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Title: Diet for pain relief Post by TerryChar on Aug 21st, 2003, 12:44pm I have experienced Cluster Headaches for about 25 years now (medically diagnosed). But about 5 years ago. I discovered something that works so well for me, that I can now get through an entire active phase without a single bad headache!!! A few years ago I purchased a book at my healthfood store called “Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing”, written by James F. Balch, M.D. and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C. This book lists a large number of illnesses, health problems, etc., and recommendations for natural treatment. The next time I began to suffer my cluster headaches, I looked in the book to see what I could find. There was nothing for cluster headaches, so I read the section on migraines. I decided to try the recommended treatment just for the heck of it, to see if it might work for me. Much to my amazement, the headaches stopped IMMEDIATELY. It was like a miracle! Now, each time I feel myself entering an active phase, I immediately start the program, and I do not suffer a single headache for the entire period, unless I screw up. In fact, I am so pain free, that the only way I can tell if I am still in the active period or not, is to go off the program and see if I get a headache or not! I highly recommend that you buy the book yourself and follow the instructions, but I will tell you here about the dietary guidelines. I cannot guarantee this will work for everyone, but please try it – it might work! What have you got to lose, but pain? At the first indication you are entering an active phase (or if you are currently in an active phase), IMMEDIATELY and COMPLETELY eliminate the following from your diet: aged meats, avocados, bananas, cabbage, canned fish, dairy products, eggplant, cheese, potatoes, rasberries, red plums, tomatoes (or any tomato products), yeast, all alcoholic beverages, aspirin, chocolate, monosodium glutamate (MSG), nitrites (preservatives found in hot dogs and lunch meats) and spicy foods. Avoid salt and acid forming foods such as meat, cereal, bread and grains, and also avoid fried foods and fatty or greasy foods. It is recommended to include in the diet: raw almonds, watercress, parsley, fennel, garlic, cherries and fresh pineapple. Also, include supplements of calcium and magnesium, vitamins B&C and Coenzyme Q-10. There are a number of other supplements and herbs listed in the book as well, and also some other recommendations. I have found the headaches can also be brought on by over-exertion, by extremes of temperature, by fatigue and by exposure to chemical fumes (car exhaust, cleaning products, etc.) or cigarette smoke, so these are best avoided as well. This is not in the book, but it is my own belief that the headaches happen because we build up too much toxicity in our system over time, and our body’s way of reacting to this is to become hyper-sensitive to the above listed foods and substances (they contain an amino acid called tyramine). Therefore, during an active period I also try to cleanse my system as much as possible, by taking some herbal de-tox supplements, drinking lots of water, and avoiding any kind of food additives, chemicals, etc. I use this time to “clean house” and become as healthy as possible. Moderate exercize and lots of rest are recommended. As I said earlier, if I follow this plan, I will not get a headache unless I ingest one of the foods/drinks on the list. And the only way I can tell when an active period is finished is to periodically eat one of the trigger foods to see if it gives me a headache. Even when I do get a headache, it is somehow not so bad now, or at least not so scary, since I know what causes it and that I have the ability to control whether I get headaches or not. I realize the diet does not leave much that you CAN eat, and it can be challenging, especially at restaurants. But if it means NOT suffering from the horrible headaches, it is well worth the inconvenience. If anyone decides to try this program, please post here (or e-mail me if you like) to say whether it works for you! Actually, I want to add, in case you are wondering why I was even looking at cluster headache websites, if I have the problem so well under control. I recently moved and couldn’t find my “Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing” book, and wanted to refresh my memory of the list of trigger foods. I thought for sure the info must be known to other cluster headache sufferers, and hoped to find the list posted. When I saw no mention of it anywhere, I dug through my boxes til I found the book, and thought I should post the info here myself, in case it is of help to others. Terry :) |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by floridian on Aug 23rd, 2003, 9:00pm Some of these reccommendations are obviously useful: magnesium is known to help with clusters, alcohol and nitrites (including in many meats such as sausage, ham, bacon) are triggers. MSG is involved in promoting pain transmission in the trigeminal nerve/NMDA receptors. Cabbage (and broccoli, cauliflower, etc) block thyroid activity. Cherries are rich in proanthocyandins, which have many beneficial effects. Fresh pineapple is a good source of bromelain, which has anti-inflammitory properties. I would take issue with avoiding "spicy foods" - the terms spice and spicy are too broad to be meaningful. Cayenne pepper is helpful in turning down levels of substance P, which is a pain neurotransmitter. Other spices like ginger and turmeric contain potent