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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> cranio sacral therapy
        
(Message started by: Mr_Nestle on Jun 30^th, 2003, 10:35am)

Title: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Mr_Nestle on Jun 30^th, 2003, 10:35am

I will make this first post brief. I have been a hard sufferer for over a decade, with my headaches coming every 2 yrs approx and lasting for about 3-4 months. I have had cluster headaches since I was approx 10 yrs old; I just didn't know what they were.

I have tried Imitrex and Zomig, with not a lot of success.

Just 2 wks ago, a friend suggested cranio sacral therapy, which was very successful for her migraines (not clusters). I have had 3 treatments, spaced about 5-7 days apart. My wife learned 2 very simple techniques from the therapist in a couple of minutes.

Here is the amazing part: she has been able to stop a headache dead in it's tracks by doing the treatment to me for about 4 mins each time. One minute I am heading into a zinger of a headache; then she has taken it away.

She just took away my headache this morning, so we hurried to put this info on the site. The next headache should hit about 12 hrs from now, and she'll do the treatment on me again. We'll let you know how it is going, but I urge you to find a cranio sacral therapist in your area ASAP.

Please contact me if you want more details.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Margi on Jun 30^th, 2003, 11:39am

Yes!! Please tell us EXACTLY how your wife does this!!

I have a friend who's a cranial sacral therapist and she's been telling me for years that she could help clusters, but I've never believed her.

You'd be doing sufferers (AND supporters) a world of good if you would tell us how to abort a headache!! Please?

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Ueli on Jun 30^th, 2003, 12:09pm

Craniosacral Therapy (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cranial.html)

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by BobG on Jun 30^th, 2003, 8:19pm

It's a shame that we can't hunt these people down and silence them for the emotional, physical and financial damage they attempt by surfing the internet pain sites looking for suckers.

Here's some more names involved in the craniosacral scheme:

John E. Upledger is listed as a ‘Promoters of Questionable Methods’ in the same Quackwatch website that Ueli mentioned.
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/

Carol Gray, a Portland, Oregon midwife

Elsah Cort, RN, Certified Massage Therapist and bed and breakfast owner.

Mike Boxhall
Mike's "Working with Insecurity" class, begin with dinner on Sunday and finish at noon on Friday in three modules. The cost is $950 per level, and includes room and board. A $200 deposit is due with registration.

Note to Mr_Nestle.........We are on to your scam. Please go away.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Mr_Nestle on Jun 30^th, 2003, 9:51pm

Your response to me "we are on to your scam" is pathetic. This is the first time that I have seen this website for clusterheads (of which I am one) and the first day that I have logged on to share my good news about my headache relief.

I really don't care if you don't believe me. But I know the pain that you live through; it is the same pain that I live through every 2 years. Each person seems to have their own story about which pill or idea (water treatment?) seems to work, and this is/was supposedly a safe place to share our stories with other clusterheads who know what we go through. I am almost annoyed at the thought that when my wife took away my pain this morning and tonight, I might add, my first thought was to post this treatment for other clusterheads to read about. I would be willing to say "screw you" except the pain is too real for too many people around the globe, and so I thought to post what we are going through. If just one other person finds relief like I do, it is worth it.

Sorry if I have offended anyone. Obviously I won't be writing again.

I read the posted cranial sacral page. And you're right; it sounds hokey. Ask a doctor if they'd recommend chiropractic treatment.

Here's the bottom line: today my wife has taken away two headaches with very inexperienced, novice hands. Today is one extra day that those stupid headaches didn't steal me away from my two kids and wife. It worked. And I trusted this site to not judge my post.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 30^th, 2003, 10:55pm

So sorry but feelings are not allowed around here, rather than rant, tell us just exactly how this deal works.
That is all we want to know.

Lee

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by dellp on Jun 30^th, 2003, 10:58pm

Great news, Mr Nestle, I'm glad you found a drugless approach that works for you.

You just missed an interesting debate about chiropractic (which didn't help my CH) and acupuncture (which has saved my butt many times.) Check out the thread "FYI for Ulie and others" by yours truely. Under different circumstances you might even find it amusing.

I find it interesting that drugless the approaches don't seem to be of interest to most people here. I posted about my success with tryptophan and even referrenced OUCH.com with scientific reasoning why it should have widespread results, and it was pretty much ignored.

It is sad that this potential for relief is pretty much being ignored but there is nothing to do about it. Just be glad we have found relief for ourselves.

This really is a great group of wacky people here. They do a lot of good work.

Best of luck to ya, Mr Nestle.
And PFDAN to all,
Dell

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Marc on Jun 30^th, 2003, 11:09pm

Hey Dell,

Remember when you first posted? I do - you jumped right in and told us what had/has worked for you. I think that if Mr. Nestle is really a CHer and has a success story, some people will listen. But after two posts, still no details.........

