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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> the water treatment
        
(Message started by: Gilbert on Mar 16^th, 2003, 10:40am)

Title: the water treatment
Post by Gilbert on Mar 16^th, 2003, 10:40am

In my CMH period for the past 3 weeks, I finally started the water treatment for the last 5 days, and I have to admit that it helps a lot. I still get hit almost every evening/night but they either don't last or don't go over level 2 or 3. Has anyone else had good results with the water treatment?
Good luck to all of you!

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by Marty_mar on Jun 14^th, 2003, 11:07am

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No I have not tried the water tech. yet but i have heard alot about it.http://URL[s][/s]TEXT[font=Verdana][/font]

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by eyes_afire on Jun 14^th, 2003, 11:17am

Hi Gilbert. If I drink a helluvalot of water immediately, sometimes I can shorten my shadowtimes. I've never aborted full blown CH with water, but that's probably because at that point I'm scrambling to the oxygen tank to put the mask on.

So I say: 'yes, water is GOOD... lots of it'

--- Steve, one of many...

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by cbolony on Jun 14^th, 2003, 11:21am

Marty mar click on the left message baord scroll down to you see Technical Problems for the Webmaster click on it
there you try some of the stuff you want to do. And if you make a mistake nobody is going to see it.Been there a lot of times when i try to post picture and all i was getting a box with a x in it :)

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by tommyD on Jun 15^th, 2003, 7:57am

Gilbert -

I've had good luck with the water treatment, both as preventative and abortive. I have a relatively mild case of the clusters (one, sometimes two attacks a day, none above a Kip 8) and half to a whole gallon a day seems to reduce intensity & frequency.

Clusters or not, it's a good idea to drink a half gallon of water a day to stay healthy (if it has caffeine or alcohol in it, it doesn't count, so coffee, tea, Pepsi and beer are out).

And I found if I chug down at least a full quart of cold water at the first sign of an attack, I can abort two out of three attacks in five to ten minutes.

I used the shroom treatment to kick the Beast out of my head, and water also helps to reduce the left-over shadows and minor attacks (Kip 3-4) left in the wake of the shrooms.

-tommyD

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ab15 on Jun 16^th, 2003, 8:32pm

I also find that drinking a lot of water helps during my cluster. It wont abort an attack, but it does help keep the shadows at bay while I am on preventatives.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ijunG4 on Jun 19^th, 2003, 8:54am

I know drinking lots of water is generally considered healthy. But as far as specific, direct impact on avoiding, aborting, or minimizing actual CH attacks or shadows, I have a theory that it might not necessarily be so much the fact that it is water, but actually the cooling effect inside the body.

Water works to draw some heat away from inside the head as you're drinking, but this is not the most efficient method, which would explain why lots of water is needed to notice an effect. The water in the stomach also has a small effect in reducing the body temperature.

One way to know for sure is for someone to experiment using hot water (maybe herbal tea, if plain hot water is unpalatable?) vs. ice-cold water vs. lots of ice-cold skim milk (the best non-water drinkable liquid I could think of).

I can't do this effectively myself, since water doesn't seem to do a heck of a lot for me in the first place.

It would be nice to know if the temperature of the water has a greater effect relative to the volume consumed. Of course, the results may vary by individual.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ave on Jun 19^th, 2003, 4:06pm

Don't forget, if you take medication the water treatment may be counter productive. Some meds are being washed out of the body like THAT.

Herbal teas are all right, but take care there is no salt in the beef tea otherwise the water will be largely contained in the body and you bloat...

Lastly, never tried the water treatment for clusters (O2 still works well) but I did use it to help lose weight. Warm tea worked great.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by tommyD on Jun 22^nd, 2003, 7:29am

ijunG4 -

Actually, that is my own completely uninformed theory as to why I can abort attacks with water. Dumping all that cold water down my throat cools the blood specifically in the carotid artery, perhaps triggering a contraction of that blood vessel and relieveing pressure on the trigeminal nerve. ...I guess.... and I think that big slug of cold water in the stomach caused blood to be redirected away from the head in the body's attempt to warm and otherwise deal with at water.

Understand, I drink AT LEAST a quart at the first sign of an attack, and I drink it as quickly as possible -- never timed it but seems like less than 90 seconds. Some folks might find chugging a lot of cold water quickly will result in the water coming back up again, but that was never a problem for me. Even as a kid, on the hottest of days, mom would warn..."just take sips or it will make you throw up." But I found I could ignore her with impugnity (on this issue) and get away with it...

