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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> shroom report
        
(Message started by: rick on Apr 15^th, 2002, 10:50pm)

Title: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 15^th, 2002, 10:50pm

Hello to everyone. I just wanted to update the progress of my therapy for anyone who was interested. All apologies to Notseinfeld for not having reported in sooner. I've been busy getting caught up on my life lately, and my time has been scarce. I worked 6 days last week, which was a major accomplishment (two 12 hour days!!!) given my condition over the past few months. I am also in the process of apartment hunting and preparing to move. So I haven't had a lot of time to report in. I also wanted to give the mushroom therapy a few weeks to take effect so that I could give a detailed account of how things have gone.

Overall, things have been much improved, although I have been unable to completely break my cycle. I am now 5 months into this cycle, which is abnormally long, as my previous and only two cycles before this lasted about four months. I had been taking a tapering dosage of prednisone for one month, and finished 2 days before I began therapy. I was also taking 50mgs of Doxepin and 500mgs of Depakote daily for 4 weeks prior to and 1 week into the start of the therapy.

One week before I began therapy, my cycle returned to full strength. I believe this was a result of the reduced prednisone dosage. Full strength for my particular case involves typically 1 Kip 8 a day, although I have had a handful of 9's and only 2-3 days of 2 attacks in a day. I used to have many "double attack" days in my previous cycles, but I have been really taking care of my self since my last bout (diet/exercise/rarely drank, have now quit since this bout started).

I began therapy on March 19th, and have dosed 6 times since then. I do not have a scale to weigh my doses, but I know that I reached level 2.5 on Pinky's scale of psychoactive side effects. I noticed immediate results the following day when a Kip 8 ch dissappeared without even a shadow. I felt great again. The following day I had a ch that was no more bothersome than a typical tension headache. The day after that was the same, and the day following, nothing. The first day that I was pain free was the first day that I was off all meds. I dosed again that night (4 days later), and I took a little less, reaching level 2.

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 15^th, 2002, 10:51pm

Over the next 3 days, I got either no headache or a minor one. They were decreasing in intensity each time. 4 days after the last, I took an even smaller dose, reaching level 1.5. No pain for two days. I was also very physically active the day after that dose, and I felt as though I couldn't give myself a ch if tried.

Then on the 3rd day after that dose, it came back. It felt like I was going to get throttled, and then it fizzled out and died in about 10 minutes. Life was beautiful. The next day I took dose 4. I took even less, reaching only level 1. It felt almost aggravating to my system, I only felt wound up, impatient, and hyperactive without any major psychoactive effects. The following day I got a mean Kip 7.5, but was able to work through it. Again, I am taking no meds.

The following 2 days were pain free. Then, on the next, I got another Kip 7.5. On the following day, I took dose 5, raising my dosage to reach level 2.5. Pain free the day after that, to annoying tolerable ch's on the next 2 days, and then totally pain free on the next two. I was able to work 12 hours each of those 2 days.

I decided I was going to lay off the mushrooms to see what would happen. On the sixth day, I got a Kip 6, but I still wanted to give my body a break and see what would happen. I had 2 more pain free days. Then, on day 9 following my 5th dose (this past Sunday), after having only 3 chs the previous week and 1 in the last 5 days, I had 3 attacks in one day. I have never had that happen before, I've never had more than 2 in a day. The first one was an annoying 10 minute attack that could not get off the ground. I thought I was in the clear, and then I had 2 more Kip 8 attacks 1 hour apart.

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 15^th, 2002, 10:52pm

During attack 3 that day, I took a big dose, reaching level 3.5. Today, I have been pain free, other than feeling groggy from having tripped so hard. But I'll take that over a Kip 8. So again, I am back to taking this one day at a time. So far I have deduced that larger doses (level 2.5-3.5) have been beneficial to me as far as reducing severity and frequency of attacks, and far easier on my body and mind than the meds. However, I am unsure as to whether smaller doses (level1) are either aggravating or less beneficial. I am going to stick with larger doses when I need them.

I do not intend to dose again unless the attacks become severe again. I am going to wait and see what Sunday's dose does for me this week. For my case, if I am able to control the pain this much even without breaking a cycle, I would choose this therapy over the meds. How well this will work for me in the long term, only time will tell, and I'll just continue to collect data.

Any clusterheads who have broken a cycle in full stride with this therapy, PLEASE respond with information. NO ONE is researching this for us, if it can work, we need to collect data for ourselves. We need numbers, facts, and WE NEED TO KEEP JOURNALS. I understand this works for some and not others, I hope to God it works for me, but we can't come up with a good formula to make it successful without more information. DETAILED REPORTS ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT for those of us trying to figure this out. Peace.

Wishing we all had a way out of this-Rick

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by Flash on Apr 16^th, 2002, 6:10am

Hi Rick,

I sympathise with you. It is very hard to break a cycle once in full swing. CH carries it's own considerable momentum. CH always reminds me of hiccups - provided you can go a certain amount of time without one then they tend not to come back.

