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        New Message Board Archives >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies 2002 >> Cigarettes and coffee ?
        
(Message started by: Merc on Feb 26^th, 2002, 7:50am)

Title: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Merc on Feb 26^th, 2002, 7:50am

Hi all :|

I'm a programmer and live on coffee and cigerretes all day long. My wife has been nagging me and says I get CH because of all the cafeen and nicotine. I'm not naiv enough to think that if I quit smoking and stopped drinking coffe all day that I could be cured, but could there be some sort of a link ?

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by ejwrancher on Feb 26^th, 2002, 9:28am

:o I live on both as well. Can't even imagine giving up either, I enjoy them so much and besides, they are so healthy :P I do not think the coffee hurts as much as the cigs. I remember during an episide, I also had a bad cough, kinda slowed down on the cigs and thought the attacks slowed down a bit and may not have been so severe. I have also tried the coffee slow-down, don't think it did any good.

Have also heard the coffee kinda helps abort. Even tried a pot of lunk-warm coffee during an attach with not much help. I will be interested in seeing what others say.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Ann on Feb 26^th, 2002, 2:22pm

Like the others I too am a coffee and ciggy fan. I tried quitting coffee .... didn't change a damn thing. Tried quitting the ciggies, started my CH's a month and a half early. So basically...I don't know. And honestly, who the hell wants to stop anything that makes them happy! ::) My morale hit rock bottom when I quit smoking... it was not a pretty sight! ;D

Take care and PFDAN to all

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by don on Feb 26^th, 2002, 8:57pm

Coffee may in fact aid in preventing attacks.

Cigarettes may in fact cause you to die early and therefor not get another attack.

Depends on your perspective I guess.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Georgia on Feb 26^th, 2002, 10:42pm

I quit smoking for an entire year. My ch's persisted. Many of the meds that work well for headaches have caffeine in them (it constricts the blood vessels as does nicotine), and personally I drink coffee at the first sign of a shadow to try to prevent it....

coffee is your friend smokey treats are your friends

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Merc on Feb 27^th, 2002, 3:05am

Thanx all for your replys ...
I have actually been avoiding cigarettes and coffee just before or deuring an attack, but now I think I will reward myself !

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by KevH07 on Mar 1^st, 2002, 6:22pm

Hi all first time posting here , so go easy on me lol
Just wanted to say thanks to Merc for asking this question been wondering about it myself. Been a CH for 8 years now , but have been misdiagnosed <~~hope thats right, lol, for the first 6yrs. Anyway you know every doc. I've seen has told me to lay off the smokes but I dont think I could deal with an attack without one. For some reason I think it helps me keep my mind off the pain some while that sucker is burning. I know its all in my mind but I could never give them up, they are just so damn good !

Anyway thanks again and pain free day's to all

Kev 8)

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by justin on Mar 7^th, 2002, 11:08am

never smoked and rarely drink coffee and have chronic CH. so now i'm gonna start smoking and drinking coffee...JK, sort of
jd

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Jayne on Mar 8^th, 2002, 9:28am

In the past when I had to go through attacks with no abortives (AGGGHHR).
The first thing I wanted when the attack was over, was a cup of coffee and about 4 ciggy's.
Wierd.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by chjohn on Mar 8^th, 2002, 8:06pm

When I get an attack, after running hot water on my head, getting up sitting down, getting up running hot water on my head sitting down, walking back and forth. eating any pain pill I can find, THEN I sit down and drink coffee and smoke MORE ciggarettes.
Hope this helps.
John

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by kim on Mar 9^th, 2002, 2:46pm

I can't believe i'm reading this! You guys! I have had ch for over 25 years. Smoking has not affect whatsoever on the ch for me. Sometimes i smoke a butt during an attack (as i'm pacing around muttering to mysef) anyway, never noticed on way or another re the nicotine. BUTTTTTT! My husband comes home from work and smell coffee he knows ch is in the house. I IMMEDIATELY start that coffee machine STRONG AND HOT and gulp it down to ward off that ch attack. It has been my experience that coffee works better than most meds i've taken in "knocking out" the beast. However, as the ch attacks intensify and get more frequent, alas, the coffee joins all the other ineffective methods! Funny thing, so many neuros (and here i roll MY EYES and plug MY nose) have droned on about the detriments of nicotine and caffeine. I truly believ that many neuros are notnos. Oh well. I say, swig that coffee and suck those fags!

