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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> What is the relation to the sinuses?
        
(Message started by: pborde on Aug 18^th, 2002, 11:34am)

Title: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by pborde on Aug 18^th, 2002, 11:34am

They're back. 2 year break and I have entered the first phase again - the bit where I can feel something everyday around the same time, and I know what that something will turn into in a few weeks time. Once more into the fire.

But here is my question - a few cycles back, I started taking Rinocort (sp?) for some sinus related issue. Within a week I had a full on episode. Just a month ago, I tried those nasal strips to help with a little light snoring. They really cleared up my nasal passages but after 4 nights, I started to get the cluster sensations - no headaches, but the shadow of one. I stopped with the strips immediately, but one month later, it appears that I may have triggered another cycle.

Has anyone had similar experiences? Does anyone know if there is a strong relation to sinus related issues. No, I am not suggesting that I have sinus headaches; I have been dealing with this beast for 18 years now and was ecstatic when it was finally properly diagnosed (my mom always thought I was just mismanaging my stress levels - thanks mom). I am wondering though, out of curiosity and even looking for some better "cure" - has anyone found any relation between the two?

-peter b-

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Melissa on Aug 18^th, 2002, 2:22pm

Hello pborde,

The only thing I can remember (and my memory isn't that good) being discussed on here a year or so ago, is that sinus problems are a possible trigger for clusters. I do know that when my fall hayfever starts acting up, is when my clusters begin also. For a very long time, the docs kept treating me for sinusitus, all the while with me suffering god awful HA's that made me feel like I had a tumor. It wasn't until I was referred to an ear, nose and throat specialist, who after making me get a CT scan, that he diagnosed me with CH's. Even though that doc only prescribed amnitryptaline and predisone for my CH's, he gave me some ammunition against my treatment of the beast. So yes, in a way, I think there is a correlation between the two, but only in the form of a trigger.

hope this helps...
Mel :)

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by whart on Aug 20^th, 2002, 10:15pm

Hmmm, i reached the opposite conclusion, that is, that the sinus shutdown and pain are symptoms, like the bloodshot eye, sensitivity to light, etc. that come on with the onset of a headache. At the same time, treating my sinuses to steam, nasal spray, and facial massage (a fancy way of saying that i push my facial tissue around, near the bridge of my nose, and cheekbone ridges) seems to give some relief. I'm continually amazed at how little specialists seem to know, and how much may depend on knowledge from other sufferers...

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by pborde on Aug 21^st, 2002, 2:59am

I agree - treating my sinuses during a ch sometimes relieves some pain, and sinus issues tend to arise during a cycle.

But twice now, when treating my sinuses (meds or not) out-of-cycle, I soon found an episode coming on. I am not sure if this is coincidence or that my need to treat my sinuses was due to a very very early sensitivity due to a cycle coming on or...that perhaps one of the cycle triggers was sinus related. ???

Just searching for answers or ideas among the experts

-peter-

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by oringkid on Aug 21^st, 2002, 8:30am

All I know is that sinus pain, the very few times I have had it (knock on wood), feels very much like my CH shadows. Same pressurey burn.

I think treating your sinuses with heat or facial manipulation during actual CH can bring relief due to the fact that you are using heat (a common relief tool for CH'ers) and pressure points (something most CH'ers are compelled to do anyway). I don't think that the sinus is truly involved except to the extent that the sinuses are irritated by the pain since the trigeminal nerve is right there.

All this is MHO.

Sherry

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Sarge on Aug 21^st, 2002, 10:32am

Interesting theories, I saw a neuro who thought that my ch's were caused by the fact that I had sinus surgery about a year prior to the first attack. I also had a rhino-septoplasty (fancy name for a nose job) the year before that, he thought that all the cutting and moving nerves around might have been the catalyst. Whatever the cause, my sinuses are definately tied in some how because sometimes in the summer when I go from an air-conditioned car or house to the summer heat my right sinus will lock up and I'll get an attack in about ten minutes.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by dew on Sep 24^th, 2002, 6:47pm

I have had these headaches for 28 years. I haven't had them for almost 3 years (I thought maybe I outgrew them). Early spring I had the allergies and sinus problems which I am sure is what triggered what I am going through now. Waking up every night for the past 3 months with intense, unbearable pain that lasts from 30 min to 2 hrs.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Bob P on Sep 25^th, 2002, 8:12am

Years ago it was thought that the cavernous sinus was the origin of CH. That thinking has now changed to something deep in the brain, hypothalamus, being the origin. The sinus is involved because the trigeminal nerve, the one that becomes inflamed during CH, serves this sinus area as well as eye, jaw, etc.

