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Title: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on May 30th, 2002, 10:44pm Hey gang. Let me start here with a giant THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to flash, pinky, and all the other shroomers who have blazed the trail and then posted their positive results. Reading it all for the past two weeks has overwhelmed me with hope, so I decided to try it. The bottom line - I finally got my hands on some, did it last night, and WHAM! I have been pain free for 24 hours. One little shadow this morning, and that was that. Now, let's all pray together that it continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here's my background. I am 31, diagnosed as episodic 11 years ago. Always had one cycle per yr in the spring which would last about 12 weeks. Cycle would start easy, build up over time, reach a peak of 10 or more CH a day, and then slowly wind back down. Oxygen has worked well as an abortive, but no meds did the trick until I got on nuerontin in 1999. Since then I have skipped a cycle or two, had a couple of half-assed ones at unusual times of the year, and had shadows a couple of times that never led into a cycle. I have gone as long as 20 months in between cycles. This "achievement" has been maintained by a steady increase in the nuerontin level - I am now taking 4800mg per day. Side affects of depression, anxiety, restlessness, irritability, and insomnia, all from the nuerontin, I guess have got me on antidepressants and sleeping pills also. The details of my shrooming: after reading up on the deal, I decided to detox and get ready. I started tapering off the nuerontin (yes, under nuero.'s care) and the headaches intensified pretty quickly. I increased the dosage back up, but not to the level I was on before. Things improved mildly. I was able to drop of the antidepressants, but kept up the sleeping pills as they helped me greatly at night. At this point, I was about halfway through the cycle, at the peak, and didn't have time to do any farming before the end of the cycle. I tried to find the shrooms through other means, but was not very successful. But finally, a couple of days ago, I got my hands on some through a reliable source. So, I detoxed for about 12 - 24 hours, and then I went for it at about 11:00 pm last night. I had 2 grams, dried, and did Pinky's Kickass Mushroom Tea Recipe. Yummy!! (NOT!) According to Pinky's descriptions, I got to level two, possibly some slight level three stuff. I never knew the blue light of a bug zapper could look so pretty at 3 am! ;D Mostly just giggly though, and couldn't sleep. Had some mild stomach upset for about 3 hours but no heachaches at all while bug-zapper-watching. I had one shadow at 10:30 this morning. So, it's now 11:30 pm - 24+ hours pain free. **BACKFLIP** Nothing like kickin' the beast in the balls, regardless of the length of time it continues. Should note though, that I could tell the cycle was starting to wind down on it's own, before I shroomed (so this cycle may have been shorter than 12 weeks). But not once in 11 years has it ever just disappeared like this. I will keep you updated and will hope that I will be able to claim full success in each and every update!! PFDAN to all. Scott ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on May 31st, 2002, 1:37am Scott, Glad to hear you're feeling better. A few times when I've dosed, I've had that feeling as if someone flipped a light switch in my head and the pain feels like a distant memory. Other times, I'd get Kip 2's for a few days afterward, and then have some days of remission after that until I needed another dose. The advice I can give you from my experiences over the past few months would be this: Be careful. I thought I was better for a few weeks and stopped dosing, only to have the beast come back full force. I knocked it back down again by dosing without trouble, but it was brutal when it come back, to say the least. So be prepared to dose again if necessary. I'd had a few Kip 7-8's, but I held off from dosing again to see if I had done enough already to hit full remission, and I was wrong. However, I would also hold off from dosing again as long as your attacks remain at a tolerable level. Save your artillery for when you absolutely need it, especialy if you have a limited supply. Hopefully, you won't even need to think about this advice in the near future, and you'll have a long remission from here on out. If not, keep us posted on how you are doing, and enjoy the bug light :o! Peace, Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by williamsmh on May 31st, 2002, 4:14pm So, how do you get the shrooms? Mark |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on May 31st, 2002, 7:08pm I don't think this is a topic that should be discussed in this forum, my friends. DJ is ultimately responsible for what is up on this message board, and we have to respect that. Let's not get anyone in trouble. While I truly believe that this treatment should one day be legalized and legitimized for clusterheads, it remains illegal for now. Research should be done in a university setting so that the medical community can have the facts on the true medicinal benefits of this therapy. Save yourself the trouble of having to look for them and produce a small amount for yourself in your own home, and don't tell anyone about it. Mine, of course, were given to me by magic elves that live in the trees in front of my place. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on May 31st, 2002, 9:50pm Rick; I absolutely agree. I believe it is imperative that we keep the details of what we did and the results out there, so new clusterheads can get as much information as they can on how and what to do and as much encouragement as they can that this might be a positive solution, but the rest is up to them. Since I didn't have time to farm for this cycle, I was grateful that those same magic elves don't just live in your trees; they have summer homes in mine. Meanwhile, an update. I ended up with another shadow about midnight last night, and one about noon today. Nothing since. And although I realize one dose may not do the trick, I am prepared for that possibility. But, I am thrilled to have gone almost 48 hours now with only 3 shadows. To steal the explanation of another shroomer on another post somewhere, I can tell that these shadows are different from the usual, not just a shadow, but actually a headache getting ready to happen. Then it just disappears, like something has sucked the life out of it. The best word I can use is "fizzles." And I will take whatever small measure of power over the beast that I can get. :) PFDAN to all Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by williamsmh on Jun 3rd, 2002, 9:16pm Sorry about that... truthfully didn't know that there wasn't legal ways of obtaining them. Mark |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on Jun 3rd, 2002, 9:58pm ;D ??? ;) Hey friends, I am sorry that I haven't posted any updates lately but I have been trying to get to the five day mark without jinxing myself. Well I am finally at five days with no pain and I must say that it is a liberating feeling to know that you can go to bed and wake up and not worry about the pain. Even if they came back which, according to a lot of the other posts they could still do, it has been nice. I want to address something here. I realize that a lot of you are suffering and are very unsure about stepping over to the shroom side. Without giving any details I will only say that I am in a professional position where it would probably cause me a few problems at work if my friends knew exactly what I have done but I decided, with the help and support of my wife Kristi and all of you here on the board that I had to step back from any position of what is right and wrong according to the law and I chose to do what was right for me to stop the pain. None of us should have to live with the kind of pain that we do so I said that I am willing to do whatever works to ease the pain so long as I am sure that it is not self-destructive. I guess that it was easier for me to make this decision than for some of you because I was a recreational user for a short time in my distant past and I felt that this was a very safe alternative especially when you consider some of the other chemicals that we have placed in our bodies under the care of our Doc's. I am not trying to preach to anyone but if my words can help to alleviate just one persons fears and they can get the same relief that I have then I have succeeded in what I set out to do and that is to help someone else the way that those who came before me have helped my pain. Thank you to everyone for your support. I will keep you posted. PFDAN. :D Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Mastifflvr28 on Jun 3rd, 2002, 11:16pm Thank you very much Scott for your updates. I agree with you. Which is the worse of the evils, risking heart probs etc with some of the meds we are perscribed, or a day of being "off". I've had to do the shroom treatment 3 times now, I'm episodic and did them at the VERY beginning of my cycle. At this point right now, I would being woken up every 2 hours all nite long, plus on verap, imitrex injections, and in my "hell room" with my O2. I'm having to do the shrooms every 2 weeks at this point. I'm hoping my last treatment was really my last. I don't like the effects, I've not done "recreational" in the past. And was very scared to at the thought of trying them. But it beats getting on meds and doctors visits. Mast |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 4th, 2002, 1:05am Glad to hear you are both still well. I'm still doing fine also, and I need to dose once a week at this point. I'm only taking 1 gram per dose, which just gives me a good buzz as opposed to a typical recreational dose. We should again remind everyone that in SOME cases, you don't need to take recreational sized doses to get the results you are looking for. This may not be true for everyone, and that's where the individual needs to experiment until they can determine what amount will work for them and how often they should be dosing. Some individuals may actually need larger doses than others. I had only dosed once in a 17 day span, and on the 6th day after that dose (this past Saturday), I woke up with a Kip 2. I treat that as my body's way of telling me "it's time". I had a mild CH going all day on Sunday when I took more shrooms, and it lasted through the course of my "therapy". As the shrooms began to wear off, the CH went away. Today I felt great, minor shadows here and there, but, as always, they kept shrinking throughout the day. Sometimes it can take up to 2 days for the pain to vanish, but during those 2 days, my attacks are so small they are nothing more than annoying. I've been doing this for 3 months now, and I've been working full time again. I'm feeling pretty good about that. I would also like to note for those who have no experience with hallucinogens that it may be scary at first, but you will become used to them over time. Also keep in mind that this is not an "overnight" cure for everyone as it has for Scott, it may take some time, particularly