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Brenton on Apr 7^th, 2002, 10:25am

Hi
I am very new to this site and have read with interest all your comments re coffee and cigs. Oh boy how i relate to JohnCH comments,it is so typical of me during an attack.Until i found this site i really did think i was the only one who suffered this "hellish" pain.I am currenlty in another cycle [my first week of hell] and this time i have chosen not to drink coffee nor smoke and the pain and frequency of attacks have not changed.
I will perservere with this,but after a week it has not worked for me.
Wishing you all
PFNAD'S
Brenton
Perth
West Aust

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by JimF on Apr 8^th, 2002, 4:42pm

I quit smoking for 3 yrs and i still had CH...too much coffee seems to be a trigger for me. Actually i think a cig helps reduce the pain and eases the nausea. afterall, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor..so it makes sense. but the effect is short lived.
Ice is my best friend...freeze your head till it hurts...

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by notseinfeld on Apr 9^th, 2002, 12:14am

Yet another 'eine' addict here and sometimes I wonder that if O2 helps abort an attack by supplying more and purer oxygen to the brain, isn't smoking the exact opposite of this? Smoke does, after all, clog hemoglobin and deprive cells of needed O2.

Just something to ponder....

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by MaureenG on Apr 9^th, 2002, 12:27am

I agree that notseinfeld's response does seem logical, but after reading that almost everyone else found no difference when not smoking, I will not mention quitting ever again to my boyfriend, Steve. Of course, as a smoker myself, I really didn't have a leg to stand on!
There are other obvious reasons to quit smoking, but if smoking a cigarette can help him get through an attack, so be it.
As far as coffee goes, as a supporter, my first job during an attack is to start the coffee pot. There have been a few instances where coffee made his headache worse, but usually it does help, and for minor attacks, sometimes coffee is all it takes.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by oringkid on Apr 9^th, 2002, 12:38am

I started having this crap when I was 8 years old, way before I started smoking and drinking coffee, so it is certainly not the cause.

I like many others, go for that hot coffee as soon as one hits. Sometimes it will abort it. Otherwise it seems to be soothing for the heat to hit my upper palate and throat.

I will also smoke during my attacks as it will sometimes hurry the thing along. So believe it or not I smoke to intensify the pain which, especially during the early stages of my cycle, reduces the duration of the attack.

I look quite the case I'm sure with my ice on the outside of my head the hot coffee being held in my mouth and a cigarette in the other hand, one eye streaming and red and almost closed, head cocked slightly to the pain side and rocking, readjusting and rocking some more.

PF to all!

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by kim on Apr 9^th, 2002, 8:33am

oring, i hear ya. Eigor on coffee break! ;D

Title: For Notseinfeld
Post by Ueli on Apr 9^th, 2002, 9:47am

on 04/09/02 at 00:14:48, notseinfeld wrote:

... sometimes I wonder that if O2 helps abort an attack by supplying more and purer oxygen to the brain, isn't smoking the exact opposite of this? Smoke does, after all, clog hemoglobin and deprive cells of needed O2.

The fact is: The brain regulates to very close tolerances the amount of oxygen it receives. To achieve this goal, it sends out signals to increase or restrict he blood flow. In the chain of events in a cluster attack the expanding arteries are causing the pain by pressing on the trigeminal nerve. Here is where the abortives take action: Sumatriptan as a 5-TH (serotonin) agonist mimics a strong nerve signal to constrict the vessels. The oxygen rich blood (from breathing pure oxygen) provokes an autonomous signal to constrict the arteries (in order to avoid an over-supply of O₂ to the brain).

There is no such thing as more or less pure oxygen supplied to the brain. The air we breathe contains 21% oxygen, a fraction of a % CO₂ (carbon dioxide, a waste product of our metabolism), even less of all sorts of pollutants and the big rest are Nitrogen and noble gases. The very small fraction of CO (Carbon monoxide) in cigarette smoke does indeed bind irreversibly to haemoglobin, but this of no consequence to the oxygen supply for the brain (see above).

PFNAD's, Ueli :o

Title: You've all got it backwards.
Post by Bob_P on Apr 9^th, 2002, 10:09am

Think out of the box.

Smoking and drinking coffee doesn't cause out CH.

Our CH causes us to drink and smoke.

