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Title: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 17th, 2003, 6:36am Was getting hit intermittantly over the course of the last couple of months. Initially once a week, just shadows, then built up to a headache (kip3-4) every night. 4 weeks ago I dose with a small quantity of shrooms. The shrooms were Liberty Cap, and had been preserved in honey and kept in the fridge since last October. For the 2 weeks subsequent to that dose the headaches cleared up completely. I then fell ill with a nasty virus, it is along the lines of glandular fever only not quite as nasty, but much worse than the flu. This illness has lasted 2.5 weeks now and is clearing up. The problem is that the illness disrupted my sleeping patterns, my sleep at night was disturbed and I was sleeping a lot during the day. The headaches came back, and I think this was mainly due to the disrupted sleep. Over the course of the last week they have gradually built up into a fully fledged episode. I didn't want to take more shrooms while I was already feeling ill, so I waited until last night when I was feeling a bit better. I had trouble extracting the shrooms individually and 40 shrooms plus a sizable blob of honey ended up in the pan. I brewed this into tea and drank 1/2 of it - figuring that would take me to the same place as last time (level 1). Normally 10 shrooms would get me to level 1, but the potency seems to degrade in the honey. Well it appears that the psilocybin acutally enters the honey and remains there at it's full potency. Nothing much happened to me for 2 hours, then wham I was at a much higher level than I was comfortable with. I was also all alone since my wife was working in the bar. I started to panic. Panicing when under shrooms is next to impossible to control. What I experienced could be be described as terror. Thoughts were racing through my head: How long would it last? Who could I call (at midnight)? Should I call an ambulance? Am I going to have a heart attack? What if I go insane? Bear in mind this is all coming in a confused rush and interspaced with hallucinations. I was pacing about, crawling on the floor, leaning out the window to get air. I called my wife at the bar, and asked her to hurry home. I was beginning to lose my ability to use the phone. I managed to get a number for the Samaritans and called them just to hear another voice. The problem is those people are trained to listen, and used to dealing with suicides, and the guy wanted me to do all the talking. By the time my wife got home I was covered in sweat and shaking with fear. The shrooms came on at midnight, and Laura got home at 1am. That hour seemed to last a week. By 2am I was beginning to calm down, but still shaking and very scared. I didn't get to sleep until 5am. I really though I was going to die. I have always been scared of hallucinogenic drugs, but the benefits of taking them in small doses outweighed my fear. At this point it's too early to say whether I will use them again - I did get a terrible scare. I fear that the same thing would happen next time. Bear in mind though that I have used this treatment for 10 years, and this is the only time it's gone wrong. If I do take them again it will be 6 shrooms and no honey!!! Feeling unwell obviously didn't help. Previously the shrooms have always made me feel really nice... although I always get a bit of anxiety on the uptake. I'm posting this to make sure that everyone is fully clued up on the dangers of this treatment. I'm perfectly OK today, but last night was the scariest of my life. In my experience very small doses as effective as larger ones - especially when taken between episodes. The problem we face is that until some drug manufacturer releases a pill with just the right quantity, there will always be a risk of taking too much. I've done something like 15-20 doses over the course of the last decade (that's not a lot, some people use that much Imitrex in a week). This is the first time that things have worked out badly for me, the problem is that when it does go bad, it is very frightening. Incidentally I have been hit with more headaches starting from 0650 this morning, hopefully they'll dissappear over the next couple of days, but it is much harder to shift an episode once it's established like this. I often get shadows for a couple of days after, but this was 2 hours of #8... Being awake and cacking it all night obviously didn't do much for my short term prognosis! I'll keep this thread updated as to what happens over the course of the next couple of weeks. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by suzy617 on Apr 17th, 2003, 1:08pm I never tried this and dont think I will now. Spooky stuff. Glad your ok and hope your on the road to PF. Take care of yourself, suzy |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 17th, 2003, 2:29pm on 04/17/03 at 06:36:09, Flash wrote:
That is exactly what happened. The longer the shrooms remain in the honey, the more psilocybin is leached out of the mushroom flesh -- leaving them noticeably less potent as you have already observed from past experience -- but making the surrounding honey quite potent indeed. I have read on various entheogen community boards exactly how to maximize this effect, ending up with the famous "blue honey". Quote:
This is why I have always recommended drying the mushrooms for longterm storage rather than storing them in honey. Apart from the fact that dried mushrooms retain their potency much longer, it greatly simplifies the estimation of dosage size. The only folks I know who still use honey storage are those living in the UK. Please don't take this as a criticism, Flash, because it is not. I realize that because of the peculiarities of UK law regarding shroom possession, fresh mushrooms stored in honey are legal while dried mushrooms are illegal. There is much to be said for staying on the correct side of the law. However, for most of us, shrooms are illegal to possess whether they are fresh-picked or dried or stored in honey or brewed into a tea, so I strongly recommend drying them to a "cracker-dry" state and storing them that way. Quote:
I gave you a lot of credit for your warning. As the first (and one of the most vociferous) advocate of this treatment to post your experiences on this message board, it would be all too easy for you to mention only the benefits and to gloss over or fail to report the possible hazards. I applaud your objectivity. Quote:
Hopefully that frightening experience will at least yield a remission of a decent length. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. pinky |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Karla on Apr 17th, 2003, 2:56pm Glad you made it Bro. Sorry you had to go through that experience. Hopefully you will get some remission with this. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by eyes_afire on Apr 17th, 2003, 6:56pm Flash, I know the fear which you talk about. That scenario happened to me, except I still can't figure out exactly why since honey was not involved (but I was in the 2.5g - 3g dried range, so that's kinda pushing the envelope). I believe it was a combination of factors. My jaw dropped reading your description because it was extremely similar to mine. You are correct when you say the feelings are nearly impossible to control, I can vouch for that and I'm usually extremely controlled. I had to call my sister for company, it definately helps to have someone there (but often I'm alone and company is not an option :(). I was able to dose several times afterwards but it was not as 'easy' as before. When I was dosing, I was deliberately dosing on the heavier side in order to see if 'more was better' (my personality style sometimes takes me to extremes). Based on my experience and what I've heard from others, there doesn't seem to be any advantage in reaching anything higher than trip level 2. I still say that on a per dose basis, the psilocybin is the most effective CH treatment I've tried. But I wish that it had a more lasting effect for me as it has had for others. Although I THINK it helped calm down my cycle, it never really eliminated it for me, and I needed to dose weekly. But it did very much help me survive on a week-to-week basis, and prevented the fleecing of my wallet to the ridiculous imitrex prices. I hope that you have eliminated your cycle. PFD&N --- Steve, one of many... |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Frank on Apr 17th, 2003, 9:20pm Woodstock Concert (1969) - "Don't take the brown acid, man". 8) No, seriously.... when I was 18-19 I experimented with LSD quite a bit (that was 28 years ago). Mostly it was "groovy"... sat around, listened to music, watched the patterns in the carpet move around, saw cool stuff, etc. One night, I had a friend over and it was raining... actually there was a thunderstorm. I heard and saw little purple men with green rubber shoes with suction cups on them running across the roof all night (the rain) and police pounding on the walls of the house (the thunder). Sometime later my friend left and he had left a beer can on the floor... only I swear that I saw him turned into that beer can. That beer can on the floor was all that was left of my friend, and what was I going to say later if somebody came by the house later and wanted to know where he was? I was going to be busted. That was him (the beer can). I was so scared after that night I never touched LSD again. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Marc on Apr 17th, 2003, 10:47pm Flash, I want to mirror Pinky's comment: I applaud your objectivity and sorry you had go through that! Thank you, Marc Kurth |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 18th, 2003, 4:37am After my 2 hour kip8 subsided yesterday morning I was left with a migraine of kip1 - kip4 that lasted the rest of the day and well into the night. By 1am i had it down to kip one (practised a lenghty stint of self hypnosis) and managed to get to sleep whereby it faded out. Woke up today with tender left temple and 'nippy' head - a bit like a mild hangover, nothing to write home about. It is now 1040am and no CH attack so far today. Don't know how this is going to shake out, but hopefully the episode will have been aborted (as is usual for me). The next 3-4 days are make or break. i'll be taking it easy and attempting to get a solid 8 hours sleep each night and eating 3 meals a day at regular intervals. Alchohol, smoking (not that I do anymore), stress, and exciting foods will be avoided. The points I was trying to get accross in my last post were: 1) This treatment is not for everybody. That would change if it were possible to guarantee with 100% certainty that an exact subhallucinogenic dose could be achieved every time. Even drying and measuring in grams it is not certain as to how strong the mushroom is (and sometimes people aren't even sure of the species). I will conceed however that drying is much safer than fresh storage!!! There is also the human element... give someone a pill and they don't have a lot of options for screwing up. Tell someone to measure a gram of dried mushroom, and believe it or not there is room for error (oops I thought it said ounces etc). Unlikely but it wouldn't be the first time a human has fucked up. Take me for instance. I should have guessed the psilo would have leached into the honey. 2) This is the best treatment for CH, however it does have risks and we must be careful not to understate those. True the worst thing that can happen is technically an anxiety attack, but it's the worst anxiety attack know to man, and although it only lasts a couple of hours it feels like a week. 3) My attack yesterday reminded me of just how nasty CH is. I was miserable thinking that I might have to endure a month of this. I was worried about my businesses - would they survive a month of my being absent. I was worried about my wife - would she cope without me. CH is shit. With that in mind I have no option but to continue using shrooms. I need to be more careful, and I also need to go back to very small doses. I should return to dosing between episodes as this is more effective and it means I only have to dose twice a year. 4) I felt it was only fair to fill people in on any negative aspects that I experienced as well as the positive ones. If I have failed to abort this episode then I will advise that is the case. When it comes to this treatment it is important that we tell it straight. 5) If some drug company would invest in bringing a pill to market that contained the correct dose of psilocybin, and perhaps combined it with something like a beta-blocker (assuming that was safe to do) then all our problems would be solved. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Apr 18th, 2003, 1:07pm on 04/17/03 at 06:36:09, Flash wrote:
