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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Oxygen Concentrators
        
(Message started by: Varmin on Feb 16^th, 2008, 5:59pm)

Title: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Varmin on Feb 16^th, 2008, 5:59pm

I just did a search on the CH forums and found almost no discussion of O2 concentrators. What I did find stated that they do not provide high enough flow / addequite pure O2 to abort a CH.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=chspecific;action=display;num=1202526877

I have found that a high output concentrator w/ a non-re-breather mask will abort my CH just as well as my tanks.
My concentrator supplies up to 16 LPM (controlled by duel 8 LPM outputs) of 97% pure O2 for an unlimited amount of time. It has over 7000 hours on this unit and still tests at 97% pure.
I think most people are under the impression that concentrators can not provide high enough flow and this is the case for most standard concentrators but why not look around for a high output unit?

I find it strange that there are only two treads on the entire CH forum that make mention of these.
They would save so much trouble for so many people.
How is it that a support site w/ most of it's members using O2 has no mention of O2 concentrators?

I'm just curious as to why these have not caught on with more of my fellow CH sufferers.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Ob1kanobee on Feb 16^th, 2008, 6:54pm

If you could provide a link for one I would look at it and see. I did a search and a 10 liter one alone was over $1,500.00. Multiply that by two and well that is $3000.00.
Maybe even if it did work which I'll have to wait for some of the other comments, here is a few reasons I can think of:

You need electricity to make it work so it is not portable unless you want to carry a generator too.

Insurance might not cover it.

For the people who are Episodic that would be a pretty big investment. Will be interesting to see what some of the others say, but I'm all ears......

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Varmin on Feb 16^th, 2008, 7:03pm

You wouldn't need two of them only one that has a higher output and they run anywhere from $700.00 to $2000.00 new. I'll see if I can find a link for you.
Concentrators are not portable. That's what tanks are for. Insurance may be a problem that I hadn't thought of.
So... expense / cost is the restricting factor maybe?
I'm episodic so my unit sits for many months out of the year. I didn't pay anything for it as it was given to me by my former employer (medical supply company)
Matter of fact, when I'm not using the system it goes to a family member that suffers w/ CH also.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by mcf69 on Feb 17^th, 2008, 12:55am

Varmin, I'm interested in where you can find a concentrator w/dual 8 lpm outlets, is that a domestic (made/marketed in US) unit? I've been researching concentrators as I'm episodic and only get night time hits, I think a high flow/high output concentrator would work well for me. It's just getting over the initial investment that's a killer, of course when I'm getting hit I'd pay just about anything for relief.....

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 17^th, 2008, 8:58am

I saw your other post and responded there. I'll copy it here as this is a more appropriate thread for the discussion.
-------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad the concentrator works for you. You are the first that I've heard of. So I have some questions.

When I first got O2 I looked into using a concentrator. What scared me off was the concentrator O2 level deminishes with time until an alarm goes off for servicing. That alarm is set for 87% concentration. How do you maintain 97%? Is your alarm more sensitive? Or do you just keep a more aggressive service schedule? 3% might not make much of a difference. 13% most certainly would.

Also, why do you consider the concentrator better for home use than tanks? After all, tanks don't need servicing. Just refills.

Thanks...

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Scrooge on Feb 17^th, 2008, 9:18am

I use a 10 liter per minute concentrator and it does the job fine for me. It was expensive ($1,200) but I have a high deductible insurance plan and renting the tanks would end up costing me more over the long run.

The only problem I have with the machine is that it takes a few minutes to provide the full volume that you need but it's no big deal.

If anyone is interested this is the one I purchased:

http://www.phc-online.com/Oxygen_Concentrator_p/integra-ez-10.htm

If you go online you can find places that sell refurbished concentrators but you will have a hard time finding a 10L unit. You can find bunches of the smaller ones.

As far as the purity of the O2 diminishing over time. Well, these machines are designed to run 24/7. The amount I use mine wouldn't come close to that so I'm not worried about the filter media losing effectiveness. Of course this is all just my opinion and what works for me may not work for anyone else but I consider my purchase of this machine one of the best investments I have ever made.