My theory is that the same disfunction that causes our 5HT system to be whacko is the same thing that gives us addictive personalities (see my post on the "drug addiction" topic or read the Cocaine article at the bottom of the serotonin page in the OUCH Library). Seems 5HT has a lot to do with addiction.

I think our 5HT system is always messed up as shown by our constant low level of Melatonin (a metabolyte of 5HT) whether in or out of cluster cycle.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by pinksharkmark on Apr 9^th, 2002, 11:57am

on 04/09/02 at 10:09:04, Bob_P wrote:

Smoking and drinking coffee doesn't cause out CH.

Our CH causes us to drink and smoke.

I believe Bob hit the nail on the head with this one. My neurologist agrees.

He believes that the same defect in our brains that causes CH also makes us more prone to become addicted to nicotine and alcohol. He said it is easy to interpret the "cause and effect" thing backwards.

For example, I thought for years that eating chocolate triggered my CH. It wasn't till my neuro asked me how often I ate chocolate that I realized I NEVER eat chocolate except when in cycle. As a matter of fact, if I find myself buying chocolate bars, I know that a new cycle will start soon. In my case, the CH makes me crave chocolate.

I am not much of a drinker... I can go for months without touching a drop and not even realize till afterwards that I have done without, but I am definitely heavily addicted to nicotine. I sure would like to quit one day, but not because of my CH.

pinky

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Donna on Apr 9^th, 2002, 12:11pm

I actually did quit for 15 years, but still had cycles like clocwork.

I re-started when going thru a nasty divorce and the clusters still went on as if nothing had ever changed.

I quit a few other times, but can't seem to make it past the 3 month mark for some reason.

Title: Re: For Notseinfeld
Post by Sweet_Landings on Apr 20^th, 2002, 10:48pm

on 04/09/02 at 09:47:55, Ueli wrote:

In the chain of events in a cluster attack the expanding arteries are causing the pain by pressing on the trigeminal nerve.

Ding! Ding! Ding! This is like a huge light bulb of sorts for me! I have Trigeminal Neuralgia. I have a pins and needles type feeling on the left side of my face, of course accompanied by shooting and excrutiating pains. My CH resides on the right side. By the time that the CH is kicking into high gear the TN has been going on for hours. Your comment has confirmed my thought that the two are related! I have TN Bi-Laterally, so the scenerio is not always the same but this has been the way it has affected me for the last few weeks.

I also smoke and guzzle coffee. Last month I was sick with bronchitis and basically quit for two or three weeks. It made no difference in the frequency or intensity of my pain.

I find that late at night I do smoke a lot more, which is when my pain is the worst. Hmmm.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by rick on Apr 23^rd, 2002, 10:19am

I know a lot of us have sleep issues. I've had problems with insomnia since I was in high school. I don't smoke or drink, but I was a total caffeine addict up until the beginning of my current cycle last November. In the past month, after going off meds completely, I've been sleeping perfectly. I fall asleep as soon as I go to bed, and sleep through the whole night, 8 hours.

Coffee was very hard for me to give up, but if anyone else is interested in trying, I've found eating a high protein breakfast creates wakeful arousal which is a lot easier on your system than a cup o' joe.

-Rick

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 2^nd, 2002, 4:28am

I know this thread hasn't been replied to in a while, but I just wanted to mention something my neuro said when i mentioned cigs to him. He agreed with me that during a cycle, the cigs may actually help with the pain a bit, but he said between cycles that cigs may reduce the length of the remission (dunno how true that is, because it seems that when I wasn't smoking, the remission wasn't any longer than it is when I am). Shuttin' up now...

PFDAN............................ Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by kim on May 3^rd, 2002, 7:33pm

Cigarettes are veddy bad for you. I have a strong premonition that they have no bearing on ch. Having suffered with these gobstopping god awful ch's for decades, I have decided that I will one day quit smoking. This in the hopes that I will not die of cancer.

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by BobG on May 3^rd, 2002, 11:47pm

I started smoking years before I started clustering.
I have smoked during clustering.
I have smoked after clustering.
I haven't had a clustering cycle for over 3 years.
I still smoke. I'm trying to break the gum chewing habit.

And, I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other.

And I do think that if you stop smoking during a clustering cycle you will still be clustering and be real b*itchy at the same time.

