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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
        
(Message started by: Superdave on Feb 12^th, 2008, 3:42pm)

Title: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Superdave on Feb 12^th, 2008, 3:42pm

Being new this board, I'm sure this is a topic that could have been worn out long ago, never the less I haven't found any threads pertaining to this subject.
Does anyone out there have any information on the effect of physical fitness homeopathics ect. on Cluster headache.
I'm 45,in fair condition, physicly active, race motorcycles,
ride my mountain bike, do yoga, take hikes, surf.
My girl friend is in extremely good condition and has overcome some health problems of her own through nutrition a lot of exercise and a strong commitment to yoga.
Though she does try to support me in my cch it never seems to fail, a bad visit from the beast always ends up in a unpleasant discussion about me not putting enough faith in the natural way of healing and working out enough.
Ever since this whole thing started over 5 years ago, I have paid much more attention to the way I eat and staying in good health in general. I haven't had a cold, flu or sinus infection in as many years. I've had half my thyroid removed and do not have to take synthriod to make up for it. With the exception of those nasty hits every day or so my body has never felt better.
A good hard workout especially in the summer heat quite often is an invatation for the inevitable.
I was wondering if any of you have similar experience to share with me?
Thanks Superdave

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by George_J on Feb 12^th, 2008, 3:56pm

IMHO, unless it can fix your hypothalamus, none of it is likely to stop your headaches.

That being said, being active and in shape, and following a healthy diet will go a long way toward giving you the strength and endurance to live with CH. Having CH is bad. Having CH and being unhealthy is probably a lot worse.

Can't really address the homeopathy aspect of your question, but my confidence level in homeopathy in general is low.

Best wishes,

George

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Ray on Feb 12^th, 2008, 4:07pm

George stated it well! I also have little to no faith in homeopathy, especially for CH.

Do you use oxygen? That is helpful to most of us and is generally without side effects.

With best wishes,

Ray

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by brewcrew on Feb 12^th, 2008, 4:22pm

Tell your girlfriend that if working out cured CH, none of us would be here.

Well, very few of us would be here. Becuase once a cure is found, I guaran-damn-tee we'll be climbing over each other to get to it.

It's a nice thought, but it's a little more complicated than that.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Feb 12^th, 2008, 4:38pm

As George said, it's a good thing to be in good shape and eating a healthy diet (if you don't have to forgo too many good things ;)).

As for homeopathy, that is IMHO the biggest health scam there is. In over 200 years the homeopathic movement could not present one single double blind study for their claims. How could they, as they believe in a memory effect of water that never ever has been shown to exist otherwise, and that is entirely incompatible with modern scientific knowledge.
The best you can expect from homeopathy (as a consumer) is a placebo effect. But that is downright useless for us, as you can't wish away CH.

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Miz_D on Feb 12^th, 2008, 4:50pm

Hi Superdave,

Thanks for posting. There has seemed to be a substantial amount of discussion regarding physical fitness and the benefits derived especially when dealing with a chronic illness. However, when it comes to homeopathic, alternative or complimentary medicine, I have observed that many people tend to treat it with derision and skeptisism. Nevertheless, I have found that there is a place for these 'complementary medicines' in my own personal arsenal when dealing with my CH.

As a chronic sufferer, I am hardly ever completely PF, although I have been fortunate to have periods of relatively PF time, getting only a few attacks at a time, over a couple of days once or twice a month. Traditional Wetern medicine has been neccessary for sure, Verapamil being what seems to work best for me. But because CH effects my life in so many ways, even when not in pain I have needed to address other concerns which are part of my illness.

For example, in the first couple of years as my Neuro and I searched for the appropriate cocktail, I had terrible insomnia. Mainly, I believe, because my body was simply terrified to go into a state which brought about excrutiating pain. At least when I got hits while awake, I felt a little more prepared to deal with them and could do so much more quickly. The night hits, as you probably know yourself, woke me in a state where I was already ramping so quickly, I would panic and I hated it. So, although I couldn't stop them per se, I could do something to help my body not fear sleeping and allow it to rest in order to better deal with subsequent attacks. I used hypnosis for this and it continues to work for me almost 8 years later.

