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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
        
(Message started by: Monique on Apr 15^th, 2002, 9:45am)

Title: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 15^th, 2002, 9:45am

Anyone that is considering growing your own for the purposes of treating your up coming CH cycle... if you're not in cycle yet but it is coming soon, I would suggest you get yourself some shrooms now if your batch is not going to be ready until your cycle is very close or in full swing already.
The shroom treatment is BEST used as a preventative. Greg's first time using them was to break a cycle two years ago. It was very hard to accomplish. It did work but it was difficult and the amount of time that you must be med free is very hard on everyone in the house. After that he took the shrooms six months later and he never went into cycle last year at all! No shadows no nothing. He has never, ever missed a cycle in 22 years.
Now he left it too long and we had the misfortune of trying to break this cycle. It was really hard and I would advise anyone thinking of this method to do it as a preventative. While it does indeed work as an abortive it is NOT the best.

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Bob_P on Apr 15^th, 2002, 11:52am

I never missed a cycle for 20 years. Then in my early 40's they jumped from every 8-9 months to every 2 years. A lot of clusterheads (Jack, hub) go through this same thing.

Are you sure it was the shrooms? I know Greg is getting hit prety hard right now, in spite of the shrooms.

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 15^th, 2002, 12:19pm

No. You're right Bob. I cannot be sure it was the shrooms that made him miss the last cycle. Though it was a pretty good coincidence if it was not. But you're absolutely right.
This is all speculation.
Greg was still getting hit really hard. As a matter of fact he got hit worse than ever after one dose. Now after this last one he is doing well. However, is this cuz of the shrooms or the end to the cycle of it's own accord????? Can't really be sure of that either.
Typically Greg has a two month period that involves heavy shadows followed by three months of intense CH (which we call his cycle) two - eight hits a day. 6-10 on the kip scale each. Three months solid. Then a tapering off for two months, again heavy shadows.
IF this is the "natural" end of the cycle then it is not the norm..... so could be attributed to the shroom treatment. However, I again temper that with the fact that his father, who also had CH noticed that in his late 40's to his mid 50's the cycles changed and varied in intensity and duration until they finally ended all together.
So,....my conclusion - we have helped out other CHer's with the shroom treatment. of the thirty, to-date just since this past December, I have had only one reported failure to break a cycle. Each and every one of them have knocked off between 2 weeks and 2 months from their "typical" cycle.
So in conclusion (again, I conclude often apparently)- BEATS THE HELL OUTTA ME BOB! ;)
Though I also have to add that Greg is not typical of allot of things i.e.: all (and I do mean ALL) meds he has ever tried - worked once and then not again. With the only exception being Imetrex injections (but he suffered a mild heart attack from his fourth use of it) and the shrooms. Again, with the shrooms, not typical, most people become used to the shrooms and require higher doses with subsequent usage, whereas my hubby seems to be becoming more and more sensitive to it - requiring less and less of it. *shrug* again, Bob, I got no freakin clue. So I'll say it for yah

"SHUT UP MONIQUE!"

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 15^th, 2002, 12:30pm

Addendum: I goofed. Of the thirty that we have helped there are still four that are working on it.
1. dosed this past weekend and got "some" relief. First try with it.
2. has had second dose three days ago and is CH free for two days prior to second dose, so total of five days free.
3 & 4 are still awaiting their first attempt.

Sorry about that. Got a little over zealous

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Bob_P on Apr 15^th, 2002, 1:05pm

Yeah. For my first 20 years I had a cycle every 8 or 9 months with a 6 week long cluster. When I hit 40 they jumped to every 2 years but the cluster was 12 weeks. Every cycle is a month or two farter apart (last one was 2 yr/7mo) but I have no idea how long the cluster. Last one ws 15 weeks, the before that 5 weeks. Go figure.

Sure would be nice to have a real study on the shrooms and have some data to deal with. Someday.

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 15^th, 2002, 10:22pm

I gotta amend my last post there Bob.
YES, I know it WAS the shrooms. This is no coincidence. If this was the normal or even a somewhat abnormal end to his cycle there would be the tapering off, the slowing, the unusual shadows that slowly ease or increase then ease again for days, weeks etc.