anti-inflammitory compounds which are comparable to cortisone, phenylbutazone, and celebrex (but with fewer side effects) in various tests. Your idea about toxicities is undoubtedly true in some cases. I would suggest another possibility - foods that are very high in protein, fat, and sugar tend to displace fruits and vegetables. Increasing the amount of meat, dairy, and grain by a 'modest' amount leads to a large decrease in fruits and vegetables in the diet. This could easily result in a lack of nutritional factors that ordinarily help block clusters. Also, after looking at all the things that are prohibited (meat, grains, dairy. potatoes, tomatoes, etc), it doesn't seem like there is much left - some fruits and vegetables. What about fresh fish and tofu for protein? Also - what about flax oil? It is a prime source of essential fatty acids, probably more beneficial than fish oil. I would think that the diet you describe would be worthwhile for a short time if it could break a cycle, but is too restrictive for long term compliance. It would be easier if we could identify the toxicities and triggers and avoid them entirely, and supplement an otherwise almost normal diet to get the benefits of the good stuff. Well, enough food for thought. I would like to hear more about diet and clusters. |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by Karla on Aug 23rd, 2003, 10:31pm It is now believed by popular scientists and doctors and specialists that cluster headaches are caused from a brain abnormality. I think the fact that diet is working for you is either coincidental or you do not have cluster headaches and have been misdiagnosed when in fact you probably have migraines. Foods effect migraines alot where they don't clusters. |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by Prense on Aug 23rd, 2003, 10:55pm on 08/23/03 at 22:31:36, Karla wrote:
True, but they still have not pinned down what causes the attacks to occur when they do. Either way, these "fad diets" that deprive the body of specific nutrients needed can cause alot of problems over time. I would have to agree with Floridian in that it may benefit some episodics, but a long term diet like this for a chronic would be devastating. For me, I have never been able to tie a food type as a trigger. Sometimes I get hit after eating nothing at all! Chris |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 24th, 2003, 4:18am "triggers" and foods that "cause" CH and migraine mean different things I think. Alchohol is a trigger. It sets of a CH inside 30 mins when I am in cycle. Nithing else seems to do this for me. But... long term consumption of CH "causing" foods may build up "toxins" in the body and bring on an episode lasting months. This is what I believe causes the attack anyway. Somehow the CH sickness releases enough of this toxic overload until the levels kave gone down enough to stop the HAs. I reckon regular detox is the way to get rid of this and avoid the cycles before they start. A detox every 3 or 6 months is good for me. As for the "brain abnomality" theory. I don't buy into it. Sorry. I also don't buy into popular doctors and scientists. Many are just as much quacks as the guys Ueli despises! John |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by floridian on Aug 24th, 2003, 8:45am We KNOW alot about cluster headaches, but we still don't UNDERSTAND them. We know that the hypothalamus is usually different, but we can not say for sure yet that this is the "cause" of clusters. What causes the hypothalamus to change? It could be some change in hormones, mechanical injury, heat stress, a toxin, or genetic. Wouldn't that be the real cause of the disorder? The hypothalamus isn't where the pain occurs; other things are implicated in addition to the hypothalamus. Serotonin is disordered, but it alone is probably not the cause. Every piece of research helps describe the elephant, but usually only describes one or two aspects of the beast. That is how reductionist science works. Eventually, we should get enough information for the Gestalt. Even if the primary cause is not related to diet, it is possible to make major changes to body chemistry by changing what goes into it. These changes can improve serotonin balance, thyroid hormones, insulin/cortisol balance, magnesium, NMDA-glutamate, substance P, etc, etc. Not all of these are critical to clusters, but some may be. For me, daylength seems to be the most important destabilizing factor. But I am open to the idea that diet can provide some restabilizing support. The line between food and medicine is an arbitrary human distinction. Quote:
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by TerryChar on Aug 24th, 2003, 3:48pm I wasn't meaning to suggest this diet as a long-term thing. The rest of the time, when I am not in "active phase" I eat completely normally, including all of the "trigger" foods. They cause me no problem, except when I am in the active phase. And they are most definitely cluster headaches, not migraines, BELIEVE me, I know the difference. For 20 years I suffered with them til I found this diet thing. I stop all the trigger foods the moment I am aware I am entering an active phase, and continue with it the 5 or 6 weeks until I am out of the active phase. The only way I know for sure the phase is over is to try one of the trigger foods to see whether I get a headache or not, if not I know I can get back to my usual diet. During this current phase, I have had two bad headaches. One when I ate some potatoes, the second when I ate chocolate. When I am not in active phase, I eat potatoes all the time, and chocolate