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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> Prednisolone (Prednisone)
        
(Message started by: JonB on Jun 12^th, 2002, 6:48am)

Title: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by JonB on Jun 12^th, 2002, 6:48am

Anyone have an idea of what effect on the immune system a short course of Pred will have. I am starting at 60mg (morning/one dose) for 3 days and then dropping 10mg a day and then spending 3 days at 5mg.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by NotH20 on Jun 12^th, 2002, 7:50am

Jon, I am not a doc and can only tell you from my own personal experience, but I believe that is a short round of Prednisone. Every time I get down to 20 mgs per day the beast comes back for a visit. Watch that closely. As for decreasing the immune system, I believe it does do that - but you are on a short treatment so unless you have specific concerns for health reasons that we are unaware of, you should be okay. That's just my humble opinion.

Glad you will be getting a break from the beast for at least a little while....keep the faith,

NotH20

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by TomM on Jun 12^th, 2002, 8:00am

I, too, am not sure if it affects the immune system but I do know that long term effect (years of continuous usage) can cause osteoporosis which I found out the hard way. I also know that tapering prednisone is correct although yours seems a tad steep. If that is what the doc prescribed, fine. I am not a doc. I used Prednisone for years to stop the beast in its tracks. Good stuff. Watch out for the jitters.
TomM

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by sailpappy on Jun 12^th, 2002, 12:16pm

Prednisone has been discussed here many times but I'm always happy to stick my nose into other peoples business!! It's what I do ! It's my Job!
Short term, like a 10 day pack or a 15 day pack will not have any deeply profound affects on your immune system or any other systems, but long term use will have some very diverse and dramatic affects on all oy your systems.
Prednisone is a steroide and basicly sysnthetic adrenaline, so when your system gets a little over the needed amount of prednisone in it well thew adrenaline gland tells the brin that it has enough fuel for the heart mucsle so stop producing it! this is why you have to tape off of it so the adrenaline system has a chance to turn back on and start producing the fuel that drives your heart muscle!
A few of the known side affects of long term use are as follows, loss of hair, developement of a moon face apperance, bones become brittle,kidneys stop working properly,several kidney disorders might develope including Fibrosis and complete renal failure, Diabeties,tremors, reduced bone developement and bowleggedness,euphoria, insomnia, mood changes, personality changes, psychotic behavior, or severe depression. It may worsen any existing emotional instability. may cause fluid retention and high blood pressure, eye problems may develop (e.g., a viral or fungal eye infection, cataracts, or glaucoma). Cushing's syndrome, marked by weight gain, a "moon-faced" appearance, thin, fragile skin, muscle weakness, brittle bones, and purplish stripe marks on the skin.Bone fractures, bruising, bulging eyes, congestive heart failure, convulsions, distended abdomen, face redness, glaucoma, headache, hives and other allergic-type reactions, increased pressure inside eyes or skull, inflamed esophagus or pancreas, irregular menstrual periods, muscle weakness or disease, osteoporosis, peptic ulcer, poor healing of wounds, stunted growth (in children), sweating, thin, fragile skin, vertigo.
Do I need to say any more? Pappy ;D :P :-/ :-X

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Gddyupn on Jun 24^th, 2002, 3:25pm

Pappy,

I always take prednisone for my cycles (for about 12 years now). I start at 60 mg for 3 days, then 50 for 3 days, the 40 for a couple of weeks, and then 30 for a couple of weeks. If I drop to 20 before the cycle is over (ususally lasts 2-3 months) then the headache comes back, so I never do that unless it's been a few months and I think the cycle has passed (I don't always share my unique way of tapering with my doctor, though). I have the moon face, acne, bloating, the jitters, and a lot of other stuff, but since I take 3 other medicines, I'm not sure which side effects belong to who! All of this is just to ask, would you consider me a long term user or a short term user? Is my dosage considered hight? Should I be looking out for the more serious side effects you've mentioned? One more question, I'm now glaucoma suspect, could this be a result of the steriods, and should I mention it to my neurologist?

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by eyes_afire on Jun 24^th, 2002, 6:18pm

Hi Gddyupn. Forgive me for being surprised, but are you saying that you take prednisone for months?! :o "I don't share my unique way of tapering with my doctor"? Woe begotten. In my opinion prednisone is one of the nastier cluster meds and should be handled with ultimate respect. Although I don't know what your other meds are, I'd bet that prednisone is responsible for most of your side effects. For the sake of your health, I think you need to tell your neurologist... everything and truthfully.

