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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> psilocin migrain relief?
        
(Message started by: bigkahunas4 on Nov 10^th, 2003, 7:46pm)

Title: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by bigkahunas4 on Nov 10^th, 2003, 7:46pm

Hi,

I recently stumbled upon this site through another site as I was looking for relief to my migraines. I understand that this is a cluster headache site, but I'm pretty sure that their are similarities. Also this site was referred to with this contreversial method of relief. I was told that psilocin from "magic mushrooms" has been used to get rid of clusters. Apparently their is some connection with psilocin to immetrex and seratonin.

However, I took mushrooms last friday and have gotten two migraine headaches (although not severe) in the past week. I usually would get them about once a month.

Basically I'm asking if this method is still out there.. if there's any new research that has approved or overruled the theories i have heard. Thank you to anyone who can be of help

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Prense on Nov 10^th, 2003, 8:12pm

I honestly have no idea about migraines...

You will find a ton more info at www.clusterbusters.com though.

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by ave on Nov 10^th, 2003, 8:25pm

I am not 100% sure, but I thought research on these substances started out as research into curing or relieving migraines...

That apart, clusterheads who use shrooms will often get 1 or 2 very heavy attacks, as a sort of goodbye
gesture from the demon.

Wait and see if your migraines stay away. If there is a pattern to your migraines, you may find that pattern changed.
On the other hand, shrooms may do sh*t all for you...

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Karla on Nov 10^th, 2003, 8:47pm

Migraines and clusters are very different. I get both. They are different in the way they feel and they are different in what causes them. I can not believe that you would try shrooms for one migraine a month. I am quoting you for you said you have gotten two migraines in the last week where you usually get one headache a month. I think you are just looking for an excuse to use an illegal substance. We as cluster headache suffers are talking about people who get up to 8-10 headaches a day every day of every week of every month of every year. They need preventative medicines. You don't even need a preventative. You need an abortive which shrooms are not. Have you tried imitrix, zomig, axert, frova, amerge, migranol, dhe, etc. these are to be taken at the time of the headache and work for migraines as well as clusters. You should see a neurologist who should have you taking an abortive not a preventative. Leave the shrooms alone and stick with something simple that works.

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by bigkahunas4 on Nov 10^th, 2003, 8:54pm

I would first like to thank the current replies as they have been very helpful.. I'd also like to comment on the last reply..

I am well aware that many people experience clusters and migraines in cases which are much more dramatic than mine. I however, understand the pain and agony that goes with migraines and waiting for them to happen... having to structure your life around them. I am not looking for an excuse to try mushrooms or any illegal substance. Just being able to live without worrying about migraines is all i'm looking for.

Once again thank you for the replies so far.. any others will be helpful as well

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Prense on Nov 10^th, 2003, 9:24pm

on 11/10/03 at 20:54:06, bigkahunas4 wrote:

I however, understand the pain and agony that goes with migraines and waiting for them to happen...

While probably true, you wont find too many clusterheads that would associate migraines with agony. Also, the once a month thing...that is synonymous with PF for a clusterhead. Not bashing you BigK, but you can see why this board is strictly CH related. It is that way for quite a few reasons.

I personally wish that no one had to experience HAs of any sort...

Good luck!

Chris

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by JDH on Nov 10^th, 2003, 10:35pm

bk,
Here's a couple of links that mention migraines and psilocybin. Most of the info available is ch related.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard/messages/57757.html

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml

good luck,
Jim

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by tommyD on Nov 10^th, 2003, 10:45pm

Psilocybin, LSD and some other hallucinogens have an indole ring structure in their molecules that seems to be the key to their preventive effect on cluster headaches. The ClusterBusters recommend psilocybin mushrooms for practical and legal reasons, though it’s possible LSD could be more effective.

Legend has it that chemist Albert Hoffman was looking for migraine treatments when he formulated LSD. And there was research done in the fiities and sixties on using LSD to treat migraines. Sorry I don’t have a reference at hand. As far as I know, no further research has been done on this since LSD and the others were made illegal back then. But there is speculation indole-ring hallucinogens might be useful in treating migraines. You experience doesn’t seem to bear that out though, at least so far. Please let us know how things go.

I think this is of significant interest. Don’t worry if some folks get a little huffy about migraines. They forget that “one migraine a month” can last for days. We do share some common interests after all. Like the price of Imitrex...

