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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> A cure in two words?
        
(Message started by: RogerG on Jan 30^th, 2008, 5:40pm)

Title: A cure in two words?
Post by RogerG on Jan 30^th, 2008, 5:40pm

CHANGE HEMISPHERES

I am now 54 and been suffering since late teens. I seem to go 18 months to 2 years without clusters. Ice sometimes helps and various other tricks but when a bad one is coming, there is nothing to do but suffer. However, my work takes me from UK to Africa and within two days of arriving, the headaches stop and my head feels clear again. If I return to UK too soon, back they come.

Anyone had any similar experiences?

Roger

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Jonny on Jan 30^th, 2008, 5:53pm

Cure?

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by artonio7 on Jan 30^th, 2008, 6:02pm

on 01/30/08 at 17:40:46, RogerG wrote:

Nope

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 30^th, 2008, 6:53pm

That's one I'll have to remember for the annual "best cure awards".

;)

Scott

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 30^th, 2008, 6:57pm

Helen, Brace yourself.

We'll all be there in a few days.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 30^th, 2008, 7:08pm

Sheeeeeit.

Potter

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by DennisM1045 on Jan 30^th, 2008, 8:01pm

on 01/30/08 at 18:57:29, Linda_Howell wrote:

Helen, Brace yourself.

We'll all be there in a few days.

Uh ... Linda ... I don't know quite how to break this to ya but moving in with Helen wouldn't change your hemisphere. You'd have to move south of the equator.

Now, let's all plan to move in with Aussie Brian and Annette!

Of course by this advice they should be cured. Right?

[smiley=tongue2.gif]

-Dennis-

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by artonio7 on Jan 30^th, 2008, 8:30pm

Or.......

http://artonio7.com/hemihead.jpg

;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Annette on Jan 31^st, 2008, 12:04am

on 01/30/08 at 20:01:26, DennisM1045 wrote:

Hey Dennis you are all welcome to move Down Under with us :) but then you will all be cured and we will still be suffering ! :P

Tell you what, how about we swap houses, you move down here and we move up there .. . Instant cure with a bit of sight seeing thrown in as well ;)

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by nani on Jan 31^st, 2008, 12:16am

There may be something helpful when one makes a move closer to the Equator.
There was a speaker at the Clusterbuster Conference who has a theory and some anecdotal evidence about it.

Watch the General Boards for an announcement about the Conference Report.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 31^st, 2008, 12:31am

on 01/30/08 at 17:53:22, Jonny wrote:

Cure?

He did end the statement with a question mark, meaning he was asking IF it might be a cure. He wasn't stating it was a cure.

Roger,
Some people have noticed a marked improvement in their cycles when they move or vacation to a location closer to the equator, from a more northern location. There has long been speculation that moving closer to the equator would help people. No one to my knowledge has any real evidence of this other than people with similar stories to yours. Also, no one has come up with a plausible explanation as to why this might be, although anecdotal evidence such as this is often how new breakthroughs begin to be considered.

All that said, you aren't alone in your experience.

It seems to me, after hearing of these stories and following up on them, that it has more to do with that sort of "change" bringing about the improvement, than just the location.
I'm under the impression that if you moved there (Africa), your body would then eventually become accustomed to the new location and your clusters would come back, while in Africa.

Bobw

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by George_J on Jan 31^st, 2008, 12:34am

Maybe I'm naive, but if we just change this:

http://usera.imagecave.com/georgboise/StarterGlobeFSM_2.jpg

to this:

http://usera.imagecave.com/georgboise/StarterGlobeFSM_2-copy.jpg

None of us should have to move, right?

:-/

Best,

George

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by LeeS on Jan 31^st, 2008, 5:20am

Interesting Roger. As others have said, this comes up periodically. However, perhaps importantly you don't say precisely where in Africa you travel and for how long you stay before returning for it to remain efficacious?

There is some evidence that the prevalence and incidence of CH increases the further away from the equator people are, but this evidence is scant and may be highly influenced by logistical limitations of epidemiological studies in some regions/countries. But in theory, if you travel to say Kenya, your CH could improve whereas if you travelled to say RSA, then your CH shouldn't change significantly.