Title: :DRe: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by kody on May 4^th, 2002, 3:16pm

Message as reply to original thread and especially to Ueli. I too noticed the contradiction to the idea of avoidance of caffeine and to the fact that most cluster meds and inhaled oxygen , according to research, operate as vasoconstrictors in the subcerebral arteries, as indicated both by Ueli and by Dr. Greg. Even my Fioricet that i use for pain sometimes has caffeine in it. When asking my headache doc, he in fact said that chocolate ( boy, do I have a craving for it and really had to avoid it with recent CH bouts) was actually good for me. For me however, there's a joker in the deck. I am also blood pressure hypertensive so have to take med for it and protocols mandate low caffeine for that situation. Seems like i'm caught in a Catch 22. Recently started Verap and one of the side effects is purportedly fatigue. Wonder if caffeine laced energy drinks could both help the CH situation and reverse at least some of this Verap side effect ? Any thoughts out there ?

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by oringkid on May 4^th, 2002, 3:22pm

Kody, all I know is that cokes don't help like coffee does. I don't know if it is the caffeine or the heat that helps me.

re: chocolate, doesn't seem to do anything one way or the other, but I tend to crave it while CH'ing.

Sherry

Title: Kody
Post by Marc on May 4^th, 2002, 3:58pm

Hi Kody,

Just curious:

1) Did you replace another blood pressure med with Verap? (or are you taking two?)
2) What dosage of Verap are you on?
3) Are you taking normal or extended release?

Sorry to be so nosy, but I'm a HUGE fan of Verapamil.

Marc

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by lefteye on May 5^th, 2002, 1:19am

Hi everyone,
I'm smoking and drinking coffee right now. I havn't found anything else that helps in the early hours. I know I'm going to be up so I use this comb to back the pain off. I don't drink coffee much, maybe a cup and half a day but I smoke a pack of cigs a day. Not abusing neither. It's better than nothing. 15 days until neoru(doc). :-/

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by kody on May 5^th, 2002, 1:49am

To Marc: I'll answer your 3 questions in reverse, since I have a sort of twist on # 1 and I'd like to pass it on to the community for their general feedback and responses.
1) Prescribed ER(Normal Release) type.
2) Starting with 240 mg, 3X/day, with ramp up to 480mg in one week if pulse rate is greater than or equal to 55 bpm.
3) No, the two meds are separate. Hytrin is an A2 hypertensive med, i'm sure to work against vasoconstriction in some method. It is also antagonistic to enlarged prostrate disease, which is borderline for me. (called BPH=benign prostatic hypertrophy).

NOW FOR MY query for the community: I quote from Dr. Greg on this site, referring to Verapamil:

In the arteries of the brain, the muscles that cause the arteries to constrict use calcium to help regulate how hard they squeeze. By blocking the flow of calcium, the muscles don't react as quickly.

Cluster headaches seem to involve dilatation of the arteries in the brain. Whether that causes the pain, or is just a step in the process, we don't know. However, many of the medications that relieve cluster headache pain cause constriction of the vessels...so they definitely play a part. By blocking the calcium channels, the medication, in theory, decreases the irritability, or responsiveness, of these vessels.

The contradiction, as I see it, is that if CH is due to dilation of arteries in brain, then what you REALLY WANT is to facilitate the smooth muscle to contract. According to the above, this means YOU NEED calcium to trigger smooth muscle contraction. By calcium blocking these channels aren't you preventing contraction and therby prolonging the CH ? In other words, don't we want to increase arterial muscle irritability or responsiveness and thereby actually NEED calcium. It seems that Verapamil works some other way or i'm misreading Dr. Greg above.

To the CH Community: Please respond if you have another take on this

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 5^th, 2002, 2:10am

Before anyone else can say it... No one knows for sure what causes CH, or where the pain really originates... I've heard a possiblity or two that it's not the calcium channel blocker in verapamil that causes the relief, but a side effect of the drug... Dunno for sure... No one does... Oh well... Some say it's a lack of serotonin that causes the CH, but if that was true, serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like Zomig) or Prozac should be a miracle cure, but it ain't. CH needs some serious research before anyone can even come close to understanding the true reason behind it. Well... That's my 1/5th of a dime on the matter...

PFDAN................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Cigarettes and coffee ?
Post by jrt on May 5^th, 2002, 7:10am

Started with the ch when I was 16, THEN started smoking and drinking coffee...lots and lots of coffee. Slow suicide or self-defense mechanism? I do know that pain level increases immediately and significantly if I smoke during a ch and can't bear it, but I run for coffee!