Thanks for the report Flash. Sorry you had to go through such a rough time. This is a good example of the importance of getting the "set and setting" prepared. I think its always a good idea to make sure you aren't alone and that you're always dose with the mindset that each episode might bring about a different and possibly more intense trip. Going places that you aren't mentally prepared to go can certainly be an unsettling experience. I guess this demonstrates that we the "lab rats" still have a ways to go before we have all the possibilites documented properly. Thanks again for the report. Until we get that little "pill" its important to spread the word on all the possible pitfalls. I think its also important to note that in your case, it appears that you dosed with 6 or 7 times the amount with which you normally dosed. Hope this dose does the trick for a long time! Be well BobW |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by stoneystone on Apr 21st, 2003, 1:00am Flash, Man do I simpathize with you. I first tried shrooms about 10 years ago at a Halloween party in Boulder, Co. I had no idea what I was doing and drank several cups of tea and ate a number of caps. I have never felt terror like that in my life, liquid fear. The fear was the only feeling. Unfortunately for me it triggered panic attacks and crushing anxiety that lasted for years. My clusters continue to eat away at my quality of life but I'm too terrifed to try the shroom treatment again. Even at a low level dose I think the anticipation of that fear would be too much. Best of luck Flash. Stoney |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by ozzythaman on Apr 21st, 2003, 8:18pm ever thought that psychedelics may be the cause of your CHs? |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Mikey on Apr 21st, 2003, 9:04pm As for you, Ozzythaman shut the fuck up until you know more than you do, because obviously you don't know a fucking thing you're talking about. Thats after reading your other post too! Mikey, >:( |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 22nd, 2003, 12:56am If I may summarize the basic point of this thread: 1) It is important to one's peace of mind not to take too high a dose of mushrooms. 2) It is not always easy (particularly in the case of wild-gathered mushrooms) for an individual to determine in advance how much is too much. The thing is, mushrooms vary in potency from batch to batch, species to species. As well, individual reactions to the same quantity of psilocybin vary widely -- give ten different people the exact same quantity of psilocybin, and there will almost certainly be one or two who report feeling much less "high" than the rest, and one or two who report feeling much more "high" than the rest. I feel kind of silly stating the obvious here, but there are a few standard precautions that will reduce to almost zero the chances of experiencing a "bad trip" -- 1) Start small. Don't glom down ten dry grams of an untried batch of mushrooms. Take a gram, evaluate, go from there. 2) Have a trusted companion on hand for the first dose, and take the dose in comfortable, familiar surroundings where the chance of interruptions is minimized. 3) If things do start to get a little intense, don't fight it. USE it. PLAY with it. Go with the flow. I don't want to get into a big public debate over this, but I will say that it is NOT a given that once you start to get scared there is "nothing you can do" to counter it. I repeat, I am NOT going to argue this point, so those of you who hold different opinions on the matter may as well hold your comments. Besides, the whole point of this post is to present techniques for never allowing the situation to reach that point at all. Like most of the meds we clusterheads are forced to deal with, psilocybin if used incorrectly can have some unpleasant (temporary) side effects, particularly if recommended doses are exceeded. As Flash correctly points out, it is trickier determining proper dosage for psilocybin than it is for many other meds, so it is only sensible to err on the side of caution if there is the least doubt in your mind. pinky |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 22nd, 2003, 1:25pm Ozzythaman - ever think that stupidity may be the cause of your CH? No wait - you need a brain to be affected by CH. I went until 4am Sun without an attack, so that was 2 whole days of remission. The 4am attack on Sun was what most people who have never had a #10 would describe as a #10. It lasted over 2 hours and involved me crying and begging to a higher power for mercy. The attack was so brutal that the back of my neck was still swollen in the morning, and Laura had to rub it for a long time to get me back to normal. I then invoked PLAN B. PLAN B is what I do should the shrooms only achieve a partial success. In the 10 years that I have used this treatment this is only the fourth instance of an episode I have experienced. Prior to this my regular cycle was 1 month in every 6. So I should have had 20 episodes, instead I have had 4. Two of those were due to not having any shrooms, and therefore being unable to dose. The previous one was due to dosing too little too late. In that instance (back in 2000), the episode lasted 1 week as opposed to 1 month, but the headaches were more frequent, more intense, and lasted longer. It was as if I only experienced the peak week of the episode. This time I had dosed successfully and aborted the episode a few weeks back. The episode returned, I believe because my sleep patterns were badly disrupted due to a nasty virus that has had me in bed for the best part of 3 weeks now. In my opinion the treatment would otherwise have been a success. The second dose I took was too strong for comfort, and that combined with feeling unwell resulted in the afore mentioned scare. Since Sun I experienced only shadows throughout the rest of Sunday and all Monday until 4am Tuesday. Please note that PLAN B help avoid what might otherwise have been several attacks during that period. The 4am attack hit when I was sleeping, and came on extremely fast, so there was no time for PLAN B. The good news is that it only reached #7 and was over in an hour. I then had multiple short low level attacks along with background migraine all day today. My typical episode used to involve 6 attacks each day of roughly 30mins - 1 hour. At peak (usually lasting 3 days) the attacked would increase in duration to 3 hours with a migraine constantly running in the background. The intensity would also rise to #9-#10 for that period. Everything would subside quickly in the week that followed the peak. Like last time around all I have experienced is what feels like the peak. Until last night this consisted of only 2 actual headaches, and only 1 of those was serious. Last night the main attack was painful but beqarable and realtively short lived. In my opinion the shrooms have made a dramatic improvment to my quality of like during this episode. no other medicine could have aborted the first 3 weeks entirely, and taken peak down to 3 headaches in 5 days. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by jonny on Apr 22nd, 2003, 2:46pm on 04/22/03 at 13:25:30, Flash wrote:
Flash dude, Ozz doesent even have CH, hes only here to save us......LOL ;D .............................jonny |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 22nd, 2003, 3:40pm Fuck me sideways jonny - long time no see. I only visit the treatments section in this new board. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by jonny on Apr 22nd, 2003, 4:33pm Good to see ya, Flashman I wander down here once in awhile to see if I can answer a question or two, im usually upstairs keeping the peeps on their toes.....LOL ;D Viva la shrooms....(Did that make any sence?....LOL) ...............................jonny ;D |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by firebrix on Apr 22nd, 2003, 5:27pm Thanx for the update Flash. Glad the scary trip helped after all. Hope the virus has gone and that the ha. pass quickly. Pinksharkmark wrote: "3) If things do start to get a little intense, don't fight it. USE it. PLAY with it. Go with the flow." I agree. Explore it and try to banish your fears. There are scarier things in life than the space between our ears! Wishing you a speedy return to pain free days firebrix |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by michaelc on Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:18am Dude, Glad you're Ok! Scary huh? I have had trips like that - it seems neverending at the time, but don't focus on that ... High Dose Rule #1 - Don't fight it. You can't control the intensity of it - it will keep exceeding whatever you can concieve of - The MOST insane possibilities keep happening - All of your psychological defenses and mental landmarks are obliterated - and the insane circus of the mind spews forth, relentlessly ... All you can do is: REMAIN AN OBSERVER - you are an explorer in the inner world. Don't act anything out, or act on any paranoias, recognize your confusion, relax into it - If you are VERY Afraid, then objectify it and think to youself or Say out loud: "I am tripping on mushrooms, which are not-toxic and will wear off in 3 hrs, and I am Very Scared of _______ and this is because mushrooms amplify emotions so presently they are amplifying my Fears" say "wow, i'm really fucking confused - Too confused to even determine if there is a problem or not" and put on some soothing music if possible and lay down, close your eyes and sink into the music. The intense level of confusion and fear that you experienced can be changed in an instant to the same intensity of awe, wonder and joy. Level 5 trips are almost ALWAYS SCARY. No way around it. But Scary does not necessarily mean BAD. It's scary to ride a roller-coaster to the heart of the soul .... to confront your deepest fears and demons in startling fully-immersive 3-D timelesness. To have your body and even your mind explode into a million discrete fragments, Depersonalization is always unsettling to the attendant ego. These are the high-dose mantra's - Print them in ~~Rainbow Colors~~ and keep on hand!!!!!!(really) "I ate mushrooms & It's gonna wear off in 3 hrs" "REMAIN AN OBSERVER - Don't act anything out" "it's just paranoia - relax" "dont worry - be happy" "gone fishin'" best of luck in knocking out this cycle. ~michael |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by firebrix on Apr 23rd, 2003, 2:52pm A little more on the fear aspect: We are conditioned to fear. Its a survival technique. I used to be fear-filled when I had to go deep into the bowels of some dark old boiler thru' a small hole, down a ladder to who knows where and occasionally wondered what would happen if I had to get out fast - like -" it took 5 mins to get IN here - how long's it gonna take to get out?" I used to work in a state of panic. Mopar who had a lot more experience than I helped me this way: "Sure I get a bit scared - its scary! BUT fear and exhilaration are very close cousins. All I do is tell myself that this is really really exciting and exhilarating - after all, not everyone gets to go where we do! Practise this and you'll see what I mean." Y'know - it WORKS!! Whenever that flutter of fear occurred, I'd banish it with a severe talking to myself: "CMON now. This is exciting! Thrilling even - better than that awful rollercoaster! AND I'm going to get out of here soon and have a nice cup of tea in the sun! I am NOT afraid. I am excited." I am not saying that we should never fear anything, just that there are some things we react to with fear when this reaction is quite unneccesary. Maybe this will help ?? firebrix |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:01pm I'll just build up to it slowly. The worst part was realising I'd overdone it and not knowing how far it would go. PF all day today, and it's now 10pm. Some minor shadows that's all. This is my wimpiest episode ever (so far). Believe shrooms are to thank for so few HAs. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Mark C on Apr 23rd, 2003, 4:41pm 8) |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by das on Apr 24th, 2003, 4:58pm The fact that you were afraid to do the shrooms is usually a sure sign not to do them. All the things you experienced when "bad tripping" are the standard paranoia one can experience at a time such as that. You had a bad trip. Plain and simple. You can control a bad trip easily by simply telling yourself its the drugs, it isn't real. Taking halucinogens isn't for the weak of mind. The things you described were just feelings of panic brought on by a lack of tolerance and uderstanding for the drugs you were taking. My advice to anyone considering doing shrooms for the first time is to ask around and talk to people that have experienced the drug. They would easily be able to describe in detail the things you could expect. BTW, it is evident that shrooms doesn't work for everybody and I highly doubt the fact that shrooms can worsen or bring on one's cycles. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 25th, 2003, 1:44pm Das - that wasn't my first trip. I have been using this treatment since 1993. I am probably approaching 20 trips. I had a trip only a few weeks before that originally aborted the episode (until my sleep was badly disrupted by a nasty long running virus). That trip was fine. The problem was this time I lost control of the dose due to my method of preserving the shrooms in honey instead of drying them. I have always preserved in honey and this is the first time that has ever happened. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on Apr 25th, 2003, 1:48pm Hit last 2 nights in a row. Frist night took care of it with PLAN B - no problem. Last night it was out for blood, aborted first 2 but next one came on very fast and very powerful, then entered hell of 3 x 3 hour #10 headaches with only 10-15 mins in between them. Feel like shit today. See my main post on "Just how bad can it get". Feel to ill to do any shrooms at the moment, but may try over the weekend if things calm down. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by paragate on May 22nd, 2003, 5:52pm Lots of good advice up there that I won't repeat. Here's something to chew on: there is no such thing as a "bad" trip. It's all in your head, man. Entheogens amplify our emotional states. If the primary emotion is fear, that gets amplified. Etc.] Try doing some relaxation exercises during the onset. Meditation is great if you do that, so is yoga. But so is just sitting, chilling, and doing some very relaxed deep breathing -- diaphramattic breathing (i.e., breathing from your diaphram and belly, and not shallowly from your chest). It really works and can establish a really good set. This is all key even if you think you're doing low dose, because as Flash's experience demonstrates, shit happens when you're dealing with critters from the plant world. There are means of extracting the alkaloids, which could give you a stable and fairly standardized supply, but they are involved and illegal so I probably won't say more. Check out the erowid vaults if you're interested. One more suggestion: have an "emergency kit" handy. Atavan and xanax are really good. They can be taken sublingually and come on in 15-30 minutes and truly do take the edge of, soften things, even lull you into a comfortable sleep. More potent are the atypical antipsychotics: seroquel and zyprexa (olanzapine) being the most common. They'll cut a trip short within less than an hour in most cases, and then you'll snooze like a baby. Of course, you probably need a scrip to add these things to the tool chest, but if you can swing it, it would be worthwhile. I know that at times I feel more comfortable just knowing I have the kit handy, and that makes things flow more smoothly from the get-go. Can anyone point me to a thread in here where perhaps other seratonergic psychedelics have been discussed? Not psilocybin or LSD, but some of the others. If not, I may start a thread, but as the new kid on this block I want to know if anyone has already started that discussion. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Flash on May 23rd, 2003, 4:08am You've made a very good point there. Both my GP and consultant have condoned me treating myself with shrooms (I honestly believe that due to this MB, word has spread through the medical community, because nobody seems as shocked as they were 5 years ago). I imagine that my GP would be willing to prescribe me antipsychotics. I suggest that everyone using hallucinogenic treatment approach their GP for antipsychotics. This way we will be moving towards widespread acceptance of the treatment, and help pull it into the maintstream. In other words the Doc can't prescribe you what he wants but he can prescribe you something to deal with any problematic side effects... Also - in case anyones interested my episode has definately ended. Flash |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by hdbngr on May 23rd, 2003, 11:38am Flash: Been following your experences pretty closely. Thanks for posting the good and the bad. If it was all "good" it would sound too good to be true, and be a deterent to trying. I think many of us have learned to be suspicious of "instant" cures. I even got an email from some dude who tried to sell me this cream with herbs in it that you rub in a circle around your belly button... It CURED his cluster headaches immediately, and for $9.95, he would share that cream with me....we suffer from pain, not stupidity! The honesty is appreciated and admired. I'm sorry you had to go through such an experience. It doesn't make sense that I feel better about it for knowing, but I do. I know that anything worth having is usually not easy to obtain, and hope you will keep trying. Also hope you are feeling better and thanks for posting about the alternatives. Hdbngr |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 11:11am Quote:
Well, I'm not sure that is really the case, I grew up in the sixty’s and Orange Sunshine was as plentiful as mini-whites and been on some mind bending M-Fs in my time, however I had a similar experience as Flash just a couple of months ago. There was no fear involved, just the worst three hours I have ever spent on this planet. Somehow I dosed wrong and knew I had to ride it out, very unpleasant, wish you would just go ahead and die kind of fun. Beware of those grow at home shrooms, may be twice as strong as the ones you bought on the street in the past. Lee |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by brain_cramps on May 25th, 2003, 11:33am on 05/25/03 at 11:11:32, forgetfulnot wrote:
Lee: I think that is a HUGE GENERALIZATION. While I haven't tried any that were grown indoors, I have noticed the dosages required by a number of people are considerable higher than dosages required by myself and friends years ago. This can be for a number of reasons: Type of mushroom, where the 'outdoor shrooms' were grown, conditions under which the 'indoor shrooms' were grown, "freshness", etc... Speaking from my own experience while picking shrooms on the west coast of Canada more than 20 years ago, some of the dosages I've read about here would have been a BAD CASE OF OVERKILL with the shrooms we were picking back then. This has been discussed here in the past. "Blanket statements" like the quote above can be very misleading, and even dangerous. grant 8) |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 11:56am Quote:
Then you really don't know what you are talking about, and that Sir is the only thing missleading going on here. Lee |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by brain_cramps on May 25th, 2003, 12:10pm on 05/25/03 at 11:56:36, forgetfulnot wrote:
Lee: While I admit I have never done any that were grown indoors, I have spoken with and read of MANY people that have. Take my word for it: With the shrooms we picked and consumed at that time, multi-gram dosages were unneeded for 'recreational' use. As has been discussed here, the amount required for a 'medicinal' dosage is nowhere near what is required for 'recreational' use. Figure it out for yourself, grant 8) P.S. You may want to re-read what I wrote: on 05/25/03 at 11:33:47, brain_cramps wrote:
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 12:23pm Quote:
Figure this out, shrooms purchased on the street can be any variety, any age, you have no idea where they came from, how they were stored and on and on, my statement in no way was missleading and if anything might be benificial to new farmers, dangerous I don't think so. Did we get up on the wrong side today? Lee |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by brain_cramps on May 25th, 2003, 12:28pm Lee: At what point in my post did I refer to "shrooms purchased on the street"? If I was picking them myself, how could I "have no idea where they came from, how they were stored"? ??? Upon re-reading your post, I have noticed that you referred to "shrooms purchased on the street", as opposed to "indoor" vs "outdoor" shrooms. Sorry if you took exception to my statement, grant |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by paragate on May 25th, 2003, 2:54pm Dude, I'm sure I've eaten as much orange barrel, purple microdot, yellow microdot, windowpanes, geltabs, liquid LSD, even crystal LSD as you have. Same for shrooms, psilocybin extracts, peyote and mescaline, ayahuasca and other forms of DMT. Pretty much anything psychedelic that's ever been made. Probably more. And I stand by my statement. There is no such thing as a "bad" trip. Terrifying, awe-inspiring, all sorts of things, but not "bad." It's all in your head, and it's just your mind working shit out. The good-bad dualism is just as much just in your head. Everything can be a learning experience. Take it at that and see where the ride leads you and take the time afterwards to comprehend, understand, learn from and integrate the experience. I'm speaking from experience. Quite a number of trips that were utterly terrifying. Still when all's said and done I can't say any of them were "bad." Scary, frightening, but not bad. I learned something from each one, and that's a good thing. Anyway this is a side track. As to your main point, about being careful of those "grow at home" shrooms, the same thing applies to any shrooms. Might, as you said, be twice as potent as what you're used to; might be half as potent. That's why it's always best to test an unknown batch as a very low dosage and if that doesn't do it for you, up it 25-50 percent the next time around, until you get where you need to be. I've grown shrooms that were easily four to five times as potent by dried weight as average cubies available on the street at the time. I've also grown 'em where they weren't even half as strong. I don't grow anymore, but the technology hasn't changed and neither have the available spore strains and races. And I've also had shrooms picked from the wild that were every bit as potent; same for shrooms bought "off the street." Which street is that, anyway? ;) Bottom line: be careful, always, under every circumstance. Know what you have and how your particular mind interacts with it. Know how to know when your head is in the right space and when it isn't. And most important for this message board: Know how to provide yourself with a clearly sub-psychotropic dose, if you're using them to treat CH. And if you make an "oops," learn how to make the best of it. Or abort it, as discussed above. If you really can't deal with what your head is providing to you -- get out. No reason on earth to suffer for hours when there are medications that will within 30-60 minutes shut the whole thing down. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by chrismo on May 25th, 2003, 7:44pm Paragate - Are you just referring to sedatives and what not or are you hinting at something else? If so, im kind of curious as to what. thanks - Chris |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 8:56pm Paragate, Quote:
Sorry dude but this was no good thing, we can debate who did what and when forever but the fact remains that this was no little overdose, or just an amateur freaking out situation. The street I refer to is any street anywhere, doesn’t make any difference. I would like to see your reaction if you went through the hell I went through, I have a feeling you might change your mind at least a little bit about the subject, if not, then you must be Superman in disguise, come to think of it, a cluster headache would have been like a holiday in comparison. I have left the building, Lee |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by oringkid on May 25th, 2003, 9:23pm Number one, let me say, I have never tried shrooms. Only reason, I am scared of puking! LOL BUT! I can relate to all of this. What you experienced Flash was an uncontrolled panic attack. There are many things that will trigger these and hallucenogenics are just one. Panic attacks are incredibly scary even if you have not done anything to trigger one. I have suffered from them for many years. The problem is that when you do an hallucenogenic substance, you have very little control over your ability to focus your thoughts. Therefore the "snowball" effect takes over. Everything you described (aside from hallucenations that others described) points toward panic attack (or anxiety attack) It is VERY hard to fight against your own, almost sub-conscious, thoughts even with no help from other substances. I do agree (on this one post) with MichaelC in that one of the best "remedys" for a panic attack is to "go with it" I used to take Xanax for my panic attacks (an excellent anti-anxiolitic (not sure if this is correct term, LOL) -- no side effects or extreme lethargy or hangovers (in my experience) but as is with most of this ilk, it can be addictive. So I went on the net and found out how to deal without drugs. One of the first things recommended was to "go with it" don't fight it as Pinksharkmark advised. The second basically goes with the other things that MichaelC wrote... telling yourself what it is. In other words basically analyzing your feelings/emotions as if you were an outside observer. Not as easily done as said I must admit...especially when you are under the influence of a pyschotropic drug, which inhibits your ability to organize and control your thoughts. So, what I do when my thoughts run wild and rampant, is do a specific task to divert and try to control my thoughts. Such as cleaning (which helps in keeping the body moving, which in turn helps to keep the mind from turning in and focusing on itself) or getting involved in an intellect intensive task. Not something too easy or your mind will continue with the unpleasant thoughts. It needs to be something engaging. I once did some acid..alone..and unfortunately my friends weren't really into talking or coming to my house at 2 AM! LOL so... I have this thing that we got from some catalog that has all the portraits of the presidents of the u.s. (up to Nixon I think) Individual pieces of paper with lots of vital statistics. I laid them out in order on my living room floor... then using the vitals I began to try to calculate how old each