Personally I think you are using the shrooms too much. Please give yourself at least 1 week between doses to see how things settle down long term. It could be that over use of the shrooms is aggrivating the condition.

My episode typically lasts 1-2 months. The last time I tried to break it with shrooms things were already 1 week gone. I took the shrooms (a small dose) at the weekend and had ~36 hours PF, then the headaches came back and tortured fuck out of me for the next 5 days - worst they've ever been 3 hour kip 10s and 4 of them each day. Though I was going to blow a gasket. Then they just stopped without tapering. It was the shortest episode I've ever had at 2 weeks. Pure hell but at least it was over and done with.

Your body has been through a lot, and needs some time to settle down. Just because you get hit several times doesn't mean that you haven't initiated the countdown. It could even be that by taking the shrooms to frequently you are resetting the countdown.

Please take into account that shrooms do not act directly against the CH. Shrooms prod your body into dealing with the CH. You must give your body time to adjust. Tripping is one of the most shocking things you can do to your system, you must take a full 5-7 seven days to recover in between. Having one bad day is not a reason to redose. Having 5 bad days is!

Flash

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by notseinfeld on Apr 16^th, 2002, 10:38am

Terrific Report Rick---

My status has been that I got a full two weeks of no meds and no attacks but the button was switched on after that. Back to regular cycle of the morning 'hangover' type and about 1 major every other day.

FWIW= my doses were very small--only one gram each time 5 days apart. That's how I temporarily derailed the cycle.

Going to try similar method with 2g five days apart once I can get my damn hands on them.

Hope you can break your pattern and maybe grab some more advice from flash and pink on specifically what to do from here. Flash says to give your system some time to adjust which sounds sound to me :)

Hang in there..

nots

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 17^th, 2002, 11:56pm

Update:

Day 3 after my big dose on Sunday. Monday was fine ch wise, other than I felt completely wiped out from tripping so hard. Yesterday was not good. Ch started at about 11:45, blew up to a Kip 8 within an hour, and then stayed at 8 for the next 3 hours. I had to leave work, and by the time I got home, it had dropped back down to a Kip 3 again. It fluctuated up and down from a 3 to a 5 until about 8:30. Then it all went away again.

I decided to take next week off of work again, not knowing what is going on, but I'm finishing out this work week. Today, I felt great again, as I have after my other larger doses. Some minor shadows here and there, but I felt as though I couldn't give my a ch if I tried. This is like a roller coaster. I'll just have to see what tomorrow will bring. I plan on laying off psilocybin indefinitely.
I went 9 days before the big blow up last Sunday, and I'm going to see how long I can last this time.

Funny you should compare ch to hiccups, Flash. I get them as well as tension headaches, both of which disappeared while I was in college, only to return when I left school. I had always thought that it was odd, and had wondered if there was a connection to my regular use of LSD & mushrooms. Now I am convinced. I know I am doing this the hardest way possible, breaking a full blown cycle, but I am seeing some results. I am going to hold off dosing again on your advice, and hope this thing is getting near the end.

I do have some questions for you though: When you first began this treatment, did you only take a quarter of a recreational dose? Do you only need to dose once at the beginning of your cycles? What "level" do you reach on Pinky's scale of psychoactive side effects? Other than the last cycle you described, do your cycles stop dead in their tracks or do you go through a short period of pain before it stops? Do you think it is beneficial to dose between cycles?

Sorry about all the questions, but I really want to cover all the bases. I am hoping with the right formula, this will work for me as well. If it does work, their will be a day when I will want to approach someone on getting some research together to benefit us all. Much appreciated, as always!

Nots-you were lucky to get 2 pf weeks with such small doses. That sounds promising for you, particularly for the next time around when you can catch it at the beginning.

Living and learning-Rick

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by Flash on Apr 18^th, 2002, 6:55am

Rick - in response to your questions:

When you first began this treatment, did you only take a quarter of a recreational dose?

I first develop CH around 1986, when I was 16. My original cycle was one episode in spring and another in autumn, each would last 1 month. Over the next 6 years both episodes gradually drifted closer to summer until 1992 when I got a 2 month back to back episode that saw out July and August.

In January 1993 I took LSD recreationally for the first time. This was an entire tab, and a relatively strong one. I reached level 3. I had no idea that there was any connection between hallucinogenic drugs and CH. I remember being slightly concerened that the LSD would trigger an episode. This was roughly 6 months after my 1992 double whammy.

I took LSD another handful of times in 1993, and also in 1994. Each time was half a hit and level 2. I think my last LSD trip of 1994 was round about October. During this period September 1992 - October 1994 I experienced no CH whatsover. This enabled me to complete my University degree in Computer Science... 6 years after I started the course, despite being hit with glandular fever.

The next episode hit in April 1995. It lasted 1 month. By October 1995 I had started my own business as a computer contractor and was onto a good thing. I knew that the imminent CH episode would finish that off and I'd be fucked again.

