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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> potential cluster remedy
        
(Message started by: spinster on Apr 12^th, 2003, 2:13am)

Title: potential cluster remedy
Post by spinster on Apr 12^th, 2003, 2:13am

Dear Cluster Sufferers:

Thought to pass along a treatment that has eliminated my cluster headaches so far...
I started getting clusters my last year in college (heavy drinking contribution?) and have gotten them for about 2 months every year except 1 or 2 years for the past 8 years or so. I get them fairly bad I think. During the 2 month period will get anywhere from 4-10 per week. Terrible, want to die, sort of pain each time.

Anyway, last spring about 1 1/2 months into a cluster episode, I decided to give acupuncture a try. The acupuncturist did some tests and told me my `wood` energy was too high or low (can`t remember) and that this energy was strongly linked to the liver. Considering this I noticed at the time that I seemed to be bloated and that my intestines were functioning slowly. I wondered if indigestion somehow related to the liver was involved. So I decided to take a Chinese herbal therapy called `Chinese Tiao He Cleanse` that my girlfriend`s mom happened to have (it`s sold by Nature`s Sunshine - I have no connection to them though they have some sort of MLM scheme you end up getting hooked into if you buy their products). My clusters stopped after a few days on the product, which causes big-time diarrhea and increased intestinal activity if you take the recommended dose. I never knew whether this abrupt stoppage was coincidence or not.

This spring I started to get the little pain sensations that herald a new cluster episode and cause fear and depression. I happened to be in Brazil without the above Chinese cleanse around so started taking `Boldo`, a popular herb from the chilean andes that`s supposed to stimulate the liver and digestion and is often used as a tea for nausea, stomach upset. It seemed to keep the headaches away for 3+ weeks. I kept getting little pain sensations, but nothing erupted into a full headache. When I got back to States I more than a month ago, I bought some more Chinese Tiao He Cleanse (as I heard chronically taking Boldo can cause hepatitis-don`t know if it`s really true) and have been taking it whenever I feel threat of a headache.

Anyway, I haven`t had anything close to a full cluster headache in the past several months after knowing for almost certain that they were coming on fast. I`m fairly convinced that these digestive meds are somehow aborting my headaches and that cluster headaches somehow involve the liver and/or digestion.

I`m currently a resident in general surgery, and if I had time would try to do a research project on the efficacy of these herbal digestives in treating clusters. Perhaps later, but in the meantime some of you may benefit from their use. Sincerely,

Spinster, M.D.

p.s. one thing that also previously gave me symptomatic cluster relief was an icebag to the forehead/eye area as well as saline drops in the stuffed up nostril.

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by amber on Apr 12^th, 2003, 12:35pm

Interesting and thanks for the tip :) Nice to know you like to share the good fortune!

I, however, have never been able to abort a headache with ice or saline...the just seem very convinced on staying with me.

Others have talked about chinese herbs, but most don't have success. There must be something in yours that works on your neurological system also. Anyways I hope it works for someone :)

take care
amber

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by Georgia on Apr 13^th, 2003, 12:51am

Spinster - That is very interesting. I am really glad that you found something that works for you. What are the ingredients in that cleanse? Do you think any kind of instestinal flush would provide the same results? I really hope you will someday do research on clusters.

Will you please keep us updated...let us know if it keeps working for you, if you try other cleanses, etc?

Peace and love,
Georgia

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by jmorgan52 on Apr 13^th, 2003, 4:16am

Hi Spinster

I could not resist replying to this. I have been trying to get people to try to detox liver and kidneys on a regular basis for over a year now. I discovered a detox product in South Africa called BE PURE when I was having a bad cycle last year and it broke the CH cycle in about 4 days. I have been totaly headache free for over a year now and put this down to doing a short one week detox every 3 months and trying to eat more fruit and veg and less dairy meat and wheat. It seems to work for me, but is not easy to keep up with long term. I find that when I go off the rails for a few months and start eating chocolate and junk food I start to feel sluggish and run down. A few days of the detox diet and I feel right as rain for months.

I have been flamed regularly by the likes of Ueli who keeps asking me to name the toxins that are causing the CH and are eliminated by the detox. As a doctor maybe you can help me here? That will maybe help to shut the critics of my method up and get more people to try it for themselves.

PS don't mention Chinese Medicine here - it seems strictly taboo!!!!