you've been on heavy meds for a while. I am also in total agreement with Mast and Scott, this has been FAR easier on me than the meds were. Just consider the fact that many individuals take multiple meds on a daily basis, many of which are completely ineffective, while this therapy involves taking one medication once every week or two. And for myself, I'm praying to God that it continues to give me this relief. It's all good so far. PFDAN to all, Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 4th, 2002, 1:14am http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1013709016 |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on Jun 4th, 2002, 11:17am Mast Rick and everyone else. Just a little update. After posting last night I had a kip 4 around 4:00am and then again at 9:00am I had a kip 5. I am trying to track down those elves in my front yard again but it may be tough. I agree that not everyone is going to need the same dose as the next person. I will also add that my dose was a little intense even for someone who has done it in the past. The best recommendation that I can make is to have someone you can trust hang out to keep you company. It will get better over time but anything freaky is still favorable to laying on the floor punching your head all night. I don't think that I will have to keep dosing forever since my cycles have always ended sooner or later which is why I am trying to shut down the cycle by taking a good dose. I can handle a little bug zapper watching verses letting my 4and half year old see me laid out on the floor writhing in pain or waking my wife up with my shouts for it to go away. I am doing okay for now. As soon as I can aquire another dose then I will let you all know the results. Rick you are absolutely right about doses. It obviously wasn't an overnight cure for me either so I will keep on keeping on. Until later. PFDAN :-/ Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by clusterdome on Jun 4th, 2002, 11:50am Scott, I just wanted to say thank you for all of the time you put into this thread! Your good work does not go un-noticed. PFDAN....................Ed |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 4th, 2002, 12:32pm Scott, I tried taking a fairly large dose once, and it seemed to be more aggravating than beneficial. But that was dose number 6 for me. Maybe it's beneficial to take a higher initial dose, then stay within 1-1.5 gram range. Who knows. Man, some serious reseach would do us so much good. Hope you find those elves, brother! Again, you most definitely speak the truth, I'll take this buzz over the pain any day. Good Luck, Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by tommyD on Jun 4th, 2002, 3:50pm The last time I shroomed was in January. I took a larger than expected dose...about a trip level 2+, from a half-gram of what is apparently a high-potency species. I followed up with about a quarter gram of the same. I've been pain free since. Previous shroom treatments (two equal doses of a half-gram, trip level 1) would get me two months with nothing but shadows. Maybe the high initial dose is something to look into further... -tommyD |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 5th, 2002, 12:37am Tommy, Wow, level 2+ from a half gram? That sounds like a very efficient species to use. Do you know what kind it was? -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by nancyc on Jun 8th, 2002, 11:53am Rick and Scott, my prayers are with you guys....Good luck to you both...and keep us posted...btw, what are you gonna do when you catch the little elves? LOL. ;D |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on Jun 9th, 2002, 10:54am Nancy, Thank you for your words of encouragement. I never have found those little elves again but neither have I had any more HA's either. Knock on wood. I think that the couple that I had were just the beast saying goodbye. Nancy I hope that you can find some relief soon as well. Please keep us informed and don't ever give up. My wife is very worried about you. If you need either one of us then hit us directly if you have to. Take care everyone. Rick have fun typing. :D I have not noticed if the stems hit harder than the caps. I will pay more attention next time. Later. Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 9th, 2002, 1:49pm Scott, So I was asking those elves "how do you guys do it?", and they gave me this list: http://www.lilshopofspores.com/ http://www.sporeworks.com/ http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/scgg.html http://www.fanaticus.com/index.htm I thanked them. LOVE to Nancyc! -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by nancyc on Jun 9th, 2002, 8:55pm Scott, great news...and tell your wife thanks so much for me...please keep us posted...and if you catch one of those little elves, send him to me...I need an elf around LOL....Rick, love you too bro....You guys are both keeping the shroom news alive and we appreciate it ....PFDAN to both of you bros...smiles,nancyc |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 10th, 2002, 6:00pm Hello all, found this board about 7 days ago and still reading and printing!!! Thoughts on shrooms and mid cycle? I WISH I had found this board prior to my cycle so I could have started the "therapy" at the begining of my cycle (seems this is best?) Also, first try at Imitrex last night (been afraid to use it)took 25mg then 45min later another 25mg. lessened pain somewhat, but felt nauseous this am. Could be coincidence with huge fire in Colo. not sure. Others the same nauseous feeling with Imitrex ? Been 20 yrs or so since I visited the magic shroom deal but will go there in a heartbeat to stay off of meds. Also, stay off of Imitrex if I opt for shrooms? I want to try and hold off till weekend to do them. "what a long strange trip it has been" and it SUCKS having to dread going to sleep at night |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 10th, 2002, 6:12pm PS. This site has helped greatly putting a word with a symptom. But one has me baffled a little. Shadows - is this that feeling one has in your typical CH area (for me behind right eye area) when you are in the cycle, but know it is not an actual CH coming on? sort of a statement from the beast that he is there? I have been trying and trying to describe to my fiance' that "feeling" but can not put it into words, but shadow seems to fit. Thanks SteveColo |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by eyes_afire on Jun 10th, 2002, 6:59pm Hi Steve, I'm a Steve also. I believe Imitrex interferes with the shrooms. It would be best to search the archives for some posts by PinkSharkMark because he explains many of the medicines which may have an impact on shrooms. One of the main side-effects of Imitrex is nausea. To me 'shadows' are the feeling I get while in cycle... not a full-blown attack... but the pressure, burning eye, slight dull pain or feeling of fullness, and the sense of impending doom that an attack is near, just waiting to happen. It's kinda hard to explain. Concerning medicine and shrooms: Use the link that Kristi posted on the thread 'eating stems as opposed to caps'. That's the archived discussion I was thinking of from Pinky. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by nancyc on Jun 10th, 2002, 10:28pm have to wait so many days between imitrex or any triptans and shrooms...i think it is atleast 48 to 72 but ask my bud, Pinky...good luck. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 11th, 2002, 2:08am SteveC, I began dosing during a cycle, and while I have been unable to completely break it, I am not in pain anymore. I am hoping I will be able to let up soon, and see if the cycle has stopped altogether. The best success stories I have heard have been complete abortion of cycles by dosing before the cycle begins. Like you, I did not discover this therapy until midway through my cycle. I was on a lot of meds at the time, and I started without totally detoxing first. It worked, slowly, but it did work. I was no longer in severe pain when I started to dose, but I still had some pain. After a few weeks I was fine, so I stopped dosing. Mistake! The beast came back with a vengeance. No problem though, because as soon as I began again, life was beautiful! By this time, I had totally detoxed from meds for almost a month, and I saw more relief come even faster than the first time. Since then, I've been afraid to stop dosing again. My advice to you would be this: Detox! Particularly if you have a limited amount of shrooms. You want your "ammunition" to be as effective as possible against the beast, so give your body the best fighting chance you can give it while using this natural medication. There is still much debate as to if mixing medications with shrooms will reduce their effectiveness. My school of thought is that I don't want to even run the risk of disrupting this process, so I do not take anything. I took two Tylenol one day after therapy, and it was slightly aggravating. I don't even use caffeine anymore. Imitrex and the other triptans would probably block the benefits of psilocybin more than most drugs would. Email Pinky if you'd like to ask him about this, he's a good guy and has always been very helpful to me. Be prepared, you may experience complete relief after one dose. Or, like myself, you may need to dose every 5-10 days for the next three months. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you, and please keep us posted in detail on how you are doing! Hope you get PFDAN soon, -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 11th, 2002, 8:17am Thanks for the input, I will post updates when I try the alternative therapy. (hopefully this weekend; gotta find those lil elves lol) Did alot of reading last night (just waiting for the beast to return) and found tons of information written by pink (I think). Thanks All SteveColo |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by notseinfeld on Jun 11th, 2002, 9:21am Good grief---we're a mushroom cult! For those reading about or attempting to ameliorate the horrible condition we're in, a must view is here: http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psilocybin-solution/ This is by far the best and most interesting piece of information I have come across on the topic of mushrooms and the depth of inherent worldly information available to mankind. The author lists the entire dossier online in chapters and there's not one section that won't have you titillated and sitting on the edge of your seat. Enjoy! nots |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottwe on Jun 11th, 2002, 11:31pm Just an update for everyone. I have been pain free since June 3'rd. :o :o :o That is eight days and I never did get to redose. That is on one dose of 2mg dried. I will keep you posted. Thanks Rick and Mast and Nancy. Thanks also to my wife. Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by nancyc on Jun 11th, 2002, 11:37pm That made my day, bro...i am so happy for you and your family...you will never know how much...love you, and smiles! |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 12th, 2002, 2:41am WHOO-HOO!!!! Praying for you that it keeps going. -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 12th, 2002, 12:03pm Hi Scott, GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!! I hope it continues for you. I will be trying therapy this weekend. I am mid cycle now(friggin brutal one) and have never wanted the weekend to arrive so badly. Please update when you have a chance. Good luck Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 12th, 2002, 12:50pm Steve, Please remember to keep in mind: It may not work overnight, it may take a few doses before you start to notice some results, particularly if you are in mid-cycle. As Flash once told me: "It could get a whole lot worse before it gets better". Although the longer you are off of all meds, I would think that you would see results faster. It may take 2 days before you begin to notice any results, or even longer. Or, you may see immediate results. I know that I have discussed in the past with TommyD and PinkSharkMark the possibility that dosing during a cycle may require a higher initial dose or multiple treatments a bit closer to a recreational sized dose. You may want to take this into consideration, but please remember to be careful, and be aware of what you yourself are tolerant of. For me, there is no question between chosing this over the pain. Like myself, TommyD, and Notseinfeld, you may require treatments on a regular basis for a awhile until your cycle runs it's course. While this may require a fair amount of shrooms, if you experience the results that we have, you will be out of pain as long as you keep up on treatments until the cycle is done. You may also...er...want to talk to those shroom elves about setting yourself up with a proper supply of medication. 8) Please remember to stay off those meds, I know from personal experience how that can suck, but for myself, it was well worth it. And remember to give yourself at least five days between treatments. Good luck, I hope and pray you experience what we have. -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 12th, 2002, 12:52pm Steve, And please remember to keep us posted in detail ;D. Thank you, -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 12th, 2002, 2:31pm Rick, Thanks for the input. I have been thru at least 1 full package of paper printing out all I can find here about this topic. VERY well done and informative. AND I will provide updates for sure. Question: Last night will be the last night for Imitrex 50mg tabs (for detox). ANY FRIGGIN suggestions on how to get me thru tonight and tomorrow night until Friday nights dose? One night I did coffee and seemed to postpone until the next night (maybe a fluke). Like I said in an earlier post I am RIGHT at my peak in frequency and INTENSITY. And I just recently resorted to Imitrex (side effects not good for me, but it alleviates the pain sometimes/somewhat). How about Excedrin? anybody know if this will block the virtues of the upcoming dose? I do NOT want to do this "cold turkey" NO NO NO Thanks Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by eyes_afire on Jun 12th, 2002, 6:20pm Hi SteveColo. I don't know if this will be possible for you since you will be dosing very soon, but my survival plan is going to be oxygen and ice when the time comes. Some people even use welding oxygen. My advice for anyone detoxing would be to try oxygen, but make sure flow rate is 9-12 L/min and you have a non-rebreather mask. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 12th, 2002, 10:37pm Steve, Yeah, that's the part that really sucks :(. Ice packs are my best friends, with or without meds when I'm getting hit. The suggestions of Eyes Afire sound best. I have never personally used oxygen, but I would think there would be no problem with that as well. Caffeine, for me, is an aggravator. I've gone without java since I began mushroom therapy. As for Excedrin, I don't know what to tell you from a scientific standpoint, having no empirical evidence. I can tell you this: Flash has had more success with this treatment than anyone, and his school of thought is no meds at all, cold turkey. It would take me some time right now to read over some info in order to explain how Imitrex can act as an inhibitor. Without knowing how to explain it in detail at the moment, I can tell you that I believe Imitrex and the triptan family of drugs may block the benefits of shroom therapy more so than most drugs. You may need to give yourself at least 5 days or so away from it before beginning therapy. I could be wrong on the time frame, but I am almost certain that triptans will act as inhibitors to the shrooms. Pinky can give you the story in detail if you email him. I didn't go cold turkey when I first started, I was still on Doxepin. Everyone else who has begun therapy recently seemed to have had faster results than I did at the beginning. My headaches immediately dropped from excruciating to painful after one dose. After dose 2, they went from painful to tolerable. They continued to diminish in frequency and intensity with each consecutive dose, and appeared to be almost gone until I stopped therapy a little too early. 9 days after dose 5, I was in Kip 8 hell again. So I started over, and after one dose, things settled down to a tolerable level once more. After a second dose, I felt great again. I've been dosing once a week ever since, I believe it's been about 5 weeks or so, and I've been fine. When I dosed only once in a 17 day span during my current regimen, I could feel the shadows starting to creep up again, so I've kept up on taking them once every 7 days. Hope this is helpful, stay in touch, -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 12th, 2002, 11:09pm Should I change my name to Scott's wife?? :) Scott is still painfree. IT IS A MIRACLE. And we did not even do it by the book. Found the info. mid-cycle just like several others. Did not want him to wait until the next cycle - wanted this one TO END! Figured if it didn't work, then we would try again next cycle. And what the hell?!?! - one dose stopped the cycle cold! I cannot begin to say how hard it has been to get my mind to grasp that shrooms, of all things, are the "cure" and that they work so well for so many people. But we never would have known if not for this site - oh, how I love you DJ - and for the genius and commitment of flash and pinky - my heroes. And then there were all the others who posted their results. Scott was hurting, so I just kept lurking here and reading and reading, and I found myself getting so excited I could hardly contain it. The rest is history. SO TO WHOEVER READS THIS POST AND TRIES SHROOMS IN THE FUTURE - POST EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY LITTLE DETAIL AND POST IT OVER AND OVER!! You have no idea what clusterhead or clusterheart may be out there lurking and reading and LEARNING from what you write. On to the important stuff: Rick - we have appreciated so much your emails and information and have prayed that you will continue to get relief with your therapy. Hope you are pain free and we have told the little elves that you are a very special person and that they must be very good to you! Notseinfield - I laughed so hard about the mushroom cult comment I was crying. I think we should call ourselves that from now on. I promise to be on the front lines recruiting every new member I possible can. Love it! SteveColo -Scott was mid-cycle and not completely off all meds when he dosed. I know he is an exception to the norm, but the shrooms worked anyway. 2 grams, in pinky's tea. But if at all possible, follow Rick's advice and detox completely - might as well give it your best shot! Scott has had tremendous luck (note, luck) but would have taken weekly dosing and any improvement he could get. That was the most we had hoped for. ps....I told the elves to come find you....I too have printed more than a ream of paper to date, just on the shroom subject. I now call it the "shroom bible." As for the medication interactions and detoxing, I will paste some of pinky's writings on the subject.. continued............................ |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 12th, 2002, 11:15pm Notes from Pinksharkmark: (I am copying this directly from pinky's post - none of it comes from me, as I am not this smart!!) ************************************************** When it comes to interactions with other medications, we are faced with a significant challenge. Virtually all clinical research into the effects of psilocybin and LSD ceased in the early 1970's, when they were criminalized in the United States. In theory it is still possible to obtain a research license allowing experimentation with these and other Schedule 1 compounds, but in practice the complexity and inertia of the governmental approval process is so overwhelming that very few researchers have the stamina to see it through to the end. As a result, there are few studies to refer to regarding interaction with drugs in existence before 1971, and no clinical information at all on drugs developed since then. However, there are some medications which are known to reduce or eliminate entirely the effectiveness of psilocybin (and LSD). 1) All ergot compounds, such as ergotamine, Sansert (methysergide), cafergot, DHE 45 (di-hydro ergotamine), methergine, to name the ones most commonly used in treating CH. 2) First-generation anti-psychotics such as Thorazine. 3) Opiates and synthetic opiates, such as codeine, oxycontin, heroin, morphine, tramadol, methadone, demerol, laudanum, opium, and others. It is still unclear whether these compounds will reduce the effectiveness of psilocybin in treating cluster headaches, but it is well known that opiate addicts get less "high" on mushrooms and LSD than non-addicts will. There are also medications that will increase the effects of psilocybin (and LSD): 1) A class of compounds known as MAOIs (monoamine oxydase inhibitors). There are few MAOIs being prescribed today. Most have been replaced by newer-generation compounds, but there are still a few in use, mainly for psychiatric conditions. 2) Lithium. Lithium has the same effect as an MAOI. It has been reported by several "recreational" users of psilocybin and LSD that Lithium will roughly double the psychoactive effects of a given dose of psilocybin (or LSD). It is unclear whether it will also double the CH-fighting properties, but we have one report from a clusterhead who deliberately took some Lithium immediately before ingesting mushrooms and had a much more intense experience for a few hours than he had bargained for. In his case, the psilocybin also killed the headaches, but it is probable that he would have achieved the same relief with less stress. 3) Dissociative anesthetics such as ketamine, PCP (phencyclidine) and DXM (dextromethorphan). There are medications that we suspect will interfere with the action of psilocybin (or LSD): 1) Any of the triptans, such as Imitrex, Amerge, Zomig, Maxalt. These compounds are chemically quite similar to psilocybin. For example, Imitrex (sumatriptan) is basically sulfonated DMT (di-methyl tryptamine) while psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT. 2) Any of various serotonergic medications classified as SSRIs (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors) and Tri-Cyclic antidepressants. This covers a number of medications sometimes used to treat CH: amitryptaline and nortryptaline, Zyprexa (olanzapine), Depakote (divalproex sodium), to name a few continued.... |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 12th, 2002, 11:16pm There are some medications which may interfere with psilocybin (and LSD): 1) anti-convulsants or anti-epileptic medications such as Neurontin (gabapentin) and Topamax (topiramate). The exact mechanism by which topiramate works, for example, is still unknown, so it is impossible to even guess whether or not it will interfere with psilocybin. 