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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
        
(Message started by: ski2k on Sep 5^th, 2007, 12:27am)

Title: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Sep 5^th, 2007, 12:27am

I got 'em!! ;;D

My seeds came in the mail saturday! I'm currently detoxing and gotta say.... Getting off Zoloft is a BITCH! I'm planning of trying my first dose (about 10? seeds) on friday if all goes well. Sure am getting excited!!
As I wrote a week or so ago, I'm at the very beginning of my cycle (some shadows and one kip 3 CH), and I'm gonna try to knock the beast out before he takes hold. My cycles usually last 4-6 months (last one was long, about 61/2), so if nothing else, I'm hoping to keep the beast at bay for as long as possible. Naturally I'm hoping to skip this cycle all together!!
For those of you keeping track, or those of you wanting to try this treatment out, I will be trying to post any results I have in this thread. Should be easier to keep track of that way, I think.
Wish me luck!!!

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by andrewjb on Sep 5^th, 2007, 1:59am

:). the very best of luck. remember to breath deep and stay hydrated. andrew.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 8^th, 2007, 12:02am

Well, dose number 1 went off without a hitch. No "trip" at all, no beast, no shadows, no problem! I've felt a little sluggish today, but I'm thinking that's cuz of the Zoloft withdrawls I'm dealing with. Been feeling like that for a few days now.
Also been looking out for an energy drink I like. I really don't care for Red Bull, and I've tried a few others here and there. Finally found one I like, Freek (manic), and I'm gonna give that a try should the beast rear it's ugly head. That'll be a first for me too.

Well, I guess that's it for now. Hope to keep up this PF time!! Hope all you get PF time too!!

Adam

Sorry it wasn't an "exciting" update, but to me, no pain IS exciting!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by nani on Sep 8^th, 2007, 12:53am

on 09/08/07 at 00:02:57, ski2k wrote:

Sorry it wasn't an "exciting" update, but to me, no pain IS exciting!!

Yup...no pain is definitely exciting!
Don't be surprised or alarmed if it becomes necessary to dose again, Adam. It happens.
I'm happy to see such excellent results right out of the gate, though.
hugs, nani

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 8^th, 2007, 8:37pm

Hey!! Got another question...

Since dosing, I've gone from light shadows beforehand, to no shadows now, and have still only had that one mild CH shortly BEFORE trying the seeds.None since.
Should I take another dose, or wait to see if this cycle is gonna hit? The "maintenance dosing" was kinda vague in the instructions I read, so I'm not sure what I should do. Are the seeds working, or has the beast just not taken a strong enough hold yet?
Just a reminder, I'm at the very beginning of my cycle, and don't usually see a whole lot of activity for the first month or so. After that, I'm usually hit multiple times daily for the next 4 months or so, peaking toward the end of my cycle...

Any feedback from those in the know, or those who have avoided a cycle completely by using the seeds, would be greatly appreciated... Thanx all!

Where do I go from here?

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by andrewjb on Sep 8^th, 2007, 8:56pm

:), hello. my answer to these realy good questions............."I DUNO". we are each individuals here, ied be ready to dose at the first sign. remember to breath deep, and water, water, water. stay alert ! [smiley=laugh.gif]. andrew.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 8^th, 2007, 9:11pm

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Always looking for such exceptional advice, Andrew!!
Thanx! LOL

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by andrewjb on Sep 8^th, 2007, 9:45pm

;;D, sorry not to be more eloquant. but realy, the way any given treatment works, seems to depend on your "style" of CH. hope you get loads of PF time. andrew. :). its a work in progress.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by nani on Sep 8^th, 2007, 9:54pm

I dunno, either. ;;D But, I do know what I would do, if it were me.

I would wait, and pay attention. Should activity return, or you start getting hit again, I would dose again. Should things stay the same, or get better, I'd consider dosing at 2 week intervals until I was sure my cycle was over.

Some out of cycle people dose with a small amount monthly, and increase if a cycle should rear it's ugly head.

Keep us posted, Adam. hugs, nani

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by MJ on Sep 9^th, 2007, 1:06am

Adam good advice above.

