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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
        
(Message started by: Enrique_Geiger on Jul 20^th, 2003, 1:13pm)

Title: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by Enrique_Geiger on Jul 20^th, 2003, 1:13pm

Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help more than anything I tried, so far.
Apparently it works like "shrooms," but it is legal, extremely inexpensive and readily available on the Internet.
I used a 10x concentration, inhaling the smoke that results from sustaining a flame on the substance, and holding my breath deep in my lungs for 20 seconds.
The onset is immediate.
I hope it helps you all, and that it continues to work for me.

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by HypnoticFreddy on Jul 20^th, 2003, 4:05pm

I posted about this ethnobotanic some months ago. Most people do not seem to think it is helpful for CHs. The 10X extract is quite strong. After several times of use, the pyschoactive effect kicks in. A very short (under 3 minutes) effect. Has anyone tried Morning Glory seeds?

-HypnoticFreddy

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by Ueli on Jul 20^th, 2003, 6:17pm

Since apparently nobody ever searches the archives :(, I do a copy and past job:

on 05/21/03 at 20:12:49, Ueli wrote:

CH is not something that is in your "head".
Otherwise you could try to get to the 4th dimension, by using any old hallucinogen, flip some stuff over and return cured from CH.
The fact that psilocybin and LSD can bring prolonged relieve from CH even at sub-hallucinogenic doses indicates that the trip is a mere side effect, enjoyed by some and others would gladly do without it.

The 'aromatic organic' compounds are characterized by one or more benzene rings, 6 carbon atoms in a hexagonal pattern with 3 double bonds.
Serotonin, and all the compounds active for CH (ergot and it derivatives, the triptans, psilocybin/psilobin and LSD), all have an indole ring, with 4 C atoms and a N-H group.
It looks like the indole ring is essential for an effect on clusters.

From what I've seen from chrismo's link the active compound of salvia has 3 (linked) benzene rings, but no indole ring. Therefore, salvia is probably not useful against clusters.

PFNADs
Ueli

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by Enrique_Geiger on Jul 20^th, 2003, 7:54pm

Ueli:
What you believe is of no concern to me.
Salvia helped me.
I don't sell Salvia or anything else.
Your combative attitude only keeps me away from this forum.
By the way, ergotamine helped me only once, proving to me that your theoretical only approach, disregarding empirical data is faulty, and a disservice to us, all.
I had a month and a half of clusters, lately, and your glorified Imitrex failed miserably, and only Stadol helped partially, with Salvia coming to the rescue.
Also, bear in mind that Salvia doesn't resemble any other psychoactive substance, like LSD or Mushrooms, yet it does produce some similar effects.
I wish you were less theoretical and more accepting of evidence and reality, for the benefit of us all.
I believe that you mean well, but you must be more accepting of reality, even if it is in conflict with your theoretical perception (Remember the discarded theories of the past, like the Ether Theory, which Einstein's Theory of Relativity put to rest?).

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by CJohnson on Jul 21^st, 2003, 10:05am

Salvia divinorum, whose main active ingredient is the neoclerodane diterpene Salvinorin A, is a hallucinogenic plant in the mint family that has been used in traditional spiritual practices for its psychoactive properties by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico. More recently, S. divinorum extracts and Salvinorin A have become more widely used in the U.S. as legal hallucinogens. We discovered that Salvinorin A potently and selectively inhibited (3)H-bremazocine binding to cloned kappa opioid receptors. Salvinorin A had no significant activity against a battery of 50 receptors, transporters, and ion channels and showed a distinctive profile compared with the prototypic hallucinogen lysergic acid diethylamide (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds). Functional studies demonstrated that Salvinorin A is a potent kappa opioid agonist at cloned kappa opioid receptors expressed in human embryonic kidney-293 cells and at native kappa opioid receptors expressed in guinea pig brain. Importantly, Salvinorin A had no actions at the 5-HT(2A) serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target responsible for the actions of classical hallucinogens. Salvinorin A thus represents, to our knowledge, the first naturally occurring nonnitrogenous opioid-receptor subtype-selective agonist. Because Salvinorin A is a psychotomimetic selective for kappa opioid receptors, kappa opioid-selective antagonists may represent novel psychotherapeutic compounds for diseases manifested by perceptual distortions (e.g., schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders). Additionally, these results suggest that kappa opioid receptors play a prominent role in the modulation of human perception.

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/salvinorin-a.htm

If it helped you, that's great. However, information which demonstrates that salvia divinorum (or elements thereof) acts on some known (or proposed) mechanism of the CH anomoly, would go a long way toward lending validity to this treatment modality. From the small amount of searching I have done, and the evidence Ueli provided, it looks like salvia divinorum does not act on a known mechanism of CH. At least not in a conventional sense.

PFDANs
-Curtis

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by floridian on Jul 21^st, 2003, 6:33pm

A medicine doesn't have to to work on the serotonin system to help with clusters. Baclofen acts on the GABA system, and it has helped some people. Dopamine and norepinephrine are also screwed up in most clusterheads, and tweaking them might help. Other medicines don't bind directly to any receptors, but they do change the activity of receptors.

On the other hand, I am too friggin old to deal with something as intense as the divining salvia, legal or not. I am looking elsewhere.

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 21^st, 2003, 11:31pm

on 07/21/03 at 18:33:23, floridian wrote:

Just an opinion from an interested party...
You're right, they don't need to work on the serotonin system to help some people.
First of all, just to qualify your statement and the report from Enrique....all information is important. Even if it just initiates further discussion on the subject of finding the "origin" of clusters. The effects of Salvia D. should be considered when viewing the overall affects of this class of drugs (hallucinogens) on clusters.

For those people looking into the actions of indole ring compounds, it "appears" that this is getting closer to the "core" of the problem and a solution.
Although it also appears that non-indole ring compounds may be taking a step backward in the research, they may very well help some people, just as verapamil helps some people. That aside, adding information gained from research with Salvia and related compounds may very well help everyone [anyone] zero in on the "final answer."

Just as another aside.....I remember well when I too used to say to my doctor..."This verapamil is great. Since we added it to the 1200mg of Depakote I only need to use 4 shots of Imitrex a week and I'm down to one "H" tank a week. What a success!!!"
I no longer consider THAT a success story.

PF

Title: Re: Salvia Divinorum Seems to Help
Post by CJohnson on Jul 22^nd, 2003, 7:37am

on 07/21/03 at 18:33:23, floridian wrote:

Salient points, all. However, before I am willing to consider the efficacy of a hallucinagenic for prophylaxis of CH, I would like to have some data which shows that it acts on some aspect of the CH mechanism.
How do kappa opioid-selective antagonists affect the process which ultiomately leads to experiencing the intense pain? Do they block the release of inflammatory neuropeptides? Do they manipulate ion channels? Do they alter perception?

PFDANs
-Curtis