too. No headaches. They are only triggers during active phase, which happens once every 1 - 2 years, for about 6 weeks at a time. I eat a lot of fish, tofu, vegetables, brown rice and wholegrain pastas. etc. during this time. My diet is not as strict as the plan outlined by the book, I have experimented with it enough to know what I can get away with. I can have some dairy products, some fried foods, and breads, cereals, etc. don't seem to give me a problem. I do avoid "spicy" foods, I love Thai food, but at this time I order it mild instead of medium or hot. Actually, I don't know if it would trigger a headache or not if I ordered it hot, and maybe I'll get brave and try it next time. Instead of over-analyzing whether or not this SHOULD work, please just try it and see if it DOES work for you. If it works for other people besides me, then we need to look into it to see just WHY it works. All I know is that it does work for me, and it has changed my life. One thing important to know, is that it sometimes takes a few hours after ingesting a trigger food before the headache hits. I think that's why most people get headaches a night, because most of the trigger foods are things you would eat for dinner. Anyway, if you are in an active phase now, each time you get a headache, think back and see if you had any of the trigger foods from the list that day. I know it's a hard diet to follow, but please at least try it for a few days and see if your headaches stop. I really think it's worth a try! I am really curious to see if this works for anyone, I am hoping someone will try it and let me (any anyone else interested) know. |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by forgetfulnot on Aug 24th, 2003, 4:38pm Dr. Goadsby, leading C/H Doctor sez this Quote:
Lee |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by floridian on Aug 24th, 2003, 7:13pm The good doctor Goadsby is welcome to his opinion, but I want facts. A scan of medline shows that there is almost no published research on diet and clusters. One study indicated that there doesn't seem to be a classical immune allergy response in clusterheads, but doesn't prove that there is no connection between diet and CH. Where are the controlled studies to back up this view that diet has no effect? Is it true, or an article of faith? Others have said that nitrites in cured meats acts as a trigger for them. These anecdotes are consistent with what we know about other CH triggers that boost nitric oxide (alcohol, nitroglycerin, etc). Here is one published study that thinks food is an important factor. Quote:
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by forgetfulnot on Aug 24th, 2003, 10:57pm You ever been to Lincoln, Ne? I have, not very impressive. Something tells me that the best and brightest medical minds would migrate to larger more established institutions like the Cambridge Neurological institute in London, England. That's where Dr. G is. Not some small windblown midwestern town like Lincoln. However, if it feels good to ya, DO it. You are what ya eat. There is no debate about that. Lee ;) |
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Title: the return Post by rumplestiltskin on Aug 24th, 2003, 11:58pm while we hypothisize....expound on the possible explanation for what happens when a person makes no dietary changes and yet whose cycle ends. By what means are these toxins reduced, expelled or burned out as that person continues to eat the same "toxic" substances and triggers and yet goes pain free? ...and chronics? ...any thoughts on how they fit in....why aren't the toxins "expelled" like in the episodics? Whatever and however you stay painfree...I'm glad for you. A day without pain is good day. Wage Peace den |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 25th, 2003, 4:15am Hi rumpledforeskin When you have a cluster cycle you are sick with an illness. As with most illnesses the symptoms are the result of the body trying to kill off and eliminate the poisons making us ill. That why you have the shits, vomits, fever and stomach cramps when you have food poisoning etc. Thats why people who have gout or arthritis get joint pain until the inflamation is attacked by the body. It goes away until the overload gets too much the next time around. I reckon CH is the same. The body eliminates the crap and the cycle ends. Find a way to speed up this process and you will break the cycle quicker. Detox and diet can do this IMHO. Why should CH be different from gout, excema, acne and some much more serious stuff like cancer in that it is related to diet or intake of chemicals (smoking). Some get it and others don't. It all depends on the individual. I have a friend who has gout. When he is suffering he cannot touch alchohol or he is in agony the next day. When the gout has gone after a few weeks he can drink as much as he likes without any effect. What is different? They are probably both related to inflammation of some sort. This long term sensitivity is not the same as an allergy or a trigger which causes rapid onset of symptoms, it is a slow build up of whatever is toxic to the individual that causes the CH (my opinion). As for the chronics - I don't have much to offer by way of ideas, but perhaps they are even more sensitive to diet than the episodics. The Blood Group diet may hold some hope for them? John |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by godsjoy on Aug 25th, 2003, 7:00am A couple of cycles ago I tried to cleanse with doing some colonics.....and I tried to get my body more alcholine...SP? I didn't have the resources to keep up the cleansing like