Unfortunately, this fits the pattern used by soooooo many people who have come here selling snakeoil. Can you really blame us for be gun shy?

Marc

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by dellp on Jul 1^st, 2003, 9:03am

on 06/30/03 at 23:09:24, Marc wrote:

The link provided by Ueli details in depth the philosophy and and application on the technique in question. Only a practitioner could give more information; a patient can only give his/her impression of what went on.

on 06/30/03 at 23:09:24, Marc wrote:

Unfortunately, this fits the pattern used by soooooo many people who have come here selling snakeoil. Can you really blame us for be gun shy?

The big difference here is that neither Mr. Nestle nor myself are selling anything. We did not give you our website to purchase a product - we will not make a penny off our suggestions. Salesmen of any type are here to sell, we are just trying to help others by telling what has helped us.

I guess what bothers me most about the approach of rebuttal I have seen here is that individuals are stating a personal opinion, sometimes backed with proof of others belief in that same opinion and claiming that it is the absolute proof that they are right. The truth of it is that their opinion is no more valid than my opinion or yours. It brings to mind the governments explanation of UFO's - do they exist? I don't know, but I do know it's not all swamp gas!

No, I don't blame you for being gun-shy but I think it a shame when people don't think for themselves. Don't try to read between the lines, don't make assumptions. Read the words written, ask questions and make-up your own mind for yourself.

Dell

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by KenB on Jul 1^st, 2003, 9:32am

I agree with those sentiments Dell. I'm quite new to this site myself and I have noticed a lot of scepticism. It's already generally accepted that there is no single treatment that works for everyone. It's also accepted that there is still a lot of research required to discover the underlying causes of our pain. It appears to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that if you post something on the meds board that is a non prescription solution you seem to get jumped on from all sides (the notable exceptions being the water treatment and O2). However, if you come in here and mention a new or existing drug that you're taking people seem more likely to accept it (and often even suggest some other drugs too!). I would propose that the content of this site would be a lot more valuable if people didn't feel the need to comment on everything they don't agree with - a little restraint would prevent threads from getting out of control and turning into "I know more than you do about this subject" discussions". Anyway - it's only a suggestion - at the end of the day I'm only new to this board. :)

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Mr_Nestle on Jul 1^st, 2003, 9:41am

For my husband, this is what worked:

He lied on the bed, with his head at the end, and I was on my knees on the floor, so that I could place my hands on his head.

The first move that I tried, was to place my hands on his forehead, my middle finger centered above his eyebrow. The other fingers were spaced about an inch apart, naturally, in a spread hand position.

What the therapist said to do, was to keep contact with the skin/bone and try to lift the bone straight up. So I picture trying to raise my fingers to the ceiling, yet still keeping contact with the skin. This lifts the bone plate up enough to allow the proper flow of the blood vessals below. I did this for about 3-4 mins.

The second move is trickier. I had to try and find the ridge (she called it a suture) between the side bone plates and the top plate, and just catch it with my fingers and pull towards me. Looking down at the top of my husband's head, my fingertips are sort of along the sides. I run my fingers up over the bump, try to feel the suture, then move just to the topside of it, and there's my spot. She said apply a bit of pressure to grab, then gently pull my hands towards me. If I feel that I'm applying too much pressure, then I back off. It is a very tiny amount of contact between the fingers and the skin/bone. This is the one that really works for my husband. After a couple mins, he can feel the headache move from his left side, where it ALWAYS is to the right, so that it is in both temple areas, then it "lifts away" (that's how he describes it.)

The therapist does other moves too, but those are the two that worked on my husband, so those are the ones that she showed me to try.

Yesterday we got rid of two headaches without meds.
That's enough proof for us.

Mrs Nestle

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Margi on Jul 1^st, 2003, 10:29am

Thanks for posting this Mrs. Nestle - looks like you were able to abort your hubby's headache within about 6 minutes?
I'm not sure my husband could lay still that long during an attack, but it's sure worth a try.
Again, thanks for posting proof that you're not trying to sell anything here.
I'm glad you've found relief for your husband. Keep up that great supporting work you're doing!

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Bob P on Jul 1^st, 2003, 11:20am

Obviously, judging from the shape of hub's head, he's been pulling the top of his head up for some time but he still gets attacks.
http://pahlow.net/ch/archive/archive/images/hub.jpg

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by iJun G4 on Jul 1^st, 2003, 2:07pm

I don't quite understand the excessive paranoid skepticism abundant here. If it's a scam, it's a scam, and smart people aren't going to fall for it.

