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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> REBOUND
        
(Message started by: JonB on Aug 3^rd, 2002, 6:34pm)

Title: REBOUND
Post by JonB on Aug 3^rd, 2002, 6:34pm

Does anyone know if Rebound headach is drug specific?

I have used VicodinES as an abortive but am now certain that in some cases it is the cause of a Rebound cycle.
I have Percocet (Oxy/APAP) but am scared to use it if it will cause the same.
The thought of not having an abortive for those tough ones is frightening.

Thanks

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Ueli on Aug 3^rd, 2002, 7:43pm

Jon,
It depends what you understand under "rebound headache".

There is no such thing as a rebound cluster attack. After a cluster attack is aborted by whatever means, the next attack will follow anyway. But this will be a new attack, not a rebound from the previously aborted one.

Quite some other issue is it when you are taking narcotics, such as Vicodin or Percocet, on a regular basis. These are prone to cause rebound headaches, but they are of a very different flavor than a CH.

Have you tried the more often used abortives, Imitrex and oxygen?

And finally, when we speak of a cycle, we mean the whole period of weeks or month when we are hit by CH.

PFNADs
Ueli

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by JonB on Aug 4^th, 2002, 5:20pm

Hi Ueli,

You are correct in that it is a complex question.

Here is some info....

During a cycle I use Vicodin and oxygen. Generally, this combination does two things - the oxygen hold it down until the vicodin kicks in and I get back to sleep.
However, during periods of heavy dosing (daily) I seem to have developed "pain" that does not respond to either the drugs or the O2. Unlike a classic CH, these painful (up to 8-9) can last for 8-10 hours. Strangely they seem to go away with daybreak.

I assumed they were rebound.

The triptans do not work for me. Ergots also dont work. Channel Blockers in high dose (720mg/day) do. Prednisone does but I am finished with that Sh*t...it causes all kinds of related issues.....dont want it!

Thanks

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by paul_b on Aug 4^th, 2002, 6:16pm

Not having an abortive you can count on is frightening. Trial and error with meds was only alternative and sometimes the process was not pleasant but necessary. Now I know I am med sensitive and need to keep with lower dosage than many people. I was worth the effort but damn it took a long time for me to figure it out. Good Luck

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by williamsmh on Aug 6^th, 2002, 8:46pm

I don't believe I rebound into cluster....

But I do have rebounds of migraine.
During a bad Cluster period - I'm chronic - but sometimes I only have 1 / day... sometimes I have 3.

During the 3 / day I sometimes have migraine after I have injected with imitrex too many times.
Mark

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Kingfisher on Aug 7^th, 2002, 3:58pm

Mark,

when you you say you rebound into migraine after using too much imitrex, how much is too much? I too am a chronic sufferer and there are days when I will use what seems to be way to much. (I buy Imitrex in the Vial form then use insulin needles) and there will be days where I will use four or five vials a day for a week or two at a time. I have been doing this for years. Am I just feeding my rebounds?

Advise?

Rick

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Ueli on Aug 14^th, 2002, 7:48pm

on 08/12/02 at 14:15:16, Cry-or-die wrote:

The theory is that the chemical (DHE, calcium uptake inhibitors[verapamil], etc)disables the neuron from transmitting the pain signal to it's processing center for the actual sensation of pain.

I don't like this statement. But no, I don't just leave it and move along. Because my concept of support is to counteract the spreading of misinformation; somebody could get to harm if such bovine droppings as in above quote remained not contradicted.

Our body contains different sorts of nerves.

One kind is specialized to report painful events. The receptor at the nerveending is exited by a chemical messenger and sends a signal to the neuron (which is in this case at the remote end, away from the pain causing stimulus). The neuron then communicates with its neighbours in the brain, that then identifies the pain causing location. Opiates can block the pain receptors at the nerve endings and so suppress the sensation of pain. And that is the cause why narcotics are useless in aborting cluster pain. During a CH attach there are no pain receptors activated and no pain signals sent to the brain; due to some misfiring in the trigeminal nucleus the reception of pain signals are mimicked and the brain maps this to the eye region endings of the trigeminal nerve.

Other kind of nerves tell the muscles to contract or relax. The smooth muscles around the blood vessels need calcium ions to be able to receive nerve signals. Verapamil deprives them from the needed calcium and therefore the blood vessels respond only sluggishly to the nerve signals for expansion. Expanding blood vessels are involved in the positive feedback loop that leads to the rapid raise of a cluster attack. By making the vessels expand slower, due to blocking the calcium channels, cluster attacks can be damped or even be suppressed altogether. The nerves that control the smooth muscles are one way (as all nerves). Since they send a signal from the brain to the periphery (outwards) they cannot simultaneously send an inwards pain signal.
The ergot compounds and the triptans mimick a strong nerve signal to contract the vessels. They have no influence whatsoever on the nerves transmitting pain signals (which are anyway not involved, see above).

Cry-or-die, your definition of rebound is - to put it mildly - rather strange, and certainly not conform to the one used by the despised medical community.

Finally, the fairy tale about an absolute upper limit of triptan use must be disseminated by the insurance companies, one of the most greedy, money grabbing business branches.

PFNADs
Ueli

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Cry-or-die on Aug 14^th, 2002, 8:19pm

HAHAHAHA...you're usage of sarcasm is spectacular!

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Ueli on Aug 14^th, 2002, 8:40pm

Idiot, you don't even have the guts to admit that your post was complete nonsense. >:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Cry-or-die on Aug 14^th, 2002, 9:17pm

OK, I removed it if it bothered you so. ;)

I'll rewrite it more sensibly another time when I find better info. And have more of my reference books unpacked...just moved.

Further, I'm a B+ student which means I am wrong about 25% of the time...so take it all with a grain of salt dood. :P yuck salt

I don't want the wrong info up here either sooooo

Thanks for your input Ueli ;D

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Ted on Aug 14^th, 2002, 9:37pm

on 08/14/02 at 21:17:28, Cry-or-die wrote:

Further, I'm a B+ student which means I am wrong about 25% of the time...

Since there are 5 letters in the alphabetized grading system that would put you at wrong 20% of the time. If you were a 3.0 instead of a B student then you'd be wrong 25% of the time since that system just goes to 4. Just wanted to point out that you've used up your quota for being wrong tonight. :-)

Title: Re: REBOUND
Post by Slammy on Aug 15^th, 2002, 10:54am

heheheh...

Ueli found a new buddy to play with! ;D

Slammy 8)