If this theory does hold true then it may be because of the limited variation in day length i.e. a pretty consistent 12 hour light period throughout the year around the equator. Over time, this may in some way help re-set the master body clock, specifically the suprachiasmatic nucleus housed within the hypothalamus (either the left or right one, depending on your preference). Indeed this may be the latent mechanism of action for some CH treatments, particularly indole-ring based medication and perhaps even neurostimulation.

Anyway, if it is Kenya that you visit then all the best with it (but keep your head down).

-Lee

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by artonio7 on Jan 31^st, 2008, 7:31am

on 01/31/08 at 05:20:01, LeeS wrote:

... just a thought... if the logic is that the amount of light effects the cycle... then a strong reasoning would follow that full spectrum light therapy would lead to a significant change in our ch cycles. In other words... why move closer to the equator if you can just sit in front of a bank of lights for 12 hours or more a day?

Modified to add: Are there any ch suffers who have been blind since birth?

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 31^st, 2008, 7:53am

Santa Claus must be chronic then. As well as all eskimos and a number of Exxon employees.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by LeeS on Jan 31^st, 2008, 7:53am

on 01/31/08 at 07:31:28, artonio7 wrote:

It is all to do with lux I think Tony; that is, how bright light is. For example, a brightly lit office will give you about 400 lux, whereas day light can give you up to 100,000 (on a sunny day).

You'd need quite a few light bulbs to match the equator!

-Lee

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 31^st, 2008, 8:40am

It is at this point when I feel the collective insecurity of the CH world. Every time some one has ever told you, "take a few tylenols and lie down", or, "it seems like they come back when you start to think about them." I see threads like this and it pisses me off.

These things aren't a sore back or a sour mood. Someone can always come up with another anectdotal piece of BS that tells us something else. I had a steak at Morton's one time and it averted a headache, I watched the Pittsburg Penguins win one time, and my headache went away, if I stare real hard into the TV when Kaite Couric is doing the news I can avoid getting hit. For Christ's sake.

Sorry, grumpy today.

Scott >:(

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by pattik on Jan 31^st, 2008, 8:44am

Roger,
We just don't have enough anecdotal evidence yet about permanent moves towards the equator helping CH. Your experience can add to what we suspect. But if you're taking prolonged trips away from the UK, I suspect that your positive changes are more about messing with your circadian rhythm. When you return to your normal routine, so can the CH.

-Patti

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 31^st, 2008, 9:34am

on 01/31/08 at 00:16:16, nani wrote:

There may be something helpful when one makes a move closer to the Equator.
There was a speaker at the Clusterbuster Conference who has a theory and some anecdotal evidence about it.

I see this was discussed also back in 2003 for the convention at Alexandria Bay, NY.

Quote:

The prevalence of CH is 0.4% overall. That is, CH may be 1% in New England, and only 0.1% in Brazil. The reason for this, is, they are now exploring the theory that CH is affected by environmental conditions, to include latitude. CH appears to be much more common in cold climate countries than it is in warm climates. They believe this may be due to hot climate countries being closer to the equator and don't experience the shorter and longer days of the year. This all ties in to the circadian rhythms. This also is only prevalent in CH sufferers, not in migraine, not in tension, not in sinus, etc. They believe that the circadian rhythms and the hypothalamus are triggered into derangement because of the winter and summer solstice.

Quote:

Watch the General Boards for an announcement about the Conference Report.

Incidentally, I want to mention that sharing the knowledge of discussions from the conventions is very welcome and that reading Cat's so-far unparalleled coverage of guest speakers at the NY convention in a timely manner was a benchmark in excellence.

Check this out!

http://www.ouch-us.org/gatherings/03.htm

Thank you Cat. :)

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by monty on Jan 31^st, 2008, 9:40am

on 01/31/08 at 08:40:52, seasonalboomer wrote:

My clusters are strongly tied to the calendar and the clock. Travel can change the pattern. It isn't a cure, it is not as simple as changing hemispheres. Yet I am convinced time-shifting can affect things (for better or worse).