Pay close attention to your head. Wait untill the slightest symptoms return. theres no mistaking a cluster symptom if you've had them a while.
You may have hit it at just the right time. No point in upsetting a good thing.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 9^th, 2007, 4:29am

Thanx for your input. Sounds like the bottom line is don't mess with a good thing then. I guess I just wait, and see where the cycle goes from here!
And yes... I will keep you posted.

Thanx again, and PFDAN

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by Sandy_C on Sep 9^th, 2007, 12:52pm

Hi Adam.

I'm one of the montly maintenance dosers. I take 12 seeds the first of every month. The minute I start getting that old awful feeling that my cycle is going to start (my last one was first of January), I immediately upped the ante and dosed with 25 to 30 seeds, waited 5 days, then took another 25 to 30 seeds. My cycle was completely aborted with one K7 hit, and a couple of K2 to 3 hits. Gone! It was amazing!

Pay very close attention to every little itch, twinge, tingle and determine if it's CH, or just an itch. If you think it's CH, dose.
Even the 30 seeds, did not send me on a trip, but I slept like a baby.

Sandy

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 10^th, 2007, 11:45pm

Here's an update:
Had one pretty good shadow early this morning, but one NOS energy drink knocked it out with a quickness!
Gonny try another dose on wed. or thurs. and see if I can't get rid of the shadows too!

Thanx to all for the energy drink idea... Worked like a charm!

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by ski2k on Sep 12^th, 2007, 7:19am

Dosed again this morning with about 17 seeds. Had a wicked headache (not CH) at the time. I was hoping it would knock out that headache, but no such luck. I ended up taking 800mg. of Ibuprofen a few hours later, as I just couldn't take it any more. I don't recall seeing Ibu. on the "don't take" list for the seed treatment. Did I miss it, or am I ok.?.? Either way, the seeds have kept almost EVERYTHING CH related at bay so far, so if I screwed up this dose by taking other meds, then oh well... I'll do it again in 5 days and pray my previous dose carries me through.

Take care, all...
Adam

Thanks Bob W... I double checked that after originally posting. Just wanted to add another quick update... I now know what was meant by the beast fighting back against this treatment... Got hit with about a kip 5 just a little bit ago. Stunned again by how well an energy drink took care of it. I'm gonna have to keep those on hand from now on.....Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go
Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 12^th, 2007, 8:03pm

Not to worry about the Ibuprofen.

Good luck on the seeds.

Bobw

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Sep 20^th, 2007, 7:03am

I dosed again on monday. Upped the ante a bit and went with 25 seeds. I was still getting a few shadows here and there, so wanted to see if I could knock it out.
I waited 'til now to post, so I could report any activity after dosing. So here it is: ........
That's it! Nothing! No CH!! No shadows!! I am just happy as shit to be posting "nothing". ;;D ;;D ;;D I must be doing something right!
I'm probably NOT going to dose again unless I feel some CH activity comin'. If I don't have any problems in a few months, I guess a maintenance dose would be appropriate. But 'til then... ;;D
Thanx to my CH family, and all you "busters" who have given me such great support and advice. I just can't say thanx enough!
I also want to send >>>VIBES<<< out to a CH buddy who is trying the seeds, and wrestling with the beast trying to get him under control. [smiley=hug.gif] Hang in there "K", you can do it!! Come join me in being pain free!!

Thanks everybody! I'll post any developments as they happen... Hooray for me!! ;;D

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Redd on Sep 20^th, 2007, 8:13am

Sounds like you are getting your life back Bro! Doesn't it feel great? I've been of the routine of taking doses on a regular basis, but then I've been breaking a 22+ year entrenched cycle.

Almost 6 months now with no hit higher than a K4, and shadows breaking through during weather changes. (always was my nemisis)

Keep us posted...Sounds like another sucess story.

;;D

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by birdman on Sep 20^th, 2007, 8:28am

I am glad to hear of your positive results. I find it amazing that this works but I am another proven success story. Keep everyone updated on your progress.
Tim

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by nani on Sep 21^st, 2007, 12:39am

http://bestsmileys.com/happy/7.gif http://bestsmileys.com/happy/7.gif

One for Adam and one for Tim. YAY!!!!