By the way, Imitrex and the other triptans have a molecule that’s not all that different from the indole-ring hallucinogens.

And Karla, there is some preliminary evidence shrooms in very small doses will work as an abortive. These doses are a fraction of the usual medicinal dose, which is only a quarter or a half as much as a recrerational dose. So don't worry, no one's having too much fun.

-tommyD

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by JDH on Nov 10^th, 2003, 11:06pm

on 11/10/03 at 20:47:51, Karla wrote:

You don't even need a preventative. You need an abortive which shrooms are not.

taken from clusterbusters.com

Quote:

Abortive treatment
Use of hallucinogenic substances for treating cluster headaches shows its best results when used as a preventative. This is not generally considered an abortive treatment for individual attacks but is used in hopes of aborting entire cycles. There are times though that it is very effective as an abortive treatment during the process of breaking a cycle and in treating oncoming "shadows."

8.1 Use as an abortive

Many people have reported the complete remission of a "shadow" by placing a single mushroom "cap" under tongue. The symptoms usually disappear completely within 30 minutes. See "dosing" for aborting cycles.

Jim

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 11^th, 2003, 1:48am

There is no current official research going on regarding migraines and psilocin/psilocybin as far as I know. I'd like to think I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Since I believe in the treatment, I wouldn't presume to try and decide who is suffering enough to try it. Since *I* think it's safer than even imitrex, I wouldn't therefore suggest imitrex over psilocybin, even for migraines.

FDA approval does not necessarily mean something is safe. People thought so before they took thalidomide...phen phen....mulit-dose immunizations, on which the jury is still out....Just means it's legal.
BUT, there hasn't been enough research done on psilocybin to end the need for serious consideration, thought and personal research of all the information, prior to deciding upon its use.

Imitrex does not work for all migraine sufferers but IF it works for you.....there is a chance psilocybin might also.
I personally know a couple migraine sufferers that have had varying degrees of success.
Migraines are a different type of complicated disease. I don't think there are as many complicated mechanisms at play that change the frequencies of attacks for clusters as there are for migraines. i.e., I think the same basic mechanisms are involved whether you get 8 cluster attacks per day as you do if you get 1 attack per day.
I also believe that different mechanisms and triggers are involved depending on whether you get one migraine per month or daily intractable transformed migraines.
This said, I think the success/failure rates for migraines, in general, may be significantly lower than for clusters, but until we see more research, we won't know. Early research was supposedly very promising for migraines.

The increase in migraine activity that you experienced may be the a "normal" reaction some cluster sufferers go through before the cycle fades away. On the other hand, I myself might be a little concerned that you may have affected one of those migraine mechanisms that wasn't previously giving you any trouble. I would wait to see if you experience ANY benefit from your recent treatment before expanding upon your own personal experiences with it.
The people I know that did have success with them, for migraines used a very tiny amount....one small cap under the tongue, at the first sign of a migraine, which eliminated their migraine activity for an extended period of time.

Good luck,
Be smart,
Be safe,
Be well,
PF

Title: Different Countries, Different Laws ??
Post by floridian on Nov 11^th, 2003, 11:41am

Laws against psiloc* drugs are pretty strict in the US. How do laws vary in other countries? Is it decriminalized in the Netherlands and available in cafes? I heard once that personal possession of most illicit drugs in Spain is a minor offence likely to get only a warning and/or counselling or detox while legal penalties are reserved for dealers. What about Canada? Forbes just did an article on Canada's #1 cash crop which seems to be a low law enforcement priority. While ganja doesn't interest me at all, I was wondering if the laws there would also allow medical use of shrooms for clusters. It would be nice to go on vacation to get medical treatment without the possible legal side effects that are present in the US.

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by jminmilwaukee on Nov 11^th, 2003, 12:40pm

Floridian,

Catch Air Sunshine to the British Virgin Islands or fly into St. Thomas (USVI) and ferry over to the BVI. SHrooms a plenty and not a problem to obtain and use.

For added fun go down during a full moon or no moon party at Bomba's Shack located on Tortola. Shroom tea served at 9:00 and midnight for all to enjoy.

This is my way of treating myself and NOT breaking the law. Some say "this is too expensive" but airfare and a few nights lodging are nothing compared to months of clusters and prescription drugs. Not to mention the whole hanging out in paradise for a few days to boot.