If you have any questions please let me know.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Varmin on Feb 17^th, 2008, 1:09pm

on 02/17/08 at 00:55:30, mcf69 wrote:

Yes, my unit is a "Newlife Elite" and they are sold in the US. That initial investment is a bitch but just imagine how nice it would feel to have an unlimited amount of O2 at the ready.

on 02/17/08 at 08:58:32, DennisM1045 wrote:

Dennis,
The built in alarm is there to alert you that something may be wrong with the unit or that the unit is need of service. The alarm will sound if the O2 concentration gets below a certain level (around 90%) but it usually takes years of continuous 24/7 use (with little or no maintenance) to get that low. A unit would / should have been serviced long before the quality gets this low.
To maintain 97% quality on my machine I just keep the filters clean and have it looked at every other year by a qualified technician (my buddy).
In my particular case the concentrator is perfect for home use. I usually leave it running continually (24/7)when I'm in my cycle. The reason for this is because concentrators take at least 20 minutes for the concentration of O2 to be at it's highest. It's not a problem though as concentrators are designed to run 24/7. The only problem is the humming noise that it makes...no big deal.
Tanks are the ole standby for me. I'll use them if I go out or if the power is out or something like that.
I'll snap a picture of my unit (that sounds dirty haha) and attach it so you know what the duel unit looks like.
A concentrator works well for me but as we all know...what works for one clusterhead may not work for another.
I would advise anyone who may consider buying a concentrator to first rent a unit and see if it works for you before making a large purchase / investment!
When calling around for a high output rental unit, be pushy if they blow you off and say that they don't carry high output units...tell them to go and physically check the storage/warehouse to be sure!! I know for a fact that many O2 / Medical suppliers have them in a corner and don't even know it.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 17^th, 2008, 1:13pm

Thanks for the reponse.

Do you see a distinct advantage of concentrators over tanks or is it just a matter of preference?

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Varmin on Feb 17^th, 2008, 1:27pm

In my case it's a matter of preference and the fact that it was given to me free of charge. I don't have insurance so I pay out of pocket for any O2 tanks that I have to rent/buy.
It's been such a handy system that I wondered why it hasen't been mentioned on here before now.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 17^th, 2008, 2:57pm

Well I'm glad it works for you. Thanks for the info.

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 17^th, 2008, 9:49pm

I had never considered it because I was under the impression they did not make units that could produce 02 at the rate I needed it. Another example of this board enlightening me, thanks for taking the time to put the info out there! ;)

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by thebbz on Feb 18^th, 2008, 9:55pm

Highest output I found was 12 lpm. Started up at 86%, after one minute it was at 90%. It took five full minutes for 98%.
Too late for me. Glad for you.
all the best
thebb
Need to get a manufacturer to produce a unit for CH. With 98% at 15 lpm at start-up...with a turbo charger.

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by Melissa on Feb 19^th, 2008, 10:31am

on 02/18/08 at 21:55:29, thebbz wrote:

...with a turbo charger.

and battery back up!

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by E-Double on Feb 19^th, 2008, 10:50am

I have heard of a few people who "piggyback" 2 concentrators which puts out major flow

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by mudplugga on Mar 13^th, 2008, 11:14am

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Oxygen-Generator-Portable-Use-Dr-Oxygen-Original_W0QQitemZ290198311807QQihZ019QQcategoryZ1277QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

I know this is way too low in capacity, but it seems cheap. Is there a larger capacity version of this kind of machine, or is this technology at its limit?

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by wildhaus on Mar 13^th, 2008, 1:32pm

on 02/16/08 at 17:59:09, Varmin wrote:

I have found that a high output concentrator w/ a non-re-breather mask will abort my CH just as well as my tanks.
My concentrator supplies up to 16 LPM (controlled by duel 8 LPM outputs) of 97% pure O2 for an unlimited amount of time. It has over 7000 hours on this unit and still tests at 97% pure.

Hi,

Could you be so nice and proveid me with the Tech. Info.
or where could I find it.......

and if you can a Pic. of it........

Tks.

Michael

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by brewcrew on Mar 13^th, 2008, 4:02pm

Considering that the regular air we breathe is 21% oxygen, doesn't 86% at start-up and 90% after one minute seem close enough? It sure as shit beats 21% forever....

Title: Re: Oxygen Concentrators
Post by brewcrew on Mar 13^th, 2008, 4:03pm

on 02/19/08 at 10:50:04, E-Double wrote:

I have heard of a few people who "piggyback" 2 concentrators which puts out major flow

But I'll bet it's as loud as a green flag at a NASCAR race.