I remember this now, from the last time he broke the cycle, it ended. Just like that. No tapering off, no slowing down, no easing and diminishing. Just stopped.

I know I might be jumping the gun now, cuz it's been less than 24 hours, but 22 years, other than the last time with the shrooms, this has never EVER happened. Through out the day today, he has straightened out. That hunched over quasi moto look, that wrinkled expression, that overall body language that says he is just waiting for the next hit,... it's gone. He worked today outside with a smile on his face, he ran with the dog, he laughed with his kids.... I have my man back! And I have the shrooms and Pinky to thank for that.

Am I sure?? YOU BET YOUR SWEET ASS I'M SURE!!!!

No doubt in my mind, and sure as shootin no doubt in my mans mind either. Had me sit down after dinner and compose a letter of thanks for our great Pink one for all his help! YES, we are sure. I hope and pray that one day we WILL have scientific proof of this for all the skeptics out there.... but for us..... NOPE, no doubt what so ever!
:) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by rick on Apr 15^th, 2002, 11:11pm

Monique-

It's great to hear you speak of such a high success rate. I hope those that are still working on it (such as myself) simply haven't found their correct dosage and regimen yet. How many doses has Greg taken this time around, and how many has it taken in the past? What psychoactive level of side effects does he experience, relative to the scale Pinky gave us in "Important Notes On Mushroom Therapy"? I know that Pinky recommends taking an analgesic such as Tylenol on the following day after dosing, but Flash says to avoid all meds. Does Greg take any thing on the day after?

Hoping we all get out-Rick

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 16^th, 2002, 11:49pm

Hi Rick,
Below is the link where Pinky posted our first attempt with the shrooms two years ago. This was to break a cycle.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=4219

This time has been harder. He has also taken much larger doses and I am beginning to think that more is not so much better with him. He seems to be becoming more and more sensitive to it. He has had five doses now all together. The first time 1 1/2 grams, second the same, third two grams, fourth four grams and the last one only one ( I think, didn't measure it properly, had the weight in the wrong slot so it might have been less than a gram)
For the most part he tripped to the degree of seeing the furniture breath and major giggle fits. The four gram dose sent him out of body and into the universe. Something very amazing but not an experience that he is anxious to repeat. This last time was just major giggles and lights etc.
He is still doing well 48 hours now but is beginning to shadow again. We are going to wait for another three days and then if needed he will dose again but only a really small amount. Perhaps half a gram. He wants to see how little he can take to have an effect. (on the CH, not interested in the high. He's kinda sick of the high) We have found that the tea bags are really great though. I found heat sealable tea bags and pack each one with a dose. Seal them up and then use them just like a regular tea bag. He dose not take any of the flesh then at all. Less upset with his tummy this way.
Greg takes Advil and coffee to content with any break through CH, but only when he needs it.
Going to go and try for some sleep now.... it sure is nice to be back to sleeping! :) But GReg has opted for the upright position in the livingrooms still. He's still affraid of laying down. But at least he's sleeping.
Good luck.

PS don't hold the amounts etc as gospel please. I am keeping a journal and sending info to Pinky on a regular basis, I am just to tired right now to go find the thing. But this is the best of my recollection at the moment. He has for sure had five doses.... amounts might be slightly off. I have said before that he was "cured" and been wrong... so this time I am just going to say... we are holding our breaths and praying for the success we had with our first attempt two years ago. :) We have no doubt that the shrooms impact the Clusters, and are certain that the last time was broken cuz of the shrooms. Weather they work this time completely or not..... this I still have to leave up in the air.

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by rick on Apr 18^th, 2002, 11:30pm

Monique,

Thank you for the info! Although I am a novice to this treatment, and have only experienced partial relief from the shrooms so far, I had an idea as to why Greg may be having less success this time around.