How much does the water temperature matter? Not sure. I try to keep refrigerated water available at all times -- I'm guessing the temp is between 38 and 44 degrees. But I have successfully used water that is much warmer, say 55 to 60 degrees. But consider that the blood is at 98-99 degrees, that is still a 40-degree temperature differential.

But the cooling idea doersn't seem to relate to why water can work as a preventative...or does it?

just guessing,

-tommyD

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ijunG4 on Jun 24^th, 2003, 2:39pm

tommyD,

Hey, I'm glad someone actually agrees with my theory!
At least your "uninformed" is much more informed than my guess.

Thanks to your earlier post and feedback, I started taking the water treatment more seriously now (also starting to run out of Imitrex), and for the first time in my life (dealing with CH for 18 years) I was actually able to ABORT an attack drinking 2 cold glasses of water!!! (Note: I also had a "Be Koool" cold patch on my neck)

I have thought about the temperature/preventative aspect myself. Maybe the water itself is fundamentally helpful, but the temperature differential is an added bonus?

There is a lot of untapped potential here, I think. What better way to stop CH if the right kind of water therapy would do the trick!

iJunG4 (must upgrade to G5 now...)

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by Stately on Jun 26^th, 2003, 8:52pm

Newbie here,
An old soldier to CH suffering though...I found your website not to long ago, but everytime I have tried reading or posting I have gotten another CF. Hoping I can finish this one tho.
I started the "water treatment" at the beginning of this series of attacks....I work in an OR at a major University Hospital, so I asked around why they think it may or may not work...surprizingly none of there answers had to do with the temp of the water....but with the pressure on the inside of your head...it seems that hydrating a patient is an old time ER trick for Migraine sufferers...the space between your head and the membrane that holds your brain can have alot to do with aborting a migraine...if it is full of fluid...no headache...it seems the swelling can not start if it has no place to go...they gave me an example...on hot days playing sports or exersizing you can get that throbbing headache...they say it is directly caused by not enough fluid in that space between the skull and the brain...thats why drinking lots of fluids is important during exersize....a couple of them told me...when they had patients in the ER....they put them on a fast drip IV...and Oxygen...and they had alot of success with it.
(hope the above made sense, as I'm a terrible writer)
As for my own experence with the water treatment....I drink whatever is handy....have to admit that during CF attacks I become a caffiene junky....and love ice cold diet mt dew...or water joe (caffienated water). So I drink a 12 oz glasss of water followed by an ice cold caffienated beverage...on the onset of a CF...It might be a placebo effect...but it seems to work a quarter of the time...
I know the above was a long winded post....but just thought I would add something to the thread..
State

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by jmorgan52 on Jun 27^th, 2003, 4:08am

Welcome Stately,

Your theory sounds more plausible than many on the subject of the water treatment. I have not tried to abort a CH with the water treatment, but will give it a shot if (when?) I am back in cycle again. Drinking anything during a CH attack is generally a no-no for me as I often throw up if I do. I always thought of water treatment as a way to prevent or break the cycle of CH rather than abort.

John

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ijunG4 on Jun 27^th, 2003, 6:19pm

Stately--

Thanks for the theory. It makes perfect sense. After all, that's the way we're supposed to avoid hangovers too (at least when we are able to drink...).

I still think temperature does have a positive effect. After all, when I was able to abort, the CH was going away immediately as I was putting down my second glass. There's no way the water in my stomach could have been absorbed fast enough to affect the pressure inside the brain that quickly. It was a particularly resilient beast that night as well, so it was no fluke.

jmorgan--

Are you sure water can be used to break a cycle??? I've never been able to break my cycle using anything... water, steroids, or any other meds. I'd like to see someone post here who's been able to break cycle with just water. I find that a little bit hard to believe.

Jun

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by pablo on Jun 28^th, 2003, 9:30am

When I first found this website (a few days ago), I did a cursory read of The Water Treatment. I didn't pay much attention to it not because I didn't think it was valid, I was on information overload. :)

Yesterday evening I had a cycle start up and I slammed about eight ounces of water. I sat back down (my wife and I were watching The Pianist - great flick, disturbing though) to watch a movie. About five minutes later, the pain abated and about five minutes after that, aborted.

Last night around 12.30am, I had another hit. My wife was ready to 'stick me' (Hmmm, after all these years of me sticking her, guess it was her turn! heh heh!) and I slammed some more water. Again, in about five to ten minutes it had abated and then it was gone.

About ten minutes ago, another was starting up and again, I slammed about eight ounces of water and it's a dull 'plunk' at this moment; very tolerable.

