential for absorbing vitamin A and the other fat soluble vitamins - part of the objection to Olestra (the fat free fat for junk foods) was that it passes right through the gut, and might carry vitamin A and reduce its absorption. Not sure about fats and the metabolism of vitamin A once its inside the body. Cholesterol is produced in the liver, but why so low in your case? Is it from sluggish liver, or from the liver not getting nutrients or signals from other parts of the body??

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by NRA1871 on Nov 13^th, 2003, 4:43pm

prense:
There were 10 cluster sufferers, 1 chronic and 9 episodic.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Unsolved on Nov 14^th, 2003, 2:56am

Does this mean I'm gonna get fat ?

Unsolved

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by jmorgan52 on Nov 14^th, 2003, 4:51am

I am not sure if my comment has anything wahtsoever to do with the research in this post, but I truly believe that diet is a major contributing factor in controlling CH.

I have been "almost" totally HA free for about 20 months now since changing from a diet rich in wheat, cereal, dairy, red meat and starch to one rich in fruit, veg, fish, chicken and olive oil. I still eat some red meat and dairy, but much less than before. I very rarely eat butter, bread, pastry or wheat products.

Almost everything else like booze, chocolate, etc I still indulge in.

Every 3 months I do a "detox diet" for a week or 2, especially if I start to get any mild HA's. This consists of fruit and veg and plain water only for the first 3 or 4 days, then allow a little fish/chicken for the rest of the "diet period".

It was not easy at first, but the results have changed my life. I used to get regular HAs very often and occasional migraines and 2-3 month CH episodes every year. Life is so much better now. And I weigh 12 kgs less.

John

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 14^th, 2003, 10:54am

I think diet can affect CH. Definitely need more research on this to determine how and why. In the absence of scientific proof on CH/diet, I wouldn't mind losing a few pounds and having more energy. Even if someone proved that no diet changes whatsoever could possibly change the frequency and severity of headaches (which is a tall order to prove), it still makes sense to improve health for better dealing with the trials and tribulations of CH. Glad you are pretty much pain free!

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by CindyC on Nov 14^th, 2003, 11:23am

Hi All...
My husband has CHs. I am kinda new to all this but am I to understand that metabolism slowing down can effect CHs?
He has suffered daily for the last 5 weeks...and the only thing that has changed is that he just recently lost 35 pounds in about 3 months on weight watchers. This is not to say it was a healthy diet...(he doesn't like fruits and vegetables). Mainly cut out carbos, and switched to fat free everything we could find?
Does anyone think this could of brought on this bad cycle?
CindyC

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 14^th, 2003, 8:35pm

Possibly. I think the article is pointing to something more specific - low energy levels (specifically glycerol) in a circadian cycle. As to losing weight making clusters worse - again, possibly, but we don't know enough about diet and CH. Plus, CH comes and goes in mysterious patterns. Lots of people try things that seem to help, but they don't help next time around. Either the beast adapts, or were just jumping to conclusions when a change in headaches corresponded to something we did. I wouldn't tell your husband to gain weight to keep the beast at bay, because their is no evidence that it would. But it could be that major weight loss changes the metabolism/endocrine/neurologic system enough to give the disease an in. Wish I could say for certain.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by jmorgan52 on Nov 15^th, 2003, 2:45am

The "healthy diet" we need to deat is not the same for everyone. For soem it's mainly protein, for some mainly veg, for some mainly fat (eskimo's?)

The "diet" I changed to was not intended to make me lose weight, in fact I probably eat a lot more food than I used too. I could never really understand why I was a bit overweight on the amounts I ate.

I was also very tired and low on energy most of the time. I felt crap and had constant headaches, and I had my yearly CH cycle for over 30 years. I am 52 now.

Since changing my eating habits I feel alive! Lots more energy. I am up for anything instead of just lazing around after a day at work. My Imigran injections used to go everywhere with me as I travel a lot. I have even started to leave them behind. Very big risk for me!

As for Cindy's husband. Cutting out starch and going FAT free sounds like the Atkin's diet? There are lots of people saying it is not too good for you. You need fat in the diet. Just not too much animal fat.