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by hotprestwich on Jan 31^st, 2008, 11:12am

if we all went to live in space on the space station,do you think we wouldnt get clusters?????

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 31^st, 2008, 11:22am

on 01/31/08 at 11:12:02, hotprestwich wrote:

if we all went to live in space on the space station,do you think we wouldnt get clusters?????

Skylab? No. Pretty sure it fell out of orbit and burned up many years ago. Slight miscalculation with something to do with the Sun. ;)

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Stinger on Jan 31^st, 2008, 1:29pm

I think gravity has a profound effect on CH

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by karma on Jan 31^st, 2008, 1:40pm

I've spent my entire life about 1,080 miles north of the equator.
Still get em every 2 -..5 years. I honestly don't know anyone else with CH that has grown up this far south.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Pfunk on Jan 31^st, 2008, 2:00pm

Interestingly enough, I went to high school in New Jersey and college in West Virginia. I experienced not one HA the entire time I was I was in either place. Maybe it was just coincidence or maybe I came home right on time for my cycles to star each year. Whatever it is/was. As long as I'm in SC, the HA's are horrible. There's my 2 cents( can I write that off?)LOL! Every little bit counts right?

Pfunk ;)

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 31^st, 2008, 3:19pm

Quote:

Helen, Brace yourself.

We'll all be there in a few days.

Uh ... Linda ... I don't know quite how to break this to ya but moving in with Helen wouldn't change your hemisphere. You'd have to move south of the equator.

Your right Dennis...but Helen always makes delicious dinners for visiting guests and we'd all have to stop somewhere on our way to a different hemishpere. ;;D

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by barry_sword on Jan 31^st, 2008, 6:39pm

We live on the 45th Parallel, halfway between the Equator and the North Pole! :) No cure here! Must move. ;;D
Annette, were on our way, do you like cats? [smiley=grin2.gif]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8df10b3127cceb50204a2815500000026101AZtGrZu5asU

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Annette on Jan 31^st, 2008, 8:08pm

on 01/31/08 at 18:39:52, barry_sword wrote:

We live on the 45th Parallel, halfway between the Equator and the North Pole! :) No cure here! Must move. ;;D
Annette, were on our way, do you like cats? [smiley=grin2.gif]

Room all set up for you and I love all animals :-* When are you arriving ? :)

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by runningman on Feb 3^rd, 2008, 11:49pm

i've got your "cure" right here, in 2 words:

breathe hard

i have posted this before, hope it can help someone who is listening...

i read years ago on this board about a guy who went down into his basement and lifted weights whenever he got a ch. I think it was a squat exercise. And if I recall correctly, a comment was made about heavy breathing and how it seemed to help. Well, I am not a weight lifter, but I am no stranger to exercise. So the next time I was visited by the beast, I went for a run. Just ran out the door and down the street. And at first nothing happened. I ran until I was heaving (not long in distance..like a lot of you, I smoke, so we're talking about a block here), but the pain was still coming. So I ran some more. And slowly started to notice that the headache was not getting worse. That in itself was a victory. And then it started to go away. Within 5 minutes, I was woozy and breathing hard but NO CH. In fact I could feel some of the signals that the beast was going going gone... I continued to use this method for the rest of that cycle with perfect results every time. Breathe hard, headache went away.

Since then I have had about 3 cycles of about a month each. My cluster cycles are 18 months to 2 years apart. Can you believe that the first one after finding this "cure", I had already forgotten, and I sat through 2 cycles over 2 years by just bearing the pain (and puking, and tearing, and scaring the hell out of my friends and family, some of whom just left me in the dust since they couldn't understand what was happening to me). Then I remembered, exercise !

So, 2 years ago, when I started gettin 'em again, at 2.30 or 3 in the morning, I just laced up the running shoes and out the door. Fast, because the ramp up was fast and I was hurting by the time I got outside (must've been ramping up in my sleep and I did not wake up until late into the beginning phases). And I ran, and ran. AND THE CH went away. That fall I got blisters on my feet from rubbing against the shoes. And my legs were sore, knees a little achy. And I was definitely a little weak and woozy after each episode, BUT THE CH went away. 100% effective.