2) medications which are either synthetic analogs of certain hormones or which regulate hormone production: Prednisone and Synthroid, for example. There is no direct evidence to suggest that these drugs will interact with psilocybin, but hormones have a very complex and inter-related effect on numerous body systems. We have seen a few reports on this message board suggesting that thyroid levels play a part in cluster headaches. 3) tranquilizers and mood-altering medications such as Xanax, Valium, Prozac and Wellbutrin. There are medications which will probably not interfere with the actions of psilocybin: 1) antibiotics 2) NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) such as tylenol (acetaminophen), aspirin, ibuprofen, Vioxx (rofecoxib), etc. 3) antacids and anti-ulcer medications 4) asthma medications 5) insulin It must be noted that the above category reflects my personal opinions. I have seen no reports of interactions with these medications, and I suspect that the mechanisms by which these medications act is too different from the action by which psilocybin and LSD work for there to be any significant interaction, but I wouldn't want to bet my life's savings on it. Finally, there are the Calcium Channel Blockers. The most popular CCB used by clusterheads is verapamil. We have received reports of clusterheads achieving complete success with psilocybin while taking verapamil. I have also seen reports from chronics whose only medication at the time of their psilocybin trials was verapamil, who failed to get any significant relief. Was this lack of success due to interaction with verapamil? I don't know. I am open to argument on this one. Verapamil does act on a certain subgroup of serotonin receptors, but it appears not to be the same subgroup that psilocybin and LSD act on. For the moment, I will tentatively classify the CCBs as a category of medications that may not completely block the action of psilocybin, at least for some individuals. I reserve the right to change that opinion as more data becomes available. The above information can be found in the following thread: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1013709016 GOOD LUCK AND PFDAN!! Kristi |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 12:48am Thank you, Kristi! An excerpt from what you have just posted above: 1) Any of the triptans, such as Imitrex, Amerge, Zomig, Maxalt. These compounds are chemically quite similar to psilocybin. For example, Imitrex (sumatriptan) is basically sulfonated DMT (di-methyl tryptamine) while psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT. What I wanted to explain to Steve was this: Psilocybin and the triptans are quite similar, as Pinky has stated. Your brain will allow psilocybin to be absorbed once every 5-7 days. After you dose, this window of opportunity to absorb psilocybin closes for that 5-7 day period. The triptans act on a specific group of 5-HT (serotonin) receptors within the brain in order to abort an attack. If I am correct, psilocybin acts upon many groups of 5-HT receptors within the brain, one of which being the group related to CH. Because the triptans and psilocybin are so similar in their chemical makeup, by taking one of the triptans, you may effectively be closing the "window" for the specific group of receptors related to CH for a 5-7 day period. The result: the psilocybin can't get to where it needs to be until the window opens again. And Kristi, your prayers are very much appreciated. I am happy to hear that Scott is still doing well, these stories give us all hope. And I am also very happy that you want to stay on the front lines. When we relay our stories to one another, we give others an opportunity to discover this therapy. Also, staying active on this board allows us to intercept questions and provide support for new shroomers. We've got to "spread the love". So if we're now the "Cult of Fungus", I guess Pink is our high priest... 8) 8) 8) |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 13th, 2002, 9:16am Thanks everyone for the support, update; last dose of imitrex tuesday night, Wednesday night; Roughly an hour and a half prior to my "time", took ff 700mg tabs, then paced like a wild man, took 3 ibu 200mg/, more pacing, then shadows started coming, then took 70 drops of ff tincture (keep in mind I have been off/on ff for +/- month so it is my system), then started pounding water (water treatment) like no tomorrow (3 BIG glasses), then HEAVY SHADOWS (almost on the brink of attack but not quite there), then I remembered reading about someone riding bike like mad and aborting CH, soooooo....I started doing push-ups, jumping jacks, jogging in place (not good one, stopped that one right away) got heart rate going really good, did ice pack after all the while closing right eye so as to not let ANY sliver of light accidently slip in. AND I ACTUALLY DODGED ONE!!!!!!! RARE RARE RARE just one more night (thursday) to sweat out before therapy Kristi/Scott - you guys wish pretty well lol, those lil elves came thru last night....so I am ready...been thinking about the purchase of a bug zapper for entertainment purposes ...er ummm...damn bugs really bad here now. also I am new here and not familiar with all the fellow sufferers; scott was episodal and mid cycle right? and 2 g did the trick? dried? level achieved? elve procurement, or nature picking or grow? (is there a difference is potency) I am trying to determine what level and dosage I need to achieve for mid cycle therapy Rick, I dug up some archives on your therapy, sounds like you had a bit of a rough go for awhile, (I think) but it does sound like after 1st dose you at least had a couple of days of some relief...If that is all what I get, SOME relief for a day or two I will be a happy camper, just a small break at this point to get one full night of sleep will be considered a success for me. and your comment in a post about "it took me awhile to type this" LOL....I bet it did... LOL Eyes, thanks for the oxygen advice...my honey has a friend with a supply...I have never used it....and IF/WHEN I am able to skip a night due to ff or whatever it comes back the next with a vengence....I may need a crash course on how to use it to get thru tonight... and friggin A... LOL...you gotta be a chemist to understand some of these writings...(wishing I had taken chemistry classes a lil more seriously) One thing that has not made sense....one person...(I have read so much I am loosing track of who wrote what)..that they took a small piece of cap and put under tongue for every attack and it was aborted.....this occured approx 4-5 times then did a tea after that...why would the initial piece not block further therapies or was the "piece therapy" not strong enough to do the blocking deal? Thanks Steve Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 13th, 2002, 10:24am PS. can someone please link me to the level 1,2,3,etc. monitor deal? I have been trying and trying to find for an hour but can not recall where it was Thanks Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 11:47am Can we officially dub this the "Pink Scale" so we don't have to type out "psychoactive level on Pinky's scale from Important Notes on Mushroom Therapy Part 1" when we talk about it? ;D: There is an equivalent of the "Kip Scale" that is commonly accepted by "recreational" users to measure the effects of a dose of mushrooms: Level 1 This level produces a mild "stoning" effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colors, etc). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound "wider". Level 2 Brighter colors, and some subtle visual anomalies (i.e. objects appear to slightly shift position or "breathe"), some 2 dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in creativity becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed. Level 3 Very obvious visual distortions: everything looking curved and/or warped, patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or "mother of pearl" surfaces. Closed eye images become 3 dimensional. There is some confusion of the senses (i.e. seeing sounds as colors, etc). Time distortions and "moments of eternity". Level 4 Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. (Things start talking to you, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously). Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and e.s.p. type phenomena. Blending of the senses. Level 5 Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived ceases to exist. Satori enlightenment (and other such labels). Most episodic clusterheads will need to achieve somewhere around a Level 1 or Level 1.5 experience in order to terminate their cycle. A few episodics have had success at even lower levels, but a few have had to reach Level 2. Most chronic clusterheads will need to take enough to achieve a Level 1.5 or Level 2 experience. In particularly stubborn cases, even higher doses may be required. CarlD, for example, reported a few months of painfree time after reaching (from his brief description) Level 3. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 13th, 2002, 12:41pm SteveC; To answer your earlier post, yes Scott has been episodic for 11 years. He was peaking in his current cycle when he dosed. He was already mid-cycle, like you, when we found and researched the shroom details. No time to farm, too scared to pick, so we found the magic elves. Exactly 2 grams, dried, no idea what variety. He made pinky's tea...here is the link... http://www.clusterheadaches.com/wwwboard/messages2/110213.html I know that different batches of shrooms can have different potencies. I also know that it takes more fresh shroom than dried, because fresh shrooms still have the water in them. Either Pinky or Flash had some commentary on fresh/dried issue, but I cannot for the life of me find it in these mounds of papers and threads. Sorry! Rick - are you familiar with this one? As for level reached, he was shooting for 2, as suggested. He definitely got the brighter colors (as evidence by his new love of bug zappers ;D) and says some subtle visual anomolies. But he also got some slight level 3 stuff too. So from what I have read, this probably qualifies as a higher initial dose, which may be why it was so effective even mid-cycle. He did de-tox for 24 hours on some meds and 12 hours on others. We did not know the half-life of them, but figured some would still be in his system. Also, Scott has now weaned off ALL meds. and feels great - no more insomnia, depression, anxiety, or other side affects. This is the first time he has been drug free for more than 4 years. So when the next cycle approaches, he will dose in advance, med-free, and we will pray that our luck holds (maybe it's not really luck, I know Pinky, but it feels like it right now...I keep expecting to wake up....) I will be thinking about you tonight Steve and praying for your success. Scott or I will probably be on here - shout if you need us. PFDAN....Kristi |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 12:47pm Yes, Steve, it was a roller coaster ride for me in the beginning. That's precisely why I've kept hanging out here. I had to learn by trial and error, and at times things were great, and other times things were rough. If those of us who have gone through that trial and error period would continue to hang out here, we could potentially save others a lot of the trouble that we ourselves have experienced. Here are what I believe to have been my biggest mistakes when I began mushroom therapy: 1. Not detoxing completely before beginning therapy. 