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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
        
(Message started by: Lori on Apr 7^th, 2002, 9:51pm)

Title: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Lori on Apr 7^th, 2002, 9:51pm

What method actually constricts the blood vessels in your head during a HA better? Would it be the hot shower or cold, like ice or cold shower? I see where some say heat helps and some say ice helps...I've tried heat(it worked) but I'm curious to which actually constricts. Hot or cold?

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Not4Hire on Apr 7^th, 2002, 10:05pm

Just guessing but Hot SHOULD constrict (less blood needed to stabilize your body temp--like a reptile) --I'm probably 180 degrees out. I DO know that COLD showers make me scream louder, taking my mind off the Beast........FWIW

Shut up Steve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by eyes_afire on Apr 7^th, 2002, 10:27pm

Not a medical explanation, but simply my own explanation for why some people get relief from cold while others get relief from heat:

Theoretically, cold should constrict blood vessels, however it wouldn't surprise me that if in some people it could constrict the surrounding tissues faster than the vessels, therefore causing the vessels to press against nerves (more pain). For me, I think cold constricts vessels faster than the surrounding tissues therefore relieving the pressure off of the nerves.

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by kim on Apr 7^th, 2002, 10:47pm

Lori, technically COLD constricts the vessels. I get ch accompanied by severe mucle spasm in neck shoulder area, therefore, for ME, a hot bath (like I said - only abt 10 mn) to relax the muscles in my neck. Then I hop out and apply COLD to all the areas on my face and head that are in pain; my eye, side of my nose-right under my eye, temple, top of head - anywhere the spiking pain is. Now this is how smart Mr. Ch is. Many times I have placed ice on direct pain and GUESS WHAT? DIRECT PAIN instantly moves to another spot. So, I end up moving the ice pak around my head.
These actions may seem neurotic, but for a long time it has brought me some degree of comfort. Probably more a coping method than anything else.
So, in short, COLD constricts. ???LOL
Have good night! Kim

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by notseinfeld on Apr 8^th, 2002, 10:44am

Cold Constricts. Hot expands. These are forces of nature/physics.

Scientifically speaking, and you may find this interesting, there is NO such thing as cold. There are only degrees of objects/matter being LESS HOT. Heat is transferred, never lost. You could say that an ice cube is less hot than a CD or a telephone while the ice cube has much more heat than particles in a cold fusion tank, etc. Everything, including ourselves, are a certain degree of hot, (some hotter than others of course :) )

nots

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Not4Hire on Apr 8^th, 2002, 10:51am

Yeah, but what about ICE..it expands, don't it?

(BTW, I agree with what you said..I'm just feelin contrary after being up all fucking night)

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Bob_P on Apr 8^th, 2002, 11:00am

Yep. H2O does expand when it changes state from liquid to solid but this doesn't hold true with blood vessles.

What the vessels are trying to do is maintain a given body temperature ( a temp which is monitored and controlled by the hypothalamus which is messed up in our case).

When we get overheated the hypo adjusts the serotonin level and makes the surface blood vessels dialate to help get rid of the heat. When we get cold it constricts the surface vessels in order to conserve core heat. That's why your skin turns red when you jump in a hot shower, all of the surface blood vessels have dialated.

Same thing holds true for alcohol which is why it's a CH trigger. A drunks face is usually good and red from the alcohol dialating the blood vessels.

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by BobG on Apr 8^th, 2002, 2:26pm

Hey Bob P (or anyone else)
It's true that water expands when it freezes and it also expands when it heats and turns to steam.

Question:
Most mass of ice bergs are underwater. Being frozen they have expanded.

If all the icebergs at the poles were to melt (global warming) would the ocean levels rise or fall?

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Bob_P on Apr 8^th, 2002, 4:33pm

They say an iceberg is 2/3 under water. So even if it did lose volumne changing from solid back to liquid, it still has the exrat 1/3 above wter level. I would think that would be enough to make water levels rise.

Also most of the ice is sheet ice, above water level and in the caso of Antartica, it's a land mass covered in ice.

So I know you were yanking my chain Bob but I'd say water levels rise.

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Margi on Apr 8^th, 2002, 4:45pm

well, the Bob's are on a roll here today I see. :)

I'm just so freakin glad BobP's finally changed that picture and we get to look at Paco now.

I think you should do Jonny next, Bob. He looks pretty smooshable.

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Lori on Apr 8^th, 2002, 5:15pm

Ok, thanks for such great explanations! What I don't understand though is why is it a hot shower alone seems to relieve the HA or intensity for some but make it worse for others nad the same with the ice...good for some...worse for others...if we all have the same thing going one in our sweet little heads? I wondered that with the meds also...they work for some...not for others...but the same thing is going on in our heads...so what gives? I'm trying to understand how exactly the verapamil is helping me for instance. I think I understand it to expand blood vessels? But when a CH hits...I'm trying to constrict them???? Like what do I not understand? Forgive me, I have alot to learn. I have been reading and reading...and I'm taking topamax and it's not helping me understand very well I guess. Thank you all for explaining things though....it's very educational for me and I'm sure others as well.

Have a PFDAN

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Tom on Apr 8^th, 2002, 5:42pm

Hi Bob_P,

ice is to 10/11 under water. The expansion of 1/11 from water to ice lowers the specific weight of the ice mass compared to water, that's why it rises floating in the water. When it melts - provided it's still in the same water - this water's level logically doesn't rise or fall. You can easily check it if you put some ice cubes in a glas and then fill it with water up to the edge - as the ice is melting, water will not run over.

Obviously, ice covering the land masses of the poles would rise the sea level, if melted.

Thomas

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Not4Hire on Apr 8^th, 2002, 5:49pm

Yeah, but how deep would the oceans be if there weren't any sponges???

OK, I'll go away now.....if I don't get some sleep, I'll be taking hostages soon...and everybody around here carries guns...not a good idea......................

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by Bob_P on Apr 8^th, 2002, 6:25pm

On the verap question - ask Ueli. Verap blocks the calcium channel which then stops the vessels from doing any weird things. Ueli really has the dope on this.

Title: BobG, obviously the sea level would rise!
Post by Ueli on Apr 8^th, 2002, 6:50pm

Each (metric) ton of iceberg displaces a ton of sea water (that's why Archemedes shouted "Eureka" when he ran neckid over the market place of Athens). If a ton of iceberg is melted that will give 1 m³ of fresh water, since the iceberg broke off a glacier that in turn was built by fresh water precipitations in the form of snow. The salt content of sea water raises its density above 1 ton/m³, hence he displaced ton of sea water had a volume less than 1 m³. Therefore, after filling up the 'hole' in the sea there will be an excess of melted iceberg that will rise the sea level.

Addendum: If we also consider ice that originally froze from the sea, the above argument still holds: On freezing most of the salt is left back in the water, the resulting ice has a much lower salt content, about suitable to make soup.

:D Ueli ;D

Title: Re: What constricts vessels..ice or heat??
Post by BobG on Apr 8^th, 2002, 7:03pm

Thanks Bob P, Tom and Ueli.

OH MY GOD! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DROWN. RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. BUILD A BOAT. GET OUT YOUR DINGY. DO SOMETHING OR WE'LL ALL DIE!

Oh, wait a minute. I'll just put the wheels back on and move my house to the high end of the park.