I hated fruit and veg once but now love them. Much better than these HA's - my 2c worth

John

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Nov 15^th, 2003, 9:58am

small note: Atkins is not fat free - it is almost carbohydrate free, with as much fat and protein as desired.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Tim_Brown on Nov 21^st, 2003, 8:11pm

I have to agree with jmorgan52. I went on low fat diet 4 years ago and I didn't have a CH cycle for 2 years, I then fell off the wagon hard and went back to my comfort foods about 2 years ago and sure enough the beast returned. I'm cycling currently and am back on the diet. Hope it works

timb :)

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Paigelle on Nov 21^st, 2003, 8:26pm

I can't go on a low fat diet! I only weigh 117 lbs and I am 5'11. If I go low fat I will waste away to nothing. I can't gain weight to save my life! I have a metabolism that goes nonstop.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by HannahFroukje on Nov 23^rd, 2003, 3:36pm

on 11/14/03 at 20:35:57, floridian wrote:

Lots of people try things that seem to help, but they don't help next time around. Either the beast adapts, or were just jumping to conclusions when a change in headaches corresponded to something we did.

Yup, that's my experience too. Stuff that works on the balance seems to be working only temporarily. If it's about fat, carbonhydrates, minerals, doesn't seem to matter really much, the body has lost it's balance or is looking at the wrong balance. Like the body doesn't know WHAT the right balance is. Should have something to do with the hypothalamus/hypofyses system, but in which way I'm not sure. Where does the first wrong signal come from? And WHY only on one side usually?

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by CJohnson on Dec 31^st, 2003, 4:49pm

This study suggests reduced noctournal lipolysis (burning of fat) in clusterheads. In lipolysis triglycerides are broken down to fatty acids and glycerol. Thus, if lipolysis is reduced, triglycerides could be elevated, since they are being broken down at a slower rate.

Growth hormone, whose production is controlled by the hypothalamus, stimulates lipolysis. Reduced growth hormone production would mean reduced lipolysis. This is interesting because when triptans are administered to people, there should be an increase in growth hormone output. In clusterheads the triptan induced output of growth hormone is reduced. Clusterheads also show reduced stimulation of adenylyl cyclase because of abnormal membrane phosphatidylcholine function. Growth hormone activates adenylyl cyclase.

PFDANs
-Curtis

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Dec 31^st, 2003, 6:48pm

Interesting linkages, Curtis.

Ginseng increases hgh, but also stimulates nitric oxide (with potentially painful results). I think ginseng is a trigger for me, and a few others have agreed. Maybe taking ginseng out of cycle would help prevent one.

Quote:

Stimulation of growth hormone gene expression in the pituitary and brain by Panax ginseng C. A. MEYER.

Yoshizato H, Fujikawa T, Shibata M, Tanaka M, Nakashima K. Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, Mie University, Tsu, Japan.

Here's another article on stimulating growth hormone. Don't know if it would work for us... would it be as inefectual as a triptan stimulus? Also, the arginine might feed into the nitric oxide pathway, which could increase dilation and pain.

Quote:

Growth Horm IGF Res. 2002 Feb;12(1):34-40. Kyolic and Pycnogenol increase human growth hormone secretion in genetically-engineered keratinocytes.

Buz'Zard AR, Peng Q, Lau BH. Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics, School of Medicine, Loma Linda University, Loma Linda, CA 92350, USA.

The amount of human growth hormone (HGH) decreases significantly after the age of 30. This decrease has been implicated as one of the major causes in the signs of aging, such as thinning of the skin and bones, a decrease in lean muscle mass and an increase in adipose tissue. Supplementing the body's dwindling supply with recombinant human growth hormone (rHGH) has been shown to reverse the signs and symptoms of aging. However, drawbacks in rHGH replacement therapy include prohibitively high cost, the need for repeated injection and side effects such as carpel tunnel syndrome, gynecomastia and insulin resistance. The purpose of this study was to establish an in vitro model using genetically-engineered keratinocytes to screen natural compounds for the ability to stimulate HGH secretion. We now report that a combination of equal amounts of L-arginine and L-lysine, aged garlic extract (Kyolic), S-allyl cysteine and Pycnogenol significantly increased secretion of HGH in this in vitro model. The data indicate that this in vitro model may be used to screen for other secretagogues.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Dec 31^st, 2003, 7:07pm

St. Johns Wort also stimulates hgh, although through serotonin and dopamine pathways - might be blocked in CH patients.

Quote:

Pharmacopsychiatry. 2001 Jul;34 Suppl 1:S29-37.

Researching the antidepressant actions of Hypericum perforatum (St. John's wort) in animals and man.