2. Slowing down on therapy too soon. I wanted to see if the cycle was ending on its own, and when I stopped dosing for 9 days, I was in hell. I then gave myself another 17 days off I believe, and my cycle became full blown again. I thought I may have needed a break from the shrooms, but I now believe that this was a mistake. When I began dosing again, after having detoxed completely for about 5 weeks at that point, I believe, everything got better in a matter of days. I don't think I should have stopped dosing at all. 3. Not having a scale. I was eyeing my doses. Now that I have a scale, I can see that when things were a bit rocky early on, I was taking doses which were way too small too soon. While I can get by on 1 gram per dose now, I should have been taking at least 1.5 to 2 grams in the beginning. Look at the fantastic results Scott has had so far from an initial 2 gram dose. All of this adds further support to PinkSharkMark and TommyD's theory of the possibility of higher initial doses being needed for some individuals. I would think that in your case, Steve, you should take this into consideration, since you are about to try to knock down the beast in mid-cycle. The "shroom under the tongue" technique was used by Monique's husband, Greg. As we have discussed already, you are only able to use an effective dose of psilocybin every 5-7 days, after which the "window of opportunity" closes. Monique and Greg realised that trying to abort single attacks would effectively close that window, which would not allow Greg's brain to absorb the important therapeutic doses he needed. There's an old thread somewhere in these archives where Monique and I are discussing this, and, as usual, the Pink One had enlightened her on the matter, and she passed the info on to me. It's a learning experience! But the more we learn, the more we need to share with each other. We can, in time, iron some of the wrinkles out of this process by continually communicating with each other. Good luck, brother! I'll be praying for you, -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 12:59pm Kristi, I know what your talking about, but not where to find it. It's no big deal, I believe it was Pink that stated that it was important to dry out your shrooms completely so that you could weigh them accurately. If you weigh them undried, you cannot tell exactly how much water weight the shrooms are retaining. Also, speaking of dosing before your next cycle, don't forget the importance of dosing at the mid-point between your cycles. I believe Flash doses every 6 months. Much love to everybody, -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 13th, 2002, 1:01pm Rick / Steve: Are you guys going to the convention? We got our plane tickets a couple of days ago and are sooooo excited! ;D ;D ;D ;D It would be amazing to be able to meet you in person and celebrate your success! Hell, it will be wonderful to get to meet everyone! PFDAN....Kristi p.s. Scott thinks they should give out shrooms as a door prize! |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 1:50pm Kristi, I'd love to meet you guys, Steve, and Mr. Notseinfeld. Unfortunately, I've got a lot of financial catching up to do, after missing so much work in this last cycle. Plus I have to go to New York with my girl to visit her and Grandma, and that's priority. And, I lost a planned trip to visit dear friends in London due to this last cycle >:( :P. I'd still like to try and make up that one, but I don't know if the $$$ will be there. I'm also aiming to switch jobs in September if possible. :o A lot going on for me right now. How about a Cult of Fungus field trip to the Dominican Republic to visit and give thanks to the Pink One someday? I know my girl would be down...and we could lie in the sun ;D. -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 13th, 2002, 2:50pm Rick, Methinks a trip to "Republica Dominica" sounds wonderful, maybe we could shoot for 2003. By then we could have enough people involved to qualify as a real "cult" and get a group discount on travel! SteveC, I read Rick's recent post about weighing the dose and not having a scale. Do you have one? I agree with Rick that it is crucial that you make sure to do a big enough dose the first time around. We did not have a scale and I was scared to death Scott would do way too much or way too little. So, I hit the archives and found an old thread that led to the following hand-made scale: Take a section of a coat hanger or a stick or something and hang it suspended in the middle by a string. Hook a baggy to each end (we used tape). Adjust the position of the string until it hangs even. One ml of water weighs 1 gram, so we used a medicine dropper (easy for us - we have a young child who takes liquid medicine!) and put 2 ml in one baggy, since Scott wanted to do 2 grams. Then we put shrooms in the other baggy unil the coat hanger was level again. May seem archiac, but it will probably get you closer to the dosage you want than eyeballing it. Oh, and Scott says definitely do 2 grams the first time. Once again, good luck. Kristi |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 13th, 2002, 3:20pm Hi Kristi, Please have Scott check his private messages on here. If you do not know how...upper right corner top of the page....it will say...Hey Scotte..you have 1 message....hit the word (message) there and he can read it I just discovered how to use it.....I had a message in there for days LOL I will be back later....gotta run to a meeting THANKS!!!!!! Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jun 13th, 2002, 4:26pm TommyD should also pack tanning oil for next year... 8). Maybe we could get even get Mr. Flash to travel from Scotland. Don't worry Pink, we'll stay at hotels (can't we all crash on your floor, dude? ;D ;D ;D). |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by johnrudd on Jun 13th, 2002, 7:33pm Don't wish to put a damper on your exuberance, but BE CAREFUL. The site I use at work monitors EVERY single transmission. Are you sure you're secure. There are great cow paddies in WA. for you to search out-they do grow wild! So don't be foolish enough to carry. In my current line, I'm afraid I'll stick to the Verapamil and Imitrex. In any case, there have been times where I would've resorted to anything to just stop the pain! John |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jun 13th, 2002, 8:01pm Thanks johnrudd, for your words of caution. I for one am secure, at least from the prying "eyes" of my employer, on my personal computer at home. My hubby never posts from work, out of caution. He always waits 'til he is home at night. I work at home (but have a different 'puter in a home office for that), which explains why you see so much more of me than him. ;D As for the pain, he finally decided to hell with worrying 'bout work, a pain-free life is more important than a job. For us, just seemed there are bigger things at stake. Here's hoping you continue to get relief with the meds that work for you!!! PFDAN! Kristi |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by SteveColo on Jun 14th, 2002, 9:50am Hi Kristi/Scott, Rick, and all the others Kristi, thanks for the info you post yesterday on the info.. I had run across that a few days earlier, printed it and place in my "mushroom bible file" LOL I am sure others following this thread appreciated though (the views are really hitting alot on this, so alot of people are at least intrigued) PS. tell Scott to check his pvt msgs if he has a chance. Rick, thanks for the Pinky scale....just could not find that puppy again. AND all your other input and advice. You have really hung on here for everybody. I admire your sticktoitiveness. Update on me. made it thru the afternoon and night with HEAVY shadows and strong twingles (for me 2 secs later after the twingles I get hammered) but nothing really strong ever hit. This moring I am getting shadows and some slight twingles but so far so good. But I hit the feverfew again (Last night high dose) and Excedrins. The ff is a hit/miss deal but I feel it has some degree of merit.....I have been doing it for many years now and takes time to build up in system, but the trick seems for me anyway to play with dosages (after build up in system) and deal with strong tincture. (it is nasty as hell as far as taste) Tuesday night (now Fri AM where I live) was last night for script. meds (Imitrex) I have only resorted to it when things get intense. It does not do my body good at all. maybe I am sensitive to it or something, but I am suprised to see that alot of other people not complaining about it. just get a bad "racey" feeling the entire next day and "out of sorts" or distorientated may be a better word. ANWAY tonights the night PFDAN to all BTW only computer access is at work right now. home one is having its own Ch's going on now LOL so will try and drop by office sometime and report. Thanks Steve |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jun 19th, 2002, 7:24pm Rick, Stecolor, and all the rest of the members of the Cult of Fungus., I am excited to report that as of right now I am still pain free since the two CH that I had right after. I think my wife posted the other day that I was doing well and even had the math done for the days. Currently, 21 days since dosing, 15 days since the last CH, 13 days since the last shadow. I haven't wanted to look a gift horse in the mouth so I have remained quiet here in the beginning. I am really waiting for the one month mark to get here before I relax too much. I will be redosing periodically. I will let you all know how much and how often. Stecolor - man I am happy for you. I hope that everybody can do this and get this kind of relief. Rick - I think that you are on to something there about the two doses. Maybe a person needs to at least touch the 3 level to kick the beast's ass the first time. I know a lower dose might work, but I think that I will keep the tried and true going. Later, scottie :o :o :o :o :o :o ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jul 2nd, 2002, 9:57pm Hey fellow clusterheads. Thought I would post a little update to my situation. I AM NOW AT ONE MONTH PAIN FREAKING FREE. It feels great. I am planning on farming so that I have enough to dose at the six month mark and then a pre-emptive strike before my next cycle. I can only hope that I have as much success as Flash and the rest of the old school gang. As far as the meds go I am still off all meds except for stupid cold meds. I can't seem to shake this cough. I guess that it is time to quit smoking. Well anyway I know that there has been a lot of people inquiring about our new therapy and for those people that need someone then I know that I and my wife as well as probably Rick and Stec will be willing to help "hold your hand" through this. I will try to keep on here more but I can't seem to keep my wife off long enough. I think that she is becoming the Florence Nightingale of the cult of fungus therapy for clusterheads. I am sure glad that she is able to be of some help to others because she has been a rock for me. I would not want to think about where I would be in this life without her. Well that is about all I have for now. PFDAN to everyone out there. I love you all. Scottie :o :-* P.S. Slammy, my wife says :@ |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 2nd, 2002, 10:46pm Scottie, SWEEEEET! -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 3rd, 2002, 9:42am on 06/13/02 at 09:16:43, SteveColo wrote:
Okay, I'm going to try to explain this seeming anomaly without getting TOO technical. First, the individual involved, Monique's husband Greg, seems to be exceptionally sensitive to psilocybin, and seems to be able to get the full effects at much shorter intervals than the average individual. In other words, he seems not to need to take as long a break between doses. Secondly (and here I must get a little technical), the way the psilocybin produces its effects is to occupy receptor sites in the nerve synapses in the brain which are normally occupied by serotonin. A synapse which contains a molecule of psilocybin will send a slightly different signal "up the line" than one which contains a serotonin molecule. One of the effects of this slightly different signal is to produce the famous "psychedelic experience". It follows that the more such signals are being sent, the stronger the experience. The thing is, there are billions of these receptor sites. With a very low dose of psilocybin, only a few million molecules of psilocybin actually make it across the blood brain barrier to become available to the synapses in question. This is apparently enough to abort a headache in progress, and those synapses which received their psilocybin molecules dutifully "close the window" for a few days. But such a tiny fraction of the available synapses do so that when another small dose is taken (under the tongue) the next day, the majority of sites are still capable of accepting the new batch of psilocybin molecules. However, there DOES seem to be a "critical mass". If a large enough dose is taken to produce any noticeable psychedelic effects, even at a "Level 1" intensity, it appears the affected synapses not only "close the window", but send a message to all the OTHER synapses to close THEIR windows, too. This is why it is impossible to get high two days in a row. A waiting period of several days is mandatory, at least for MOST individuals. pinky |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Bob P on Jul 3rd, 2002, 9:57am Pinky, Gotta question your explaination of receptor sites. I do believe that each different type of receptor site (on the neuron not in the synapse) sends it's chemical signal when activated. A psylocin molecule occupying say a 5HT-1a site would send the same signal as a 5HT-1a molecule occupying that receptor site. I don't think it sends a slightly different signal. The sites are programmed to send their specific chemical message when activated. The psylocin probably activates the the correct 5HT sub-type sites to stop the headache and also activates other sub-type sites which produce the high. Each then sending it's "specific" chemical message. I don't think you can get a receptor site to send a different chemical message than it is programmed to send. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Slammy on Jul 3rd, 2002, 5:56pm Scottie! That is sooo awsome ! I'm happy for your success and for such a supportive wife! ( relax Rick) Being in Southern California, I need to figure out how I can "try" this approach.... The Beast attacked me from 1am till 2am last night, and I swear, if I owned a gun, I would have shot that beast between the eyes! Hoping for PFDANs forever for ya! Give kristi a :@ for me! Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jul 3rd, 2002, 10:24pm Thanks for all of the kind words Slammy. I am appreciative of everyone on this board. PFDAN. Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 3rd, 2002, 11:23pm Slammy, >:(ROAR!!! ;D :-*Peace brotha-R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jul 3rd, 2002, 11:31pm Hi Rick! :-* -Kristi |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 4th, 2002, 1:07am What's up K? Much love and happy 4th to you, Scott, and your little one ;D :-* ;D :-* :)... Let's keep on praying that this isn't all a dream ;). |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jul 4th, 2002, 6:17am Much love and Happy 4'th to you as well bro. I am still Pain Free and am loving every minute of it. Amen to the prayer for all of us. I hope that the heads out where the shrooms ain't can find some other means to get here with us. Happy 4'th of July to all the "Heads" out there. My Family sends it's prayers and thanks to everyone. :) :-* Keep it together my "other Family". ;) Scott |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by JeffBob on Jul 4th, 2002, 9:36am Hello everyone, I've dealt with the beast since 18 yrs old now 44 looking for advice for Florida shrooms. How many should I look for and how do you now what is the correct dose? Thanks JeffBob |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by kristi on Jul 4th, 2002, 9:57am Hi and Welcome JeffBob!.....sorry you have to be here. :'( First of all, when you say "look for" are you talking about picking or about finding the "magic elves" and getting them from them. Picking them is a very dangerous business, because of making sure you have the right thing, instead of something that could make you very ill or even kill you. Please be careful! The most important thing to remember about how much to take is that it seems to be the trip level you get to, not the amount you consume, that will break the cycle. Different strains have different potencies, and different batches also. Plus, some people are more sensitive than others. One person may achieve a level two trip level with one gram, but it may take two grams for someone else. The desired trip level is a 1.5 to 2.5 experience. However, the evidence of many clusterheads seems to suggest that those who are mid-cycle or not completely detoxed from all meds appear to need to reach a higher trip level in order to achieve results. From personal experience, my husband is episodic and was mid-cycle when he dosed. He took 2 grams dried. He reached a trip level of 2.5 to 3. He had 4 shadows and 2 headaches in the first five days, and nothing since. That was 36 days ago!!! An explanation of trip levels, dosing guidelines, and other great information can be found on the following thread by Pinksharkmark: http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1013709016 Good Luck and PFDAN! K |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 4th, 2002, 12:09pm JB, Picking your own can be very dangerous as Kristi stated. PLEASE consult PinkSharkMark through email before you attempt to do so, or someone else who you know to be an absolute expert in identifying psychedelic mushrooms that would be able accompany you when "hunting". Here is a safer route to quietly and safely produce your own: http://www.lilshopofspores.com/ http://www.sporeworks.com/ http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/scgg.html http://www.fanaticus.com/index.htm Peace, -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 4th, 2002, 12:18pm JB- Here's a portion of a recent post by Pinky dealing with the identification process. I don't know if this info would hold true for the specific strain you would be looking for, and I ask still that you please send him an email with further questions if you do intend to go "hunting": "As for the mushrooms, it is true the kind you are looking for grow on horse manure and on cow patties, but so do other mushrooms. The "bluing" reaction is the most reliable indicator that you have indeed found what you are looking for. If you pick a mushroom, then slice off the cap and the cut in the stem doesn't blue, DO NOT EAT IT no matter how closely it may resemble pictures of the various psilocybes. If it don't stain blue, it ain't good for you. A secondary test is to take a "spore print". Slice off the cap and place it (gill side down) on a piece of white paper. Let it sit for about 24 hours then check the color of the spores that have been deposited. The spores appear as a very fine powder and will be a very dark purplish black (sometimes appearing completely black) or purplish brown. Spores of any other color indicate you may have a different species, EVEN THOUGH there may appear to be a slight bluish reaction. The bluing reaction of the psilocybes is very strong and quite pronounced, but there are some species that will sometimes bruise a sort of greenish color that can be mistaken as a kind of a blue by someone who is prone to wishful thinking, but none of those species have dark purplish spores. As a final warning, sometimes two different species that appear similar to each other will grow from the same clump of manure, sometimes almost intermingled. Make sure that ALL the ones you gather pass the bluing test. pinky" Good luck! ;D-R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by JeffBob on Jul 4th, 2002, 9:33pm JeffBob here Thanks so much for you guys getting back to me so quickly. I do have two little elves that have done shrooms in there younger years, and are quite experienced in picking. I need to find out though how many to use to make the tea at the desired strength I look forward to your advice Thanks again JB |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 5th, 2002, 3:03am JB- That would depend on the strength of the mushrooms you are using. Do you know what strain you'll be picking? I recall back in the day when I would partake in recreational consumption 8), my friend brought some mushrooms back from Florida that he had picked, and they were a bit to the weak side. Here's a link that may help you: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms.shtml Pinky suggests that the benefits of the therapy may come not necessarily from the amount you consume, but in the trip level you reach. Hope you had a great 4th! -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by dannyboy on Jul 5th, 2002, 5:13am Good point about not attracting attention Rick, but there ain't no law against me giving out a contact number for a reliable "herb pharmacist" in South Africa. Any South African sufferers in need of "Fantastique Fungus" can speak to me ... its dried ... but it sure gives a polar bear three heads if you happen to scoff it at the zoo. And there's tons to go around, cheap as anything. Danny |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 6th, 2002, 6:41am on 07/03/02 at 09:57:04, Bob P wrote:
Whoops! It is indeed the PSILOCIN molecule that occupies the receptor site rather than psilocybin (psilocybin is converted to psilocin once it enters the body). Thanks for pointing that out. As for whether the signals sent by the synapses are "digital" or "analog", there is still furious debate on this point in neurological circles. It has not been proven at all that "the sites are programmed to send their specific chemical message when activated". Presuming it is a "digital" phenomenon (i.e. a single identical signal from every type of receptor site no matter what the stimulus), there remain some questions. How many molecules of serotonin (or dopamine or other neurotransmitter) does it take to trigger the signal. One? One hundred? Does the strength or the duration of the signal pulse change depending on the number of molecules involved? What about a very rapid succession of closely spaced pulses? For example a single serotonin molecule may trigger a single pulse of 90 nanoseconds duration. Two molecules binding simultaneously may trigger three pulses of 150 nanoseconds duration with a gap of 20 nanoseconds between them, three molecules may trigger four pulses of 115 nanoseconds with a gap of 60 nanoseconds between the first two and a gap of 30 nanoseconds between the last two, etc. This is similar to the way a computer keyboard works. Ever wonder how it is possible to get signals that produce over two hundred different characters down a cable that has just two connectors? It's because each key doesn't produce a single "on/off" pulse, but rather a series of pulses, sort of like Morse code. Quote:
The problem with this explanation is that it presumes a very large number of as yet unidentified sub-types which have no rational purpose for existing, evolutionarily speaking. Dr. Alexander Shulgin has demonstrated conclusively that humans can reliably differentiate the effects of over two hundred separate hallucinogenic compounds. His subjects had no difficulty telling when they were given, say, LSD or mescaline or MDA or MDMA or bufotenine or psilocybin or 5- MeO DMT or DMT, etc. There is no reason not to presume that if he had access to more than two hundred compounds, the list would be even longer. So the question is, if there ARE different sub-types, and each sub-type sends its own specific signal, each producing its own separate "high", what possible reason could there be for the existence of several hundred (maybe several THOUSAND) specialized receptor sub-types which can be activated ONLY by the presence of chemical compounds which not only don't exist within the human brain, but which aren't even found in nature and until the last twenty years didn't even exist at all? The vast majority of the compounds Dr. Shulgin used were ones he designed and synthesized himself from scratch. Quote:
Some neuropharmacologists hold the same opinion. Many others don't. To me it seems more logical that the shape of the binding molecule (more accurately its electrochemical configuration) elicits a complimentary signal from the receptor site involved. I believe the "digital paradigm" so beloved of computer programmers and the recording industry and others has been used to shoehorn too many explanations into spaces where they don't belong. It's very tempting to try to explain almost EVERYTHING digitally. Programmers tend to forget that computers don't HAVE to be digital. It's no big trick to build analog computers. Charles Babbitt's mechanical computers were analog. And before CDs became the rage, all music was analog, as are all radio and television signals. Some biological systems may in fact turn out to be digital, but I believe most are analog. pinky |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Bob P on Jul 6th, 2002, 9:43am Everything I've read on neurotransmission, and I'm by no means a expert, I only go by what I read, says this: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2. Neurotransmitters bind to receptors: Neurotransmitters float across the synapse until they hit the dendrites of the next neuron. On each dendrite, neurotransmitters find molecules that are set to receive them. These molecules are called receptors. Neurotransmitters recognize specific receptors and "grab"" on to them, a process called binding. (The neuron that originally released the neurotransmitter is the "sending" neuron; the neuron that binds the neurotransmitter is the "receiving" neuron.) Each receptor accepts only certain neurotransmitters, much like a lock accepts only a certain key. After binding is done, receptors let go of the neurotransmitters. At that point, several things can happen. Some neurotransmitters are destroyed by enzymes. In other cases, proteins transport neurotransmitters back to the axon from which they originally came, a process called reuptake. Reuptake allows neurotransmitters to use the same neurotransmitters over again-a kind of "recycling." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ That says to me that say a 5HT-1a neurotransmitter can only bind to a 5HT-1a site. There are about 1000 different receptor sites on the neurons. That some of them are dedicated to "perception" (and hallucinations are just a change in perception) isn't surprising. Also not surprising is that the brain can determine what type of change in perception is occuring and associate it with a certain drug (as the doc you quoted has shown). I'm guessing (just guessing) that psilocin activates a number of neurotransmitters, some deal with perception some with vasoconstriction. The later help with the CH and the first add the hallucinations. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 7th, 2002, 1:04am on 07/06/02 at 09:43:45, Bob P wrote:
Bob and Pink, Wouldn't the hallucinations be caused by synapses which control perception sending a different signal which creates a high as opposed to the signal which they are programmed to send? If not, what causes the actual altered state of perception? Is it an excess of psilocin in the synapse, as opposed to a normal amount of serotonin which it would contain when you are sober? For example, the larger the quantity of hallucinogen one consumes, the harder they trip. Would extreme visuals experienced at level 5 as opposed to mild visuals experienced at level 1 be the result of synapses relating to sight being flooded with psilocin? I'm thinking this excess may cause an altered signal. Thanks, -Rick |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Bob P on Jul 7th, 2002, 8:45am My thinking also Rick. I believe psiocin is a 5HT agonist. That is, it's close enough to 5HT that it can attack to certain 5HT receptor sites and make the site believe it's 5HT and fire it's signal down the axion (axions are negativly charged in their normal state. When a signal is sent by a receptor site, positive ions enter the axion from the surrounding fluid, changing the charge from negative to positive for a few milliseconds). I'm thinking the psiocin actives certain 5HT subtype receptors which control vasoconstriction which stopps the headache. Perhaps these agonists have a real long halflife which makes the effect last so long. Perhaps psilocin also activates certain visual receptor sites causing the halucinations. You may be correct in that there is so much in the snyapse that it over activates the sites. Or perhaps it activates the correct combination of receptor sites to cause the altered state. The trick here is to get away from thinking of the chemical in the synapse as a single thing. ie thinking that serotonin acivates a serotonin site. In fact there are many different serotonin subtype sites and therefore amny different combination could be acivated at the same time cause many different signals to be sent. But it still remains that a receptor site only sends it's singal. An A site sends and A signal. A B site sends a B signal. Activate them both and you get an AB signal much like Pinkys explination of the various keyboard pulses. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 9th, 2002, 10:55am on 07/06/02 at 09:43:45, Bob P wrote:
That is correct, as far as it goes. The thing is, the receptor molecule doesn't necessarily have to ENGULF the entire neurotransmitter molecule in order to achieve binding. A molecule that is substantially similar to the neurotransmitter may also bind to that same receptor site, leaving portions of itself "dangling in the breeze", so to speak. This is why a receptor site designed to bind to serotonin will also accept serotonin "lookalikes". For example, it has been shown that LSD and similar hallucinogens bind to several subtypes of 5-HT receptors. Not only the 5-HT1a receptors, but also 5-HT2a and 2c receptors, and perhaps others as well. Quote:
True. But more than one type of receptor will accept the same neurotransmitter. For example, all 5-HT receptors, no matter the subtype, will accept molecules of serotonin. Quote:
Do you mean to say there are different "flavors" of serotonin? I've never heard of that before. I was taught that any 5-HT receptor, regardless of its subtype, will accept serotonin. The neurotransmitter which binds to a 5-HT1a receptor is serotonin, not "serotonin 1a". The neurotransmitter which binds to a 5-HT2c receptor is also serotonin, not "serotonin 2c". Serotonin binding to one subtype produces a given physiological response, serotonin binding to a different receptor subtype produces a different response. But ALL of the 5-HT receptors initiate their response by capturing serotonin (or serotonin "lookalike") molecules. Quote:
Yet there are nowhere NEAR a thousand different neurotransmitters. At least, science has yet to identify more than a handful of them. Clearly, the same neurotransmitter can be accepted at many subtly different receptor sites, just as a master key will open many superficially different (but fundamentally equivalent) locks. Quote:
According to the best efforts of today's neuropharmacologists, you are correct, if you meant to say "activates a number of receptors" rather than "neurotransmitters". Various studies have shown that psilocin and other chemically similar hallucinogens bind to at least three different subtypes of 5-HT receptors, as I mentioned above. pinky |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 9th, 2002, 11:12am on 07/07/02 at 01:04:29, rick wrote:
That is my position, and the position of the majority of psychedelic researchers. No one knows for sure. The entire question of how neurochemical reactions become interpreted by our consciousness as vision, for example, is still a mystery. This may ALWAYS be the case. Quote:
Excellent question. Some feel that the psilocin operates on a different area of the brain entirely (some as-yet undiscovered area), causing it to send out an odd mix of the standard neurotransmitters, and that it is this off-balance mixture of neurotransmitters which causes the altered perceptions. I personally feel this is incorrect, simply because the chemical similarity between, for example, psilocin and serotonin, is so striking it seems simpler (Occam's razor) to explain the phenomenon by envisioning the psilocin as a "super-serotonin". Quote:
The general thinking on this point is that the more receptors are binding to psilocin, the more vivid the experience. If only three per cent of the 5-HT2a receptors in a person's brain are being stimulated by psilocin, the experience is fairly subtle. If thirty per cent of those receptors are engaged simultaneously, the experience is more vivid. pinky |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Bob P on Jul 9th, 2002, 11:31am Quote:
Oops, got carried away with the zero. There are approximately 100 identified neurotransmitters. From CSU Chico - ".....Neurotransmitters are chemicals which are released into the synaptic space whenever a neuron conducts an action potential to the axon terminals. There are perhaps 100 or so different neurotransmitter varieties in the brain. " Quote:
May be, if you are talking about natural neurotransmitters. Psilocin is not a natural neurotransmitter that is found in the brain. My thinking is more along the lines of unatural or added neurotransmitters. Much like Imitrex only works on a few 5HT subtype receptors, not all 5HT receptors, perhaps psilocin does the same. Quote:
No. Again as above, I'm referring to a substances ability to activate only certain sub-type receptors, like Imitrex and other triptans. Back to the original discussion though, I'm still of the belief that each receptor site can only send it's preprogramed action potential through the neuron. You can't hook a psilocin molecule to a 5HT-whatever receptor and make it send a different action potential. You could, however, activate the right combination of receptor sites and their combined action potential message would be different. To use your keyboard example, each key sends it's own programed pulse but used in different combinations they spell different words. |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by pinksharkmark on Jul 9th, 2002, 11:46am on 07/07/02 at 08:45:28, Bob P wrote:
Perhaps. Yet all current knowledge shows there are no traces of psilocin (or any known metabolites of psilocin) left anywhere in the body less than 24 hours after ingestion. The vasoconstrictive properties of the psychedelics might explain why they can stop an ongoing headache in its tracks, but not how they can terminate an entire CH cycle. Quote:
Agreed. Quote:
Perhaps. In the interest of trying to be non-technical, I may have ended up being TOO non-technical in my original explanation. It is known that psilocin binds to several (possibly ALL) subtypes of 5-HT receptors. Normally each subtype of receptors will be activated only when the brain CHOOSES to activate that subtype, i.e. when a given dendrite opposite from a given receptor is instructed to release a packet of serotonin molecules, which then cross the synaptic gap, are captured by the receptor, and destroyed or recycled as you described in your previous post. But the molecules of psilocin aren't created and destroyed in a controlled manner at all, they are floating freely throughout the entire area, attaching themselves willy-nilly to any handy receptor they stumble across. Further, they appear not to be subject to the same rules of destruction and/or reuptake as are serotonin molecules -- that is to say they are not a "one-shot" event in the same way a normal serotonin packet is. So there is nothing to prevent them from binding, being released, then binding again over and over until the body eventually eliminates them. Whether the effect is caused by a single subtype of receptor or a combination of subtypes, the principle I was trying to express is the same. The signal(s) sent to whatever part of the brain is responsible for interpreting them as sensations is different when the triggering molecules involved are psilocin rather than serotonin. pinky |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jul 16th, 2002, 7:44pm Hello all, Here is a quick update. I am still Pain free and Med free. :o :o :o I dosed on 5-29. Had 2 shadows on 5-30. Went pain free until 6-3 and then had 2 HA but they were tolerable. I have been pain free since. That is 43 completely Pain Fucking Free days. The beast can kiss my ass. Beast bring it on. Do your worst. I fear the dance no more because I have found his Kryptonite and kicked his teeth in. To quote a great line from a recent movie, "You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting." >:( Take that. :P Sorry about losing my mind there for a minute. I just felt that I had to let that out. To everyone else out there, Much Love to you All. Scottie |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by dannyboy on Jul 19th, 2002, 5:44am Damn I love this neighbourhood The last page of this thread must be the Most Informative (pinky and Boob), Absolutely the Side Splittingly Funniest (Mister O'Connor) and Completely the most Wildly Inspirational (Scottie) reading I've done in years ... bravo! Encore!! ... Hey Mutha Fuckers ... welcome to ch.com!!!!!!!!!! Newbyboy |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by steColor on Jul 19th, 2002, 3:47pm Hey Scottie!! RIGHT FRIGGIN ON!!!!......I am now shopping for a cape and super man like outfit for you with a big M on it. Any color preferences? or the standard super hero red color. You definitely have this thing whipped. PFDAN Dude !!! STEC |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by scottie on Jul 30th, 2002, 7:30pm Hey fellow fungus heads. Just a quick update that I remain pain free and just to prove it, for those of you that don't know, My wife and I went clubhopping on Sat and I had 3 shots of cuervo, a couple of brewskis and about two or three rum and cokes. The only thing that I didn't test is red wine, but you can bet that will be next. Oh to answer your next question, I was as screwed up as a "football bat". but still PF. Thanks to all of the supporters out there and to those who came before me in this treatment my hat is off to you. Later. Slammy get out of the gutter and STFU ;) ;D 8) Scottie |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by gtarman on Jul 31st, 2002, 10:49am All I can say is, I can't wait to jump on the Shroomwagon. When I'm home, I check on my terrarium every 30 minutes as if they're gonna jump out the cake and wave at me. Scotty, do you know how long it's been since I went out ANYWHERE? All I do is go to work, struggle thru 8 hours, then go home and sit on the couch holding my head in my hands, hoping my eyes don't blow outta my face. I looked thru Pinky's list of meds that effect shrooming and did not see Verapamil. I'm on approx 400 mg's a day, no other meds. How long do I need to detox before shrooming? It'll probably be several weeks before my crop is in (come on lil fellers, GROW) but I wanna do this right from the gitgo. Also, any more feedback on that post about Magnesium and Potassium? A-Cult-ing we will go! Timothy Leary is NOT dead! |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by Slammy on Jul 31st, 2002, 11:28am WTG Scottie! Glad to see you and Kristi getting out and rockin! Isn't it great to get hammered and not worry about a CH? :D BTW... O2 is great to burn off a hangover! :) Silly Silly Scottie! Don't ya know? You can take Slammy out of the gutter, but you can't take the gutter out of Slammy!! ;D STFU!!!! ;) Slammy 8) |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 31st, 2002, 12:47pm Gtarman, From Pink's Important Notes on Mushroom Therapy: "Finally, there are the Calcium Channel Blockers. The most popular CCB used by clusterheads is verapamil. We have received reports of clusterheads achieving complete success with psilocybin while taking verapamil. I have also seen reports from chronics whose only medication at the time of their psilocybin trials was verapamil, who failed to get any significant relief. Was this lack of success due to interaction with verapamil? I don't know. I am open to argument on this one. Verapamil does act on a certain subgroup of serotonin receptors, but it appears not to be the same subgroup that psilocybin and LSD act on. For the moment, I will tentatively classify the CCBs as a category of medications that may not completely block the action of psilocybin, at least for some individuals. I reserve the right to change that opinion as more data becomes available." And two quotes from Flash from the same thread: "Detox from everything. OR wait until your next episode." "Lets face it, very few of the conventional treatments are worth taking. In most cases we are simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. Trust me the headaches are actually more bearable without any medication. The years I have tried medication other than hallucinogens my episode has stretched from 1 month to 2 months. I agree with pinky that O2 is the least likely to affect hallucinogens, but I'd draw the line at pretty much everything else - that includes analgesics... those will only exacerbate the condition." |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by rick on Jul 31st, 2002, 1:04pm on 07/31/02 at 10:49:51, gtarman wrote:
G- If this is the case, is the Verapamil really making any difference in your condition, other than making you tired? In addition to draining my bank account a little more, that's about all it did for me. I blacked out on it once. Verapamil made me feel weak and tired, which in turn made the attacks harder to deal with. I realise some sufferers have had excellent results with it, but I unfortunately was not one of them. How long have you been taking it and what dosage are on? I don't want to see you go to all the trouble of producing, only to have negative results without a "pure" trial run. Again, this is only my opinion, but I put a lot of stake in what Flash has to say since he has been treating himself this way longer than anyone. Also, when I began my therapy, I was not fully detoxed, and I only saw partial relief in the beginning (I was on Depakote, Doxepin, and had just finished a cycle of Prednisone). Peace, -R |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by gtarman on Jul 31st, 2002, 3:45pm Rick- About the first of July the beast started kicking it up a few notches. I had a bottle of Vera from last year that I hadnt given much of a shot, so I started taking 270mgs daily, and after 4-5 days I noticed a definate drop in intensity (it's systemic so it takes awhile to kick in) so I've stayed on it. But as I've said before, the beast rises and falls as it pleases so it's damn hard to tell what's working and what ain't. However, the last couple days it's started increasing again, so I went to the Dr this morn (he knows doodlysquat about CH) and got him to up my dose to 400mgs. We'll see what develops. In any event, I'll definately take Flash's advice and come off it completely before dosing. I'm probably 3-4 weeks away from harvest & drying, if all goes well. Did you see that post about magnesium and potassium? Wonder if there's anything to that? |
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Title: Re: New Shroomer - results so far Post by BobG on Aug 4th, 2002, 1:34pm The magnesium and potassium stuff should be moved over to Roger's restless leg post. But, since those posts have nothing to do with cluster headaches, maybe the whole string should be deleted. Just my opinion, and I'm sticking to it :) |
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