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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> My husband is cured!!! Please Read
        
(Message started by: Gabby on Jun 13^th, 2002, 10:44am)

Title: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Gabby on Jun 13^th, 2002, 10:44am

I am new to the message board, although I have read EVERYTHING I can find on these headaches. It wasn't until my cousin called me to tell me he hasn't had one in over a year, (he suffered for 15 years) that we took his advise. He told me that the problem came from his tooth. When he was younger, he had a root canal that was filled with silver. He had to have it redone, and he said as soon as the silver was removed he felt an instant change. He was so excited, he made the dentist take out all the silver fillings from his mouth. Since then his headaches have disappeared. So my husband took his advise, went to the dentist and had the same thing done. To our skeptical surprise, it WORKED!!! The dentist had said that there was the smallest, tiniest hole from the root canal going into his sinus cavity. The MRI's and CATScans and all the other tests my husband took never showed up anything. BUT THIS WORKED!!!
If any of you want to e-mail me to find out a little more, trust me I know your suffering. My husband has but his fist thru walls in our house, woke me up crying like a baby at 2a.m.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Margi on Jun 13^th, 2002, 10:56am

Hi Gabby
I'm sure glad your hubby and your cousin (man, what are the odds of clusters being in your family and the one you married into?) are pain free. But before everyone runs and gets all their fillings yanked out, please keep in mind that a one year remission is not all that spectular in clusteropolis. Not unless the sufferer had been chronic for all those 15 years. How long has your husband been pain free, Gabby? Could it be that his cycle just ended naturally?

Cluster headaches are caused from a deformed hypothalmus and seratonin imbalance - Dr. Goadsby is pretty darned sure about that. The seratonin imbalance is a common thread in clusterheads and explains a lot of things.

Lots of sufferers have had teeth extracted, re-filled, etc. - my husband included - in a search for a cure. But in most every case, the cycles of clusters has come back.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Gabby - and I really hope your hubby's remission continues for a long time.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Bob P on Jun 13^th, 2002, 10:57am

Gabby,

Sorry, but if your husband had headaches caused by silver going through a root canal hole, into his sinus, he did not have cluster headaches.

Clusters stem from the hypothalamus in the middle of the brain.

Glad to hear that whatever headaches your hubby had are cured and I can really appreciate your excitement and eagerness to share this

Thanks for sharing with us.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Gabby on Jun 13^th, 2002, 11:32am

Bob P -

I understand what you're saying about the origin of the clusters, but how can you explain my cousin, who has definitely suffered in cycles for 15 years. I am not saying go and get your teeth yanked out, but maybe it is something worth checking out.

Although my husband just had his tooth done a month ago, his headaches have not returned.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Ueli on Jun 13^th, 2002, 11:33am

To add to what Margi said, everybody contemplating some tooth work to 'cure' clusters should read about The Mercury Amalgam Scam (http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html).
This article calls the "60 Minutes" broadcast about the "tooth fillings connection" the most irresponsible report on a health topic ever broadcast on network television.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Bob P on Jun 13^th, 2002, 11:39am

Gabby,

If the headaches are caused by the silver in my teeth, silver which is there all of the time, or a hole into my sinus which is there all of the time, why are the headaches circadian in rhythm? Why do I get hit for 5 or 6 weeks and then get 2 years pain free?

For 20 years I got hit every 8 or 9 months. Then, at the age of 40, for no reason, the clusters jumped to every 2 years. Since then each remission gets a couple of months longer with the last one being 2 years 7 months. That could be an explination for your cousin.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by dannyboy on Jun 13^th, 2002, 11:43am

That the hypothalamus has a connection to clusters is now beyond doubt thanks to Dr Goadsby. Thats a fact. OK.

That the hypothalamus is the CAUSE of clusters has not been proven. Thats a fact ... Its a fact.

Its what some researchers call "Logical Conjecture".
"Logical Conjecture" looks like this .... "If we find x, y, and z, then that MUST mean blah blah blah." Well it may and it may not. The fact is, that it remains unproven, logical conjecture.

The opnions presented above, are, in my humble opnion ... just opinions.

I am of the opinion ... that stating opinions as proven fact is out of bounds.

To cap it with "Therefore you don't have clusters" ..... OUCH!!!

What if you're right boob ...? well then you're ok!

But what if you're Partially right ... ? Then you're fucked. And I know, because of my special circumstance, that IF you are right, then, at best, you're only partially right.