A word of caution though, you _can_ drink too much water so you need to be careful. If you drink too much water, you dilute your electrolytes and this can be dangerous. See http://www.gpush.com/hyponatremia.html for more information.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by brewcrew on Jun 28^th, 2003, 11:42am

pablo - 8 ounces of water is one glass - about three gulps. Are you sure you meant 8 ounces? Nobody's electrolytes are going out of balance with one 8-ounce glass of water.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by ijunG4 on Jun 28^th, 2003, 1:00pm

On my successful abort, it only took 16-20 oz. of cold water. By the time I set down my 2nd glass, I knew it was already starting to abort rapidly, so I figured I didn't need to take more.

Since then, I've been trying to drink as much water as I can all day long, probably in the range of a gal. or more per day. Last night, I had an unsuccessful abort attempt with water (see general posts/BIG MISTAKE).

Pablo, thanks for the article on the dilution of electrolytes. The conventional wisdom makes it seem like lots of water is harmless, but I guess it's not. I'll quit drinking all this water for now, since it wasn't working to prevent anyway.

Now we know it's possible to OD on water; is it possible to OD on Gatorade?

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by pablo on Jun 28^th, 2003, 2:06pm

*** Brewcow, you're right, a single eight ounce slug of water isn't going to kill anyone. The recommended daily intake of fluids varies based on physical activity. For example, if the person/environment is sedentary/cool, then two to three liters daily. If the person/environment is active/warm, you're looking at five to ten liters daily. What I was addressing was this excerpt in The Water Treatment:

Quote:

The water treatment is very simple, yet tough to accomplish. It's a glass of water every half hour or at least every hour during the day. It's hard to drink that much water, but the more, the better.

And in fact, you can overdose on water as the link I showed shows. (Whoa, what a mouthful!)

I think it was last year, in Boulder Country at an Ecstasy Party a young woman died. The drug made her believe she was thirsty and she drank so much water that she overdosed on water. I believe that's what the ME concluded.

*** ijunG4: I think any electrolyte type of drink will help more than water. Again, if you're gonna slug huge quantities, I'd go that route. I start out with water than move on to something with electrolytes.

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by jonny on Jun 28^th, 2003, 3:08pm

Your all fucking crazy if you think this will abort a CH!!!!

But hey!, who am I to judge.....LOL

Keep peeing.....LMMFAO ;D

...............................jonny

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by tommyD on Jun 29^th, 2003, 11:58am

Well, I am crazy and I have aborted attacks by chugging cold water. Is it my imaginations? Maybe. But I don't care, long as I feel the Beast fade away in five minutes. And it's a helluva lot cheaper than Imitrex.

I have mentioned water as an abortive several times before, rarely heard any me too's from anyone else. So I figured it was just me. And I never spouted much about my half-assed temperature/blood redirection theory, 'cause it's just a wild guess, and as I said, it doesn't seem to work for very many.

Take it or leave it, but it works for me. Or at least it did when I was in cycle last.

And I will keep peeing...oh, yes indeed. Use water as preventative or abortive, you will pee. A lot. Makes it a little problematic when say, taking long road trips, or flights. Hit the airplane john too often, they start thinking you're building a bomb in there.

Good thoughts about electrolytes. Water-soluable vitamins too. I've heard it suggested those using the water treatment take a children's daily multi-vitamin, such as Flintstones brand, to keep from becoming vitamin-deficient.

-tommyD

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by Marc on Jun 29^th, 2003, 7:41pm

tommyD,

I've tried to abort by drinking cold water - like 2 qts of ice water in 5 minutes. It didn't help my CH......BUT, I think that your body temperature reduction idea is valid for me at least.

As the pain ramps up, I get really, really hot. I assume that it's adrenaline because my blood pressure shoots up making my head hurt worse.

I've posted this before - If I catch it EARLY I can sometimes abort by diving into the ocean which is 53-59 degrees year round here.

Maybe it's like Charlie's "warming of the hands" - re-directing blood flow elsewhere......dunno, but I know that cold helps me.

Marc

Title: Re: the water treatment
Post by pablo on Jul 1^st, 2003, 7:30am

I've had relatively good abortive response with the water treatment: six for eight. I aborted one yesterday afternoon and one this AM. I couldn't abort one Sunday nor Monday morning so I did the 1/3rd Imitrex injection trick - thank you for that gem! Down to one shot.

I've learned how to inject myself which isn't all that bad; I thought it would be. Frankly, when the pain is on full, a simple jab is somewhat, in a perverse way, welcomed.