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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Chinese Acupuncture
        
(Message started by: ch_nic on Mar 24^th, 2003, 10:58am)

Title: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by ch_nic on Mar 24^th, 2003, 10:58am

My cluster headaches came back to haunt me the week after Feb 14. I went to see my doctor and he prescribed me with Prednisone (that worked for my 3 years ago when my last CH attacked) for 3 weeks. The frequency had reduced but still there were some that got through in the middle of the night.

Running out of options I went to see a Chinese doctor who specializes in Acupuncture. He put needles on the left (that is where my CHs attack me always) of my face, neck and had me sleep for 30mins for my first session. I napped and took some Chinese natural herbs... I haven't had my CHs for 6 consecutive days already.

Although I don't know if my CH period had ended or it's the magic of the doctor that helped me. I want to say that I did feel relief after seeing the doctor. I can feel the spots that he had needles on me are the places that can give me relief (back of my neck - usually, and another spot on my cheek that I can tell it is tied to the nerve of my pain.

I will not say that this is the cure but I do recommend it. The doctor who treated me had 30+ years of Chinese Acupuncture experience. That's why I went and more importantly there is no side effects, I still think it's worth a try.

I'll see him for my second session today. :)

P.S. There is no pain when he put the needles on me.

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by terrylch on Mar 26^th, 2003, 5:11am

Congratulations !!!
For your sake, I hope they stay away forever. I am curious as to the location on the back of your neck that they did the acupuncture. I realize it is hard to explain a spot with words, but please try.
thanks, terry

PS. Please keep us posted on the length of time you are pain free.

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by Ueli on Mar 26^th, 2003, 10:02pm

on 03/24/03 at 10:58:29, ch_nic wrote:

I will not say that this is the cure but I do recommend it. The doctor who treated me had 30+ years of Chinese Acupuncture experience.

Even if your 6+ day remission is due to acupuncture, your recommendation is somewhat futile.
The meridians and the chi flowing in them (and manipulated by the needles) are like the Emperor's new clothes: only the believers can see them. Even if your acupuncturist was willing to disclose his trade secrets, he could not communicate them to his colleagues, as the exact points can not be described and only a guess educated by 30 years experience can be made. Even if an other clusterhead went to your acupuncturist, by the elusiveness of the correct point, a repetition of the cure would not be guarantied.
BTW, how many clusterheads has he treated in 30+ years, with or without success?

PFNADs
Ueli

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by subluxationskill on Mar 26^th, 2003, 11:26pm

Ueli,
You are the most close minded atrocity I have ever met online. Here is an individual who sufferes with ch and instead of inquiring about her success you try to shoot down her experience. What in the hell do you believe in anyway? You are brainwashed into one way of thinking. I bet you are a real miserable individual. Control freak. Does this sound like you. Have to be in control? Please tell me what your belief systems are. I already know you are an allopathic idiot. tell me what in the hell are all the meachanisms of all the poisons u put in your body for your ch's? Does imitrix or any of the other drugs you take or any of the other peoploe on here take work the same for each individual. Is it scientifically reproducible? Do you know what all the side effects are of those drugs? The long term effects of them on your body? YOu make me sick. If you were interested in truly helping peole you would inquire about their experiences and what ahs helped. If it is outside of your comfort zone maybe you should investigate. it sounds like you think that medicine is somehow scientifically superior to chinese medicine and accupuncture. They are different systems. you cannot compare apples to oranges. i would rather have relief from needles thatn be a guinea pig to the next wonder drug that inevitably ends up causing more problems thatn it helped. OPEN YOUR pea brain PLEase!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enuf said

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by terrylch on Mar 27^th, 2003, 12:30am

Ueli,
You don't seem to like it when anyone comes to this web site and says that anything is working for them. You always have something nasty to say.

For someone with a tooth ache. maybe you should watch Dr. Phil, on TV. He would ask you ---

How is it working for you????

ch_nic,
Hang in there. Everyone here is not that rude.

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by jmorgan52 on Mar 27^th, 2003, 3:02am

I have no personal experience of Acupuncture or Chinese medicine, but all I can say is that regarding Ueli you are farting against thunder if you think he will ever agree with you. Don't waste your time on him on this subject.

I have had a year of him bashing my own personal CH cure which involved a month long detox process (I am sure this method would hold up well in Chinese medicine?).

Those who are willing to try any of the methods that have worked for us will do so regardless (or maybe not due to his constant poo-pooing) of what Ueli spouts forth. He is just one of several self appointed criticisers of anything but the what the pharmos or magic mushroom users put forward.

As for the snake oils he so vehemently hates saying they are all just money making scams, well he may be right in a lot of cases, but for me it is not about the money, it is about getting relief. If someone has found genuine relief from a method then it is probably worth a try.