The contract I had at that time provided me with my first exposure to the internet. I went on a search engine and there was fuck all information about CH (back in late 1995). I wanted to figure out what I had done differently in 1993 and 1994. LSD was a fairly glaring difference. I typed into the search engine "migraine & LSD". That pulled up several hits - I hadn't expected any. First and foremost was "LSD - My Problem Child" by Hoffmann.

I didn't want exposure to the people that I'd gotten LSD from anymore. There was also the risk of drug testing by my client. However I realised that without LSD I'd lose the contract anyway. I decided to try magic mushrooms instead although I had no idea what they looked like or where to find them. The information was easy to come by and luckily it was the right time of year. On my first trip I collected 600 mushrooms and preserved them in honey. I have never found so many shrooms in one place since!

I took a large dose of Liberty Cap (48 of them) and reached level 3. I took another dose 3 months later, and a handful of times throughout 1996. These subsequent doses were 10-15 liberty cap and took me to level 1 each time. My last dose of that period was 31st December 1996. During that period I experienced no CH whatsoever.

The next episode hit in late December 1997, and continued into February 1998. This was the first attack in close to a year. I had no access to LSD or shrooms. At that time I discovered this site.

In October 1998 I procured more shrooms and waited for the next episode to start. I hit it within the first week with a dose of 15 shrooms taking me to level 1. A headache was present during ingestion and it stopped in it's tracks. I took a follow up dose in January 1999, this time with 12 Liberty Cap reaching level 1.

I procured more shrooms in October 1999 and waited for the next episode. I didn't have long to wait. This time I dosed with 10 shrooms not even reaching level 1. The episode cleared up within 48 hours. It had been underway less that a week.

I procured more shrooms in October 2000. This time I waited until the episode was at it's peak (for scientific reasons), and dosed with 8 Liberty Cap. This produced 36 hours total relief, followed by 5 days of pure hell (the worst I've ever experienced) then an abruptly terminated episode 2 weeks ahead of shedule with no taper.

I dosed again in July 2001, this time it was part recreational, but it was the previous years crop and they were passed their sell by (preserved in honey). I took 60 of the suckers and barely reached level 2. I have not had a CH attack since.

Do you only need to dose once at the beginning of your cycles?

Yes, provided I catch the CH early enough.

What "level" do you reach on Pinky's scale of psychoactive side effects?

Level 1-2 suffices for me provided I catch the CH early enough or between episodes. Between episodes is by far the most effective time to dose.

Other than the last cycle you described, do your cycles stop dead in their tracks or do you go through a short period of pain before it stops?

I have experienced both. Usually the short period lasts around 48 hours. I get the odd attack that comes to nothing for what would have been the remainder of the cycle and occasionally awake feeling slightly clustery.

Do you think it is beneficial to dose between cycles?

Absolutely. That is the best time to dose. Smack between cycles.

Hope this is useful to you.

Flash

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 18^th, 2002, 10:46pm

INVALUABLE information Flash, thank you very much. Apparently, we both began using LSD at the exact same time (Jan. 93). When I stopped, after leaving college, my cycles began (Fall of 96). This is excellent insight, particularly for next time when I am out of cycle and able to go about this the right way . Unfortunately, I'm in bad shape right now. Roller coaster ride continues.

Today was punishing. No work, I woke up with a headache, a Kip 6 which only lasted about a half an hour. After being hit with 2 headaches on Sunday after having my first morning headache in ages, I was prepared for the worst today. I had a 2 1/2 hour Kip 8-10, and it felt like it would never stop. I don't think I've been hit that hard since February.

I'm taking the next 9 days off of work. I'm a bit confused. No headaches yesterday, then ass kicking headache today, and a morning warm up on top of it! I know you have said, Flash, in a previous post to me, that "things can get a lot worse before they get better". I hope this is the case right now.

I spent much of the day reading over info on the therapy. I think I did over do things with dose #4, because everything really seemed to be settling down by then. My insurance dose may have just aggravated things. But again, there is no way to tell for sure, and I understand it's a lot harder to bust out of a cycle when it's going strong. I did give myself 9 days before last Sunday's dose, and now I think I'm going to wait a bit longer and see if this is just things getting worse for the short term. I still have enough artillery for some more good cracks at it.

What do you all think? Flash? Pinky? Nots?

-Rick

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by Flash on Apr 19^th, 2002, 7:38am

Hindsight is great.

Give your body a decent period of rest before proceeding with another dose. Just aim for level 1.

Flash

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by rick on Apr 24^th, 2002, 11:29am

Hello everyone. I'm in the midst of "therapy" as I type this 8) 8) 8).

This is day 10 since my last session, I had been giving myself a break. I really didn't take that much this time, but I'm already at level 2 after 1 hour 20 minutes.

I had a Kip 9 going, HAD being the important word there. Pain is now a million miles a way. I went from a raging Kip 9 to no pain as if someone flipped a light switch. I'm very happy at the moment...

Title: Re: shroom report
Post by maria on Apr 25^th, 2002, 12:11am

Hooray for you Rick,
Maria