So the sinus problems are now considered a symptom of CH rather than a cause.

Perhaps your sinus problems before the CH actually sets in is because the CH is actually starting, causing problems in the sinus area, but has not yet reached the point of causing the typical CH pain.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by ave on Sep 25^th, 2002, 1:08pm

Interestingly, I use nasal strips too. When I was in cycle and unmedicated, the strips gave me just a tad relief.
The opposite of what you experienced. The cluster is a wily beast...

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Starfire3 on Oct 1^st, 2002, 10:29am

I have been studying my headaches for years and here are my non-doctor-person conclusions:

I am allergic to house dust so my sinus passages are always inflamed.

Dehydration makes it worse because the mucus membranes are sticky instead of lubricated.

Air pressure changes (weather) come along and because my nasal passages aren't in good shape, sinus pressure isn't equalized as Nature designed it to be. Sinus pressure grows.

Muscle tension builds from expectation of pain. OR Muscle tension is already there from life stress. Tightness starts in middle back or neck and spreads over top of head to facial muscles. Pain follows.

(pain development can take minutes, an hour, a heartbeat)

Pain plus sinus drainage causes motion sickness like symptoms

I either wake up sick at 3am or 4am, or I get hit while I'm awake and get to feel it coming on - with all the associated panic.

Triggers:
----------
weather fronts
dehydration and diuretics
stress tension in muscles
muscle abuse - being stoopid :)
too much dairy = clogged sinus passages

What helps - or can help:
-------------------------------
*water, water, water
*Steam - hot shower, facial sauna, pot of boiling water and towel (usually with herbs in the water - lemon grass, red chile, )
*saline nasal spray
*relax the muscles - hot shower, hot packs, muscle relaxers, massage, chiropractic, drugs/herbs
*sleep on buckwheat pillow to prevent muscle abuse
*accupressure
*crying

What doesn't help:
-----------------------
*screaming
*banging head on wall
*hurting people
*amputation
*decongestants = dry me out. So, although they provide temporary sinus relief, they rebound

Interesting book:
Your Body's Many Cries for Water
by Fereydoon Batmanghelidj

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by pjbgravely on Oct 1^st, 2002, 4:26pm

I have always thought that my severe ha's were caused by sinus infections. I think thought way becouse I had a infection during my first cycle. Only the pain didn't go way when my sinuses healed.When this cycle started I started treating my stuffed nose. The ha's got worse and worse until my first 10. During the CH my sinuses drained for what seemed like 15 min. All I could do is let it run out. Since then (until today) they have been clear. Sinus pain is better than Ch any day.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Qigong on Oct 16^th, 2002, 12:30am

My sinus closes up right before the beast hits. If I take sudafed RIGHT AWAY I can stop it. if I delay at all forget it.. As an acupuncturist I have treated patients pretty aggressively in the sinus area if they are having an attack while being treated. I just tell them don't look at the needles while I do this. I have had about an 80% sucess rate in getting rid of the head ache.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Ted on Oct 16^th, 2002, 1:39am

Please tell me you're not talking about an 80% rate in success with treating cluster attacks. That might lead me to some questions if you do. Things like why you're here if you can treat 80% of your own attacks but still decide to take Sudafed instead. Why you're the ONLY accupuncturist that has ever been able to do anything for clusters. Why do I keep hearing ducks? Quack quack. Accupuncture is good for a number of things, but again, please tell me you are not talking about clusters.

Title: Re: What is the relation to the sinuses?
Post by Jenny G on Oct 16^th, 2002, 8:48am

I sought the help of an acupuncturist a few weeks ago when I "felt" the cycle coming on. The doctor seemed very knowledgeable and said it was related to the gallbladder meridian. (I also had my gallbladder out when I was 20, so this made sense). So he treated the gallbladder meridian (3 pins in the inside of my right wrist and 3 pins on top of my right foot towards my little toe)

That night I immediately started having high-level pain headaches AND what are called ghost pains in my gallbladder area.

Was it a CH trigger or a coincidence? I'll never know, but I sure as heck am NOT going back!

Also worth mentioning - I do not usually have allergies, but I noticed I started having "allergy-type" symptoms right before this cycle started.

I also notice if I sleep with my head elvated a little more than normal that seems to help - and if I happen to roll out of that position or off the pillows, the "poison" seems to seep out and the attack starts.

Jenny