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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2003 >> Maybe not practical, but....
        
(Message started by: Dave_W on Jan 16^th, 2003, 1:02am)

Title: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by Dave_W on Jan 16^th, 2003, 1:02am

OK, fellow CH students, my suggestion may be goofy but it's only partly posed in fun. Perhaps there's a micro-mechanical way to accomplish this if it indeed is a worthwhile abortive method. I intend this for thinking and discussing only.

In olden years, before I (or my doctors) knew what these attacks were, I knew that I could get some very brief relief by compressing the throbbing artery in front of my right ear. During some really bad (10) headaches, I would often stand in front of the bathroom mirror (while throwing hot water on my face) with a razor blade in hand and try to convince myself that nicking that artery would reduce the pressure and make the pain stop. I never actually did it -- but I have a similar circumstance to report.

Last night, I had an attack start up and it was really coming on full force quickly. I blew my nose to make way for an Imitrex nasal spray, and due to a nasty cold I've been nursing I caused myself to have a short but vigorous nosebleed. Instant relief! Over the years I can count maybe as many as half a dozen such occurrences. In fact, one of the crazy-insane things I do when I have a 10 going and can't get it stopped is try to violently blow my nose in hopes it will bleed. I'm not often successful, maybe only two or three times in my life have I been able to draw blood but in each case it did the trick.

The theory here is that in letting out some liquid, the dilated vessels that are causing the pain must contract, even if it's just a little bit, which stops the pain. So here's the deal: why not tee into that main artery in front of our ear, and hang a tube out with a valve on the end? When the beast comes, open the valve and drain for a few seconds (maybe a teaspoon lost), close the valve, and go on about your business pain free.

There would be many benefits. No more chemicals, quick relief, and the surgery should be minor. Plus, we'd be able to pick out all of our fellow clusterheads on the street by virtue of the valve handles hanging out the sides of their heads.

I'd like to hear all thoughts, positive and negative (I'm fairly flameproof so don't hold back). Does anybody think that a real such option, in the form of a small mechanical shunt, might be worthwhile?

Here's to research! ??? ??? ???

Pain Free Days, all!!

Old Decrepit Dave_W

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by Ueli on Jan 16^th, 2003, 10:05am

LOL Dave,
Re-incarnation of the blood letting, popular 200 years ago. ;D

On the other hand, I know of a guy who claims to have ended two cluster cycles by applying 4 leeches (hirudus medicinalis) to his neck for a couple of hours, until they dropped by themselves when sated. In the case of leeches it may not be the loss of a small amount of blood but more the chemicals they inject to keep to flow running. Who knows....

Ueli

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by Kirsten on Jan 16^th, 2003, 10:28am

Yesterday I would have inserted the shunt by myself, and I do the blowing hard thing too, a leftover from when I thought it was a sinus headache. but, vascular shunts are loaded with problems. It is an easy path to the brain for infection, and any blood clots forming in the shunt could travel to the brain, heart or lungs for a stroke,. I do like the image though!

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by ave on Jan 16^th, 2003, 10:32am

Would those be anti-coagulents like they use for trombosis?

(Do we know anything about trombosis and clusterheadache ever occurring together? If they do, bang goes another nice theory out of the window.)

On the other hand, Dave, if you want to lose blood, why not become a blood donor. Who knows, it may help.
Save some lives while you are at it.

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by clavers on Jan 16^th, 2003, 11:27am

About a year or more I reported a peculiar incident on this web site. I was in the doctor's office and he had sent me to the lab for a blood test. As I sat and waited for the tech to get to me I started to get a bad CH. I had no imitrex or anything with me and I didn't know what to do. Then I was called into the lab, so I went and sat and the tech took three big tubes of blood. I immediately noticed that the CH had gone away. It just vanished while the blood was being drawn. A couple of people found this interesting, but others made jokes about vampires, etc. I am glad to read about your experience. I don't really know how this can be used, however, we can't cut a vein every time a CH comes on, but it is none the less interesting information.

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by jmorgan52 on Jan 17^th, 2003, 7:54am

I like this crazy idea. Maybe reducing the volume of blood in the system slightly has an effect on the pressure causing arterial dilation during CH.

Has anyone tried donating blood during a cycle? Any effect on CH?

I used to donate blood every 3 months or so for a short period in my 30's some 20 years ago, but stopped when they no longer required my blood for plasma. I had hepatitis/yellow jaundice as a kid so they can't use my blood for transfusions and they can manufacture plasma now without blood (so I was told).

I can't remember if I had any relief from CH in this corresponding period of my life, but I do know I had some fairly long HA free periods around this time. Last cycle I was wracking my brain trying to make an association with something I was doing differently during this time to be HA free but could not make any connection.

If I get another cycle I may just try and get them to take a pint from me and see if it has any effect.

John

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by dulus on Jan 29^th, 2003, 12:39am

I do remember a year or two ago reading a post on here about someone giving blood during a cycle and finding some relief. Have never tried this myself. One would think i'd have tried that by now, after all, it's free, and sure beats the hell out of sacrificing a chicken(can get messy, and doesn't help the CH much)

Dustin

Title: Re: Maybe not practical, but....
Post by bjordan4 on Jan 29^th, 2003, 2:53pm

I'm a believer that the pain is "caused" by a "sudden" change in blood flow. Not Blood Pressure...Blood Flow (Volume). Body temperature decreases slightly while my face becomes flushed, just before the onset of a CH. If body temperature decreases and pressure remains stable, blood volume must reduce. Blood pressure remains constant. (Took Blood pressure and Temp over several episodes...daily occurence for me over 3 years) The "loss" of blood volume results in reduced O2 levels at the pain region. Why it occurs in or on my left temple area is the unknown. This would explain Why Imitrex Injection works as well as Oxygen. Imitrex reduces blood flow. Additonally, the "sensation" that a CH is about to occur at any moment is ALWAYS present. It is a strange feeling....as if the body is saying, "you're not breathing correctly....breathe...breathe more."
CH is defnetly an atypical pain in the head. Perhaps a natural "valve" (as you relate to...) in the head or in-line with the arteries is misfunctioning or not present.
Heard of any talk about this?