Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> kratom
        
(Message started by: durban_poison on Dec 19^th, 2007, 10:55pm)

Title: kratom
Post by durban_poison on Dec 19^th, 2007, 10:55pm

i have found "kratom" mytragyina speciosa, a plant from thailand can provide temporary relief of ch. the plant allows me to function at work under the worst circumstances. the relief however is only temporary and lasts about 6-8 hrs. i either brew a tea or take 15x extract and mix with water. has anyone else here ever tried kratom as a temporary remedey?

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 19^th, 2007, 11:01pm

No I have not. :-X

Can you give us the ingrediants in this wonder potion?

Linda

Title: Re: kratom
Post by vietvet2tours on Dec 19^th, 2007, 11:13pm

You sell this product.

Potter

Title: Re: kratom
Post by durban_poison on Dec 19^th, 2007, 11:13pm

well the active ingredient is mytragine. its not exactly a potion just plant material or extract. i personally find it not so bad tasting but many find it very bitter. i take about 8-10 grams of leaf and steep for about 15-20 mins. i usually add mint to help the flavor. it takes about 30mins till you know its working. the first effects is the pressure feeling dropping on the side of my head. then it feels kind of stimulating like coffee with a warm feeling in the stomache. after a hour into it it really takes hold of the pain. its great because it doesnt make me drowsy at work and puts you in a better mood. like i said its not a cure all but great for relief up to 8 hrs depending on dose. i dont recommend high doses over 12 grams of leaf because thats when i get drowsy and a little itchy. i have a plant of my own but it doesnt produce enough leaf yet so i still buy it from other sources. i imagine its not good to use this everyday or more then several days in a row because i have a feeling it may be addictive. a simple search on google will give a more scientific view of how it works and many sources. no i do not sell this product. indigenous people have been using it for centuries.

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 19^th, 2007, 11:23pm

Go away. We do not need nor want you here here.

You are soooo.....in the wrong place.

Title: Re: kratom
Post by durban_poison on Dec 19^th, 2007, 11:31pm

well obviously you think im trying to sell a product. im not, i was doing research and found there were others with similar issues. this works for me temporary. if you guys dont want to hear what others use why would you have this medication board? apparently i rubbed you guys the wrong way. do you greet all newcomers this way?

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Ray on Dec 20^th, 2007, 12:07am

I looked up this psychoactive plant on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom

It has opiate like qualities similar to codeine, and it has withdrawal symptoms similar to morphine. It is also listed by the US DEA as "Drugs and chemicals of concern" and is illegal in some other countries.

I don't think something that works in an hour or so would be of much help in cluster headaches, and I certainly will not be standing over a stove for a half an hour brewing an herbal remedy with one.

I'm all for "going natural" but this does not sound like an answer to me.

Good luck,

Ray

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 20^th, 2007, 12:11am

Quote:

do you greet all newcomers this way?

absolutely not. We always greet newcomers in a most respectful way when they come in here asking for help/advice/ or insights. WE...who have seen all kinds come and go...are more or less looking out for peoplewho would come here to scam our newer members.

We cannot be scammed. We have heard it all. We have seen it all. We have been there and done that.

SO? what news do you have for us? Please. We await your insights. .

Title: Re: kratom
Post by George_J on Dec 20^th, 2007, 12:16am

Apparently, the stuff can be addictive, with narcotic-like properties. This from Erowid, which website is no doubt familiar to some folks here:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_journal3.shtml

Near as I can tell, it is not a controlled substance in the U.S.

As a substance with narcotic-like properties, I'm not sure what benefit it would provide to people with CH, without knowing more about its mode of action.

Best wishes,

George

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 20^th, 2007, 12:25am

Thank you George. :-*

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 20^th, 2007, 12:46am

I have had at least one other person report to me that he had found relief, using this plant.

Bobw

Title: Re: kratom
Post by George_J on Dec 20^th, 2007, 1:12am

Another article from Erowid, concerning Australia's listing of kratom as a controlled substance in 2004. Some brief notes are included concerning mode of action.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom_info2.shtml

Title: Re: kratom
Post by nani on Dec 20^th, 2007, 1:41am

It's structurally related to tryptamines. From Wikipedia:
Kratom contains many alkaloids including mitragynine (once thought to be the primary active), mitraphylline, and 7-hydroxymitragynine (which is currently the most likely candidate for the primary active chemical in the plant). Although structurally related to yohimbine and other tryptamines, its pharmacology is quite different, acting primarily as a mu-opioid receptor agonist.