I did not get relief or help from anything he has written to date apart from Imigran, which I already knew about.

But I am now a year TOTALLY PF from my detox cure, so (choose your own expletive) him.

John

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by amber on Mar 27^th, 2003, 10:53am

For me personally, I just don't understand why there is so much bashing about people finding a little peace in their life. Although I have seen it with other conditions.

Do cluster headaches define people? Does getting rid of them scare people? Sometimes it feels like if someone has a bit of good news in their life, others want to shut them down until they're depressed again. If it stops working for them, they'll figure it out, but until then, why not let them have their peace and quiet? It's enough to make someone not want to celebrate here ;)

I don't personally believe that acupuncture will be a permanent help for clusters. I believe that if you have other headaches, as many do (they often overlap from years of constant headaches..especially for chronics) then it will help you ease the pain of that one, but not the cluster. Having said that, if it's working, great...enjoy your happy time :)

Peace ;)
Amber

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by JDH on Mar 27^th, 2003, 3:56pm

IMHO Ueli is probably more knowledgeable about CH's than most Dr's I've met...actually all but one...and it sure as hell ain't you subluxationskill, lol.
Wait, you're not a real Dr your a chiro, right?
big difference!
I'm a bottom line kind of guy and that's what you get w/Ueli is the bottom line...'nuff said!

Jim

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by Mr.Happy on Mar 27^th, 2003, 4:57pm

Another fine example:

Quote:

Randy,
Thanks for the info on the O2. I have heard good results from it, but have not tried it yet.
I have directed you to one of the home pages for Reflexology. It was first recommended to me about 4 years ago. I have used it each time I have started a cycle of clusters. Each time I have found relief. Visit http://www.reflexology.org/
In the 1930's, Eunice Ingham, a therapist, further developed and refined the zone therapy into what is now known as foot reflexology. She observed that congestion or tension in any part of the foot mirrors congestion or tension in a corresponding part of the body. Thus, when you treat the big toes there is a related effect in the head, and treating the whole foot can have a relaxing and healing effect on the whole body.
Let me know if it helps you.

Not being judgemental......but....."...O2. I have heard good results from it, but have not tried it yet." That right there removed the sender from the Serious Contender category.

OK.......first I get my neck cracked, then I get jabbed full of needles, then I detox, then I get a Special Foot Massage (none of which is covered by my insurance company for some odd reason).
Once that's over -

Pass the Triptans, please......
RJ

PS. Still waiting for a Brown Apple Review (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1042916652). At least the price is right.

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by Ueli on Mar 27^th, 2003, 10:42pm

Oh Sub, thank you very much for the title of honor you gave me. The word 'allopathic' was invented by Hahnemann, the forefather of all snake oil pedlars, who used it in an attempt to ridicule those that opposed his twisted homeopathic ideas.

Luxi, my belive system centers on allopathy, the medical practice which aims to combat disease by the use of remedies which produce effects. Effects that have a sound scientific foundation, have been proved by large scale double blind studies. In contrast to this the believers in 'natural' remedies, like subluxationskill, terrylch or jmorgan52 base their believe system on shaky, scientifically unsound and unproven theories and take a few fortuitous success stories - usually due the self healing powers of the body - as evidence for the validity of their crank theories. Needles to mention, every unsuccessful outcome is never mentioned and swept under the carpet.

It also looks like the believe in some crazy theory causes a serious lack in reading skill. Or is it that congenital dyslexia causes a vulnerability for believing in scam cures? Either way, what is so bad about doubting that a 6 day remission is the result of some needle work, and warning other sufferers of the fact that acupuncture 'success stories' have never been proved to be transferable. If we knew if the reported 'cure' was the first of a kind or one of many in a 30+ year career of healing it would help us tremendously to decide if we should try the same path. Sorry, but I am not prepared to believe in a one case statistic of 100% success, if I don't hear about a lot more positive results, and the negative ones also included.

Luxi asks: "Does imitrix or any of the other drugs you take or any of the other peoploe on here take work the same for each individual. Is it scientifically reproducible?" The answer to your question is YES, and you could easily find it on this message board and its archives, if only you could pay a little bit attention to spelling and put 'Imitrex', not 'imitrix', into the search engine.

Another quote from Sub: "it sounds like you think that medicine is somehow scientifically superior to chinese medicine and accupuncture.", Yer completely right, modern medicine is based on a sound scientific foundation, the Chinese hanky panky is founded on centuries old concepts that have since been overruled by knowledge accumulated in the mean time. See my Why Do I Not Believe In Chinese Medicine (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1036479389).