But we don't even know That yet. It remains to be proven that you're even partially right. Am I right?

Now I don't mean to piss on this new found friendship, dare I call it that, forgive me ... but if I'm going to hire a Hawg and join you for some long winding country corners, and conversation about changing the world...

Show me what I'm missing so that I can shut the fuck up already. Please!!

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Bob P on Jun 13^th, 2002, 11:58am

You are right Danny.

So now the question is, are there people without the fillings who have clusters?

I know what my guess is but I'll reserve it. The good thing is, since they don't use these fillings much any more, we should see a complete end to clusters with this generation.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by dannyboy on Jun 13^th, 2002, 12:04pm

Not funny shut up!!!

Bent (with laughter)
D

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by kristi on Jun 13^th, 2002, 12:05pm

Okay, I'm no help.

My answer is "yes, Scott has several silver fillings."

Waiting now for a bunch of clusterheads to tell me they have never had a silver filling so I don't have to tell Scott to go get his yanked out. ;D

PFDAN...Kristi

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by oringkid on Jun 13^th, 2002, 12:33pm

We would have to find someone who either has never had a filling or someone who is VERY young (probably 25 or younger to be safe) who has never had a silver filling.

Me, I got silver.

Sherry

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by BarbaraG on Jun 13^th, 2002, 1:44pm

I have no silver fillings and have had clusterheadaches for 13 years, with the last 3 years being chronic. ::)BarbaraG

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Bob P on Jun 13^th, 2002, 3:19pm

So, there you have it! Positive proof that a lack of silver fillings causes chronic cluster headaches.

Thanks Barbara.

This is a common trait in clusteheads. We so desparately want to figure these damn things out that when something changes with the headaches, we start trying to figure out what we did different to cause the change. We're likely to grab ahold of anything we can make sense of in our heads.

When chances are that the change is aresult of getting older and a change in body chemistry.

I can't say absolutely that fillings have nothing to do with clusters. I can say that I firmly believe that they don't.

Family members of clusterheads are 14 times more like to have clusters than familys of non clusterheads. That tells me it's more than fillings.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by williamsmh on Jun 13^th, 2002, 3:21pm

I highly doubt that silver fillings cause cluster headaches.... BUT....

I do believe that once in cycle... many things can trigger attacks to be worse, more often, longer cycle etc.

Alcohol, weather changes, etc. Maybe silver fillings are one of these.

Mark

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by williamsmh on Jun 13^th, 2002, 3:22pm

I forgot to add that I probably do have silver fillings, but I have never had a root canal...... just topical fillings.
Mark

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by eyes_afire on Jun 13^th, 2002, 8:21pm

Sorry, I've never had a cavity and never had silver ;D. I have a post and crown, but no silver.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Drk^Angel on Jun 13^th, 2002, 10:51pm

I have never had fillings, nor needed any dental work done, and I've had CH since I was 11. Oh well...

PFDAN...................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Marijke on Jun 14^th, 2002, 2:10pm

Hi,

I've had my last filling when I was 17. My clusters didn't start till I was 33. And I (fortunately) never had a root canal.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by rick on Jun 14^th, 2002, 2:44pm

No silver fillings.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by chalo on Jun 15^th, 2002, 9:23am

just adding to the "survey" .30 yrs old,clusters for only 2 weeks,no fillings or dental work. chad :-X

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Mr. J.L. on Jun 24^th, 2002, 9:15pm

I've had a root canal when I was 23, as well as various other fillings....My CH's started in 1994, and seem to come every other year (seems like the even numbered years).....Anyway, my root canal filling came out 2 years ago, and I still get the CH's....

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by simpson1974 on Jun 25^th, 2002, 10:16am

Just for the record... have had mucho fillings... four or five root canals... lost track... lots of dental work. Not that there's a connection, either, but my CH didn't start until after I had my first filling. I'm just not sure how long after because my memory, even though I'm fairly young, sucks. ::)

And they are silver fillings, btw.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by b.rains on Jun 25^th, 2002, 10:59pm

Perfect teeth, not even 1 cavity in 30 years. I been suffering since age 20. Silver = nothing when it comes to clusters although I have on occasion wanted to pull my teeth out to relieve the pain. ;D
-b.rains

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by das on Jun 27^th, 2002, 8:40am

I've had CHs for 10 years. Had many theories as to why and how to stop them. None of which were right.