Also from Wikipedia:
Naturally occurring tryptamines (see also Table of naturally occurring tryptamines) Short Name Rα R4 R5 R6 RN1 RN2 Full Name
Bufotenin H H OH H CH3 CH3 5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
DMT H H H H CH3 CH3 N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Melatonin H H OCH3 H O=CH-CH3 H 5-methoxy-N-acetyltryptamine
5-MeO-DMT H H OCH3 H CH3 CH3 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
NMT H H H H H CH3 N-methyltryptamine
Psilocybin H PO4 H H CH3 CH3 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Psilocin H OH H H CH3 CH3 4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
Serotonin H H OH H H H 5-hydroxytryptamine
Tryptophan COOH H H H H H α-carboxyltryptamine

Synthetic tryptamines
*snippage*
Sumatriptan H H SO2NHCH3 CH3 CH3 5-methylaminosulfonyl-N,N-dimethyltryptamine
5-DAT H OCH3 H O=CH-CH3 O=CH-CH3 5-methoxy-N,N-diacetyltryptamine
HPT H H OCH3 H C9H13NO2 5-methyloxy-N-demethylhydroxyephedryltryptamine

Could be something to it. I'm going to stick with psilocybin for now. No opiate like anything...

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Gator on Dec 20^th, 2007, 9:45am

on 12/19/07 at 23:13:24, durban_poison wrote:

steep for about 15-20 mins.

it takes about 30mins till you know its working

after a hour into it it really takes hold of the pain.

I try to be open minded, but if it takes an hour, plus the 15 - 20 minutes steeping time, to "really take hold of the pain," what good is it for ch?

Title: Re: kratom
Post by monty on Dec 20^th, 2007, 5:06pm

If it works for 6-8 hours, that is enough time to get some sleep.

It blocks the 5HT-2a receptors (serotonin 2), so I would expect it to work. But it also acts on the opioid receptors, so there is an addictive potential.

Have you tried kudzu? That also works on 5HT-2a receptors in a similar way, but does not have the opiate effects of kratom.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=9164589

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Jonny on Dec 20^th, 2007, 8:34pm

on 12/19/07 at 22:55:18, durban_poison wrote:

i have found "kratom" mytragyina speciosa, a plant from thailand can provide temporary relief of ch. the plant allows me to function at work under the worst circumstances.

Hey man, if it works for you, God bless ya......keep doing what takes the pain away!

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Maffumatt on Dec 20^th, 2007, 10:22pm

agreed, what works for some doesn't work for others, and what worked once may not work the next time. CH is an odd Beast for sure.

Title: Re: kratom
Post by MJ on Dec 21^st, 2007, 1:56am

Everything you ever did or didnt want to know about Kratom.

http://www.iamshaman.com/kratom/kratom.htm

Excerpt
"Mitragyna species are used medicinally,...., the West African species M. inermis and M. stipulosa are effective traditional remedies against malaria, the former having also been shown by modern science to fight leukemia. Another species, M. africanus, is used in Nigeria to treat mental illness. The African species M. ciliata (aka M. ledermanni, M. stipulosa, Hallea ciliata, Hallea ledermanni or Hallea stipulosa) is used traditionally to treat inflammation, hypertension, headache, rheumatism, gonorrhea and broncho-pulmonary diseases."

Title: Re: kratom
Post by George_J on Dec 21^st, 2007, 2:30am

Good link, MJ.

For anyone who's interested, may I suggest the section on pharmacology--it gives a much more detailed analysis of what's known about kratom's mode of action than anything else I've seen. Of particular interest is the section that asserts that the action of the plant's alkaloids on the opioid receptors is predominant.

Interesting substance, but I wonder how useful it might be in the treatment of CH.

Best,

George

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Gator on Dec 21^st, 2007, 11:18am

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for whatever works. If this works for you, more power to ya.

It's definitely not an abortive and considering the addictive potential combined with the thought that clusterheads have addictive personalities to begin with, it is not something I would suggest using as a preventative on a regular basis.

Good luck and please be careful.

Title: Re: kratom
Post by brewcrew on Dec 21^st, 2007, 4:43pm

on 12/21/07 at 11:18:13, Gator wrote:

...clusterheads have addictive personalities to begin with,

Excuse me? I can quit anytime I want. It's easy. I've done it hundreds of times. ;)

Title: Re: kratom
Post by Gator on Dec 21^st, 2007, 5:53pm

on 12/21/07 at 16:43:22, brewcrew wrote:

Excuse me? I can quit anytime I want. It's easy. I've done it hundreds of times. ;)

Yep and oxygen "cures" my clusters several times a day. ;)