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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
        
(Message started by: thomas on Nov 26^th, 2007, 2:46pm)

Title: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 26^th, 2007, 2:46pm

There is a nasal spray called "4 Way", you have to use 4WAY, not affrin, not Wall4 (the wallgreens version) it has to be 4WAY. How to use it, don't go by the directions for clearing your sinuses, but hold your head back, place the nozzle in your ch side nostril and shoot a stream, NOT a mist, but a stream into the top your sinus on your CH side. In about 2-5 mins you should notice a lessening of the intensity, or a complete abort of the CH. Sometimes it takes about 3 shots to kill it. If you haven't tried this, you should, it's cheap and when it works, it works quicker than imitrex shots.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by brewcrew on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:01pm

on 11/26/07 at 14:46:09, thomas wrote:

Thomas - Does this 4WAY contain the same ingredient(s) that Afrin does for clearing the sinuses?

A long time ago (pre-CH) I used to use Afrin for head colds and sinus problems. I found that after using it for just about 3 days or so, my sinuses would get stuffier when I stopped using it. There were even a few times that I felt I was addicted to it because I couldn't breathe without it. Life was great when I used it, but it sucked even worse when I tried to get off it.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by nani on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:03pm

Hmmm. Funny you should bring this up, T.
I've been battling both a nasty cycle and a sinus infection of late. I got the Walgreens brand mostly for the sinus issues, and have been careful not to overuse it because of the dependence issues.
I've been busting every 5 days, but have still had a number of high level hits that nothing is working to abort. The hits tend to run a full 2 to 3 hours, too.
So, yesterday, at about an hour and a half into an 8, with my nose running and extremely stuffy at the same time, I reached for the spray in desperation. I tilted my head back and squirted some in (since I wasn't going to get anything through the congestion). It loosened thing up enough for me to gently blow my nose, and then I repeated this a few times. It didn't abort the hit, but I did feel like it helped a little.

I'll get the brand name spray today.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:04pm

Don't know if it's the same as afrin or not, just know that it works for me and afrin doesn't

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by brewcrew on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:25pm

Afrin active ingredient: Oxymetazoline Hydrochloride 0.05%

4 Way active ingredient: Phenylephrine Hydrochloride 1%

Could be the difference. I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Monty on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:25pm

A friend who is a physical therapist once was telling me about her most challenging patient to date - someone that massively abused nasal sprays and had an aneurysm. Don't know which brand or what ingredient.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by brewcrew on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:41pm

Were the nasal spray abuse and the aneurism cause-and-effect related?

Sheesh - You'd think if somebody was going to abuse something, there'd at least be some fun in it.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Monty on Nov 26^th, 2007, 3:44pm

She thought so. Not sure if it did or didnt cause it, but the sprays can really clamp the vessels closed (and make things swell when stopping them).

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Gena on Nov 26^th, 2007, 4:32pm

on 11/26/07 at 15:44:12, Monty wrote:

but the sprays can really clamp the vessels closed .

Must be why it works.

Right now I have one week till Insurance kicks in, and 3 people having CH.

Whatever it takes!!!!!

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Racer1_NC on Nov 26^th, 2007, 4:51pm

4-Way has been in my back of tricks for a good while. I use it mostly for shadows and lower level hits. The stuff works....particularly when it's fresh off the shelf.

You can over use it, but when you are getting hammered with no O2 or other abortives it's a life saver.

A note for Zomig nasal users.......I have found if you use the 4-Way on your hit side, the Zomig won't work on that side....use the other nostril.

B

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 26^th, 2007, 4:52pm

on 11/26/07 at 16:51:00, Racer1_NC wrote:

Been waitin' for you to chime in on this one. ;)

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Racer1_NC on Nov 26^th, 2007, 4:57pm

on 11/26/07 at 16:52:10, thomas wrote:

Been waitin' for you to chime in on this one. ;)

;;D

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 26^th, 2007, 4:59pm

on 11/26/07 at 16:57:35, Racer1_NC wrote:

;;D

Must be a NC thing, because that's when I first used it.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Grinner62 on Nov 27^th, 2007, 1:09am

Does it work as a decongestant too?