Finally, click here (http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html) to see Sublux at work, together with a short biography. ;D

I'm through with feeding the troll. Sublux, go fuck yourself!

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by Jarvis on Mar 27^th, 2003, 11:53pm

Ueli - I am not going to even pretend I have in depth knowledge on this stuff but. I do know this, many hospitals in the U.S. including the overated Mayo clinic are now using and offering alternative therapies in many applications from pain management to cancer treatments. These include acupuncture, reflexology, detoxification, electric stimulation (derived from acupuncture) etc. etc... Most insurance companies now accept chiropractics as a bonafide therapy for "some" things. There is renewed and vigorous research being conducted with chinese medicines, from therapies to drugs. Cant personally say any of this stuff helps clusters, nor can I say that most meds mentioned on this site have had benefit to me, but one can only hope that some day something will come from this to benefit both you and I. In the meantime I sincerely appreciate your posts and insights as well as others here. .....mj..

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by ch_nic on May 20^th, 2003, 10:03am

I didn't know that my post had generated so much interest.

I am happy to say that I've been pain free for 2+ months already. But I have to say that this may not be related to the acupuncture that I have received because the pain duration was about to end around that time.

I only went to see him 2 times. Frankly as a Chinese myself I don't really like him as he showed me that he cares about me less than the $ he received. I'm ashamed of him. >:(

About Chinese medicine, people may doubt its usefulness. I cannot deny that as I have not used Chinese medicine for the past 23 years. It's been around for more than 7 dynasties and farmers were the ones who were best at it. Remember, there were no doctors back then who can offer pills or drugs 2000+ years ago. (Actually Chinese medicine is nothing more than natural plants, you only need to find the right now. There are poisonous ones that are inedible, but can be used over wounds for blood-stopping)

Now even universities in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan offer degrees for this practice just as regular doctors. Recently in Hong Kong, Western doctors cannot figure how to reduce the power of SARS where Chinese medicine seems to have success, especially when it's combined with western medicine, although the doctors cannot recommend citizens doing so because mixing drugs IS DANGEROUS.

I know it's a matter of belief and I have my doubts also. My point is that since it's all natural you may want to have a try...

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by brain_cramps on May 20^th, 2003, 11:07am

ch_nic:

About 12 years ago, I tried acupuncture for CH. The relief was immediate. Unfortunately, so was the end of the relief. For about a week, when I got hit, I would call his daughter/translater and take a cab over to his office during the day or his 'mansion' at night. Afterwards, I would have to take a cab home. Not long after I started this treatment, I found I was getting hit on the way home (less than 20 minutes relief).

The Chinese 'doctor' had 45+ years of experience, but seemed more interested in my financial situation than my well-being.

All in all, I found it hard to justify taking a $25 cab ride to his place, $50 for 1/2hr treatment, and another $25 for a cab ride home, especially when getting hit within 20 minutes. $100 for 20 minutes relief - hardly what I'd call effective treatment. (Yes, I understand that he only received $50.)

If it works for you, that's great.

BTW - For more than 5 years now, I have been med-free. Off the start, it was not easy (BIG understatement!). But as time went on my cycles shrank from 6-8 weeks, down to 2.5 weeks for my last cycle. (SHIT! I can do 18 days of this torture med-free 'standing on my head' if it means that the cycles will stay at 18 days or get even shorter!)

Good luck,
grant

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by paragate on May 22^nd, 2003, 5:01pm

I've had really great results using TCM, including acupuncture, for a variety of problems. But alas, though I have one of the best TCM practitioners on the East Coast, he's been able to do nothing for my clusters. Tension headaches? Absolutely instantaneous and lasting relief. Muscle spasms? Same. Even a nasty sinus infection once that several rounds of antibios couldn't cure, he cured with one acupuncture session and several days of drinking a really smelly nasty tasting concoction. The acupuncture opened my sinus cavities right up and the herbs drained and dried them out and killed whatever nasty was occupying them. I wish he could work that magic with my clusters, but no dice.

But hey, if it works for you, that's a good thing, right?

Title: Re: Chinese Acupuncture
Post by jonny on May 22^nd, 2003, 6:16pm

on 03/27/03 at 00:30:09, terrylch wrote:

Ueli,
You don't seem to like it when anyone comes to this web site and says that anything is working for them. You always have something nasty to say.

Terry,

You come here and pray that someone gets chronic CH so who the FUCK are you to talk about anything on this FUCKING website?

Where do you get off bad mouthing Ueli and you turn around and say that if god didnt see that I was chronic you would be praying for me to be chronic?

You and your word are SHIT on this site in 99% of the people here so why dont you hold your fucking opinion on anything.

You fucking low life fucking scumbag!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its on m*th*rf**k*r, it is on!!!!

....................................jonny