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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> Detox, please will someone help?
        
(Message started by: Buster on Dec 17^th, 2002, 11:48am)

Title: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by Buster on Dec 17^th, 2002, 11:48am

As a chronic Cluster suffer, my doctor, a neurosurgeon, has me in a no HA cycle for the time being. In doing so, has me addicted to transdermal Duragesic patch, a Fentanyl based opiate. I'm up to 125 mch every 72 hrs. I started in 1999
It is time to quit the patch.
As i understand the program, i am to reduce the dosage to 100, 75, 50, then to 25 and off. Last night, my first night, I had stomach cramps, vomiting, diarrhea, and muscle twitch, and cramps, nerves on end and on and on. For those of you that can help, you know what I mean.
Please, is there a better way?
I'm afraid I can't make it.
"Going nuts"
>:(

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by firebrix on Dec 17^th, 2002, 5:43pm

Greetings Buster
sorry to hear that you're suffering so badly. The symptoms you describe are just part of the territory with dependency, but at least it's happening fast and will be over soon. Tell your doc what's happening - he might be able to give you something to help.
I am of little help to you, inexperienced in these matters, although there are many here who will be able to help you, so keep asking and someone will reply.
Just wanted you to know someone cared.
IMHO, get back to your doc as soon as poss. You may have to taper the dose more slowly to reduce the bad effects.
If you receive no answers, E mail me and we'll see what I can find out about this and get back to you.
Hang in there mate.
IT WILL PASS!
firebrix

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by tanner on Dec 17^th, 2002, 7:37pm

hi buster, nice to meet ya. unfortunatly i know exactly where you are coming from so here's what i learned. first do not use another drug (downers, tranqs, etc) to ease the symptoms. it just prolongs it. drink tons of water and when you cant drink anymore have another gallon or so. take lots of showers and get a brush or one of those girly exfoliating things (they feel better) to scrub your skin with. vary the water temp sometimes hot some cold. take 150 mgs of milkthistle 3 times a day, this helps rush the toxins from your system. drink an herbal tea containing goldenseal among the ingredients. a good one is marketed by celestial seasonings under the name detox am. it can also help to try some of the herbal relaxants like chamomile tea with valerian to help with the jitters but it is possible that relaxing too much could prove to be a ha trigger so be sure to pay attention to that.

you can do this believe me. feel free to e-mail me if you need support i never sleep anyway!

good luck and good juju to ya.... tim

:)
:D
;D

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by K bogo on Dec 17^th, 2002, 9:02pm

I feel so bad for you Buster - you will get thru this. I have not even come close to what you are having to go thru, but I have done much of what Tim mentioned in his post. Water is excellent - and so is the Milk Thistle to detox your liver. One thing I might mention is a good multi-vitamin with all of that water. I have heard many others mention this on other posts. Also, I don't know if this would help any, but you might also try bathing in Sea Salt - lots of it. A therapist told me about this after I had a deep tissue massage. Deep tissue massage (the kind that hurts) breaks up toxins in the muscle and she said Sea Salt (only this type of salt) helps pull the toxins thru the skin. I took her advise and it certainly seemed to prevent much of the nausea/diarrhea that I normally experience after a session. It might be worth a try. Good luck!

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by tanner on Dec 17^th, 2002, 10:50pm

on 12/17/02 at 21:02:55, K bogo wrote:

yes yes more good advice, this is what i love about this place! i forgot about the vitamins. try flintstones or scoobydoo ! i'm really not kiding i got that from my heptologist... something about not overworking the liver when it already has its hands full.

darn k, i would like a deep tissue massage followed by a soak in sea salts right about now and i'm not de-toxing...... tim

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by Buster on Dec 18^th, 2002, 9:02am

:o This is what I look like, :P This is what I feel like.
Thank you all for the info. I'm sorry I Didn't make it, I went back on my patch, I felt like I was going to do something very bad if I couldm't get a break.
I will try again and again if I have to, but i feel so sick.
I will try the things you all suggected.
One other question if you please, how long does this last and does it happen each time I step down to another level? Actually I think that was two Q's.
My stomache still hurts and is upset from the other night.
I printed your replies nd will check off each one, drink lots of water, take bathes and showers in varying temp. drink milk Thistle, scrub skin w/ girly thing(that sounds good), herbal tea. OK!!
If I don't answer for awhile it will mean I'm back at it. The other night I couldn't have drank water and keep it down. I went for six hours, before I put on a patch, I don't believe I could have with stood another 6.
Again thanks! Buster.