The last time I used Afrin while I was in cycle, it was about 10 seconds from kip 0 to a kip 9. I don't keep any decongestants in the house now. I just say no to snotty noses.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by plungerjoke on Nov 27^th, 2007, 2:02am

i've used mucinex when i felt a headache coming on...
not sure if it helped...hard to tell ya know!
developed kind of an addiction to topical decongestants while my last cycle was a'chuggin...
(funny: i bought some of that sinus buster junk, and yeah it doesnt do CRAP for headaches... the momentary clear up of congestion it supplies is pretty good for getting off the OTC decongestants tho! suppose saline would do the trick too..!)

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by plungerjoke on Nov 27^th, 2007, 2:03am

oh yeah i was meaning to say in that post:
i think i might be confusing sinus headaches as a result of getting off the topical decongestants for shadows???
not sure
time will tell!

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 27^th, 2007, 9:15am

It is not a decongestant, just opens up the sinuses. Saline will not work (I've tried it). Trust me it has to be 4way, nothing else can do what this stuff does for a CH.

Edit to add: You have to use it the way I described above, otherwise it wont work.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by sandie99 on Nov 27^th, 2007, 12:11pm

Good to know, thank you, Thomas. When/if (well, I AM a optimist) ch returns, I'll check if we have the same/similar enough product back in here. :)

Sanna

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 27^th, 2007, 12:52pm

http://a1061.g.akamai.net/7/1061/5412/home/www.walgreens.com/dbimagecache/356555.jpg

This is what it looks like in the US. Hopefully it's available in Europe.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by chewy on Nov 27^th, 2007, 3:24pm

If it were anyone elase posting this I'd say yopu were nuts.

Well, you are nuts, but if you say it works then I'll go get me some.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thebbz on Nov 27^th, 2007, 3:52pm

"Everything goes up his nose". You are nuts. I am glad it works for you.
Keep up the good fight.
thebb

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 27^th, 2007, 4:01pm

on 11/27/07 at 15:24:33, chewy wrote:

If it were anyone elase posting this I'd say yopu were nuts.

Well, you are nuts, but if you say it works then I'll go get me some.

I know. I've used this product for a looooooonnnng time. So has Racer. We talked about sharing the news on it at the last Davcon. But were a little skeptical about the reception it would get. So I finally decided to hell with it. I figured I could handle anybody telling me to go f**k myself. And really wanted people to know about this great weapon to have in thier arsenal. And most of you know me now. And I am not selling anything, hell I don't even know who makes the stuff, I just know that it works miracles.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by E-Double on Nov 27^th, 2007, 4:14pm

I haven't had a four way since college [smiley=laugh.gif]

Good to know another trick.

Thanks thomas

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 27^th, 2007, 4:23pm

For Don and E-dub, just remember you've got to shoot a stream at the top of the ch-side sinus, not a mist. I'd love to hear if it works for you guys as well. My wife is a definate believer.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Sandy_C on Nov 27^th, 2007, 5:18pm

Thomas (and Gena), I ditto Chewy. If some newbie had posted this I would have ignored the thread. But, since it's you, I'm listening very closely.

Unfortunately, after 11 months of PF time (I'm usually no less than 18 months), I think I'm entering another cycle. For the last week, I've had heavy shadows, no hits, just shadows and I've dosed with my rc seeds. This morning, at a lovely 4:00 AM, I was awakened with more than just a shadow with about a K3, dusted off my 02 tank and aborted it. This has never happened to me before. I've always been a daytime and evening hit person.

Anyway, my right nostril (I'm a rightie), has been stuffey, itchy, and sore all day long. Cycle? Not a cycle? Not sure yet, but I'm getting 4WAY right now.

Thanks for the tip.

Sandy

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by JoeS on Nov 27^th, 2007, 6:24pm

The active ingredient (Phenylphrine HCL) is indeed a "decongestant" -- in fact it's been the primary replacement for Pseudoephedrine in most over-the-counter cold medicines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylephrine

Not that it matters what it is, as long as it works. I'd stick my fist up my nose to stop a cluster.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by brewcrew on Nov 27^th, 2007, 8:06pm

on 11/27/07 at 18:24:08, JoeS wrote:

I'd stick my fist up my nose to stop a cluster.

You mean you're not supposed to do that?