Bottom line. I went into to a 2 year remission at one point then one day. BANG ! back again.

As Margi and others will tell you, CHs are caused by a deformed hypothalamus. (not related o teeth or fillings) I believe it was a coincidence that your cousin and husband went in to remission after removing their fillings. A big coincidence at that. I know you may believe otherwise, but I unfortunately believe that their clusters will return one day.

If you ask me CH is a living, thinking beast. It finds ways around your meds and lifestyle changes. Just when you think you've beaten it. It comes back. This may sound corny, but I think the best way to deal with CH is by telling yourself that it could be worse, which is true.

I've found Oxygen is a big helper for me. I actually have completely gone off medication after being on all sorts for 6 years. I had 6 months of remission, but now I'm starting a cycle again.

Good luck.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by AnthonyT on Jul 1^st, 2002, 2:43am

I should have backed out of here once I saw the subject. Oh well... too late now.

Forming a direct relation between mercury amalgams and clusters is folly. An indirect relation, however, may or may not exist.

I will echo the advice of others in warning: do not go to immediately remove mercury amalgam in expectation of dispelling clusters. They might be a (*A*, not *THE ONLY*) cause of clusters, or one of many factors involved. We don't currently know. Even if they are involved in a particular case, removing them might not help -- if they had effect, it's quite possible (in some cases) that the damage is lasting or permanent.

Having said that, now I mention some simple facts: mercury amalgams do have murcury -- really! It is not a small portion of them even (nearly 50% to get right "mix"). Dentists handle the material with great care to limit exposure. Amalgam does degrade (it's not some mythical adamantium compound that is impervious to physical erosion or chemical reaction).

Now... the question would be: is the murcury leeched (or even the other elements of the compund, to be fair) of sufficient quantity to be "bad"? I will not answer that, as it seems to depend a lot on what "bad" is. Opinions on this will vary all over the map. But the simple rule is: less is less bad. Much like John Gofman's conclusion about a research on a "safe dose of radiation": "There is no safe threshold". Every unit of exposure merely increases chances of something going awry and escaping or exceeding the body's maintenance (immune) system. In the case of heavy metals (or specifically murcury), each body may have a crude "threshold" of how much it can accomodate before something "bad" happens... but you could argue that any that sticks around is reducing your margin to this threshold, and is therefore bad...

... I ramble.

I'd like to jump off this ramble by stating that things are rarely as simple as A causes B, where complex systems are concerned (such as our bodies and their environs). Don't toss away intermedate variables (amalgams) because they don't *direclty* match the summary of your hypothesis (hypothalamus deformity). Also don't toss variables because they aren't present in every case (I'm pretty sure there are a lot of ways to mess up the hypothalamus to some particular end, if that is the desired outcome). And on the other side of things: just because a suspicious variable is present, doesn't mean it's significantly involved in the result when the "equations" are so complex. :)

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Linda T on Jul 1^st, 2002, 10:37am

I'm actually quite glad that this teeth/ch subject came up and that there are lots of people out there with perfect teeth that have CH. While I do believe in the hypothalamus theory I always start thinking that my teeth are the problem while I'm in cycle.

I am not one of those with perfect teeth. I have had 2 root canals and various other dental work done over the years (and yes, I have silver fillings). As Bob P said, when a cycle starts I'm so anxious to grasp at anything that may be causing this. I cannot do anthing about my hypothalamus. I guess that's the problem. Teeth? If you told me CH was caused by my teeth you can yank 'em all!

So this puts the teeth/CH connection to rest in my mind. Thank you all.

Wishing you FPDAN always, Linda T

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by TomM on Jul 1^st, 2002, 12:20pm

Wager me this: $5.00 says you work for a dentist office.
TomM

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by AnthonyT on Jul 1^st, 2002, 4:09pm

In my last post I left conclusions to be drawn by the reader. I'll clarify my own opinion: I would not discount mercury amalgam as a potential source of bodily damage or interference which becomes a cause of clusters.

My previous post was an attempt to head off simplistic reasonings such as both "a person with clusters had fillings removed and the clusters disappeared, therefore fillings cause clusters" and "a person with no fillings has clusters, therefore fillings do not cause clusters".

Let us assume that clusters are directly related to an abnormality of the hypothalamus -- now what causes this abnormality? One specific thing? A combination of factors? A matrix of factors, many subsets of which are sufficient? With any biological system as complex as ours, my bets will always go with the latter (matrix/subsets).