Also, I have found that by doing yoga and meditation, I am able to find some relaxation even during high cycles of 10-16 hits per day, which helps with the fatigue that comes along with that much pain.

I have also tried over the years; accupuncture, chinese medicine, energy healing and herbs such as feverfew. I have found different degrees of success at different times, much like the traditional medicines that most of us here take.

I am not advocating anyone trying these or other methods in regards to dealing with their CH; it is a personal journey and different things work for different people. And no, I don't think CH can be cured by any of these methods just as there is no pill to make it dissapear. I use these methods to help sustain and maintain the quality of life I desire.

Lastly, and sorry for the long post...I do want to assure you or anyone else, that CH is not, IMHO a punishment, either physically or spiritually. Nor do we as human beings, have much conscious control over the unconscious mechanisms of our bodies. We are perfectly human in our imperfection so we can only do what we can do. To blame ourselves for something that we cannot control is silly as well as useless.

Many people have challenges in their lives, some even more severe (again, IMHO) than CH. I do not say that to invalidate or diminish in any way, our suffering but to recognize that we are definitely not alone in our pain. And it is in our ability to continue to persevere, hope, have faith and help others continues to amaze me and it is in this that I personally experience the love of God, no matter how each individual defines it.

I hope my post doesn't offend anyone but if that is the case, please accept my apologies. My intent was, and is, to simply share my own personal experience, strength and hope.

Namaste,

Danielle

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 12^th, 2008, 5:41pm

Awesome post! I am n no way offended. ;)

I keep myself in very good shape physically, I'm a work out and diet nut, mountain and road biker. Unlike many of the diseases that ravage the populace, heart disease, diabetes, many of the cancers, this danged CH thing doesn't seem to be related to life styles. Like Brew said, if working out cured CH, we'd all look like my states governor, "The Terminator!"

If yoga helps you relax during an attack, there are undoubtedly benefits to that as far as lessening your suffering. Much of my suffering is all the damage I do to my neck and shoulders fighting an attack!!

I'm sure there may be other benefits to the homeopathic thing, I have not done enough studying of it to give an intelligent argument for or against. I'll stick with my oxygen and lithium because it works. Your girl friend will never understand the pain of CH, thank goodness for that. She eventually needs to understand....that she will never understand.

Your choice of how you treat your CH is one of the most personal and individual choices you make. It's how you exert control over the beast. Good luck which ever way you go!

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 12^th, 2008, 5:50pm

Dude, I generally run two marathons a year and stay in condition year round. Whether it has helped or not - who knows, maybe it would have been worse, but I still get my 2 cycles a year. I eat right and I don't buy into the homeopathic stuff.
The only clear benefit is that I tend to have some level of emotional strength that comes from the endurance training -- that does not translate into being able to endure the pain any better. Set me in a room with an imitrex injection and a CH hitting and tell me to "endure", I'm taknig the shot in 30 seconds.

Anyway, good luck with the girlfriend - she hasn't a clue. She could spend a little time on the site reading the supporter are -- that might be worth it for you.

Scott

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Beastfodder on Feb 13^th, 2008, 6:44pm

Respect to the seasonalboomer for two marathons a year whether he wants to or not!

Wholeheartedly agree with getting and staying in tip top condition and now run more regularly than I probably ever have. Since I've been fit o2 has picked up any attacks from CCH that's dared breakthrough the clusterbusters regime (seeds and mushrooms kind of qualify as healthfoods too).

Fortunately for now that's all I need to get by - but you've got to find the best cure that works for you. Excercise doesn't seem to be a trigger, but you won't catch me near a sauna in season or a homeothapy practitioner.