Franklin M, Cowen PJ. University of Oxford Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, UK.

We have studied the effect of acute and sub-chronic treatments of a formulation of a methanolic extract of hypericum perforatum (HP, also known as St John's wort) on plasma hormones and brain neurotransmitters in healthy human volunteers and rats. Also studied were the effects of equivalent acute doses of two constituents of HP (with respect to LI 160 extract), hypericin and hyperforin in rats. In acute treatment studies in normal volunteers subjects received 9 tablets of the finished product Jarsin 300 and placebo in the pilot study (unblinded) and in the main study (a double blind, balanced order, cross-over design). Results in normal volunteer studies show that HP caused significant increases of salivary cortisol and plasma growth hormone (GH) whereas it decreased plasma prolactin versus placebo. Plasma hormone levels were associated with a rise in plasma hyperforin but not with hypericin, however no significant correlation was found. In the animal studies, acute treatment with LI 160, hyperforin and hypericin all caused significant increases in plasma corticosterone. This was associated with significant increases in brain cortical tissue 5-HT content. The corticosterone responses were attenuated by the 5-HT2 receptor antagonist, ketanserin but not by the 5-HT1A antagonist, WAY-100635. This suggests that the corticosterone responses may be mediated via a 5-HT2 mechanism of action. When sub-chronic and acute treatment using two different doses of LI 160 were compared, plasma corticosterone level were significantly decreased. Thus suggesting a down-regulation or desensitisation of post-synaptic 5-HT2 receptors. Plasma prolactin was significantly reduced by acute treatment with LI 160 and hyperforin treatment but not by hypericin. This was associated with a concomitant rise in brain cortical tissue DA. Both LI 160 and hyperforin treatments decreased the plasma prolactin responses to the DA antagonist, haloperidol, suggesting that this may be associated with a DA-mediated mechanisn of action. When acute and sub-chronic treatments were compared, plasma prolactin responses were increased in the sub-chronically treated animals. The studies when taken together suggest that the LI 160 extract may effect plasma hormonal changes via both 5-HT and DA-mediated mechanisms but do not involve noradrenaline (NA). The data also suggests that hyperforin may be more important than hypericin for effecting these changes following acute treatment. Further studies investigating both acute and sub-chronic effects of these compounds are necessary.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Dec 31^st, 2003, 8:11pm

a few other hgh boosters:

astragalus
eucommiae
gingko
kidney warming / restoring Chinese medicines
Yang restoring Chinese medicines

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by floridian on Dec 31^st, 2003, 8:38pm

Here's a link between the inflammitory cytokines like TNF and IL-1 and decreased effectiveness of hgh - it isn't so much that hgh is reduced, but fewer receptors are generated, so the same amount of gh has less effect. This would argue for anti-inflammitory therapies like turmeric, green tea, fish oil, pycnogenol, etc. As some of these phytochemicals also sponge up nitric oxide and have other relevant activity (blocking NMDA/aspartate pain transmission, blocking substance P), they may act against clusters in a multimodal fashion, and not have the possible side effects of arginine, ginseng. (I used turmeric and green tea with melatonin/5htp and magnesium last summer - a "dry cycle" where I didn't have any headaches, but had sleep problems, palpitations, and the other hallmarks of my usual cycle. Not normal, but mostly PF).

Quote:

Langenbecks Arch Chir Suppl Kongressbd. 1998;115(Suppl I):185-8.

[Pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-1 beta and TNF-alpha reduce growth hormone receptor mRNA concentration in cultivated rat hepatocytes after stimulation with growth hormone]

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Giovanni on Jan 1^st, 2004, 5:50pm

This whole question has me really wondering about the trigger that would cause me to get cluster headaches at the age of 47. I had been in numerous, consecutive clinical trails for 5 years with elevated cholesterol. During this time I tested various drugs for lowering cholesterol including the last drug now called Zocar. I did not have CH at the beginning of these trials, but at the end of the 5 years they had developed. The M.D., Pharm D. at the clinic diagnosed me and then I was referred to the neurologist that I still have. I wonder if these drugs during this time might have contributed to this nightmare. Incidentally, I had discontinued Zocar about 3 years ago feeling that it made the headaches worse.