Just my 2c

Jmin

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by ave on Nov 11^th, 2003, 1:51pm

Floridian, to answer your question, schrooms have never been criminalized in the Netherlands (YET).

The ministry of Health brought out a report some years ago now, stating that schrooms werd not dangerous, not dependency-forming. The mInistry of Justice, that likes to sue everybody, had conniptions!

I go into town, do some fun shopping, pass by the smart shop with the elf figurines in the window and a large plywood toadstool outside, chat with the proprietor and buy my shrooms and then go home again.

Sorry if I made you jealous... grow your own is all I can advise, if you are not close to the Netherlands. Or you might do a small holiday trip to enjoy them "in situ"

Title: Cluster Tourism
Post by floridian on Nov 11^th, 2003, 4:06pm

Can't decide which sounds better - the Netherlands or the Virgin Islands. The islands are closer, and probably cheaper/easier to get to. Tropical paradise, strains of peaceful music and surf hitting the beach. Nice. But the Netherlands would be pleasantly cool in June or July, and maybe I could tour Amsterdam and then swing up through Germany, Denmark, and Norway. Hmmm. Decisions, decisions.

Any other cluster tourism hotspots??

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 11^th, 2003, 6:22pm

Quote:

Some say "this is too expensive" but airfare and a few nights lodging are nothing compared to months of clusters and prescription drugs.

It's still expensive for some poor bastards but...
Fair enough, if all you're gonna need is one dose. If you're an unfortunate bastard like me who had to dose every 5 or 7 days for 4 months, then ya just settle for the mind trip and forget about the body trip.

--- Steve

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by ave on Nov 12^th, 2003, 3:45am

's why I said: grow your own. How are you doing, btw, steve?

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Mark C on Nov 12^th, 2003, 8:39am

Been Episodic for 27 years.....never, I mean NEVER broke a cycle...till this year. I have had every drug known so far. Triptans work, but this stopped it...cold......MY experience......http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1067037622

Oh yeah....still PF close to a Month later too!

PFDAN's
Mark

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by jminmilwaukee on Nov 12^th, 2003, 2:47pm

In reality it can be an expensive trip of course. I am just trying to promote the idea that this can be done in a legal fashion. If you really wanted to give it a go and you could spare a few dollars of your med money then take a vacation and co for it.

Or you can grow your own and take your chances. My friends cousins uncles pet doberman named shroomey who was a shut in down in the swamps of florida "apparently" had great success with this method. :)

Of course I have "heard" stories while living in Florida that august is a great time of year to walk through the cow fields!

good luck,
jmin

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 12^th, 2003, 7:38pm

Hi Ave,

Thanks for asking. I'm doing okay, I consider myself lucky that verapamil has also been very effective for me. Of course, I wish I could stop taking it... but I'm very glad I have something that works for now. If needed I can start the farm again on a moments notice.

I do think we're onto something with the shrooms. They definately had an impact on my CH. The treatment has a sound theoretical basis, but more importantly, many real live success testimonials.

The thing that we probably all find most frustrating is that there are several 'legal government drugs' that we can take... but at great cost to our health in other ways and with limited success. But here is this Thing, which is illegal, and yet ironically much safer to take.

You can attend all the philosophy seminars, and yet never imagine that it would be you in the situation.... you know what I'm talking about....
"if your family was starving, would you steal to feed them" or "if you had an illness, and only an illegal substance could help you, would you take it?", etc. Philosophical dilemmas. For me it was a no-brainer. But 10 years ago, I would never have imagined...

Life is strange.

BTW... I liked Philosophy class very much... perhaps, ultimately, it is really just Mental Masturbation... but it is fun.

--- Steve

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by Mark C on Nov 12^th, 2003, 8:52pm

on 11/12/03 at 19:38:54, eyes_afire wrote:

BTW... I liked Philosophy class very much... perhaps, ultimately, it is really just Mental Masturbation... but it is fun.

--- Steve

Use your left brain....it feels like somebody else! ;;D

Title: Re: psilocin migrain relief?
Post by rick on Nov 13^th, 2003, 2:10am

Big Kahunas,

I have a close friend that suffers from migraines on a fairly regular basis. Having experienced success with psilocin in treating my clusters, he decided to give the therapy a try. To date, he has had only positive results, which he describes to be amazing. I need to give him a call and see how he is doing, and I'll let you know what he says.

Rick