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by Hound_Dogg on Dec 18^th, 2002, 1:16pm

Buster...I used to work for a abuse center...and the first thing I want to tell you is "You are not an Addict"!!! You took the medication for a pain problem and it is now time to stop. You have become dependent on the medication...nothing more.

Second...your Doctor seems to have a plan to slowly withdraw from the medication. You were up to 125mcg. You want to go down in strength slowly...i.e. 100mcg for 6 days, 75mcg for 6 days, 50 mcg for 6 days, and then 25 mcg for 6 days. At the first sign of strong withdrawal symptoms, tell your Doctor, you may need a slower withdrawal. Also you can take the Clonidine Transdermal system. It's a blood pressure med that helps with withdrawal symptoms. It also has local analgesic properties, in the area you place the patch.

Third...25mcg is still pretty strong. You may need to withdrawal alittle further after the 25mcg patch, i.e begin tapering with an oral narcotic, after that.

In answer to how long it will last...if you withdrawal this way, you should not have severe withdrawal symptoms. You may not feel "up to Par", but nothing severe. If you go Cold Turkey the symptoms will peak in 24 to 72 hours and begin to subside in a week or so.

Good Luck...and keep in constant contact with your Doctor during this process.

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by firebrix on Dec 19^th, 2002, 1:41am

Well said Hound_dogg!!
A brilliant post, and I've learned heaps.
Thank you.
firebrix

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by terrylch on Dec 25^th, 2002, 10:40am

I do not know how to post a message on this site. I am going to write this one last message and go to bed. I had CH off and on for about 3 years ---- 42 years ago. I accidently discovered a pressure point to hold when I first feel one coming on. I always know when I am about to get one. My right eye socket tells me. I do not use any medication. I haven't been to a doctor for years for them. I have learned if I prevent the first one, I do not get any more for (sometimes a year or two). If anyone would like to hear more about how I prevent them I would like to try to tell them as I know how painful they are. anyway -- bye -- terrylch@msn.com

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by Buster on Dec 25^th, 2002, 7:42pm

:) Boy howdy!! Yes I would be interested to learn about pressure points or anything else to prevvent the HA. thanks in advance
Buster

Title: Re: Detox, please will someone help?
Post by terrylch on Dec 26^th, 2002, 3:18am

Hello Buster,
The reason I got on here was, I started to get a CH last week and it dawned on me that I might be able to tell ohers over the internet. I got CH for about 3 years (1960-1963). I might have forgotten the exact dates but I will never forget the headaches. The doctors all told me there was nothing much they could do. The following is my own personal treatment. I am not a medical person of any sort. I am a retired sheet metal worker. I am not proposing you do the things I am saying. I am just telling this as I have experienced it. I accidently learned this many years ago. It does not completely cure the problem but it is about the closest thing to it. I have found that if I can stop the first one I do not get the second one (for a couple of years, anyway). My treatment needs to be done at the first indication of one coming on. I am pretty sure you know when one is starting. I sure do. This takes only one hand and usually less than 3 minutes (no prescriptions, doctors or money needed). If this works for everyone I will probably be sued by the medical profession for malpractice or something. At the first indication of a CH coming on, I immediately take my right hand and place my 4 fingers (not thumb) around the right side and a little to the back side of my neck at a location just above my shoulder. The spot is just above my shoulder blade and half way between the side of my neck and my spinal column. I found this spot because it was always one of the places that hurt. I lightly apply firm pressure with the end section of all 4 fingers. Not just the tips. I tip my head back a little which causes my hand to put a little pressure over a longer span vertically up the back of my neck. I do not know what is there for sure. I believe it is a blood vessel or a nerve or something of the sort. I think there are nerves and a main blood vessel there. I hold the pressure on this spot for a couple of minutes then release it. If the soreness in my eye is not gone, I re-apply the pressure. I have never tried holding the pressure steadily for a long period of time and I would recommend against doing that, as you could be shorting blood to your brain. The pressure I use is really not much, just a very firm touch with the end sections of all 4 fingers. I am saying this because I do not use just the tips of my fingers. I have tried different variations of holding this spot and this is the one that seems to work the best. When the slight pain in my eye socket has gone away, I quit with the prssure. I do not believe it has ever taken more than 5 minutes. I believe it is very important to apply the pressure at the earliest possible indication of a CH. It was a couple of times that I was not immediate in this that it took the longest for the pain to go away. I can honestly say that I have not had a full blown CH for over 42 years. If your headaches are on the left side, I do not know what you would do. Mine have always been on the right side of my head. I have never been brave enough to (not) apply the pressure to see if I would get another one for sure. I remember them as being too painful to attempt that. Good luck. I would appreciate hearing from you if this helps.
thanks, terry chancey