I'm just trying to provide words of warning. We can say that silver fillings aren't THE cause, for all the good that does. I think it's a mistake to be looking for one cause at the human-experience level. Perhaps there is a bottle-neck at some point -- one simple result that creates the cluster condition, but still there are likely to be numerous ways this result is created. (How many different ways are there to win a game of checkers? If you look at the end-state, there is only one rule -- you win when your opponent can't move on their turn. But there are many possible combinations leading up to that state.)

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by mikeslieber on Jul 4^th, 2002, 9:45pm

After I had my teeth worked on. They removed the silver (because they had to replace the fillings because of decay not because they were silver) It slowed my migraines down (I always get my teeth checked when my migraines get out of control). However I went from episodic to chronic within 5 days. (I know it was just coincidence) Pain gone is awesome so good luck!

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by BobG on Jul 5^th, 2002, 11:52am

Everyone needs to make a choice to either keep their perfectly good, non-health-problem-causing silver-mercury amalgam fillings or have them ground, hammered, chipped and dipped from their teeth.

As you might surmise I'm against spending good money to fix a non-problem.

IMHO the silver-mercury amalgam subject is to sell books and magazine articles and line the pockets of dentists that can't make an honest living.

But, if you'd like to read a little on the subject, for and against, click this

http://dentistry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sukel.com%2Ffillings.htm

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by BobB on Jul 8^th, 2002, 12:07am

Hi all

Just to add my 3 cents in:

Yes I have fillings, root canals and pulled teeth. My sinus cavity was also punctured 15 years ago.

My CH's started about a year and a half ago, running in 3 months cycles, followed by one month remissions.

Each attack would start in my upper right molar and then progress into my head, behind my eye and up though the top of my head like a metal spike.

What I thought was odd was that it always started like a toothache. Luckily, if this happened when I am awake, I can hit the o2 and get ahead of the CH. Flip side 90% awaken me and it's already in full throttle.

Anyhow, I can safely say that teeth could be related to CH's but they aren't the cause nor the cure.

The cause is still unknown and the only cure is death.

Take it easy

BobB

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by trsoule on Jul 10^th, 2002, 5:14am

Just wanted to let you know... I am 24 with no fillings, no dental work, never had anything done with my teeth. I'm blessed I guess if that's what you want to call it. I'd trade really bad teeth for no CH but unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

Be strong everyone..... One moment at a time.

Title: Teeth, Nerves and Nucleus
Post by dannyboy on Jul 11^th, 2002, 10:07am

The periodontal ligament is the soft tissue between the tooth and the bony socket that the tooth is in.

It has an enormously rich supply of nerves, and along with the nerve that supplies the tooth, is one of the most Exquisite and Sensitive neural inputs in the human body.

If you are uncertain about this then try having root canal work without an anaesthetic.

ANY problem with the tooth can cause impulses from the periodontal ligament and/or the nerves that supply the teeth. These impulses go via the Trigeminal nerve .... BANG .... into the trigeminal nucleus. Every time that nerve fires ... BANG ... the trigeminal nucleus takes a hit.

Beg Pardon to all my "hypothalamus-is-the-messiah" buddies, but the chance that teeth are not involved in some way in some patients is exactly zero.

If painful teeth are involved in your clusters don't make the mistake of thinking that your trigeminal nucleus is firing at your teeth. ah ah ... no sir ...

Dannyboy.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Gabby on Jul 11^th, 2002, 1:34pm

I was very disgruntled to find such a vast amount of people who don't have an open mind, so to speak. I logged onto this site first to research and when I finally did post a message, with enthusiasm, my "bubble was popped" as you have said.

My family was diagnosed with cluster headaches. There are no "other explainations" for what might be happening to them. I did NOT say go and get a root canal, I simply said that it was worth checking out.

It has been about 3 months of cluster free days for my husband,(and he was in the middle of a cycle) and 2 YEARS for my cousin.

All this talk about the hypothalamus being the only source, and not even taking into consideration any other possibilities that could be connected to the hypothalamus , is in my opinion, very small-minded.

Your teeth are connected to nerves which go directly into your brain. HELLO PEOPLE!!!! To say that there is no chance that there may be a connection is ridiculous. Everyone is different, and the effects of certain things in your body, such as a filling, could have reprocussions. ITS NOT THE SAME FOR EVERYONE.

And as dannyboy said, these are all just opinions and to take my opinion literally or to disregard it as false is silly.