president was when he died. Now, keep in mind, that the best distraction is one that is either semi-mindless and makes you move, like cleaning... or something that involves numbers. What you are trying to do here is put emotion on the back burner. Thinking of people or emotions is a no, no if you are trying to abort a panic attack, cuz that kind of thought is what it thrives on. People = emotion Emotion= fear etc. One thing I keep in mind is that "I have been through this before, I will be ok in a while" Another easier said than done, but you would be suprised that when used as a sort of chant, how well it can work. Now if you have not been through it before... it is less effective. Basic panic attack symptoms: An all over unfocussed feeling of fear. Nausea. An overwhelming claustrophobic feeling (I gotta get out of here!!) Rapid or heavy heartbeat. Dry mouth. All over muscle contraction. Extremity of thought. Paranoia. Chest pain (in some cases) a feeling of impending doom. And all for no apparent reason (in other words, no one or nothing is actually and obviously threatening your life) Ok, whew! This is all from my limited experience and from seeing definite correlations in Flash's (and others that have posted) experiences. Take what you need or what applies and leave the rest. As to potency and a "pill", I'm not so sure that would help all that much.. as one of you said (can't find who now) what might be perfect for one person could be way too much for another. I too, would like to say Well done! to Flash for bringing the "raw" side to light as well as the beneficial. I, for one, hope that someone could point me in a direction for 100% guaranteed "no puking or feeling ill" while doing this treatment, cuz I think it looks like the one thing that has the most benefits and the least detrimental side effects in battling the beast. Sorry this was so long, but it intrigued me, and I don't get on here as often as I used to. Thank you all! And Ozzy...man (whatever) Sorry, but these people are quite intelligent and that kind of statement unfortunately merely shows that you haven't done your homework. Sherry |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 10:41pm Quote:
What does this mean? Is any type of sexual cybersex good for U? |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by brain_cramps on May 25th, 2003, 10:55pm Lee: STFU!!! |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by forgetfulnot on May 25th, 2003, 11:23pm Dude, Sheri can do her one on one dealing, I was just seeing if she was still awake, I am sure she knows I was a lust jocking around . ok Sherri? Lee |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by oringkid on May 25th, 2003, 11:59pm Try one more variation Lee...Sherry, with a "y" and you will have it right LOL And to answer your question (although I can't figure what might have led to it) I don't cyber. Only the real thing for this gal. ;D my aside to ozzy..etcman was based on his question "ever thought that psychedelics might be the cause of your ch's" Sherry (with a Y) ;) ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Snappy on May 26th, 2003, 4:09am Shrooms? Hmmmm :-/ I never would have thought of that :o I tried a little of this and that when I was much younger than now. But never as a med ::) Wish I had some now :'( Dag-nab-it >:(, not likely to find them here in Taiwan. Anyway, I would still like to ask how do they work on clusters, and if shrooms work, would LSD work too ??? Ya got to ask yourself man. is there any link between LSD and clusters ??? I droped a lot of Acid when I was a kid, but quit before my clusters started. I mean think about it, from ergot we get LSD, and from ergot we also get ergotamine or cafergot. Maybe it is just another mechanism to control the neurotransmission ot seritonin or whatever, but if it works, I think that is very cool. I am three weeks into my current cycle, and I'm exhausted. Peaking with 6-7 CH per day at K7 & K8, for 1.5 to 2.0 hrs. I do not have any access to Imitrex injections :-[, which totally sucks, but I am having some luck with the cafergot. It only pulls them down to about a K3. So I wonder ???, how do the shrooms work? Where can I learn more about psilocybin. "Blue Honey"? ketchy :) Good luck Flash, the Mantra is really a good idea if you are trip-in out. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by tommyD on May 26th, 2003, 6:20am Snappy - Yes, psilocybin and LSD work. Best case, one or two small doses, barely enough to get high, will prevent an entire cluster cycle. More difficult cases, such as chronics dealing with a bad case of the beast, may need several stronger doese, though most agree it is not necessary to trip hard enough to meet God or any of her cousins. Some folks have no luck at all, but the success rate seems to be somewhere above 80 percent. Other hallucinogens, those whose molecule includes an indole ring, may also work, but we have had the most experience with shrooms and acid. For more info: The Clusterbusters FAQ: http://home.attbi.com/~rwold350/ The Clusterbusters website: http://www.geocities.com/ClusterBusters2002/ The Clusterbusters web site has an archive of a couple years worth of discussions and reports. And look for recent threads here on the meds message board. My standard warning: this is not for everyone. Folks with some kinds of mental problems should not take hallucinogens. Some common cluster medications will block the effects, and at least one (Lithium) may "enhance" the psychedelic experience (you might meet God witout an appointment). Do the research and consider carefully. Note that the Clusterbusters recommend purchasing spores (legal in most states and many countries - don't know about Taiwan) and growing your own mushrooms (not legal, but easy to keep quiet about). This avoids the hazards of street drugs and dealers, and of misidentification of wild shrooms, or waiting for them to come into season. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by paragate on May 26th, 2003, 11:01am I'll post this in success with shrooms as well, but just wanted to say I got hold of a very small amount of shrooms yesterday and followed the Rx -- taking a very small dose. Shadow? Gone. No HA last night or this morning. I'll probably repeat again in 4-5 days, but hopefully the days in between won't be too bad. Chris: What I was talking about with my reference to aborting a trip that is stronger or not as much fun as you would like is to two classes of drugs: first, there are the benzodiazepines, which at lower doses can calm and quiet things down for you and at higher doses can pretty much abort. You need the faster acting ones, like atavan or xanax, and I suggest taking sublingually for faster effects. The other class are the atypical antipsychotics, especially seroquel and olanzapine (zyprexa). Both can stop a trip dead in its tracks, usually within 30-60 minutes. Neither has the side effects of older antipsychotics, such as halperidol, which can cause severe and sometimes permanent neuro-muscular problems in some individuals. They are used to treat schizophrenia, psychoses of various kinds, and bipolar disorder. Lee, I guarantee you I've had at least as terrifying a time as you did this last go round. I've experienced my own death, including the burial and decomposition of my body while "I" was still in it. I've encountered horribly terrifying demons and other beings. Etc., etc. I've had the most terrifying experiences of my life on psychedelics. But each time I learned from the experience, and each time I eventually was able to remember the key: just go with it, be an observer, don't get deep involved, it's only a head-trip. Still, in each case I spent from 1-2 or even 3 hours scared out of my mind before I could recall and follow those simple instructions. Anyway, I'm really sorry you had a bad time of it, and this message board really isn't the appropriate place to be debating these things. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by jminmilwaukee on May 29th, 2003, 2:16pm I too have had the experience of ingesting a bit much of a batch that was WAY STRONG. When I relized that I was getting way too high, I went to my bedroom, shut the door, turned off the lights and TV and layed back on my bed (more like flopped onto my back). It was a bit scary at first but I just told myself three things. 1. It will pass, It always does. 2. You cannot OD on shrooms. People do not die from them unless they do something really stupid. 3. Relax and try to enjoy. While kicking back I actually left my body for awhile, met god a few times and saw the most amazing display of colors on the inside of my eylids. Guess what, it did pass - I did not OD - I did somewhat enjoy it and I also found out the the universe and god are pretty cool in person. :D Having said that it is very clear to me that 1 - It is not for everybody! 2 - You MUST be in a great state of mind! 3 - You MUST NOT panic! 4 - If you are afraid of it at all DO NOT DO IT! I also have to reiterate that all batches MUST be tested with a small amount first. This batch was actually from the same source so I thought I was ok with the amount but - BLAMMMMO - what a fucking trip. Anyway, this treatment did wonders for me and has been a huge relief for others. Please do not even think about it though if you are not ready. Our goal is to get this into a prescription form that can truelly be taken in SURE doses. PFD's all * I know I show as a newby but I have actually been around this site for more years than most * |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by _Binger on Jul 25th, 2003, 5:17pm When eating the mushrooms, I highly, highly, highly recomend the herb skullcap. Try one tea spoon in one cup of boiling water and let it steep for 30 min. This is also one of the few types of tea I would not worry about drinking 3-4 cups. I first heard of Skullcap in a book on hallucinogens, and the author was saying he never takes psylocyibin mushrooms without skullcap tea. Skullcap is an anti-spasmodic, diuretic, sedative, and I have read of it being good for different types of nervous conditions, general insomnia, and American Indians supposedly used it to promote menstruation. (Sorry I'll try and get back on subject) I personally have found it to be amazing for anti-anxiety while on the mushy's, without sedating to much (Can still think and move). I also wanted to reiterate something posted earlier--You can not O.D. on mushy's--They are completly non-toxic. Sometimes a good idea is to write yourself a note reminding yourself how you really are going to be fine and slip it in your pocket----By the way-- for my CH's I go for a little more than 2 grams, but once a year I go for a recreational dose of about 10, so yes, you really will be fine. Okay, I'm done now, good luck everyone. LOL-------Binger |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by OwieMan on Jul 28th, 2003, 4:27pm I knew there was going to be at least a few people that "overdosed" on these things. My definition of of overdose when talking about psychedelics does not pertain to body, but mind. I have seen many overdoses and while most are harmless "brain teasers" some can be quite nasty.. I've seen people do the DUMBEST things under the influence of psychedelics and I must say that I dont think the dangers are being preached enough here. I really do think there should be more warnings... I've had a friend that had after affects of a bad trip that lasted for a year at least.l..He wasnt "tripping", but he had some seeds planted in his brain during a bad trip that became part of his subconciense. Aliens were in control of the rave scene and me and another friend were co-conspirators to take over the brains of all the kids. (rare case) THEY CAN MAKE YOU CRAZY EVEN IF THEY DONT KILL YOU Me personally, I have taken ounces(not at the same time) of very strong mushrooms and have eaten hundreds of doses of LSD with no bad side effect(at most of 8 at a time)...Except for a weird sense of humor... People can and do "LOSE IT" under the influence of said drugs. Ive seen people freek out on very low doses and others roll with very large doses with hardly a missed word. |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 29th, 2003, 10:58pm on 07/28/03 at 16:27:45, OwieMan wrote:
Maybe, since you made up your own definition, you should make up a new word for it at the same time. on 07/28/03 at 16:27:45, OwieMan wrote:
And when he did his trip that caused this.....was he on 8 hits of acid, 10g of shrooms, a hit of "X" and an MAOI to enhance the effects? Do you know what he took..? Everything? on 07/28/03 at 16:27:45, OwieMan wrote:
I imagine you have with the amounts of drugs you and your friends take. on 07/28/03 at 16:27:45, OwieMan wrote:
Maybe you should stay away from the rave scene. Do any "X" lately along with the hits of acid and shrooms and ...and..? I've heard of more people hallucinating on prescribed doses of Sansert than I have people hallucinating on the dosages of psilocybin that are suggested to treat clusters. You probably have a great collection of music...can I borrow it sometime? PF |
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Title: Re: Disaster with Shrooms Post by JDH on Jul 30th, 2003, 10:02am on 07/29/03 at 22:58:04, Pinkfloyd wrote:
;D too funny! Jim 8) |
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