It is possible that you may have overdone the dosage a bit and aggravated the cycle rather than settling things down. I know that Flash has spoken of "things getting worse before they get better" following initial treatment(s), a sort of waiting period where one must tough it out a bit until the body goes back into remission. I myself seemed to be at the threshold of remission after my third dose recently. Following my fourth dose, which I assumed would be good insurance, things seemed to become aggravated the following day.

Of course, we are speaking of apples and oranges here, as I was at the time 4 1/2 months into a cycle, and Greg's was only just beginning. But I'm basing this theory in that tripping can take an exhausting toll on you physically, much in the same way that being pumped full of meds can make you feel horrible. Yet again, you don't want to under dose, and fail in that regard either.

Also, I know that you were using small amounts as an abortive. It may also have been detrimental to do so without allowing for a 4-5 day waiting period for Greg's body to properly absorb his "therapeutic" doses. I myself consumed my first 4 doses at 4 day intervals. It was pretty taxing, but beneficial. I will definitely in the future give my body a 5 day grace period, though.

I know how brutal things can be toughing it out for some time without meds. I spent the afternoon shouting out obscenities to an empty apartment-not much fun at all! It seems we are both searching for the right formula for treatment, one that does not cross the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" line. Man, we could sure use some serious research & solid scientific data, eh?

Anyway, peace to you and your family, and do not give up. -Rick

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by Monique on Apr 19^th, 2002, 1:03am

Hi Rick,
Thanks for your thoughts. Although there are a few things your a little off on. Greg is not in the beginning of his cycle. He's about two months in. Started some time around first or second week in February.
Also, he stopped taking the pieces under his tongue around the second or third dose when Pinky advised against it.
He's been doing really good all week since the last dose but tonight he had to go and price two jobs (he has his own landscaping company) when he came back he had the cluster eye... as he was writting up the estimates it hit. That was about 6:00pm and it went into a 10 within two minutes. Just ended 20 minutes ago around 1:15am. Really, really bad one. I would say the worst one yet but at this stage each one seems worse than the last..... Though this one WAS worse cuz he lost it pretty bad. He was a little too stressed and when it hit he just got more and more tense.... finally went outside and beat the crap outta something. I heard the pounding but didn't ask what he destroyed, just the look of his bloody knuckles and swollen hands was enough to make me just keep my mouth shut.
He's been doing the tea no less than five days apart, except for between the second and third dose that was only three days. Now tomorrow it will be five again but I am hoping that he will not get hit again for a few days and we can put off taking any more for a few more days.
When Margi's husband Mike was here in Ontario a while back he gave Greg an imetrex inhaler. He absolutely refuses to use it. Scares the shit out of him cuz he had a heart attack from the injections. I am going to go and do some research now and see if the inhaler is less of a dose and hopefully that reaction is less. He sure could have used it tonight.
I guess I am just at a complete loss right now. I know the shrooms work, but your right, we need some real good research. This is so hard this trial and error stuff. And then there is the million and one variables, the type of shrooms you use, the method of presservation, the time that they were picked, the way individuals will react to them. OY, too many questions, not enough answers.... too much pain.
Anyway, thanks Rick for thinking of us and trying to help us all to figure this out. I can tell you one thing, never, never again is he going to miss a six month dose. I am not going to let him get into another cycle again if it kills me.
Hope your pain free, and the shrooms do thier thing for you! :)

Title: Re: Some advice on the shroom thearapy.
Post by rick on Apr 19^th, 2002, 11:15pm

Monique-

Wow, I'm sorry to hear all that. I'm just coming down from a 7 1/2 hour beating today, which has finally gone down to Kip 3 in the past hour. Let Greg know that he is not alone! All we can do is keep fighting.

I thought that Greg began his therapy at the very start of his current cycle. Is this where I messed up? Sorry. I began my therapy 4 months into my current cycle. I'm fighting to give my body a ten day break until I dose again. I'm not looking forward to the week ahead though, without anything to deal with the pain.

I definitely sympathize with Greg about the Imitrex, even though I can't imagine what it was like to go through what he did. I hope more than anything that I can get through life with mushroom therapy so I don't have to take meds anymore. I'll be thinking of you both-Rick