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Gddyupn on Jun 25^th, 2002, 6:49am

My neurologist knows I take Prednisone for months. It's the only thing that keeps the headaches at bay. If I drop to 20 mg, the headaches come back, so I just don't drop below 30mg. The neurologist thinks that every couple of weeks I drop down to 20 to see if the clusters are gone, and then if they aren't go back up to 40. I know they aren't gone, so I just don't drop until I think they are. Sometimes I'm fooled, sometimes not.

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by NotH20 on Jun 25^th, 2002, 8:40am

Gddy - I'm AMAZED that your doc is aware of the long-term usage or that he even prescribes it that way! :o I totally agree with the others regarding this medication and its serious side effects. Although it may give you some pain-free time - at what expense? You are breaking down all of your systems with the length of time you are on this specific medication. Have you tried Verapamil, O2 or some other abortives such as injections, Zomig or Maxalt?

One other questions - how often are your cycles?

Please do some extensive research on this steriod so that you can fully aware of ALL the complications.

Information if the key to a successful treatment.

NotH20

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Gddyupn on Jun 25^th, 2002, 9:39am

My cycles are every 15 months and last for 2-3 months. I am also currently taking Verap - 480mg/day. I have O2, which works when the headaches break throught the meds. I have always asked about the long term effects of steroid use, and I've never received any satisfactory answers, which is why I asked for Pappy's help. I've done many internet searches, and while I know the long and short term effects, I've never been able to ascertain whether or not taking prednisone for 2 or 3 months every 15 months would constitute enough for long term effects. I'm looking for answers, just don't know where to find them.

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by gtarman on Jun 25^th, 2002, 12:59pm

CH is such a FUBAR syndrome (disease? condition?). Some folks seem to have a regular timetable and seem to be completely PF in between. It was that way for me my first cycle ('97, 6 months) then completely PF for four years (well OK, maybe a teensy weensy twinge every 6 months or so that lasted seconds) but NO other symptoms.
Last year's 2nd cycle started in May, last "icepick" attack late July, but I'm still having facial twinges, pressure on bridge of nose, and DEPRESSION (and you'll never get me to believe it's mental and not a physical manifestation of CH). I've had other major physical problems and never this level of deep purple funk.
I've tried prednisone but can't take the jitters and insomnia. Zomig and Amerge stop the "icepiks" but I read here that they also seem to prolong/worsen the cycle (no thanks). Sigh. Do ANY of us know that the meds they're taking are working rather than just bridging the time gap till the cycle ends?
What I'd like to hear is from some 'shroom eaters that are successfully treating their CH (besides Pinky, who's a hell of a good dude). Anybody out there?

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by tommyD on Jun 25^th, 2002, 4:21pm

gtarman -

I am beginning to agree with the several people who have posted thier belief that depression is a symptom, and not just the result, of CH. The blues hit me hard early, during the warning shadows I get for a week or so before the beast himself shows up. Thought it was just because I knew what was coming, or when I thought I might be chronic (still don't know for sure). But the blues showed up even when I knew I had a treatment that would wipe out the beast long-term.

And my successful treatment is shrooms...Half a recreational dose, taken twice with a week between, has given me two months mostly painfree (a few mild attacks, then shadows gradually diminishing to zero over a week or two, then the shadows return and increase for a week or two before the big kips).

Last time, I took a full recreational dose (I guess) and I'm going on six months mostly painfree, though the shadows are now returning.

What do you need to know?

Check on down the medications board for a couple of recent success stories.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by eyes_afire on Jun 25^th, 2002, 7:20pm

I think I know what you mean, Tommy. I've noticed worst depression hitting right before or in early stages of cycle. Also crankiness. I become a large-scale crank :( >:( :'( :-/ :P :P

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Donna on Jun 25^th, 2002, 7:37pm

I'm quite sure that months of Pred. use is excessive. It is a great tool for breaking a cycle, but not to be used as a preventative. This can be a very nasty drug if overused! True, if you quit using it too soon, the cycle will resume. There is a great deal of conversation on this topic in the old archives. Look in the left margin menu. Also, post your question on the General Message Board for many responses on this subject.

One of the more often used preventatives for ch is Verapamil. Some people start at 480 mg (which helps some) and increase until they find their niche, which can go up into the 900's. Blood pressure should be monitered so that it doesn't drop too low, but many people go over 480 safely. You can, again, find all of the info you need on this subject.

Be sure to check out the OUCH site for more information.
There's a lot!

