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Title: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 18th, 2003, 10:59am I guess since Flash’s thread is up about a shroom disaster, this is good time to post about a halfway decent success story with shrooms. I dosed Monday night. I don’t know whether I was more scared about dong them, or more scared that they wouldn’t help, but I was scared shitless. I was just at a point where I didn’t care. Considering the fact that I had never done anything remotely like that in my life; my concerns were great. The thought of not being in control of my mind (no smart ass remarks here… :-/), scared me almost to the point of forgetting the whole thing. But, with the support of some great people here, I managed to work my nerve up. The hardest part was going without imitrex for the 36 hrs. preceding the ingestion. Dramamine helped with that part. The effect I experienced were, as pinky explained to me, a textbook case of a Level 1 experience. I can’t say I enjoyed the time, but it wasn’t scary or bad. After the first 2 hrs., I just slept. Or, as my husband put it, I was a boring date. I had read that there could be a hangover period the next day, but I didn’t notice that too much. I did notice that I never got hit…..that definitely caught my attention. The next night, I woke up as scheduled, an hour and half after going to sleep, and lay there in bed wondering why I was awake. My REM visit always comes at that time, but it was not there! I just rolled over and went back to sleep with a smile on my face. On Wed. evening, I had a pretty good shadow, it was strong enough to start worrying about, but it went away by itself in about 15 minutes. The only way to describe it is that you could feel the ch trying to break through, but something was stopping it. Thursday was PF. My family was in shock….they, and I, couldn’t remember a time when I had gone that long without being hit. Last night, 1 ½ hrs. after going to sleep, the beast returned. It wasn’t the usual straight up out of bed screaming hit, but it became bad enough for a shot of imitrex. Three totally PF days, and just one hit last night isn’t too shabby. Today there is no shadow, no sense of dread. My husband actually told me I seemed like my old self to him (old being the operative word!...... ;D) I am keeping careful records of every twinge and shadow…..maybe if I read it on paper, I’ll actually believe the unbelievable results. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by BruceD on Apr 18th, 2003, 11:49am Rox, I'm so happy to hear that you're getting some relief. I have been wondering since Monday on HSG how you've been doing. Good fer you ... and I'll withhold my "control of my mind" comments for a later date. ;D Take care BruceD |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by eyes_afire on Apr 18th, 2003, 4:27pm Cool Rox. That's how it was for me, CH feeling like it was trying to break thru but couldn't. Hopefully you get rid of the 'chronic' cycle or at least turn the CH silent like what happened to me. It's always good to have someone there, no need to be scared in that case. good luck. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Jarvis on Apr 18th, 2003, 8:21pm Awesome!! Just the idea of getting a break. I Hope it lasts Roxy. ...........mj..... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Apr 18th, 2003, 10:17pm ohhhh rox...3 days relatively pf...what a gift, hope it lasts!!! Same with me...ch tried to break through, but just couldn't! Way cool, Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by eileen on Apr 19th, 2003, 6:03pm Aren't you suppost to do the shrooms again for like 4 days to break a cycle?????? Eileen |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Apr 20th, 2003, 12:17am Eileen, Everything you ever wanted to know about shroom therapy: http://cobracreations.tripod.com/ClusterBusters/faq.html Roxy doesn't have a "cycle", she is chronic...so basically she is throwing her headaches off balance and trying to get some painfree time. She is dosing again, you have to wait at least 5 days in between doses. Wishing you luck again Rox, Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 20th, 2003, 12:24pm A quick update: I dosed again last night, and again it knocked me out cold. Slept through the whole experience. Stayed up the rest of the night, but when I finally went to bed around 4am, my usual REM headache woke me up. It wasn't the same asskicking ch that I usually get, but was bad all the same. 02 killed it, but it returned again and again. Every time I would fall back asleep, within a half hour, it would be back. It came back four times. I don't know if this is normal or not. I have been told that sometimes you can get hit hard the first 24 hrs. after dosing. I'm just wondering why it didn't do this the first time I dosed. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by kissmyglass on Apr 20th, 2003, 1:54pm My thoughts on this are stop the shrooms. As nice as it is to be pain free, shrooms are dangerous. Just please Be careful Kev |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by arby on Apr 20th, 2003, 5:49pm Roxy, Great that you are getting some relief!! Remember it is OK to take your oar out of the water long enough to hit the beast on his head. Caution is a good word. Send some of your pain North - I'll take some for you!! arby |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Apr 21st, 2003, 12:30am on 04/20/03 at 13:54:40, kissmyglass wrote:
Kev, Can you please qoute some "studies" that prove shrooms are dangerous? Something that says they are more dangerous than "any" prescription medication regularly used to treat clusters would be nice. Roxy, The first 24 hours following the first 8-12 hours of relief after injesting shrooms, are "usually" a little worse as far as the number of attacks...for me. Each subsequent dose then lengthens that PF time following the 24 hour "hangover" period. (once again, in my case) BobW |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 21st, 2003, 1:59am on 04/21/03 at 00:30:12, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Thanks Bob, for those words. I'm hoping they prove true in my case. Today has not been pleasant, to say the least. And now, I'm awake just out of sheer terror of falling asleep. I know it takes time to break the cycle, especially in a chronic. Guess I'm just a tad bit impatient... :) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by kissmyglass on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:14am Bob, I'm not an expert. This is what I have "studied" first hand, with my own eyes...20 something years ago when we were teens we partied, had fun blah, blah, blah. My firend Bruce's drug of choice was shrooms. He was a very healthy ,center for the football team typical young man. One day something happened in his brain & he never came back from his "trip" NEVER. He is now 40 ish & locked up in a psyche unit where he has been for the last 20 years. I'll never forget the time he came banging on my door @3:00 A.M. (one of many)with sheer terror on his face screaming "The fluffers & the nippers are after me". He has been a total basket case for the last 20 years. Will this happen to everyone? No. But if there is a one in a million, even one in a billion chance that it can happen to my friend Roxy then I don't like the odds. So stop giving her lame advice on something that is illegal. I don't want her to be Bruces new roomie. You stay comfortably numb pal.... Kev |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:30am on 04/21/03 at 10:14:35, kissmyglass wrote:
Kev: The reaction of your friend is probably a VERY rare case. As a kid, I did them regularly (and LOTS :o :o :o because they were damn-near free! :D ), as did a lot of friends of mine. I have never heard of anyone losing their mind, due to shrooms ::) . (Other drugs, yes, I know of a few BUT in each case it was a bad case of abuse.) I'm sure everyone here understands your concerns, but in small amounts they are relatively harmless. grant 8) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:39am Kev, I'm sorry you had to go through that experience... But...Pinkfloyd is not giving rox lame advice...he's quite the guru on this subject. Please go look at the FAQ on fungus therapy. We take such a MINUTE amount...nothing near recreational. No overdosing. You are both trying to help Rox and care for her, pink giving his advise, you giving yours. But ya know, Imitrex could make her have a heart attack and die too...so we all weigh our pros and cons on our therapy choices. http://cobracreations.tripod.com/ClusterBusters/faq.html Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by kissmyglass on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:42am I realize it's a rare case but like I said one in a billion is odds I don't like, seeing what I've seen. You shroomers, who probably know a lot more about them than I do, use in every post words like "in my case" & "usually" & "relatively harmless". The brain is a fragile thing, you just don't know. I want Roxy pain free as much or more than anyone just want her to use extreme caution... Kev |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:52am absolutely totally agree Kev, Think we all should do ANY cluster therapy with extreme caution! Oh, btw, glad you got hooked up with Jonny and got your O2 :) Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 21st, 2003, 10:52am I said when I was a kid I did LOTS of them (I've never done them for CH, and haven't done them recreationally in more than 10 yrs). Compared to the miniscule amounts that people are using here, I probably did enough to get a RHINO high, with NO side effects whatsoever. I understand your concern (even though I think it is unfounded). Did you ever think there was something else that may have affected/effected your friend? grant |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 21st, 2003, 11:33am on 04/21/03 at 10:52:11, Mastifflvr28 wrote:
I totally agree. This was a decision I made after months of research, studying and hours of hard thinking. I thought about alternative methods every night I had to use the trex 5-9 times, and could feel my chest tighten up; then waking up and having to use the trex 3-4 times the next day. I understand and really appreciate Kev's concern. If I had had that happen to a friend of mine, I'm sure my decision would probably have been different. I just felt I had reached a point where everything I tried was a risk in some way. I have a problem with any type of drug, be it a naturally grown one, or a prescribed one. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. I do know that the shrooms have made a difference in my head. I didn't think so yesterday when I was getting hammered, but the REM hit skipped me last night, and today the shadows are gone. I knew that there was a chance I could get hit hard on the day following the dosing. But, today.....the shadows are gone, and I've been almost 12 hrs. without a hit. PFDAN, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Apr 21st, 2003, 3:23pm on 04/21/03 at 10:14:35, kissmyglass wrote:
Very cute, that PF quote Kev. I again ask for ONE study showing dangers of psilocybin and permanent damage it has caused to the millions of people that have used it, many times in huge amounts. Just one study will do Kev. There are plenty of "disclaimers" used by everyone that they shouldn't be used by people that are suffering from "pre-existing" mental conditions. I (and you) have no idea what other problems your friend may have been suffering from before injesting psilocybin....if thats even what he used to *trip* on that day. There are MANY hallucinogens available to the people that want to trip for the fun of it, as in your friends case. I can guaran-damn-tee you that more people have been permanently harmed by the medicinal use of oxygen than the medicinal use of psilicybin. So I'd be very careful about what *you* prescribe for your friends. Example......Someone here just did 6 times his normal dose of psilocybin and had a very bad experience... What type of experience do you think he would have had, had he done 6 shots of Imitrex by mistake? How about 6 times the normal dosage of Topamax or lithium or Depakote? Believe me, I can understand your (and everyone's) apprehension with the use of psilocybin....based upon a personal experience or the years of propoganda, or just the fear of an unknown. It took me a long time before *I* tried it. It helps everyone to be cautious and it helps to hear stories like yours just so that everyone takes a good hard look at not only the treatment but also at themselves prior to trying this. All I can say is that there is plenty of evidence that EVERY prescription cluster medication comes with, proven dangers...including death. After 40 plus years of our government telling us how dangerous psilocybin and its relatives are, there is NO proof. The proof that it is an effective AND safe treatment for clusters is building. Prove to me that psilocybin mushrooms are more dangerous that NONI juice and I'll continue the discussion. Pinkfloyd "On the turing away" |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by catlind on Apr 22nd, 2003, 8:24am Ok, I gotta admit to my confusion. I used to do shrooms as my trip of choice when I was younger. Everyone talks about ch doses being less than recreational doses. Either we had some seriously potent shrooms, or my brain is rather susceptible to psylocin. A gram each as a teen with my friend would be more than enough to have lots of grins and giggles and major philosophical break throughs. (not to mention great coding on the puter) Can someone shed some light on why my recreational doses of younger years would be so much stronger than what folks talk about now as a miniscule amount? Just curious :) Cat |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Apr 22nd, 2003, 9:06am Cat? Was that one gram fresh or dried? The USUAL weight talk around here is about Cubensis dried. I'm not sure of the other species and thier potentcy. Dang...Pinky, I can't find the conversion chart for "fresh" vs "dried" weight...do you know where it is? (It's been a long time, lol) Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 22nd, 2003, 9:57am on 04/22/03 at 08:24:22, catlind wrote:
on 04/22/03 at 09:06:15, Mastifflvr28 wrote:
This brings up a very interesting question. Does anyone know the relative potency of Cubensis as compared to 'Liberty Caps' or 'Blue Bells' (that grow wild on the west coast)? grant |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by catlind on Apr 22nd, 2003, 10:35am Mast, that was dried weight in tea. Cat |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Bob P on Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:13am On Kev's behalf, info on shroom toxicity: http://www.pahlow.net/temp/shroom_toxicity.htm |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by tommyD on Apr 22nd, 2003, 11:46am Psilocybin and LSD must be taken seriously. They are potent drugs. Dangerous drugs? Sure, but dangerous compared to what? You want dangerous, try prednisone. Or for that matter, acetominophen. Just this morning read an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on the hazards of over-the-counter painkillers. Last year in the US, 16,000 people died due to complications related to over-the-counter pain medications. http://www.post-gazette.com/healthscience/20030422hpainpills1.asp I don't know that there has ever been a substantiated case of anyone dying directly from an overdose of psiocybin or LSD. Ever. But I certainly understand yopur concern, Kev. I had a friend permanently damaged psychologically by the continued use of LSD. But this wasn't an overdose situation...it had to do with a pre-existing mental condition exacerbated by many doses of LSD. Now, thirty years later, he lives in a group home...though it is unclear whether it was the LSD or the electroshock therapy given him as "treatment" that caused the lasting damage. As for prednisone, it nearly killed my mother. And this was (of course) prescribed by a doc and taken according to directions. As for acetominophen, it nearly caused significant liver damage for my wife. She was very lucky, says the doc, and she took less than twice the recommended dosage. Once read of a young woman who died from drinking too much water. She apparently became obsessed with drinking water, and was up to several gallons a day. I nearly died once by getting drunk and going swimming. Aint' life a bitch? -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Bob P on Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:07pm Here's probably the only one Tommy: A six year old girl ate mushrooms, identified later as P. baeocystis, growing near a conifer stand near her home in Kelso, Washington. She was found by her parents in an ataxic and incoherent state. She was admitted to a local hospital in a convulsive state, with fixed, dilated pupils and warm skin. Her temperature was 106 degrees. She died three days later after developing pulmonary edema. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:26pm on 04/22/03 at 12:07:53, Bob P wrote:
3 questions: 1) What was her body weight? 2) What quantity of mushrooms were ingested? 3) How toxic/potent are P. baeocystis? I realize you probably don't have these numbers, but you can see where I'm going with this. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:49pm Thanks for the link BobP. A couple of lines JUMPED OUT at me: << Psilocybin has an LD 50 of 280mg/kg. In comparison, the LD 50’s of LSD, THC (the active compound in marijuana), and mescaline are 30mg/kg, 42mg/kg, and 370 mg/kg. Thus, when death is considered as the toxic endpoint, psilocybin is one of the least toxic of the hallucinogens. Also, the potential for dependence (physical addiction) of psilocybin and hallucinogens in general is minimal to non-existent, which also tends to support the contention of the relative safety of psilocybin in comparison to other narcotics. >> P.S. They didn't literally JUMP OUT at me. No shrooms here... I'm at work! ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Bob P on Apr 22nd, 2003, 1:08pm I knew someone would ask those types of questions re the dead girl. I was going to just point toward the very thing you picked up on in the post above. Shrooms are a lot less toxic than LSD and a little more than weed. I'm not gonna claim they are the product of the devil and will make a heroin addict out of you because that just isn't so. They really aren't very dangerous. Everyone needs to make their own decisions and I wish them luck and success. Shrooms are a 5-HT agonist. Much the same as Imitrex and other CH treatments are. If and why they would last longer is something I haven't seen yet. In my mind shrooms are to cluster treatment what the hypo is to cluster cause. We know it is but not why. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 22nd, 2003, 2:24pm Might as well add my 2p worth. Although my post was entitled "Disaster with Shrooms" - or something, the word "Disaster" referred to the resulting anxiety attack. The actual effect on my episode has been extremely beneficial (as usual). Sorry about repeating my other post, but just for clarity: I have a 16 year history of CH. I typically experienced a 1 month episode every 6 months. Usually I would experience 6 attacks each day average duration 1 hour, intensity varying between #6 and #8. The peak would usually arrive in week 3 and last 3-4 days. During peak the headaches would ramp up to 3 hour duration and intensity #10. This 18 hours #10 each day. The tail off would take around a week. I have used hallucinogenic treatments for a decade now. In that time I should have experienced 20 episode but instead I have only had 4 (including this one). Of those 4, 2 were the result of not having any shrooms available. The last time in late 2000 was due to dosing too little too late - however the episode only last 1 week (with some outlying shadows) the downside was that it was the peak week :( This time the shrooms sucessfully aborted the eipsode some weeks ago, but sleep disruption due to a long running virus caused them to return. had the virus come in a months time I doubt if the CH would have come back. The 2 events were just too close together. I (over)dosed again last Thursday, since then I have only experienced 2 headaches of any note, although in both cases the aftershocks continued for some hours later. Of those 2 headaches only 1 was unbearable sore. I imagine that I am having a rerun of late 2000 and experiencing a diminshed peak. I can tell this from the aftershocks and background migraine that varies between shadow level and #4. BobP - thanks for posting the link on toxicity. Toxicity data always makes scary reading, but compare the psilocybin data to imitrex, methysergide, ergotamine, predisone, verapamill, paracetomal, aspirin, and even O2 and it quickly becomes apparent that psilocybin is up there with O2 as the safest options. The cases of people suffering mental illness subsequent to ingesting hallucinogens are only slightly elevated from the population at large. There is some debate however as to whether ingesting a hallucinogen brings about the mental illness sooner than it might otherwise have appeared. Incidentally I have a minor history of mental illness in my teenage years having suffered a breakdown (that I sensibly chose not to seek treatment for, but instead let it run its course). In total I was ill to varying degrees between tha ages of 18 and 21, with 1 breakdown period that lasted several days and included paranoid hallucinations (being chased by the KKK although I am white and live in Scotland)! My first experience of hallucinogenic drugs was at age 23 with a full on LSD trip reaching level 3. The fact that Roxy mentions becoming dreamy and going to sleep indicates that her trip level is acutally sub level 1. That is exactly the level that I normally achieve. It does not increase the pulse rate and my pupils do not fully dilate. Done once between episodes this type of usage will prevent the next episode and in my case provide a minimum of 6 months protection. In the case of a chronic like Roxy I imagine several such doses will be required to break the cycle. Roxy - if you have read this far, then you can expect to eventually go PF between each weekly dose, therefore avoiding the next day high intensity headaches. At that point slowly lengthen the gape between doses and ultimately you should become episodic. This is based on the experience of many others that have gone before (and often never come back to the board). I guess there is a chance that they are all banged up in assylums but personally I doubt it :) What may help you further Roxy is to implement my PLAN B. This is the backup plan that I use when the shrooms are working, but not achieving a 100% success. I'll post PLAN B seperately since it may also help those not using shrooms. Good Luck Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 22nd, 2003, 2:56pm on 04/22/03 at 14:24:18, Flash wrote:
:'( :'( :'( Only enough for one more dose. on 04/22/03 at 14:24:18, Flash wrote:
Flash, those are words to warm my heart. on 04/22/03 at 14:24:18, Flash wrote:
Anxiously awaiting. ;D Thanks for the info Flash, I'm sorry you had to go through what you did, but I am so glad it's helping you this cycle. Since getting hit so hard the other day, I have had two really bad shadows, usually starting around 11pm and building in intensity till about 1am. They have been bad enough that I have found myself reaching for the trex. I have held off both times, and when I reached the moaning and trying to push my eye in stage......they have just gone away. Evaporated.....disappeared..... ;D ;D ;D ;D I have never experienced anything like it. Have not been hit the last two nights at all. I am a very happy little girl right now!! Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by kissmyglass on Apr 22nd, 2003, 4:20pm I'm not going to debate weather shrooms are dangerous or not or anything else about them. I just wanted Tracey to use caution. I know she is smart & will do what she has to do. I'm extremely happy that they are working well for you Rox!! 2 pain free nights? wow! becoming eposodic? Woohoo..wouldn't that be great? I would never complain again if I became eposodic..... Kev |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 22nd, 2003, 4:31pm on 04/22/03 at 16:20:21, kissmyglass wrote:
I agree 100%, Kev. PFDAN, grant 8) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 22nd, 2003, 9:12pm on 04/22/03 at 08:24:22, catlind wrote:
Presuming the mushrooms you were consuming back then were not laced with LSD (which was much more common years ago than it is today), the most likely explanation is that the mushrooms you obtained were one of the more potent species, such as Psilocybe azurescens, sometimes called "flying saucers", or Psilocybe cyanescens, commonly called "wavy caps". It is not unusual for P. azurescens to be twice as potent by weight as Psilocybe cubensis, which is the standard species used by clusterheads who grow their own. To complicate matters further, within any given species (especially wild-gathered specimens) there can be a substantial variation in potency. Factors that can alter the amount of psilocybin by weight include what kind of soil they were grown in, whether they were grown in sunlight or in shade, the temperature and humidity at the time of maturation, whether or not they were fully mature when picked, how carefully they were dried, how long they remained in a dry state before being consumed, and probably a whole lot more factors I have either forgotten or have yet to read about. As well, individual reactions to psilocybin vary. So, it may be possible that you and your friend were more susceptible to psilocybin than average, and also had the good fortune to have scored exceptionally potent mushrooms. Further, people's idea of what constitutes a "recreational dose" varies considerably. The giggles and philosophical breakthroughs can occur at the Level 1 to Level 2 stage on the "psychedelic scale", while a Woodstock-era Grateful Dead fan wouldn't consider he was getting his money's worth on anything less than a solid Level 3.5 to Level 4 experience. Finally, it is possible that what you thought was a gram was really 1.25 grams or so. Unless the doses are weighed out with fairly accurate scales, it is very easy to be off by a couple tenths of a gram. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 22nd, 2003, 9:42pm on 04/22/03 at 12:07:53, Bob P wrote:
Please note that I am not poo-pooing this story, but I am almost certain I have come across this one before, and other articles I have read have stated that there were more than one species found in her stomach. It is also known that Psilocybe baeocystis is often found growing in the company of poisonous "lookalikes" -- sometimes the poisonous specimens are literally intermingled with the P. baeocystis specimens. If I recall correctly (couldn't swear to it without checking further), this species is Galerina autmnalis and they are warned about and described in detail in various "shroom-pickers" guides. The symptoms described are certainly not consistent with those produced by even extremely high doses of psilocybin and or psilocin. Note that I do not categorically deny that the only mushrooms the girl ingested were P. baeocystis -- I merely point out that there are other reasonable culprits that may have been responsible for her death. Assuming for the sake of argument that they were in fact the direct cause of her death, this is yet another reason in favor of utilizing good old boring home-cultivated P. cubensis over more exotic wild-gathered specimens. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 22nd, 2003, 9:57pm on 04/22/03 at 09:57:40, brain_cramps wrote:
Very difficult to say for sure. Accepted wisdom used to be that gram per gram, wild-gathered Liberty Caps (Psilocybe semilanceata) were more potent than wild-gathered Psilocybe cubensis, but even then there were vehement disagreements on the matter. The problem is that there are so many factors which may affect the potency of wild-gathered mushrooms that it is possible that both sides were correct, depending on which batch of mushrooms gathered where at what time of year one was comparing. Since the advent of home cultivation about twenty-five years ago, some P. cubensis strains have been raised for hundreds of generations under ideal conditions and selected by growers for their potency, and nowadays it is generally accepted that the best varieties of cultivated P. cubensis are at least as potent and probably more potent than the average wild-gathered P. semilanceata. It should be noted that Liberty Caps are extremely difficult to cultivate even outdoors, and cannot be cultivated indoors at all -- at least not yet. When I say it is generally accepted that the two are now equivalent, I mean just that. There are still afficianados of Liberty Caps who insist they are more potent than P. cubensis. I suspect there always will be. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 23rd, 2003, 9:48am on 04/22/03 at 21:42:22, pinksharkmark wrote:
This is one of the main reasons that I feel safe trying this method. If I had to actually go out and pick the specimens, it would be a different story. Thanks for the info pinky. Tracey BTW: Three nights PF and counting....... ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by brain_cramps on Apr 23rd, 2003, 9:52am on 04/23/03 at 09:48:10, Roxy wrote:
COOL!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by firebrix on Apr 23rd, 2003, 2:38pm "BTW: Three nights PF and counting....... " O Roxy! This is good news! So pleased for you! firebrix |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 23rd, 2003, 3:59pm pf all today so far - it's after 10pm now. Some slight shadows but nothing more. This is the wimpiest episode ever (no doubt thanks to shrooms). Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mark C on Apr 23rd, 2003, 5:09pm Used to do MASS quantities of LSD and Shrooms. I have had a CH on LSD.....very bad scene. The worst thing that ever happend to me on shrooms (besides running out) was I did jump in the swimming pool neekid once wearing headphones! Circa 1977. Rock on Rox! |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 24th, 2003, 11:39am on 04/23/03 at 17:09:47, Mark C wrote:
Darn Mark.....you only post good things you used to do!! Still going on PF here, 4 days and nights now. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by BruceD on Apr 24th, 2003, 11:59am Rox, that rocks. You must now be experiencing something that people call sleeeep. Very cool! ;D Take care BruceD |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by das on Apr 24th, 2003, 4:04pm I will apologize in advance since I did not read all the posts from top down. Not cuz I didn't want to but because I feel so strongly about this issue. First of all.. I am with Brain Cramps.. I think people can handle ridiculous amounts of hallucinogenics. You can't physically overdose on the stuff unless you have a pre-existing or unknown condition that could cause more serious effects in combo with the drugs. I know of people that have taken more shrooms/LSD than anyone could ever conceive in one sitting and they did it again and again.... I can't believe for myself that they are still cognicent beings, but they are. One important thing the consider as well is the potency and/or the strain of mushrooms you take. I really don't know anything about the different strains that exist. Where I live it seems we've always gotten about the same potency give or take. I did however experience mushrooms in Germany once and they were at least 10 times more powerful than the ones I took at home. We did, however, ingest a lot of them.. :) Shrooms luckily work for me (for now).. but take one more thing into consideration. What is there that we can say about CHs in general? .. Not much, that's what. There are some similarities, and at the same time everyone's symptoms, treatments, successes and failures seem to be individually different. Call me me crazy. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 25th, 2003, 10:54am on 04/24/03 at 11:59:16, BruceD wrote:
That's the truth Bruce. My bed and I are becoming intimately acquainted again....it's lovely. 5 nights PF, no twinges or shadows during the days either. I'm walking around with a permanent smile on my face. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by JDH on Apr 25th, 2003, 10:59am Here's to hoping that smile stays on your face for a long time Roxy! ;D Glad you're getting some much needed relief...and sleep. pfdan's Jim |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 25th, 2003, 1:48pm Hit last 2 nights in a row. Frist night took care of it with PLAN B - no problem. Last night it was out for blood, aborted first 2 but next one came on very fast and very powerful, then entered hell of 3 x 3 hour #10 headaches with only 10-15 mins in between them. Feel like shit today. See my main post on "Just how bad can it get". Feel to ill to do any shrooms at the moment, but may try over the weekend if things calm down. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 25th, 2003, 1:59pm Flash, I'm glad your Plan B took care of the first night. I'm sorry you're getting hit so hard. Here's to you feeling better, and being able to dose by this weekend. Hoping for PFDAN for you, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by arby on Apr 25th, 2003, 11:51pm Roxy Hope you have the beast knocked down for a while. HAPPY for you. :D :D :D arby |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 26th, 2003, 8:35pm I have a question for those who have been down this treatment road before. Last night my REM hit came, right on schedule. It was a 10, and ripped me out of bed like a bad nightmare. But, after that hit, everything has been great today. No shadows, no twinges....nothing. Is this normal? If it is normal....that's great. I'll take the one hit every night, and I'll take it with a smile. As long as I feel this good the rest of the time. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by eyes_afire on Apr 26th, 2003, 9:58pm Tracey, Its hard to say what's normal with this treatment. Once I had reached the fifth day after dosing, I was at increased risk of getting CH attack, and by the 7th day I would have suffered a few attacks. Even before the fifth day I would sometimes get a stray CH or two. So it was normal for me to get a breakthru CH attack a few times between doses. I still shadowed like normal. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by cathy on Apr 27th, 2003, 1:10pm Hi Roxy....that's taken me ages to read all the posts...Im pleased you've had some good results with these. I think you've been given some good advice and that you are intelligent enough to do what is right for you. I hope you continue to have relief from your pain. Good luck. Cathy :) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Apr 30th, 2003, 11:52am Thanks everyone, for your good wishes. I have done the third dose now, and so far everything is great. It seems to still be working like a charm, my head feels like it used to.....totally PF. I just can't believe a treatment this simple and easy has made such a difference in my life. I know there is no research that will tell us how long the effects will last.....but, I'll take whatever I can get. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by paragate on May 22nd, 2003, 5:37pm Propoganda and misinformation are huge reasons why the WOSD is taking such a heavy toll, from people refused access to medicinal mj, to people suffering from PTSD who don't have access to MDMA therapy, to people suffering from depression that just might be alleviated with proper dosage of a standardized form of psilocin. Add to that CH sufferers. I've been around the scene for over three decades. I know many of the researchers doing serious research, and many of the folks working underground on their own research. The only severe problems I know of involving psilocybin/psilocin are either: (a) people with an underlying disorder such as bipolar or schizoaffective disease, who have no business messing with their seratonin systems, or (b) people who ate either something other than psilocybin that a friend "found" somewhere, or who ate batches that had been contaminated -- which is *extremely* rare since by the time you have carpaphores growing, the mycelium pretty much inhibits all potential contaminants from taking root. And the only ones I know of who suffered long-term damage such as that described above were people whose wiring was out of whack to begin with -- bipolar, schizo, etc. In many cases, these diseases don't even manifest until late teens, twenties, even later. But they are there, latent and lurking. And causing a massive seratonin cascade can be exactly the kind of thing to kindle a lifelong severe disorder. As with anything else, be informed, be careful and know exactly what you're doing. And above all else, know thyself. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on May 23rd, 2003, 4:12am For those that haven't read the other thread... To expand on a point made by paragate I suggest we all approach our GPs for a prescription of antipsychotics. Antipsychotics terminate a shrooms trip, and may be used anytime that a trip gets out of hand. Having that option available is far more likely to induce a good trip since there is less to worry about. Having antipsychotics prescribed will also help the shrooms gain more widespread acceptance. The GPs cannot prescribe shrooms, but they can write out this prescription in support of treatment with shrooms. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Frank on May 24th, 2003, 11:23am Watch this next time you do shrooms... http://home.attbi.com/~bernhard36/honda-ad.html :o |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by paragate on May 26th, 2003, 11:14am I was all set yesterday to do a small dose of DPT to see if that would work the same as LSD or psilocybin to help stop this new cycle, when lo and behold a friend came through for me with a piece of chocolate containing psilocybin extract. This is how it is going around the US now, and for $20 I decided what they hey, I'll give it a try. My friend told me that his friend said it was 2 doses within the piece of chocolate, about as much psilocybin as 3 grams of cubies, but stronger because it is extracted and concentrated. So I took 1/8 of the chocolate, not really wanting to get shroomed out, just to relieve my headaches. Within less than 30 minutes I was feeling a mild but definite tryptamine alert with a distinct psilocin signature. Never got very high, but felt quite pleasant, a smile on my face at first, and a mild energy buzz. And the shadow disappeared! And hasn't come back yet. No HA last night or this morning. Whether it "holds" only time will tell. I do, because this is within a cycle, intend to repeat, at that dosage, at least once more, probably 3-4 days from now (4-5 days from first administration of the medication). Then I'll just monitor carefully, ready to repeat again, perhaps even up the dosage slightly, if I feel the need (i.e., if I get any HAs, if the shadows are too strong or constant). In a way, I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to experiment with the DPT, which is still reasonably available, and easier for newbies to deal with than stronger psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin. But when given the chance, I wanted to try what most people around here have tried. Getting out of cycle is more important to me than using myself as a guinea pig at this point. I have been on verapamil, but only since last Thursday so it is definitely too soon for my brain to be responding to that. Only other factors: 9 mgs of melatonin each night, and 15 mgs of Remeron, a "tetracyclic antidepressant," with seratonergic activity, that I take every night. I am also sure that this combination does work, somewhat -- this cycle has, compared to previous ones, been rather mild -- HA's spread further apart, don't last quite as long, shadows somewhat more tolerable, don't have the constant grizzly bear like irritability. But I am also quite certain that the psilocybin did something very positive. I'm so thankful for this space. But for what I read here on this message board, and especially Flash's frankness in sharing how he's been dealing for the past decade or so, I'm not sure I would have made the calls, begging to people for help, that led to this one little piece of chocolate. I'll continue to post over the next week as I monitor my symptoms and do the repeat. I also strongly urge people trying low-dose psilocybin to add melatonin to the mix. There have been anecdotal reports for a number of years about how doing melatonin for at least 4-5 consecutive nights before doing a seratonergic agent can mildly "potentiate" that agent. I think the melatonin works on the margins in the case of CH's: didn't, with me, prevent the cycle, but did make it somewhat milder, and probably enabled me to respond more positively to what was clearly an extremely low dose of shrooms (I would guestimate equivalent to around 1/2 gram of an average race of average cubensis strain). |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by middlecook on May 26th, 2003, 5:19pm Hi, My spouse has had cluster headaches, migraines, whatever they are since giving birth to our first son. Since then they at times have been bad (i.e. an Imitrex shot does not touch it), but lately they have become unmanageable with my wife passing out, having the left side of her body go entirely numb, and chest pain. She has been in and out of the hospital over the last three weeks and when she is at home, she has not been able to be left alone due to passing out from the pain. The doctors have done MRI's MRA's Cat-Scan, EKG's, EEG's just to name a few of the test. We started going to a new neurologist last week who prescribed, senate??, but the medicine has been discontinued. We are desperate and do not know where to turn except for God. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on May 26th, 2003, 5:42pm middlecook, I'm afraid your post will get lost down in this thread, so I'm going to repost it to the general section. I hope you don't mind, but you will get a much better response. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on Jun 1st, 2003, 7:01am Hello all, Thought I should add my 2c to this. I personally have had GREAT success with this treatment. Nothing has ever given my such relief. Although my first attempt was my last cycle, they did not abort them BUT I went from a normal 6 to 8 clusters per day (kipp keeps rising throughout the day) to hit here and there with only major attacks once a week or so. I have to admit that prior to this treatment (have suffered for 15 years now) the thoughts of "ending it all" were becoming more an of an "option" with every cycle. I have tried the majority of prescriptions, experienced all of the side effects and had absolutly no success until shrooms. I agree they are not for everyone and caution is DEFINETLY in order here. I weighed the risks and compared to liver damage, heart attack, constant dizziness and my brush with death while taking an Imatrex shot (shot up, woke up in the hospital 6 hours later) the risks for a mentally stable person are worth it (my opinion). Having said that, I also knew someone growing up who went off the deep end. I grew up in florida so shrooms were wild and free. This person did go phsyco but he also ate them by the garage bag full. Anyone that out of touch with reality for months at a time will lose it. He was always a bit off kilter but I am sure a constant trip (heavy tripping) would snap the most sane / stable mind. The doses used in the treatment of CH are minor. Although I did hit a level 4 by accident, It all worked out. No depression, dementia or addiction. Hell, if I wanted that I would have continued with prescripts mixed with sleep depravation. Ok, I am done with my rant. jmin |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jun 1st, 2003, 9:43am Hi jmin, I sure do agree with what you wrote. The shrooms give more relief than any of the meds I've ever taken. They make me PF for a day or two after taking them, but basically they knock the ch's down to anywhere from 1 to 3 a day, which is very manageable. I accidently hit a level 4 earlier this week when I dosed. It's not something I enjoyed (my husband now refers to me as 'woodstock'), and it's not something I ever want to repeat.......but once it was over, everything was fine. I don't think the higher dose worked as well as the much lower doses do on the ch's. I'm glad you are finding the treatment worthwhile for your head.......and I'm glad it is giving you relief. PFDAN, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by paragate on Jun 1st, 2003, 5:21pm I tried a very low dose a week ago, about a week, week and a half into this cycle, and was HA free for six days. I had been meaning to do another low dose, but events got away from me and I paid the price. One of the worst HAs I can ever recall on Friday nite. Not just the usual stabbing pain, but a searing fire running up and down the left side of my brain. Sat afternoon, I took a low dose. Sat nite, another HA started to come on and I aborted it with Imitrex before it had a chance to turn into the full beast. I think my mistake was not repeating the initial treatment after four days or so. I'm going to repeat this time tomorrow or Tues, after work, and again next weekend. Hopefully, they can provide relief during this cycle if I can obtain enough to continue low dose therapy ever four or five days. I'd like to think they can disrupt the cycle, but from what everyone else here is saying, that's not something I should get too hopeful about. Rendering the cycle manageable, so I can function and maintain productivity at work, will be good enough for now. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 1st, 2003, 7:37pm on 06/01/03 at 17:21:09, paragate wrote:
Paragate, I'd seriously consider waiting until at least wednesday if at all possible. The more receptors have cleared of that Imitrex, the better off you'll be IMHO. Also consider stretching out the time between doses after you redose this next time, if possible. Don't panic (or be surprised) if you get a couple "shadows" a few days after the doses. They may fade away like an old pair of levi's before going full blown. If the attacks start building up steam again instead of growing weaker each day, "whack" 'em again. Good luck and please do keep us informed. P.Floyd |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by paragate on Jun 2nd, 2003, 6:02am Thanks for the tip. I'll wait an extra day or two, to give the receptors time to fully clear from the triptans. But I think my problem was waiting a full week between doses, since I'm in cycle. I probably should have done a repeat dose last Wed or Thurs (the first dose was the prior Sat). My goal here is to prevent as many HAs as possible. I think from what I've read that dosing every 5 days, and then slowly stretching that period out to six, seven, . . . I figure when I can get two weeks between and no HAs, my cycle will be at the end and I can move on to the prophylactic dosing cycle of once every few months. But I will follow your advice and wait another day or two rather than repeating again tonight. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 2nd, 2003, 11:39pm on 06/02/03 at 06:02:11, paragate wrote:
Good luck. I hope all goes well. I also think you may have waited a bit too long the last time. Also, I agree about trying to avoid as many full blown attacks as possible to allow your body to recover and become as strong as possible in helping you fight the clusters. Once they start coming, they seem to feed upon themselves. take care, PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by fungo on Jun 12th, 2003, 1:49am Over a month now, totally CH-free, thanks to shrooms! No prescription medication has done that for me, after about 20 years of attacks. (Ten of them undiagnosed, to be sure - or rather mis-diagnosed. Doctors!) It took just three doses. First 1g, then 2.5g, then 1g again. (I strongly suspect the 2.5g dose - a VERY trippy trip! - was unnecessary.) After each dose, I had a night of elevated CH attacks, then a reduction. After the third dose and subsequent resurgence, the attacks vanished. After a month pain-free, I can't begin to express how lucky I feel. As for the dangers? Physical: NONE. Zero. Nada. Believe me, I've read ALL the literature, over some 30 years of dabbling with psychedelics. There is ZERO credible evidence of physical harm - and you can bet that the medical establishment has been strenuously encouraged to find some! (There's the old tale of LSD breaking chromosomes, for example; well-known to be totally bogus.) Mental dangers? Sure. There are mental dangers in getting up in the morning. Yes, heavy "trips" will stress your psyche, and could be damaging to anyone in an unstable mental condition. Most people, however, have a huge capacity for recovery from "bad trips." I know of no long-term ill effects of an occasional "bad trip." In fact, most people find themselves feeling unaccountably reinvigorated, once the memory fades a bit. Personally, I believe that stuff was already in there, and better out than in. I'd rather deal with it than suppress it. But that's a personal choice. The point is, psychedelics do NOT "cause" mental illness. They can be a stress factor, and they should obviously be used with care, like any potent drug. In any case, it seems very clear that the dosage needed to combat CH is minimal, no more than about half that required to produce even a mild trip. In fact, it could be that even at the 1g/Level 1 dosage, we're taking too much. Real research would be nice! Speaking from both long experience and extensive study, I can say this without hesitation: used correctly, shrooms will have far, far fewer side effects than ANY of the prescription medications. (Side effects with Imitrex: heart attacks!! Give me a break!) Even with an "overdose" of shrooms, the worst you can expect is a few hours of mental pyrotechnics, with no physical problems at all. (There is no known "toxic" dose of psylocybin.) Longer-term effectiveness is the bigger question mark. But so far, the favorable reports for shrooms seem far more favorable than those for any other drug. For now, at least, I'm a happy camper. My biggest worry is how to ensure a supply of this miracle drug. Anybody know of Canadian sources of spores? I suspect that in these troubled times, no one will ship this sort of thing across a border... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jun 12th, 2003, 2:22am Also still PF. Think I can safely conclude that the treatment was successful. Again. Surfing the net, I am finding more and more references to this subject. While not exactly widespread several sites have picked up on it. I've lost count of how many people have tried using hallucinogenic drugs to combat CH. The list runs into dozens now. Many of them have never returned to the message board - I guess that's because they now have the means to combat their condition. The failures run into single figures. The usual reasons for failure are: 1) Not using the correct shrooms. 2) Not having a large enough supply of shrooms to complete the treatment. 3) Not detoxing for a 5 day period beforehand. 4) Not leaving sufficient time between doses. 5) Predisone. 6) Failure to complete the treatment. There do however appear to be some people that this simply doesn't work for. In those instances I believe it would be worth trying a different species of shroom, or another hallucinogenic drug such as LSD. I know that pinky doesn't agree that an alternative species of shroom will succeed, but until someone researches this in detail we'll never know. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jun 12th, 2003, 12:07pm Flash, I have a question. On the detoxing for 5 days, does this mean go off of everything? What I read on the other web sites was no imitrex for 24 hrs. before and after. It said that verapamil shouldn't make any difference. Do I need to stay off the trex longer, and go off the verap totally? Would this make a difference? I know part of why mine isn't working as well as it should is the supply part........ :-/ But, even with a low supply, I know it has helped tremendously. Tracey Really glad you're still PF..... :) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jun 16th, 2003, 8:00am I'd go 5 days without Imitrex, both before and after; Imitrex is a related drug. The Verapamil shouldn't make any difference. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jun 16th, 2003, 7:31pm I'm already off the verapamil...that was the easy one. Ten days without trex.....omg..... :'( :'( Is that open to negotiation at all? I was doing without it for 24 hrs., before and after.....and that was TOUGH!!! I REALLY, REALLY HATE THIS!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 16th, 2003, 9:52pm on 06/16/03 at 08:00:11, Flash wrote:
OK, I agree with the 5 days prior....but please explain the 5 days following? If the receptors are filled with psilocin for 5 days following treatment, the imitrex could only fill receptors that were passed over by the psilocin originally or refill any that had been abandoned as time progressed....no? What effect would this have on the actions of the psilocin. Sending mixed signals maybe? Look at it this way Rox....I think you will have much better results holding off 5 days, once before a treatment in comparison to 5, one day breaks before 5 treatments. Same amount of time away from the trex and possibly 5 times better results.... OTOH, I know how tough it is. Its much easier to type the suggestion than to actually do it oneself. good luck BobW |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jun 17th, 2003, 7:37am To use the old tube radio analogy. After giving it a slap, and getting it back on station, you want to leave it the fuck alone to settle down afterwards. After giving your hypothalmus a slap with shrooms, you want to get yourself back into a normal routine, and allow your systems some time to calm down. Imitrex is not calming. I suspect that many things such as disrupted sleep, alcohol, stress, imitrex, etc all ultimately irritate our systems making the CH worse. The shrooms shake the whole thing up, afterwards it needs some time to settle. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by CJohnson on Jun 17th, 2003, 10:04am Having no personal experience with shrooms, and having not studied the mechanism of psilocybin/psilocin I would like to express the following thoughts: 1. Could the action of the enzyme alkaline phosphatase, which metabolizes psilocybin into psilocin, be a factor in "resetting" the anomoly which causes the CH? What other phenomenon does this enzyme act upon? Does the body produce more of the enzyme to deal with the influx of psilocybin molecules, or does the number of enzymes remain constant, meaning there is less of the enzyme available to act on other phenomenon? 2. Is it the psilocin molecule in the 5ht receptor which is the primary prophylaxis, or is it the subsequent conservation of serotonin? 2a. WARNING: WILD SPECULATION If the hypothalamic anomoly is causing a slow but sure reduction in serotonin production, then the overall serotonin level becomes less and less until it reaches a point where it activates the trigeminal nerve and subsequently trigeminal afferent nociceptor activity. The introduction of psilocin molecules occupying 5ht receptors conserves the serotonin, thereby allowing overall serotonin levels to reach normal (pain free) levels. 3. Psilocin occupies 5HT-2, 5HT-1c, and 5HT-1a receptors, whereas sumatriptan occupies 5HT1a and 5HT1d receptors. The 5HT1d receptor is thought to be the key in aborting an attack. If there was a medicine which only bound to the 5HT1d receptor, then it wouldn't interfere with the action of the shrooms. Furthur, this seems to suggest that aborting an attack with sumatriptan while the psilocin is active, would not affect the prophylaxis of the shrooms. The sumatriptan would still terminate the attack via 5HT1d receptors. Would the sumatriptan dislodge the psilocin from the 5HT1a receptor? Would that even matter as it relates to CH? Just thinking out loud, please feel free to refute the above points with extreme prejudice and grim efficiency. PFDANs -Curtis |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by scotg. on Jun 17th, 2003, 10:57am Ok, I am about at the end of my cycle for this year, so I don't know if I am up to starting a treatment for it now. I am however willing to try to prevent the next cycle, or at least decrease the intensity. I would like some specific info on how, and when I should start. Any sujestions are welcome, either through here or email. Thanks a bunch Scot. ??? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jun 17th, 2003, 1:57pm Hello, my name is Dr. Karl Buchanan and I have been exploring psilocybe medicine since 1998. Recently I had learned from "pinksharkmark" on another forum that there was a great deal of interest and enthusiasm surrounding clusterhaeds and psilocybes, and another therapist reccomended I locate this site and see if I could offer you anything. ??? What I can offer you is that if I were you, you bet I would use them :D - but you already are. I have followed thier medical properties in other areas and was flabbergasted to hear about the CH success. Hallelujah for ya! There is specific content info and parmacology for those interested in the "designer" (imitrex?) end of things, but what I am most interested in is the methods and dosages you have found success with. Those of you familiar with the dramatic effects obtained by CH's with psybes can easily imagine what a miracle it would seem like to a rural person who never even used a computer, and besides other monks, they are the majority of people I see. I personally have no concerns with the safety of the sub-hallucinogenic dose in the typical adolescent and adult. I believe psilocin/psilocybin extracts should be made readily available OTC and should bear the same staus as any other life saving drug - have now pay later if need be. Any of you that can continue this thread and e-mail me with your experiences I would greatly appreciate. Anything you have to say is fine - tell me how you would treat a patient in your condition? Tell me how neat it's going to be when they pop up off the table and say "Eureka!" (is it really like that?) Some patients can really tear at your guts and you heads :'( - 1cc of ps/ps extract in 2 oz of hot water and out of hell in 10-15 minutes? - no one can blame any patient or doctor for running with that. When someone credible can show me an adult reason why not I may change my mind, but until then I'm keeping my brown bottle handy and waiting for your consultation...... 8) Glad to have found this list and hope to get some survey stats like the others for "shrooms". God bless and best wishes! karl buchanan (I teach health sciences and am building a treatment center in the Ozarks for my "bio"...I also distribute ps. spore samples for study to CH sufferers and other caregivers who don't have other means of acquiring the species.....) |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by eyes_afire on Jun 17th, 2003, 5:04pm http://www.geocities.com/ClusterBusters2002/ written by the ClusterBusters... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jun 18th, 2003, 11:50am on 06/16/03 at 21:52:52, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Thanks Bob. I know it's the same amount of time away from the trex, it just seems more of a horror story looking at five days in a row without trex, rather than just one day. I won't have to do this for a few more months (supply problems... :-/), but I'm already dreading it. I think this road is a long one for chronics. It's a good road to take, but it takes so much more treatment than it seems to for episodics. I'm still trying to rationalize the whole 5 days afterwards too. I'll get my mind around the concept somehow. Thanks guys, Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jun 18th, 2003, 12:53pm <<I know that pinky doesn't agree that an alternative species of shroom will succeed, but until someone researches this in detail we'll never know. >> I suggest that p. cyanescens has a substantial level of Atropine in it, and may exhibit different effects for the CH but am not a sufferer and do not personally know. I do support the theory that there are subtle differences and so do some others, but as you state, none of us really know enough yet - p. subtletatis is credited with polio prevention in rats, p. cubensis with strep in humans - but is it the mushroom or the researcher - we will one day have enough info to see better. It's not just psilocin/psilocybin and/or baeocystine content - polysaccharides and flavanoids are part of the whole thing too..... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Sweetestpea on Jun 18th, 2003, 8:01pm I'm very new here, and I do not know what this shroom thing is all about. I don't want to sound dumb, but could someone explain it to me? The only shrooms I know about, many moons ago,I'm sure they're not legal!! Thanks!!! Patti |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by tommyD on Jun 18th, 2003, 9:18pm Patti - Yes, the same shrooms you remember, and they are still illegal in most places. But they work very well for most folks. Read up on it at the Clusterbusters FAQ: http://home.attbi.com/~rwold350/ and the clusterbusters web site: http://www.geocities.com/ClusterBusters2002/ -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jun 18th, 2003, 9:32pm Yes, Patti, many moons have gone by.... People have been experiencing very satisfactory relief very quickly from sub-hallucinogenic doses of neurotropic fungi, at least some of the psilocybes. While there has been a lot of psychiatric study, there hasn't been much medical study and a lot of people from different disciplines are becoming interested. (Myself, Andrew Weil, Jim Friere, Stephen Peele, others..) I myself do not support pharmaceutical commercialization, I support individual rights - but no one would prevent legislation that would allow the relief of suffering. And to your concern - yes, apparently there are some folks who, head coming apart at the stitch seams, have forgotten to file for thier schedule 1 research permit - but as individual citizens caring for themselves it's quite different than say the "compassion clinics" where marijuana is distributed by someone to someone else openly. We are a little ways from that yet I think.... Does it surprise you that psilocybes have had this effect? Me too.... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by eyes_afire on Jun 18th, 2003, 10:38pm Don't worry Karl, the odds of pharmaceutical commercialization are extremely remote/non-existant. The pharmaceutical companies would have a hard time explaining to shareholders: "... and our newest drug patent can easily be grown by anyone in a pile of shit in their backyard..." Of course, if it did happen, it would be extremely expensive I'm sure. --- Steve, one of many... |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by CJohnson on Jun 19th, 2003, 6:47am on 06/18/03 at 21:32:43, drkarlb wrote:
What is a schedule 1 research permit? PFDANs -Curtis |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jun 19th, 2003, 7:52am <<What is a schedule 1 research permit?>> It is essentially an application/proposal made to the Government through the DEA wherein you declare what substances you will be using and how (in detail) and you receive a registry allowing you to work with that substance for research purposes under the declared conditions. You can do anything you have declared and been registered to do but that is all - The USP (U.S. Pharmacopaeiea) is classified on a schedule from 1-4 for our purposes here; Schedule 2 & 3 are stronger narcotics and heavily restricted drugs. Schedule 1 are drugs that are not currently listed as used medically in the U.S., but are all over the place such as Heroin, LSD, Ibogaine, Psilocybin - schedule one is potentially any drug known that we do not use in alleopathic (MD) medicine in the U.S. Oddly enough, this makes the traditionalist and the individual uniquely qualified; most of the substances they use are schedule 1, and all the rest are schedule 2-4 (where traditionalist medicine doesn't prescribe anyway..) The Downside is this: Go look up the ethics and part of what it takes to get human research permits. :P Do NOT jump out the window... ;D It literally takes a team of 3 or more people just to make sure you have covered all the things in the permits (and currently are every day..) for even the simplest things. You might call one of these human research shops like Quincy, and see if you can get someone to give you an idea - :o what a $$$,$$$.$$ nightmare. University's have the staff and power to accomplish, most individuals are very challenged.... I was truly only jesting with the quip - People here are NOT clinical researchers (please never utter such a word!) They are simply individuals confronted with truly unsufferable conditions which have discovered a native plant medicine in use for thousands of years and are practicing simple self care at home. They believe it is thier constitutional right (in the U.S.) to do this and to seek the care they choose, and I believe it is too. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by gtar_man on Jun 20th, 2003, 9:59am Hi, everyone. I know I haven't been around in awhile, shame on me, but you guys are still my clusterbrothers -and sisters. Last Sept I started shroom therapy after 15 months of hell (2nd cycle). At that time, I wasn't getting hit with the big KIPs, but had constant bad shadows and was depressed to the point of - well, you know. I guess this qualifies me as chronic. By Nov, after 4-5 relatively small doses, I was doing much better and have been able to enjoy life again. I have been doing a "maintenance" dose every 4 months since. Last week, I became a grandpaw. Wouldn't have been able to experience that incredible joy if I was dead, or rolling on the floor pulling my hair. The beast seems to be kicking up again the last few days; pressure building up behind my eyes, so it's time for another dose. Do I know for sure that this is what's doing the job? No. Am I going to keep it up? Damn straight I am. Do I enjoy it? No. But I enjoy that 6-inch nail in my head a LOT less. I'm in COMPLETE and TOTAL agreement with Pfloyd on this issue. I've been to the neuros and I've done the traditional meds. They SUCKED. No relief and side effects out the wazoo. Misery compounded with misery. You'll never get me to believe that a small dose of shrooms is anywhere near as dangerous as the triptans (esp at my age) or those godawful anti-seizure drugs like Topamax. As long as I can keep this MOFO at bay with shrooms, I will. It may be that it takes more doses to kill an active cycle than to simply keep it away, so I recommend giving this therapy 5-6 tries at least a week apart before hanging it up. This is based on my personal experience only; the beast may respond differently with different people. Yawl hang in there. Mike |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Jun 20th, 2003, 9:17pm on 06/17/03 at 10:04:36, CJohnson wrote:
I have no degree in neuropharmacology, but my guess would be that alkaline phosphatase has nothing to do with it, for two reasons: 1) LSD is by all accounts as effective (and some say more effective) as psilocybin/psilocin. Methysergide (Sansert) is chemically quite similar to LSD, though not as effective either psychedelically or as a "cluster buster". Yet alkaline phosphotase is not involved in metabolizing either compound. 2) Alkaline phosphotase is involved in de-phosphorolyzing many phosphor-containing compounds. If it were true that it had some kind of cluster-busting effect, there would have been reports of success with many phosphor-based medications (or even foodstuffs rich in phosphates). Don't forget that the amount of psilocybin molecules involved in these doses is very very small in comparison to to other phosphorus-rich compounds. Quote:
I would say the former, simply because there are many other serotenergic medications used in CH therapy with a much higher effect on conservation of serotonin. Quote:
Same response as above. There is more going on here than mere serotonin conservation. Quote:
Excellent point. I have heard of people taking Imitrex injections as little as 12 hours before taking a dose of psilocybin/psilocin and still obtaining excellent results. On the other hand, I know of people who had miserable results until they "detoxed" from imitrex for a few days before dosing. It may be that in the latter case, it was not so much the lack of 'trex that was the determining factor, but the multiple doses of psilocybin -- note that often even completely med-free individuals receive little relief from their first or second mushroom dose, but have increasing success with the third or fourth doses. The plain truth is that without clinical research, we have no way of knowing for a certainty which modern drugs may interfere with indole-based hallucinogens used for cluster headache therapy. There is however plenty of anecdotal evidence showing that certain modern medications interfere with the psychedelic activity of these same compounds. It seems prudent to assume there is a possibility that whatever suppresses the one effect will suppress the other. Since most people have both a limited supply of mushrooms and a limited tolerance to pain, the smartest strategy appears to be to assume that closely-related compounds will interfere to some extent and to try to use the psilocybin on hand as efficiently as possible. Having said that, I would not be astonished to someday read a clinical study showing that imitrex does not make a difference one way or the other. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Jun 20th, 2003, 9:39pm on 06/17/03 at 07:37:52, Flash wrote:
Agreed. The question is, how long does this take? There is no detectable level of psilocin left in one's system roughly 18 to 20 hours after ingestion. Does this mean that is how long one must wait? Nope! It has been noted by many experimenters that often the CH symptoms go sort of haywire for 24 to 48 hours after a dose of shrooms. Most report a lessening of frequency/severity, but some report an increase of same, with the symptoms coming at completely unpredictable times compared to the extreme regularity with which most of us can predict our next attack. To me, this indicates that even though there may no longer be a single molecule of psilocin left in the system, the brain is still in a state of flux -- let's call it post-psilocin flux (PPF for short). As Flash correctly points out, the idea is to let your brain settle into a "post-psilocin" state. If (while PPF is still occurring) we inject some imitrex molecules into the mix, is there not a possibility that the brain will then settle into a "post-imitrex" state rather than a "post-psilocin" state? I believe there is a strong possibility that this could occur, negating the beneficial effects of the psilocin dose. Back to the question of how long to wait AFTER dosing -- my personal belief is that 5 days may be longer than is required. Since the wild variability of PPF appears to last no longer than 48 hours (and is most often less than that) I would hazard a guess that 48 hours post-mushroom dose is sufficient. HOWEVER -- rather than grab for the imitrex at precisely 48 hours, I personally would grit my teeth, endure another 24 hours med-free, then take another dose of psilocybin instead. Although the most commonly quoted figure for the gap between doses is five days, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence showing that many individuals pursuing psychedelic adventure need wait as little as 72 hours between doses in order to experience the full effects. Others need a week or sometimes more. The figure of five days is an average, not something cast in stone. And again, this waiting period applies to psychedelic effect -- it may be that the cluster-busting effect operates under different rules. The waiting time may be shorter (or longer) for maximum cluster-busting efficacy. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on Jun 21st, 2003, 5:45am I would have to agree about the no med thing. During my last cycle, I used nothing more than 02, cold pacs and bit (to chomp on while being hit). Ok, kidding about the bit thing. Although I had to endure a few nasty kipps, the treatment did kick in and offer tremendous relief. Even med free I did experience the out of wack affect where once after dosing I had a mild but long lasting CH on and off for about 18 hours. I was not able to fully abort the cycle but did cut the frequency by about two thirds and the severity by 70 to 80 percent. I actually slept most nights and when I did get hit, 02 knocked out most of them. I still got the "banging the head" CH about once a week but this was down from the normal 2 to 3 heavy duty kipps per day. Still had shadows and could not predict (as normal) even the low level ones but for the first time in 15 years of biyearly cycles, I slept well and did not even get depressed. This treatment turned my cycle into more of an anoiance (sp) than a life controlling, life altering event. I will be experimenting with maintenance dowing and am not due to be hit again until late next summer or early fall. Time will tell but I am one of a few who have experience undeniable success with this treatment. Jmin |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by teri on Jun 21st, 2003, 7:29pm what are shrooms? and where do you get them? |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 21st, 2003, 11:23pm on 06/21/03 at 19:29:15, teri wrote:
Website: http://www.geocities.com/clusterbusters2002/index.html FAQ: http://home.attbi.com/~rwold350/index.html write if you have any questions P.Floyd |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by gtar_man on Jun 22nd, 2003, 8:59am Teri - do not hesitate. Go for it. My book, it's the ONLY effective treatment. All the neuros in the world can take all their torture pills and stuff 'em sideways. Mike |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jun 30th, 2003, 5:10pm This may be a little premature to post, but I am feeling so much better today, that I thought it was worth writing about. My little guardian angle sent some doses to me, which arrived this weekend. I dosed last night, even though it hadn't been 24 hrs. since I had used trex. As usual, the shrooms knocked me out like a light, and I actually made it through the whole night without a ch. I had a small one this morning that 02 knocked right out. This is the first time in so long I can't remember, that I wasn't up 4 or 5 times in the night. I just can't believe the difference that the shrooms make......it is simply amazing. Mixing the trex with the shrooms may shorten the PF time, but I really didn't have any choice. I couldn't have waited any longer to dose. My next dose will be after 48 hrs. without the trex, and hopefully, that will lengthen the PF time. Feel like I might actually survive now. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 1st, 2003, 2:49pm Mushrooms Appear to Work! This is my first post to the message board, and I just wanted to thank all of you who are courageous enough to post messages regarding using psilocybin to fight cluster headaches. I am a 34 year old male, and I've had episodic clusters once or twice a year since I was 16. They usually last for two months at a time and make life complete hell. I have been to every neurologist in the area and have tried every possible combination of meds to fight them. The psilocybin treatment intrigued me, and I learned this week about Imitrex being a close chemical cousin. Imitrex typically works for me to fight an acute attack, but I feel awful afterward like I'm hungover. I tried the mushrooms this past Saturday, and I haven't had an attack since. I'm just shocked that it worked. I read about the seratonin chemistry in your brain being "reset" after using psilocybin, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Before I tried it I asked my doctor if he thought it would work. He specifically stated that he could not recommend using an illegal substance, but from an academic standpoint he couldn't see a reason why it wouldn't work. I took about half of a recreational dose which I noticed effects of for about four hours. During the fourth hour I could feel a headache attack coming on, and I could feel pain (about a Kip 2). My left eye watered some, but this was not an unbearable event. The headache never broke through. I went to sleep shortly after the psilocybin effects wore off, and I slept through the night. I have felt mild "aftershocks" of pain since then, but it's as if the muscles typically involved in the cluster attack are just readjusting--finally relaxing after extreme stress. No headaches. So far the psilocybin is a huge success. This is my third day headache-free, and I was in the worst part of my cluster cycle when I tried it. If you want to try it, do your homework and have someone experienced "babysit" you during the process. I'll let you all know if it continues to work. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jul 1st, 2003, 4:34pm <<I tried the mushrooms this past Saturday, and I haven't had an attack since. I'm just shocked that it worked. >> Congrats! Glad to hear you're doing well! :D <<Before I tried it I asked my doctor if he thought it would work...........but from an academic standpoint he couldn't see a reason why it wouldn't work. >> I appreciate other guys - it helps increase your own confidence. Certainly if you are one of us who flat out says "Eat them up" - 'cause I HEARD some of us do.... ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 1st, 2003, 10:47pm Good luck Roxie....hope you can hold out the 48 hours. Happy to hear you got some well deserved rest and PF time. K-Man.....great news....give some thought to that 5 day follow up dose. PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 2nd, 2003, 10:49am PinkFloyd, What is the rationale for the 5-day follow-up dose? I have been considering doing it, but I wonder whether it's necessary. The mushrooms were extremely difficult to get, and I'm thinking I would rather store them for my maintenance dose in 6 months or until the next cluster cycle. Just curious--any details? K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 2nd, 2003, 12:04pm on 07/02/03 at 10:49:44, K-MAN wrote:
K-MAN Many people have have complete success with a single dose. Other's have needed a 2nd, and with more refractory cases, even more doses. We're all finding out info as we go and each case seems a bit different and really, only you can tell if you need subsequent doses. I liken it to what the doctor tells us about taking antibiotics. "Even if all the symptoms appear to be gone, continue taking the rest of the medication to make sure the infection is completely gone." I would suggest a 2nd dose if: You start to notice an increase in cluster activity rather than no activity at all or a slight increase in activity. Such as, you notice a shadow or two and they appear to be getting stronger rather than less intense with each episode. I just wanted you to be aware of what might happen and to try to pay close attention to what is happening to your system. Good luck...I hope you don't need any more doses for 6 months. Please do keep us posted. PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 2nd, 2003, 12:24pm PF, Thanks for the quick response. I will play it by ear and just listen to my body in order to make a decision about a second dose. Believe me, I will not hesitate to continue with this treatment if it appears necessary! After 18 years of suffering, psilocybin is the only treatment that has shown any real promise. I will keep all of you updated on my situation in hopes that others can learn from my experience. I am more than happy to return that favor to those of you who have posted information about this so far. Without you I couldn't have done this. Four pain-free days in a row so far, and all is well. Thank you. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jul 3rd, 2003, 7:38am K-MAN, Interesting... Your age, sex, age at onset, cycle, length of episode etc. are all very similar to mine. I am male, 32, age of onset 16, cycle episodeic 1 month in every 6. So no surprise they work well for you then! BTW - you approach is correct, avoid further doses unless the symtoms get worse. Your body chemistry may have found it's balance, so best not shake the bottle again. Switch to preventative doses between episodes, therefore once every 3 months, starting in 6 weeks time. Use weak doses - once battered it doesn't take much to keep the beast at bay. After 2 years without any CH reduce the frequency of maintenance dose to once every 6 months. After a further 2 years you may escape with just an annual dose. I have a decades experience of this, so trust me! At that point the biggest danger you face is thinking you might be cured, and skipping the dose. You'll only try that once. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 7th, 2003, 10:25am Just a quick update. After the first shroom dose, I got five days and nights of pain-free peace. On the morning of day six, I was awakened by the Beast at 5:30am. But instead of a full-on Kip 10, it was more of a low-grade Kip 2--enough to wake me up and enough to hurt, but a pain that was bearable. I decided not to hit it with Imitrex so I could do another shroom dose later on. So instead I took some leftover Midrin I found in the medicine cabinet. Anyone remember Midrin? Normally it doesn't work very well, but for a weak attack it was effective. I slept much of the day, and that evening did a second dose of shrooms. Same thing as before--felt a little weird for four hours and went right to sleep. Woke up feeling fine and haven't had any problems since. No attacks at all. I spent the next day having fun on the river and playing volleyball with friends. The holiday weekend was saved! I've got the Beast on the ropes now, and I'm going for the knockout. Hopefully the second dose was the final blow for this match. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 7th, 2003, 2:04pm Great News K-Man......glad you held out on the Imitrex!! After you're sure of the results, be sure to fill out the survey at www.clusterbusters.com PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jul 7th, 2003, 4:05pm I have been off the trex since last Monday night. I dosed Saturday night, and since then have only had one hit, and one really nasty shadow. I haven't worked up my nerve to go to bed without dramamine yet.....guess I'll give it a shot tonight. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 7th, 2003, 5:07pm on 07/07/03 at 16:05:24, Roxy wrote:
WOW...the good news keeps on comin.....I'm very happy you were doing well enough ( or were just plain strong enough) to go the full monty!! I'm hoping that it did enough good that you can do it again before needing the Trex....Good Luck Roxi. You're one tough cookie.. Want to be the poster girl for the Uncle Shroom Wants You posters? ;-) PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jul 8th, 2003, 5:22am I went looking for the survey on clusterbusters and can't find it??? Is there a link to it? Am I blind? Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Jul 8th, 2003, 8:37am Not too terribly blind Flash, It's on the faq page, section 2.2.3 http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html sorry...my URL "tags" are gone (don't know why) so you'll have to copy and paste that link. Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 8th, 2003, 8:51am on 07/08/03 at 08:37:52, Mastifflvr28 wrote:
It's also on the "research" page found on the menu. (my links work ;-) PF |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jul 8th, 2003, 10:39am on 07/07/03 at 17:07:24, Pinkfloyd wrote:
My family always says that I should be a poster child.....they just never say for what...... ;) ;D I have to give credit where credit is due......I didn't make it through the no trex without a lot of help. I had a lot of encouragement and help from Ted. He is the one who patiently listened to me bitch and whine about it, and I would imagine he got pretty tired of hearing it......but he remained very polite (even though I'm sure he wanted me to STFU). He also convinced me that is was the treatment and not the dramamine which was letting me sleep at night......he was right. No dramamine last night......no hits either. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jlm77 on Jul 9th, 2003, 1:28pm first time here--but not new to CH. i've been a sufferer for 26 yrs. have tried over 100 different meds--some have worked for 1 maybe 2 cycles then not at all. right now i use fourinal #3 , migrainal spray and neurontin--but still suffer. hot coffee and hot towels help to an extent--but can't kill the beast. i've been reading the posts on mushroons--and i'm going to give it a try. i'm cutting out my med to be clean to dose by sunday. i'll let you all know how it goes. thank you for all the info you have provided here----nothing else has helped me so what do i have to lose-----hopefully the beast ??? jeff |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by drkarlb on Jul 9th, 2003, 11:22pm Best Wishes Jeff~ Hope this treatment works well for you :D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on Jul 10th, 2003, 8:22am Jeff, PLEASE let us know how it goes for you. Remember, it sometimes takes two about a week apart and can get a little wacky while dosing (the CH that is). I too gave up on everthing else prior to this and hope you find the same relief as I. Best wishes Jmin |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 10th, 2003, 11:00am Round 3 - Mushroom treatment update. 1st dose - relief for 5 days (1/2 recreational dose) 2nd dose - relief for 4 days (1/2 recreational dose) After the 2nd dose wore off, the Beast returned and I didn't have any more mushrooms to take for it. I ended up having three attacks over a two-day period and had to use Imitrex to take care of business. I didn't want to do that injection, but I had to be able to function at work. The attacks were Kip 4 pain--it seemed the treatment had disabled the Beast but not killed it yet. Found some more mushrooms and dosed again last night (1/2 recreational dose), only 20 hours after the last Imitrex injection. The mushrooms worked fine, and I got complete relief and some quality sleep time last night. The doses I'm taking are very light, and I'm wondering if it's enough to end the cluster cycle. I am optimistic that this round will stop the cluster cycle. If it comes back after this third try, I'm going to increase the dosage closer to a recreational dose and see if that works any better. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 10th, 2003, 11:12am Jeff, Good luck with your treatment, and please post all the details after your first go-round. Hopefully we can all help each other through this experience. We've all suffered far too long, and we are on the verge of solving this puzzle. There is a high probability this will work for you. Best wishes and prayers. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jul 11th, 2003, 5:29am K-MAN, From mucho experience I wouldn't bother increasing the dose. The biggest problem is that you are attempting to break an episode. It takes more doses to break an episode than it does to prevent one. Usually a single dose between episodes is sufficient to prevent/postpone the forthcoming episode. During an episode it is often necessary to dose once every 5-7 days, and then slowly increase the time between doses. Under ideal curcumstances the duration of time between dosing when attacks are breaking through should be kept to a minimum. Personally I find that smaller doses work better than larger ones. In the same way that using a whole tube of toothpaste and brushing for 4 hours probably wouldn't make your mouth feel as good as regular brushing. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jul 11th, 2003, 6:07pm Jeff...good luck, and K-MAN, I'm glad it's working for you too. I dosed again last night, such a small dose that I felt no effects at all (but it did weigh out at 1 gram). Slept throught the night, and so far, so good today. It still just amazes me. I had to drive home from Dallas today, and was very worried, because I was out of 02....but my head never even twinged.... ;D ;D One thing I would like to point out, and I know the shrooms have this effect on a few people. 02 doesn't work real well for me normally, but after dosing, if I feel one trying to break through.....the 02 works extremely well. It just seems to give the abortives a boost. Not sure about trex.....11 days and counting without it.... ;D. Life is grand right now (other than the fact it's 105 outside), Tracey This post is now modified....I have to quit posting and saying I haven't been hit. I kid you not, after I wrote this....I'm now getting hit...sheeeesh.... :-/, talk about a walking jinx!!! |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on Jul 12th, 2003, 12:22pm Bob (PF) I didn't know how to answer this question on the survey If you have not tried hallucinogen treatment Were you taking any of the medications listed below immediately prior to or during the hallucinogenic treatment? (select all that are appropriate by holding down the Ctrl-key while clicking) Other : Lee |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 14th, 2003, 11:14pm on 07/12/03 at 12:22:29, forgetfulnot wrote:
Well Lee, if *I* read it right on the survey......if you have NOT tried the treatment, you weren't supposed to answer the question. At least on my screen, it says if you haven't, then skip to question #43... Take Care, Bob |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 15th, 2003, 5:16pm K-MAN Shroom Treatment Update Today is Day 6 after the third dose of shrooms. Mostly it's been easy and pain-free, and I have slept all night every night. I took dose 3 on a Wednesday night and went pain-free all day Thursday. On Friday morning I had a Kip 2 headache all day. I kept thinking it would eventually go away, but it was fairly persistent. I refrained from using any more Imitrex and just toughed it out through the work day. When I started the shroom treatment almost three weeks ago I stopped all other meds including Verapamil. After last Friday's low-grade CH, I decided to start back on the Verapamil. I had a few twinges of pain during the last couple of days, but I have a hunch the Verapamil and the shrooms are good together. The shrooms definitely decrease the frequency and intensity of the headaches, and the Verapamil works to depress the mechanism that allows the cluster pain to kick in. I am likely to use this combination again if I need it in the future. The other possibility is that the third dose of shrooms finally shut down the cluster cycle. (I didn't start shroom doses until I was well into the cycle. This is less than ideal.) This is possible that it's all over, but I think it's more likely the shrooms have severely disabled the cluster cycle. I think it has struck at its core and that it's very difficult for a headache attack to break through. I think the Verapamil can easily handle the low-grade attacks at that point. This is all speculation on my part that is based on personal experience. All I know is that I'm getting almost a week of relief at a time, and I can sleep through the night. I'm starting to feel almost lifelike. As all of you know that's a HUGE deal. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by dnafe on Jul 17th, 2003, 5:24am Hi All Well the beasts have returned after a three year hiatus, had a feeling they were going to return... Having read with great interest the "Mushroom" posts I have one question...assuming I can get my hands on some shrooms what is considered an appropriate dose for a male 220lb. Feel free to email me with replies Thanks in advance Don Nafe |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 18th, 2003, 6:06am on 07/15/03 at 17:16:34, K-MAN wrote:
Several clusterheads have tried this combination with success. They haven't posted in a LONG time so I presume they are continuing to have success with it. Quote:
Why do you think so? Because you can still sense The Beast trying to "break through"? Not saying you are mistaken, just curious. pinky |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Tessa on Jul 20th, 2003, 6:44pm Roxy, please tell me what kind and how much you took. I am really curious about trying the shroom treatment myself, I just heard about it on this site last year, but I was breastfeeding. I have had CH's for 17 years and have tried everything. Your success story is even more encouraging, and I feel the same as you, kind of afraid to try, but desperate to find anything to abort the demon! Teresa |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 20th, 2003, 7:05pm Pinky, To answer your question about the Verapamil. Even with several doses of mushroom tea I'm still getting signs that the Beast is breaking through. The improvement with the shrooms is dramatic, but I'm staying on the Verapamil until I'm sure the coast is clear. K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by K-MAN on Jul 28th, 2003, 9:46am Final shroom update--hope this helps: After the 4th dose of shrooms it seems that the Beast has been licked. No major attacks for a week and a half--only a few minor ones that are easy to deal with. I've also been taking Verapamil SR 180 once a day, and that has been taking care of the remaining potential CH breakthroughs. I can feel them trying to break through every few days. Sometimes I'll get a K1 headache early morning, but an Imitrex 25 pill will usually fix it in an hour or so. I'm going to stay on the Verapamil for a few more weeks before tapering off. The mushrooms were a good alternative to the usual steroids and other hard drug therapies. Good luck to all of you. I hope you all get complete and total relief. PFDAN, K-MAN |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Jul 28th, 2003, 10:13am OK folks... Name one other thing that you need less than 4 shots at to terminate an episode in full swing? (Please note that .45 caliber lead doesn't count.) Seriously though - what price on each shot? $10, $20, $50 even? Well it cost way less than that, and provided significant relief between each dose to boot. Pretty fuckin effective if you ask me. For an even more impressive performance try taking a single 1/2g dose smack between episodes, every 3-6 months. That way you'll go years without a single CH. I know because I have. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Jul 28th, 2003, 12:11pm on 07/20/03 at 18:44:08, Tessa wrote:
Tessa, I am so sorry it has taken me so long to answer. I missed your post somehow, and I'm really sorry. I use EQ's, and I take one gram for a dose. I understand the fear part, and I still and not real thrilled when I know it's time to dose. I'm dosing every five days right now.....and I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or not. I'm not getting PF time, but I do get just 3/4 hits a day, so it is better. I'm hoping it's going to just take some time to get better than this. I'm dosing again tonight, so we'll see how it goes. I got hit at the convention quite a bit, but I was past my dosing time. Good luck, and let me know if I can help in any way.....just email me. Tracey |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Aug 5th, 2003, 9:41am Is this the most read thread on the message board ever? |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Aug 8th, 2003, 6:45pm 5 nights PF.....and counting....whoo hoo!! I can't reiterate enough for those who have no meds which work for them....try the shroom treatment. It is nothing less than amazing...... ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on Aug 13th, 2003, 8:25am To those who are interested and not a member of clusterbusters, we just recieved another report of a cycle that was completely avoided with this treatment. We have lost contact with a large number of people due to the fact that they no longer need support as they have found thier cure. Just an FYI to those who care. jmin |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Roxy on Aug 30th, 2003, 8:51pm Three weeks......three hits...... :o This is absolutely wonderful....life is good....... ;D |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Giovanni on Aug 31st, 2003, 4:36pm After reading all of these success stories with shrooms, I have been convinced to give this treatment a try. I will try or do anything to get rid of these things. Last cycle I continuously overdosed on imitrex to the point of rebounds. I am now on heart medication and really do not know how much longer I can take imitrex safely. The question I have being new to this, is buying these shrooms on the streets okay? I have never used illegal drugs of any kind and do not know quite how to go about this endeavor. I don’t feel confident in growing them, but if they work I will give growing a try (horticulturaly challenged). Any advice would be appreciated. I am currently not in cycle, but would like to be prepared for the next one. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Mastifflvr28 on Aug 31st, 2003, 5:23pm First of all, Roxy, big huge congrats on your pf times, and I hope it lasts FOREVER. secondly, gio...just read this whole site: http://www.clusterbusters.com and you will be an expert in no time. As for farming, it's really super easy...even for the horticulturally challenged. Here's an excellent growing tek that you need to read also: http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/scgg.html Easiest to do all this when you're pain free. Get prepared. Good luck, if you need any help, lemme know. Mast |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Flash on Aug 31st, 2003, 6:40pm Giovanni - I'm not sure that taking shrooms is a good idea if you are on heart medication. Flash |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on Sep 2nd, 2003, 9:38am Gio, I'd have to agree with flash on this one. Not to panic you but a feeling of panic or extreem anxiousness can be a result of dosing. Not sure how an ailing ticker would react to that. |
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Title: Re: Success with shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 2nd, 2003, 12:16pm on 09/02/03 at 09:38:39, jminmilwaukee wrote:
On the other hand, shrooms are probably safer than the imitrex he's been taking. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that there are receptors in the heart muscles that the imitrex attaches to, giving people the problems with heart attacks/tightening of the chest muscles, etc that have been reported with Imitrex. I don't believe the psilocybin reacts the same way or effects the heart in this way. I'd be inclined to try a piece under the tongue and see if it has any effect at all....but then thats just me, playing with *my* life and not someone else's. I'd just come out and ask the doc what he thinks. It seems that a surprising number of headache specialists (if he is one) has at least some knowledge of the subject, just based on research they've read on sansert and related "legal" substances. PF |
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