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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Success with dextromethorphan, several theories:
        
(Message started by: MidnightObsidian on Feb 10^th, 2003, 6:42am)

Title: Success with dextromethorphan, several theories:
Post by MidnightObsidian on Feb 10^th, 2003, 6:42am

Main Points

I had personal success gradually terminating a cluster headache and almost entirely preventing chronic suffering for two months with 475mg of Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide.
I believe that there is much more to preventing cluster headaches than a selective serotonin antagonist
I believe there is a chemical correlation between the psychoactive effects of DXM and psilocilin, despite the mechanisms employed for reaching those effects

Please view the full version of what was too large to fit in this post here (http://www.ocbasketball.com/host/files/dxm.htm).

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by Hound_Dogg on Feb 10^th, 2003, 7:06am

I'm not even close to being a chemist...but I know DXM is chemically related to the Morphinan's (Morphine, Codeine) only it binds with the mu-opioid receptor, and not other opioid receptor's which give it the cough supressant qualities of Morphine, without the other side effects, I.E Euphoria, etc...Maybe this could be the reason for the analgesic effects of using such a strong dose. But achieving months of relief would not fall into that line of thinking.

Since it is also related to Ketamine, you may have struck on something...I would be interested to see how something like this could play out with a few years of research. But seeing how not much is being done with the Psilocybin, in terms of actual Pharmaceutical Industry research, whether it be because of the legality of it or the small clientele of CH sufferers, I don't see it happening in the near future.

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by MidnightObsidian on Feb 10^th, 2003, 8:19am

Dextromethorphan, by itself, doesn't have any direct opoid receptor binding qualities, like you said . It may be that the mu-opoid reaction that gave me the relief that I had felt once it started to kick in, or that could have just been the usual numbness in the euphoria that DXM causes (which most likely came from the pseudo-opoid properties to begin with).

Either way, I know that I felt better for quite a while afterwards, and like you said, it isn't from some kind of long-term mu-opoid agonist; if it was, I would have probably been euphoric for the entire two months. The agonistic properties for the PCP₂ receptors probably helped the pain numb out a bit, as well, but that wouldn't be long term. Process of elmination... woo.

I didn't know that the industry was doing research on psilocilin, by the way; I was still under the impression that they were having a hard time legally obtaining it because of its wonderful "Schedule I" status. (I'm new here, so I guess I have a bit of catching up to do.)

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by Hound_Dogg on Feb 10^th, 2003, 11:34am

Research Companies can do "Experiments" with Schedule "I" drugs....That being said, I don't know what the legal ramifications would be. I'm sure amounts are very small and most research is being done on the negative effects of the drugs, in order for the DEA to keep them on a "I" status. I haven't heard of any actual research (other then from people's personal experience) being done with Psilocybin and it's effects on Cluster Headache.

I would definitely do a search, of this site, on Psilocybin. There are a lot of posts on this subject. You may also try Dextromethorphan. Although I don't recall many posts on it. I definitely would look into it.

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by eyes_afire on Feb 10^th, 2003, 5:53pm

Hi Midnight. I believe a short while ago there was a small research study on the use of psilocybin for obsessive-compulsive disorder that's a much bigger market than CH). The way I see it, there are 2 main obstacles to research:

1. Government. As long as it is schedule I, there will be a ridiculous amount of red tape that would discourage most researchers from investing the time and money.

2 Money. Right now psilocybin would not be a profitable endeavor for drug companies. Drug companies put most of thier efforts into finding patentable meds to maximize profits. A drug company is not likely to invest in a product that can easily be grown in a pile of shit. The stockholders would not be impressed.

Thanks for the information. Welcome aboard. Ain't this place great?

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by pinksharkmark on Feb 19^th, 2003, 6:05am

You are not the first to report cluster relief from high doses of DXM. There was one poster on the old message board who posted one (or maybe two) message detailing his/her success with it, then never posted again. Sorry, but my crummy third world ISP is being cranky tonight, and it is a struggle to stay online long enough to even post these brief messages, let alone comb through the archives of the old message board. Perhaps someone else reading this thread could provide a direct link for you.

I have no theories as to the precise mechanism by which dextromethorphan might work its magic, nor any guesses as to what percentage of clusterheads might find relief from it. I DO know that it is something to be approached with extreme caution, since many over-the-counter preparations containing DXM also contain other medications which can be fatal if ingested in large quantities. Anyone wishing to pursue this line of experimentation had better be damn sure that whatever they are ingesting in order to obtain their high dose of DXM contains nothing else.

pinky

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by MidnightObsidian on Feb 19^th, 2003, 9:30am

The biggest one to look out for is "chlorophenramine maleate" which will cause seizuring, internal bleeding, bleeding out of ever orifice conceivable, and ultimately, death. Really, don't take anything with active ingredients other than dextromethorphan hydrobromide, because in elevated doses, most everything else is harmful.

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by gtar_man on Feb 20^th, 2003, 9:32am

...so I call my pharmacist, who says yeah, they can formulate DXM by itself in any strength as long as I have a prescription. Then I call my doctor who tells me that 475 mg is 5 times the recommended dosage and no, he won't do it...
Sigh. It's enough to give ya a headache...

Mike

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by MidnightObsidian on Feb 20^th, 2003, 12:45pm

Oh god, that would make me so happy to have prescription DXM pills. In a desperate search for an abortative a week ago, I bought three six-ounce bottles of Vicks44 and chugged one and a half of them. Just the smell makes me nauseous now, but if it works, I'll deal with feeling like I have to puke my guts out. I know that all of that heavy syrup can't be good for my kidneys and the alcohol isn't the best thing for my liver, but to be honest, I could care less about the damage it's doing to my body. I'm only seventeen and I have such a reckless desire to be rid of these headaches that I could care less if I'm slowly killing myself.

If I can find another doctor in my area, maybe I'll ask him to give me a prescription for something like 120mg pills of DXM. Then I'd just take four or five at a time.

Anyway, good luck with it. It's worth a try, if nothing else.

Title: Re: Success with dextromethorphan, several theorie
Post by Michel_L on Feb 20^th, 2003, 6:46pm

DM helped me sleep in some cycles but not this one.
A good source of DM is Balminil DM (3mg per ML) Dextrometorphan is the only active ingredient in this syrup...and it tastes real bad.
I don't know if it's available in the US.
Michel
Quebec