All the best

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Superdave on Feb 14^th, 2008, 7:03pm

Wow,
Thanks to everone for their comments, I've fought this beast for 5 years with really no clue what was wrong with me. I've been told by every one who had anything to do with any kind of health dicipline, that they could help me with my headache. But nothing ever worked. God bless them for it. But no different than the 3 neuroligist I saw they didn't know what my condition was, nor did they know how to address it .
The headache clinic I'm going to now actualy identified my condition in about 10 min. but didn't really put the whole thing into perspective for me.
Now that I have found you guys I really know what I'm up against and thank you all for it.
I would like to help anyone hear that I can. But when It comes to ch I feel like a baby amongst you guys. The only thing I could say to anyone reading this post that is not sure why they have headache, is to see the best Dr. possible now, no matter the cost. If I had done this 5 years ago I might not be cronic.
Superdave

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by sandie99 on Feb 15^th, 2008, 1:15pm

Superdave,

The same fall I got my first ch hits, I begun to practice yoga. That was back in 2001. I have been doing daily yoga/pilates ever since.

What comes to nutrition, I ate lots of crap during my early ch years, but I cleaned up my diet in 2004 and gave up soft drinks and candy and cakes and eat chips and crisps only on occasionally. The changes I made made all the difference what comes to my energy levels and well-being.

Naturally I'd like to think that the changes I made played a part when ch went into remission for a sometime in 2005, but I continued living the same way when the beast returned in 2006, so I'm not convinced.

But feeling great generally does help what comes to dealing with the devil, that is clear.

Sanna

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by maryo on Feb 15^th, 2008, 10:38pm

Superdave!

Oh, my, does your story sound familiar. When my CH first hit (I was twenty eight, I'm now 55), I was dating a guy who was kinda like your girlfriend. When I got hit with a cluster, I would have to sneak out of the room to ingest meds -- essentially poison -- to take care of myself. He was into Rolfing, macrobiotics, and all kinds of other stuff that he considered superior. But he wasn't the last person to respond to my condition with arrogance. I've had to "train" close family and friends. I explain that pain that would make you think about driving into a tree will motivate you to try anything and everything, and I have. In 20 years in addition to the several family docs and 3 neuros I tried 3 acupuncturists, a homeopath, 3 chiropractors, several massage therapists (can never go wrong there) an herbalist . . . I'm even going to a DO right now because I never tried osteopathic but a part of me knows that, basically, I'm paying him to learn he can't cure cluster headaches.

I AM healthy. I exercise, I eat right, I take care of myself. I went without drinking alcohol for years, don't drink in cycle, and never smoked. I even gave up coffee at one point. None of these things made the slightest dent in my CH experience. I hate taking the meds. They ARE poison. My body doesn't have a Verapamil deficiency. But right now I seem to have become chronic and I am grateful for whatever makes my life manageable.

You know, human suffering has many origins. Some are self-inflicted (lung disease from smoking) and some are shear bad luck (Linda McCartney dying of cancer). All of us here are like lottery winners. We are the 1 in 3,000 (or whataever) who suffer from "Suicide Headaches." There are simply some things we humans have no control over.

Those with CH suffer enough. What we really need, and deserve, is TLC. Your girlfriend says you lack faith in natural healing. It sounds more like she lacks faith in you, hon. Glad you found us, and enjoy the understanding and support that abounds here!

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by brewcrew on Feb 15^th, 2008, 10:55pm

on 02/15/08 at 22:38:38, maryo wrote:

I hate taking the meds. They ARE poison.

What the hell is it with people calling the meds we take poison?

These "poisons" have given hundreds, nay thousands, of people their lives back.

Give it a rest.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Feb 15^th, 2008, 11:49pm

Definition of poison (From Wikipedia):

Poisons are substances that can cause damage, illness, or death to organisms, usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism.

Definition of medicament (from TheFreeDictionary):

An agent that promotes recovery from injury or ailment.
Something that treats or prevents or alleviates the symptoms of disease.

My definition of acupuncturists, homeopaths, chiropractors, osteopaths:

Quacks, especially when it comes to treat clusterheadaches.

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 15^th, 2008, 11:50pm

You got that right Brew. Wish it weren't necessary? O.K.