[smiley=twocents.gif]

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by Melissa on Jan 2^nd, 2004, 6:04pm

Since I have lost weight on Atkins, and am sticking to this way of eating for the rest of my life, I will definately keep a journal for my next cycle, to see if my diet has any effect on my clusters. I have been thinking about this for awhile now, wondering if cutting my carbs and sugar, and increasing my fats and protein perhaps will have an impact. I haven't seen any CH'ers post their experiences with low-carb and clusters, so am excited to see what, if anything, will happen. I do know of MANY many people who's bad cholesterol has come down, and BP and tryglycerides have become normal, thier arthritis has disappeared, etc. So who knows? This is an interesting read, and I thank you for posting it.

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by CJohnson on Jan 7^th, 2004, 11:07am

Here, a link is proposed between fat metabolism and melatonin via melatonin receptors in human adipose tissue. Also, long term melatonin treatment on certain melatonin binding sites was found to decrease glucose uptake.

Endocrinology Vol. 142, No. 10 4264-4271
Copyright © 2001 by The Endocrine Society

Functional Expression of MT2 (Mel1b) Melatonin Receptors in Human PAZ6 Adipocytes

Several reports have demonstrated that the pineal hormone, melatonin, plays an important role in body mass regulation in mammals. To date, however, the target tissues and relevant biochemical mechanisms involved remain uncharacterized. As adipose tissue is the principal site of energy storage in the body, we investigated whether melatonin could also act on this tissue. Semiquantitative RT-PCR analysis revealed the expression of MT1 and MT2 melatonin receptor mRNAs in the human brown adipose cell line, PAZ6, as well as in human brown and white adipose tissue. Binding analysis with 2-[125I]iodomelatonin (125I-Mel) revealed the presence of a single, high affinity binding site in PAZ6 adipocytes with a binding capacity of 7.46 ± 1.58 fmol/mg protein and a Kd of 457 ± 5 pM. Both melatonin and the MT2 receptor-selective antagonist, 4-phenyl-2-propionamidotetraline, competed with 2-[125I]iodomelatonin binding, with respective Ki values of 3 x 10-11 and 1.5 x 10-11 M. Functional expression of melatonin receptors in PAZ6 adipocytes was indicated by the melatonin-induced, dose-dependent inhibition of forskolin-stimulated cAMP levels and basal cGMP levels with IC50 values of 2 x 10-9 and 3 x 10-10 M, respectively. Modulation of the cGMP pathway by melatonin further supports functional expression of MT2 receptors, as this pathway was shown to be specific for that subtype in humans. In addition, long-term melatonin treatment of PAZ6 adipocytes was found to decrease the expression of the glucose transporter Glut4 and glucose uptake, an important parameter of adipocyte metabolism. These results suggest that melatonin may act directly at MT2 receptors on human brown adipocytes to regulate adipocyte physiology.

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/142/10/4264

PFDANs
-Curtis

Title: Re: Fresh Research: CH and fat metabolism
Post by CJohnson on Jan 13^th, 2004, 12:59pm

Your body needs fuel to burn for energy and heat. The type of fuel the body runs on is called glucose (blood sugar) which it manufactures from the food you eat, mainly carbohydrates. Once your food has been turned into glucose it enters the blood stream and cortisol (which is controlled by the hypothalamus and is messed up in clusterheads) tells it to go into the tiny furnaces in the brain and body cells where it's burned to make heat and energy, sort of like logs in a fireplace. If there isn't enough cortisol in the blood to tell the sugar to go to the cell furnaces, insulin (a hormone from the pancreas) clears the sugar from the blood and sends it into storage in the fat cells. This is why you can become weak and shaky, the red light is blinking on your fuel gauge...you need to gas up! This is why you feel like your blood sugar is crashing...It is! Although carbohydrates are the easiest to make glucose from, your body can make it from protein and fat, it just takes a lot longer. That's why when you run out of cortisol (and insulin stores your remaining glucose as fat) you'll crave carbohydrates and sweets, the body needs something it can make into fuel FAST! Your brain uses vast amounts of glucose and if you aren't producing enough cortisol your brain will not get enough fuel and you'll become groggy, tired and feel the need to go to sleep. Also if your life is stressful from high production, problems, illness, exercise or poor nutrition you'll use-up what little cortisol you have produced too early in the day, your blood sugar will crash and you'll become tired and groggy. If you are not producing enough cortisol life soon becomes a vicious cycle of the body running out of cortisol, then insulin storing your glucose as fat, the blood sugar crashing, you craving and eating carbohydrates, not enough cortisol to burn it as energy so insulin stores it as fat.

PFDANs
-Curtis