I think there's a mentality built-up in Western societies where if you aren't hacking up someone's body or using chemicals which can have serious side-effects, it can't be called medicine. Whatever.

What I am challenging is that not even the most enlightened people here know EVERYTHING to know about CH, or why haven't you found the ultimate cure? How do you positively know that a new, non-drug method absolutely does not work, ESPECIALLY if you have not even tried it once yourself? I think the knee-jerk reaction categorically rejecting non-drug methods is bogus. If I remember right, we need all the help we can.

If a sufferer claims to have found something that works, let's not automatically blast him out of the water. We might be pissing away some valuable info. without even listening. A few posts will prove whether or not there's any kind of validity, and the people who come to this website can make decisions for ourselves. If you are a die-hard skeptic of all things and don't want to try, fine. As for the snakeoil, they don't stand a chance anyway.

I don't buy that the so-called skepticism here is based on science in any kind of way. Try using science to explain exactly why Predinsone works for CH, please. The last time I checked, the research doctors weren't quite sure. But if it works, it works, and we use it. Same thing for things like acupuncture and maybe this cranio sacral therapy thing. I don't think anyone's trying to claim that it's an end-all cure for all CH. But if it works some times for some people, it's a solution. I don't think there is any type of medicine out there that works universally for everyone.

CH has been known for at least 100 years; isn't it time for us to make a bit more progress to get rid of this? Deliberate ignorance of anything unfamiliar is not going to help. We need a systematic method of determining what works and what doesn't, not just kicking out what we think might not work. We should encourage fellow sufferers to experiment with methods they feel comfortable with, and post results to share the knowledge.

If all you want to do is beat up on snakeoil salesmen, go find one in your community; let each of the readers here decide on whether or not the info. if bogus or useful. We have the right to make up our own minds, at least here in America.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by BobG on Jul 1^st, 2003, 8:54pm

True ijun, as far as it goes.

Quote:

If it's a scam, it's a scam, and smart people aren't going to fall for it.

But, even the smartest people, when suffering from the WORST pain know to man, can become desperate for any hope of relief. Even the most outlandish ideas, devices, drugs, scams and schemes can sound good when someone is faced with making the decision between suicide or life.

After you’ve been here for a while, I have from almost the beginning of this site, you develop a skepticism of posts like Nestle’s.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by dellp on Jul 1^st, 2003, 10:38pm

on 06/30/03 at 20:19:52, BobG wrote:

BobG, healthy skepticism is one thing, your earlier statements are something else.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by kellya408 on Jul 2^nd, 2003, 9:27pm

Mr. (& Mrs.) Nestle:

I had heard little things (non-specific) here and there about cranio sacral therapy. I actually had planned on asking my doctor for more information at my appointment on 7/3.
What specific type of therapist does yours refer to herself/himself as? (i.e. certifications, degrees etc). I looked in the yellow pages and major hospital referral websites, but didn't see a mention of cranio sacral therapists.
I can sometimes tell when my headaches are about to start and would love to be able to abort them instead of wait and see what happens. With all the prescriptions they've given me to try and stop my current cycle (its helped the intensity but I still have "shadows"), I hate to take anything else if the pain doesn't require it - not to mention the intolerance many people build to medicine after being on it for a time.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the success continues!

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Mr_Nestle on Jul 2^nd, 2003, 9:45pm

I have an appointment tomorrow night with the therapist, so I'll ask her. I know that she is also a nurse and a physiotherapist (which is helpful, as she gives me a receipt for the $40/hr treatment, and I can claim it through my benefits).

I'll get back to you with what I learn.

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by Mr_Nestle on Jul 8^th, 2003, 5:25pm

To get information about cranio sacral therapy, she suggested contacting your local board/college of physiotherapy, or massage.

In Victoria, there is a sports clinic that does it as well, so maybe try that area.

Good luck. I know, for us, it was well worth it.

Mr Nestle

Title: Re: cranio sacral therapy
Post by NewHeadPLZ on Jul 10^th, 2003, 1:10pm

Yikes lucky Mr nestle didn't run away and not come back. This cranio thing could help some ppl out, and if he doesn't have to pay someone to have it done al the time, let him go for it. Luckily for him and the Mrs they found something she can help him with. A lot of spouses feel helpless cause they can't do anything. My "spouse" does. Best thing she can do is leave me alone.

Just because it's a non-medicated way of treating, or aborting a h/a doesn't mean it won't work. I've got several things I can do that abort an attack at times, and the next time not. Some of these I got from posts on this site! Others I discovered on my own.

Not everyone can afford the high costs of medications and wish they could. That's why they come here and try and find something that may help them.

I didn't see Mr Nestle say send me $1.00 and I'll tell ya how it works!