Poison? PULEASE..

As far as the diet, yoga, excersize, health foods, and homeo=pathics. Guisrppi would certainly be the poster boy on this subject. And still he suffers. :-/

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by maryo on Feb 16^th, 2008, 8:33am

Ouch! Be nice, friends. If you read my post, you'll see I'm agreeing with your view of alternative health care providers as being quacks when it comes to CH.

If you study pharmacology you know that many medications are indeed poisons that have beneficial side effects. They also have negative side effects, often after long use. Medication decisions come down to weighing benefit vs. harm. I regularly see the harm done by medications in my workplace.

"Poisons are substances that can cause damage, illness, or death to organisms, usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism."

If you really think about this definition of poison, you have to admit that very few medications do not fit it. In fact it was a doctor who explained to me that "medications are poisons with beneficial side effects."

I am not making an argument against medication. I'm for them when necessary but realistic about what they essentially are.

In any case, the point is that Superdave should not have to defend whatever he needs to do to manage his headaches!

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by brewcrew on Feb 16^th, 2008, 10:28am

Then H2O is a poison, too - by your definition.

I pray you haven't scared off any newbies that might be looking for true relief.

Perhaps you should think about the ramifications of what you write before you write it.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by George_J on Feb 16^th, 2008, 11:51am

I don't see it as a series of positions that are subject to "attacks" that need to be "defended". What I see is a group of people who are trying to sort through treatment choices in order to determine which are effective and which are not. I don't see Superdave being "attacked" here--questioning the utility of an approach is not an attack--it's an attempt to reach a reasonable consensus, based on the experience of others.

Obviously, some of the powerful pharmaceuticals we use have significant side effects--we'd be foolish not to acknowledge them. Benefits must be weighed against shortcomings, and treatment decisions made by a doctor and his/her patient will, perforce, be very individual. Side-effects, if clearly understood, do not render these substances useless and harmful "poisons". At the same time, we cannot consider them innocuous, since they clearly are not.

Embracing ineffective "alternative" treatments willy-nilly without question, however, is just as foolish--it's the domain of charlatans and purveyors of snake oil, with their useless "testimonials". That's not to say that all "alternative" treatments are worthless--some are demonstrably useful, with fewer side-effects than pharmaceuticals. The only way we can discover these, however, is to thoroughly hash them out, and nobody's going to do it for us. We're it. Those sorts of discussions are only going to happen here.

In an ideal world, the treatment for cluster headaches would be widely available, cheap, and demonstrate no side-effects--but until someone figures out how to synthesize the cure for CH from mud and dandelions, we're going to have to sort through the next-best choices. I think that's worth a few bruised feelings when someone's pet theory gets parsed and dissected.

Personally, I'm not married to any one approach to treating CH. I'm willing to listen to all sorts of ideas--but at the same time, I'm not willing to be so open-minded that the wind whistles through.

If I presented something new that I thought might be of interest to everyone here, I would EXPECT it to be scrutinized.

Keep pluggin' away at it, Superdave. Asking questions is how we all learn.

All the best,

George

Edited for grammatical screwups.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by MJ on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:12pm

Ditto George

well said.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by brewcrew on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:40pm

George - I can't disagree with anything you've stated. I merely resent the implication (not by you) that the meds we take somehow do us only harm and no good. That is the very definition of the word "poison."

Even if they did more harm than good, one might consider calling them poison. But in many, many cases they actually do more good than harm.

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by maryo on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:42pm

Thanks for your wisdom George. After all, we're all on the same team, aren't we?

When I saw this osteopath last week, he said he detected a hint of pessimism. I relayed to him all the alternative folks who had genuinely wished to help me but could not, adding that if he indeed "cured" my CH he would be instantly famous. I'm ready for a cure. Hey, I'd settle for a placebo effect. But the only thing making things work for me right now is Verapamil!

Title: Re: Homeopathy/Physical Fitness/Conditioning
Post by brewcrew on Feb 16^th, 2008, 12:48pm

Teammates work toward the same common goal.