I would have liked....but I think it all lessened the intensity of the cycle....I think this is all very interesting....and yet so hard during a bad cycle....I end up feeling so bad I find it hard to have much discipline in my eating regimen.....I avoid the obvious...It takes time for any cleanse to even work.....They suggest a whole year of cleansing every 7 weeks..... I might try it all again sometime.....My cycle has lessened in intensity....I think mainly due to the verapamil....but I think I have another month before I'm out of the woods....I have a friend at church that has cancer and went to a special institute in Colorado to teach her and her husband a whole new lifestyle.....major eating changes.....Not a bad idea...but you really need support to do this... Blessings, Karen |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by TerryChar on Aug 25th, 2003, 7:05am To answer Dan, I don't know by what means the toxins are expelled or reduced in a person NOT following the diet, and whose headaches end. This is a good question. Over the years I have paid close attention to my own symptoms to try to make some sense out of this condition. One interesting thing I have noticed since I started the dietary treatement: Now, my active phase lasts longer than it did when I did not treat it with diet. When I simply got the headaches each day, my active phase lasted about 4 weeks. Since I started the dietary treatment, the phase lasts at least 6 weeks, sometimes a little longer. Why? It's a mystery to me. I would like to see a lot more research done on this. However, I really believe that it is better to treat this, or any illness, naturally if possible. Drugs treat symptoms, they do not cure, or get to the root of the cause of the condition. It's like those Tums commercials, where they promote eating all the spicy, greasy food you want, then when it makes you sick, take a stomach pill. Wouldn't it be easier, and better, if you just didn't eat the spicy, greasy food? |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by floridian on Aug 25th, 2003, 7:50am Quote:
Forgetfulnot, Sorry to hear you don't like Nebraska. Yes, I've been there, and have relatives from there. Cambridge is a fine school, but I wouldn't prejudge the quality of research based on the overall reputation of the school. I guess I sounded adversarial, but the scientific process usually is until there is enough research to settle an issue. Nutrition's role on clusters has barely been researched, and I haven't seen evidence that supports the claim that diet is not of consequence to CH. Also, did the name of the doctor in Nebraska did raise a red flag for you ... I mean, can we really trust someone named Trotsky?? ;D (just kidding) |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 25th, 2003, 8:54am Come on Ueli where are you? Isn't it time you climbed in and told us this thread is all bullshit? ;D :-X I for one am so glad to have seen some others on the board supporting similar theories to my own on diet causing CH. It's about time some really serious study was done on this, but where would the profit be for the drug companies producing expensive drugs like imitrex? I would have thought the medical insurance companies had everything to gain and should support this as it would save them mega bucks. I don't think it is necessary to follow a "fad diet" to achieve the long term PF goal we are all aiming for. It may be that cutting out just one type of food (I think it's mainly wheat for me) can solve the CH problem. I am reading the Peter D'Adamo's Eat Right 4 Your Type book. He reckons our blood group determines what foods cause us health problems. Like Terry I know when my cycle is in the start-up phase. I start to get almost daily mild headaches that increase in frequency and intensity for perhaps a month or more before the red hot poker stabbing, eye tearing, nose running, can't do anything about, it pain starts. When the tell tale signs start I do a detox and cut out any potential CH causing food. I also "try" and stay off the things I know are wrong for me, but it is really hard to avoid bread, cake, biscuits, pastry, sauces after 50 years of enjoying them. I manage fine for months and months and feel great, and then go off the wagon like at Christmas time and then start to get sluggish, but cannot get back on the wagon. I have been Ch and 99.9% HA free since the start of May 2002 and avoided my full blown cycle this year. I started to get some regular HA's for about 10 days and did a one week detox and they stopped. This post and some recent posts have motivated me to try again in earnest to eat right. I have avoided wheat entirely and cut down on dairy since last Friday morning and feel better already. I don't feel tired by mid-afternoon as I usually do, and feel more energetic and alert. I am eating lots of fruit, veg, nuts, honey, meat, eggs, a little dairy, and plenty of water (and some beer and wine!). This is not a "fad diet" as I don't believe I am depriving myself of any nutrients. I realize this may be some sort of placebo effect, but I do feel good. Long may it last. John |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by Ueli on Aug 26th, 2003, 8:51am http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/cartoon/daily/214.gif |
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Title: Re: Diet for pain relief Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 26th, 2003, 9:39am Nice one Ueli :D LOL I knew you had to be lurking in this thread somewhere! I'm glad you didn't diassapoint me! Cheers John |
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