Now, I have been getting some mild ones this winter. But they never develop into bangers 'cause I am doing stairs at the office, squats (with no weights) at home in the middle of then night, running on the street if I can't do either of those. AND THE CH goes away every freaking time.

Let me tell you something, the beast don't like oxygen. When oxygen is present, the devil is not. My way is to breathe hard or induce hard breathing through exercise. By the way, my family doctor would not give me an o2 tank, just lots of painkillers and imitrex, which are expensive and certainly not as clean as running up and down stairs. So to hell with them, they don't know what this thing is. But you do, and I do, so believe me, oxygen therapy works, and you can get it by climbing stairs, or running around, or whatever makes you breathe hard. VIGOROUS EXERCISE MAKES THE BEAST GO AWAY. Try it, it works.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by Annette on Feb 4^th, 2008, 2:02am

Its still not a cure, just an effective abortive. Like other abortives, it works for some and not for others. Didnt work for my husband, made him dizzy and fall down. His eye would tear so much and swollen shut he often couldnt see where he was staggering let alone running down the street. He had fallen downstair many times while getting hit so running up and down the stairs is not an option either.

However, I have heard that vigorous exercises help many, so kudos to those that work well for.

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by runningman on Feb 4^th, 2008, 3:28am

i think in his case that the exercise needs to start earlier in the attack. i am doing this before the eye shuts and tears. maybe a stairmaster or another stationary exercise machine? please have him try again, believe me, this works. if it weren't that a very effective treatment is oxygen, i wouldn't make this link. i firmly believe that it can work for all if done properly, just like the oxygen treatment. you need the right method but it works... please keep trying ~!

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 4^th, 2008, 5:57am

Exercise works as abortive for some, and not for others. This has been discussed on several occasions here and the same conclusion seems to be found. For example, for some of us, exercise, while in cycle, is a trigger. The fact that it can be an abortive for you is great - but know that not everyone has the same results with various behavioral abortives.

It may be that as a result of your smoking that O2 levels are a little away from where they should be anyway, and a little exercise is enough of an oxygen bump to help you. For those of that don't smoke, maybe it is different. Any theory can lead to ten sub-postulates. That's the fun of Cluster headache.

Scott

Title: 4Re: A cure in two words?
Post by wildhaus on Feb 4^th, 2008, 10:29am

Quote:

CHANGE HEMISPHERES

Ice sometimes helps and various other tricks but when a bad one is coming, there is nothing to do but suffer. However, my work takes me from UK to Africa and within two days of arriving, the headaches stop and my head feels clear again. If I return to UK too soon, back they come.

Anyone had any similar experiences?

Roger

NO!!

Roger, I used to travel a lot, including travelling to below the 30° South….. and never had any relief!
on the contrary…. the long flight and time-zone deference’s, it seemed to “hit” harder…..

So sorry Annette…… no I am not going to move ……. way to long of a flight….. I think 30 hours
and I like it in Switzerland.

Nani and PF

Quote:

There was a speaker at the Clusterbuster Conference who has a theory and some anecdotal evidence about it

I have looked for any sort of written evidence to this theory……. could not fined any over the net… that are credible.

And like I say storeys (which might be correct) and random anecdotal evidence…. are
just mostly wishful thinking….. and as much as I would like to believe in some of
the storeys….and as you said (PF) anecdotal evidence is often how new breakthroughs begin to be considered. this one seems to me just a nice story………..

Michael

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by hotprestwich on Feb 4^th, 2008, 12:46pm

as of yet we should not use the word "cure"
they are just abortives that work for some and not for others, 02 dos'nt work for everyone either,
02 only somtimes aborts for me, but its not my magic bullet, i dont have one yet
i find coffee works better or combined with 02 thats wot i do, but if its only 02 or coffee it just seems to dull the headache down a bit, not abort,
everyones different, but its great to know what works for others

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by midwestbeth on Feb 4^th, 2008, 3:40pm

on 01/31/08 at 08:40:52, seasonalboomer wrote:

The two words

Title: Re: A cure in two words?
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Feb 5^th, 2008, 12:10am

Two words for me:
Oxy Gen