John

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by Mark C on Apr 14^th, 2003, 4:05am

http://www.quackwatch.org/

Knowledge is power. Proven scientific methods tend to carry more weight.

Good OUCH Article (http://www.clusterheadaches.org/library/hypothalamus/hypothalamic_activation.htm)

Main Entry: sci·ence
Pronunciation: 'sI-&n(t)s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin scientia, from scient-, sciens having knowledge, from present participle of scire to know; probably akin to Sanskrit chyati he cuts off, Latin scindere to split -- more at SHED
Date: 14th century
1 : the state of knowing : knowledge as distinguished from ignorance or misunderstanding
2 a : a department of systematized knowledge as an object of study <the science of theology> b : something (as a sport or technique) that may be studied or learned like systematized knowledge <have it down to a science>
3 a : knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method b : such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena."

Do not be so hard on the members of this MB who for years have been "experimented" on for many years because the medical community can do very little for CH victims. I was mis-diagnosed for the first 15 years of my CH. I have had at least three dozen "treatments" that had no positive effect and may have even been harmful. After suffering so much pain for so long some, no many people are "easy pickins" for scam artists. You must admit there are many people offering "remedys" that would love to seperate these people from their money. I am not trying to be adversial, but please try to understand our reluctance to embrace new but unproven treatments. On a final note, I dont care if you smoke dried banana peels naked on the front lawn, if it helps YOUR head..GO FO IT. We all have our own little ritiuals. Search the archives of this MB for much more on non-standard treatments, many of which HAVE been accepted by this community.

PFDAN's
Mark

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by Charlie on Apr 14^th, 2003, 5:30am

The ice bag makes sense. The rest of it is.....

Nuts.

Charlie

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by jmorgan52 on Apr 14^th, 2003, 7:22am

Hey Mark C, I do get your point and I for one have had about 40 years of trying out numerous medicines to get rid of my CH to no avail. I first heard the name cluster headache from my neurologist who finally diagnosed me in the early/mid 90's. It was several years later before he hit on actually something to stop the pain - namely the Imigran Injection.

I tried the Be Pure in desperation last year and it certainly worked for me and several others I know of. As for seperating people from their money the pharmaceutical industry is pretty good at that. In our currency a single shot of Imigran costs me around US$15-US$20 and comes out of my own pocket. I typically need to use around 20 shots for the really bad ones when they strike, which adds up to big bucks for me.

The 4 week detox program cost me half the cost of a single Imigran shot, so it was a no-brainer to try it as nothing else apart from Imigran has ever helped me and this costs me a fortune every time I am in cycle, not to mention what else it does to the body long term. And as for this method being new it is probably pretty ancient, and there is masses of information available on detoxification. Early on during the detox process I had the shits, pimples on the skin, sweating, nausea, various aches and pains and other flu-like symptoms, but after a week or so they went away leaving me feeling really "alive" and full of energy. Best of all no more headaches.

I say again that all the pollutants, chemicals, preservatives, additives we ingest (whatever the fuck they are called) cannot be doing us much good, and assisting the body to eliminate them makes some sort of sense to me, especially if they may be contributing to these damn headaches.

John

Title: Re: potential cluster remedy
Post by ave on Apr 25^th, 2003, 3:15pm

Since I have some time on my hands - very rare - I'll try talking to you, jbmorgan.
If you could listen it would be a great boon.

Here is the well documented story about a vet who found the way to cure mastitis in cows.

As an experiment, just like that, he injected the swollen teats with distilled water. And it worked!! It even worked again and again.

Then one day he ran out of distilled water and in desparation he injected the teat with ordinary water. AND IT WORKED!! Again and again.

He told it to the veterinarian world and that world got curious. and instead of taking him at his word, they tested it all over again. And yes, it worked.

But they went further. They tried injecting nothing, just air, into the infected teat. And that also worked.

So the vet and the scientists, by NOT taking the first result for granted (and sticking to it religiously), established that it was the injecting and not the stuff injected that affected the cure.

Before one can prove a cure, one needs to have ALL the facts. That is why Ueli and others will continue to attack anyone who will not support a claim with all the facts, and will not try to find alternative causes for randomly observed results.

So don't say, hey, there are these toxins and they cause clusters and my method chases them out; say rather which toxins, and how the method gets rid of them, and which of the contents of this digestive "wash" does the chasing, precisely. THOSE are facts. Andf if you don't have them, don't claim too much just yet.

I wish you clarity in abundance