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by cynjeep89 on Nov 27^th, 2007, 8:38pm

No, a foot works much better ;;D

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by plungerjoke on Nov 28^th, 2007, 12:07am

just as i suspected..
another topical decongestant

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by JoeS on Nov 28^th, 2007, 5:14am

Quote:

just as i suspected..
another topical decongestant

Please explain why I (or you) should care whether or not it's a decongestant....

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by plungerjoke on Nov 28^th, 2007, 5:20am

it isnt really the best idea to take them for more than 3 days in a row,
dependency is very easy...
i got over my cycle and am having some major congestion issues (sinus headaches ... which i have not gotten in a long time!)
having trouble getting off of them... thats all...

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by cluster on Nov 28^th, 2007, 5:47am

on 11/27/07 at 15:24:33, chewy wrote:

If it were anyone elase posting this I'd say yopu were nuts.

... that's why I never told you. ;)

During the years before my CH diagnosis 2005 I "treated" appr. 1000 hits more or less successfully with OTC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylometazoline 0.1% .

For me this "treatment" works for not so severe hits but doesn't work for really severe hits. O2 works better for me.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Nov 28^th, 2007, 11:15am

on 11/28/07 at 05:20:31, plungerjoke wrote:

Then you probably shouldn't use it.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by nani on Dec 7^th, 2007, 10:25am

Hey...I tried this (the name brand) the other day. I was getting hit, at work, Rockstar wasn't working, a SPUT didn't work... so I reached for the 4-WAY, and 2 applications later...I was PF. :D

Thanks, Thomas (and Bill) there is nothing better than having another weapon in the arsenal!

hugs, nani

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by thomas on Dec 7^th, 2007, 11:07am

Glad it worked for you. We sometimes forget just how wiley the beast is, he gets smart and our old reliables don't get the job done over time (right now melatonin is doing absolutely nothing for me), and we have to trip him up with something new. Hope this is over for you soon.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Racer1_NC on Dec 7^th, 2007, 11:22am

Very cool! Glad it helped!

B

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Annette on Dec 7^th, 2007, 3:30pm

on 11/27/07 at 16:23:56, thomas wrote:

For Don and E-dub, just remember you've got to shoot a stream at the top of the ch-side sinus, not a mist. I'd love to hear if it works for you guys as well. My wife is a definate believer.

Thomas, how do you shoot a stream and not a mist ? do you insert the nozzle deep into the nostril then push pump ? Thanks

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Gena on Dec 7^th, 2007, 9:04pm

You have to tilt your head back so the air in the bottle is behind the liquid, then squeeze the bottle and a stream will come out instead of a mist, practice it while not getting hit.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by Annette on Dec 7^th, 2007, 10:46pm

Thanks Gena :)

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by MJ on Dec 8^th, 2007, 4:02am

Beware

Back many years ago, early 80s, I used the 4 way stuff for CH 3 or 4 bottles a week used it so much that I actually burned out the linings in my nostrils. Literally holes in the insides of the nose. So be carefull.

Contrary to the literature There is an addictive or dependency thing after a while and its tough to break the habit. It can also severely lengthen a cycle and increase the volume of hits. This from personal experience nothing more. A sure sign is feeling flushed in the face or cold skin, trembling and a nervous feeling.

This I can remember quite well from using it to excess over 20 years back. Other than smoking it was my only other major addiction way back. Same potential and similar to speed after prolonged use.

Epinephrine, phenylephrine, sudafed all false ephedrine.

If they work for you it may be worth trying ephedrine in low doses. Of course you need to be carefull there too.

Just be aware and I dont think it can hurt short term. Though there may be interactions with verapamil and the like.

In a pinch you gotta do what you gotta do.

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by EstieSA on Dec 8^th, 2007, 4:10am

This is what we have locally -> http://www.intekom.com/pharm/hmr/nasomixn.html

Mebbe I give it a try, no ?

Title: Re: Cheap OTC that can abort a lot of hits.
Post by nani on Dec 8^th, 2007, 1:06pm

on 12/08/07 at 04:10:46, EstieSA wrote:

Mebbe I give it a try, no ?

It looks similar, Estie. Yours contains steroids, so between that and the possibility of rebound congestion, I'd use it sparingly.

pf wishes, nani