I do hope that this has worked forever for my family, if not, on to other treatments. And I hope that the rest of you sufferers do find some peace.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Bob P on Jul 11^th, 2002, 2:19pm

So, if CH is caused by fillings, and you have the fillings in your teeth all of the time, why do my clusters only come every 2 1/2 years?

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by Ueli on Jul 11^th, 2002, 7:59pm

First I must correct a minor mistake of Gabby, she didn't listen close enough to her holistic dentist. Tooth filling are not of pure silver but of silver amalgam, that is an alloy of silver and mercury. And it is the mercury in the fillings that is so dangerous in many aspects, as the great benefactor to human health, Hal Huggins D.D.S., has shown.

Taking that into account BobP's question why clusters come in cycles while tooth fillings are (practically) permanent is easy to answer:
The seeping of mercury through a tiny leak in a root channel is not constant, but oscillates with time. And could there be a more obvious reason than the tidal forces emanating from the planet Mercury (from whom the poisonous metal used in fillings got its name)?
The rotation period of Mercury around the sun is 88 days, almost 3 month. Now cluster cycles start seldom every 3 month, but we hear of reoccurrences in 6, 12, 18, 24,... months, all multiples of the Mercury cycles. We all know that the height of the tides varies with the moon cycle, some times the position of the sun reinforces the influence of the moon, and in between it has a reducing effect. In the same way the tidal forces that Mercury (the planet) exerts on mercury (the metal) are modulated by the position of the sun and the other planets. Therefore cluster cycles are not every Mercury cycle, but multiples of it. I already hear the skeptic smart asses say: but why then are the cycles for all clusterheads not all in synchronism? I answer: dear friends, could it be that you forgot to take into account the individual cycles of the bio rhythms ?
Q. E. D. ;D

For Gabby, should any of your relatives or acquaintances suffer from another serious disease or disability, don't forget to search the web about it. I'm sure the honorable Hal Huggins, D.D.S. has described an amalgam connection for this too.

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by sailpappy on Jul 11^th, 2002, 10:48pm

;D ;D Ms. Gabby,
I think it's wonderful your husband found the cause of his headache syndrome, this was one of the first conclusions that was drawn in my case history also, I had a few fillings and they were getting to be in fairly rough shape, the V.A. Yanked the teeth on the right side from center out one day and the next day they yanked the other side out, I was still in the recovery room when I started having clusters again.
I was 23 years old and not only suffering from a horrific chronic pain syndrome, but now had to live with the stigma of having false teeth also! My attacks increased to double the amount of daily attacks over the next year then kind of stabalized at 7 or so a day for over the next year.
So while it seems to have been your Husbands cause and cure I think you will find it the exception to the rule here, most of these people suffer from a displaced systematic hypothalmus defect in functionability! There in lies the problem, you cant see functionally defects on the test like some other symptoms. at least thats my Humble Opinion and I'm sticking to it! Pappy
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sungulls.gif
http://www.gifs.net/animate/sailboat.gif

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by dannyboy on Jul 12^th, 2002, 1:57am

BobP,

If I give you the correct answer to your question will you take me for Pillion ride on your hog??

OK ... this is a biggie ... here goes ... the moment you've been waiting for ....

The reason, Mr President, that Your cycles come once every 2 and a half years is that the periodontal ligament is also connected to the spleen.

Now, when your tooth hurts, your spleen produces a type of juice that looks like snot but actually tastes quite good ... ahem, yes sorry... anyway this juice is fired from the spleen via the root canal into the hypothalamus and the back to the spleen its self after which it 'passes through' your system.

In Your case it obviously takes about 2 and a half years to build up enough tasty snot till your spleen shoots its bolt at your hypothalamus and you get a cluster!!!

Easy as that me old son...

Well thats my theory anyway ... and I'm sticking to it.

Love and Kisses
Danny

Not Funny Shut Up!!

Title: Re: My husband is cured!!! Please Read
Post by dannyboy on Jul 19^th, 2002, 5:23am

Boob, I didn't intend any disrespect in the post above, that's just my misplaced humour taking over when actually what I wanted to say was ...

I don't know boss ... I just don't gog damn know.

If cluster headaches lie on a continuum of intra and extra cranial factors ... then ... my logical conjecture says that the mystical rhythms of cluster headaches lie in the intra cranial component. An area in which I am wholey unqualified to be sprouting pearls.

Danny