Icepick headaches are usually CPH (chronic paroxysmal hemacrania) which are resolved with Indocin (CH are not helped by this med).

Shrooms have helped many people, but should be used as directed by those who have researched their usage, and again, there is extensive info available here. Look under alternative treatments.

Good luck in finding something that's right for you.

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by kristi on Jun 26^th, 2002, 8:34pm

gtarman;

My husband has successfully treated his CH with shrooms. As tommyD said, there are a couple of recent threads of success stories on down a few notches on the medication board. (and if I could get my husband, scottie, and stecolor to post and update on how they are doing, these threads will be back up at the top - hey guys....where aaaare yoooouuuuuu?)

Sorry gtarman, I digress. So far, my husband's success in treating his CH has been nothing short of miraculous. He was already in the middle of a cycle and taking several meds when we came to this site and found the info on the shroom treatment. First, we read everything Pinky has written and the success stories of others. Then, he found the "magic elves" and did a two gram dose. He experienced 4 shadows in the next 48 hours, then nothing for 3 days. On day 6 he had two kip 4-5 about 12 hours apart. We were not surprised because others have needed to dose more than one time, especially if they are chronic (he is not), mid-cycle, and/or not detoxed from all of their meds. Unfortunately, he did not have another dose. But before we could find the magic elves, he realized it had been several days and no CH or shadows at all. So, he never did redose. It has now been 28 days since that one dose, and 22 amazing, wonderful, miraculous days since the last CH and he has not had even one shadow!! It completely aborted the cycle! I could not be more thrilled for him! HE IS PAINFREE and kickin' the beast's teeth in!

Okay, I'm getting all excited here. :) Sorry. :-/

In addition to searching this board for current success stories, you can find posts about shrooms from 2000 and from 2001 easily with these links:

http://www.a-dzign.com/shrooms/2000.htm

http://www.a-dzign.com/shrooms/2001.htm

I wish you much success with whatever treatment you decide to try!!!

PFDAN!

K

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by rick on Jun 27^th, 2002, 2:07am

Gtrman,

Notseinfeld and I are shroom success stories also. Along with Flash (who is the longest running at 9 years) Tommy, Scott, Steve, Pinkfloyd, Peter, and Shelley's husband. I believe Mastifflvr and Elizabeth might be, but I'm not sure. Monique's husband Greg had some success, as did Margi's husband Mike, and Not4Hire. You can find more if you cruise the archives.

I believe there might be some lurkers out there who are afraid to post due to the legalities involved with the treatment. I had a woman I have never seen post approach me through an instant message looking for more information. There may also be more individuals such as Peter who don't really hang around here anymore because they are better.

Some of us have had success as quickly and drastically as Scott has. Others (including myself) saw partial success in the beginning, and then a continual decrease in pain over time after multiple doses.

Here's a link with more info on how this all started. Flash was the first to bring this treatment to our attention:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_medical1.shtml

Peace,

-Rick

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Slammy on Jun 27^th, 2002, 11:12am

I always thought "shrooms" wer a psychodelic drug.. does it have that kind of side-effect during treatment?

Slammy 8)

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by rick on Jun 27^th, 2002, 1:09pm

Slammy,

Yes, it does. Check out this link:

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1013709016

Under this thread, PinkSharkMark has provided us with a scale of psychoactive effect levels which are experienced during therapy. I typically reached levels 1.5-2.5 for my treatments.

Smaller doses MAY be needed to prevent a cycle from starting, while larger doses MAY be needed to abort a cycle at full strength. We're still not completely sure, since there are so many variables involved from clusterhead to clusterhead. Certain types of psychedelic mushrooms are stronger than others, and some individuals tend to be more sensitive to the effects of psilocybin.

For those of us who have gone this route, it has been a process of self discovery, which is why we strongly recommend that anyone thinking of trying this treatment read EVERYTHING they can before attempting to use it. It is truly a learning process, and you need to monitor yourself and make your own decisions. This is why it is so important to take in as much knowledge on the treatment as possible. You need to be able to evaluate your own progress compared to those who have had success. Take the time to read through the archives, and ask us questions.

Peace,

-Rick

Title: Re: Prednisolone (Prednisone)
Post by Slammy on Jun 27^th, 2002, 1:26pm

Rick-

Thanks for the thread! Tons of useful info!

Given his vast knowledge of 'shrooms, I can see why he calls himself "Pinksharkmark"! ROFL!

On a serious note.... A Slammy on a psychedelic drug is not a good thing....he's spaced out enuff! :o

Slammy 8)