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by billyjoe on Sep 21^st, 2007, 12:02pm

on 09/20/07 at 08:28:36, birdman wrote:

I am glad to hear of your positive results. I find it amazing that this works but I am another proven success story. Keep everyone updated on your progress.
Tim

Tim,

Perhaps I missed your recent post, but last I heard you did not have much success with the seeds. Are they working for you now? What was the secret? Also, how goes the shroom farming?

Bill

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by birdman on Sep 21^st, 2007, 12:29pm

BillyJoe, check your IM's

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by assaultme on Sep 22^nd, 2007, 9:24pm

Thanks for posting this and the link you sent me Adam !!!

Just one more tool for my war chest.
Cheers, Dave

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Sep 23^rd, 2007, 12:43am

Glad I could help, Dave!
I just hope you have as good, or better results!

Best of luck to ya!
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Sandy_C on Sep 23^rd, 2007, 3:46pm

Adam, I am so happy to hear that you are having success with the seeds. I'm an absolute believer in them as they work so well for me.

Keep alert, watch your symptoms, and dose again when you feel you need to - minding, of course, the obligatory 5 day wait between doses.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Sandy

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Beastfodder on Sep 24^th, 2007, 8:42am

Adam

Glad it sounds like it's all sorted. You covered all the fundamentals - get it early, repeat the doses as necessary and detox properly.

Never managed to completely miss a cycle yet but am working pretty hard on it. Yet to try the seeds but shall be getting an order in, off the back of the good reports since my other alternative treatments are probably past their shelf life now and avoiding the grow-bag scenario sounds too good to resist.

All the best

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JenniferD on Sep 24^th, 2007, 5:38pm

Adam, I wanted to reply earlier but haven't had the chance.

I am SO FREAKIN HAPPY FOR YOU.

I've had nearly identical results with the seeds, a couple of weird side-effects like extreme stiffness initially after taking it and a bizarre heightened sense of smell. But practically nothing, nada, zilch by way of hits. I mean, Ive been fightin this bastard for 22 years and FINALLY something that WORKS. I do have the occasional low level hits, but the o2 kicks its ass, and the shadows are killed with excedrin migraine (lil trick I learned on a place called ch.com)

You stay excited and happy and hopeful!!!! Doesn't it feel f'in GREAT to feel like you WON??!!!!

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Sep 24^th, 2007, 8:02pm

Wow! Thanks for all your support and well wishes!! I feel so loved! ;)

It's been a week since I dosed last, and Still CH free! I'm probably going to wait for another 3 weeks before taking another maintenance dose... That is, unless the beast shows up. If he does, I'll dose sooner. Until then, I'm just gonna wait and see.
I'm so afraid to declare this cycle "busted". I'm sure as soon as I do, I'll get hit. So, for now, I'm just going to say the treatment is still going well, and I'm still hopeful. ;;D
I WILL continue to keep you all posted!

Thanks again everyone, and stay pain free!

Adam ;;D ;;D

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 5^th, 2007, 11:50pm

Well, I made it about 2 1/2 weeks before the shadows started.
Yesterday I had a couple of shadows, and wasted no time in taking another 25 seed dose last night. No "rebounds" today either, thank God.
It seems the last 2 doses I took gave me a "regular" headache the next day, though. This happen to anybody else, or could it be coincidence? I am quite prone to headaches in general, so it IS possible it just sorta "happened". I dunno... Your thoughts??

PFDAN,
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by nani on Oct 6^th, 2007, 12:43am

Things seem to be going quite well for you, Adam. :D

I don't get a lot of "regular" headaches, but I do notice that whatever hurts me normally, ie: my back or hips (I'm old, LOL) hurt a little worse the day after I dose. I have no idea whether it's the same kinda thing, but I thought I'd mention it. ;)

continued pf wishes to you...hugs, nani

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by MikeE on Oct 7^th, 2007, 11:06pm

Glad to here it is working for you too. Seeds gave me my life back. I have been PF all summer. I did a dose every week for a several weeks. I dont know if that helped or if I just wanted to kick the beast while he was down. He sure didnt let me up when he had me on the mat. I never had any HA the next day or even shadows only a clear head. PFDAN Mike

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by MJ on Oct 8^th, 2007, 12:40am

Good news to hear of all the successes in knocking down such incredible pain with such an easy drug.

Theres allways a light at the end of the tunnel, even nicer when you get out of the tunnel.

MikeE what was your dosage quantity? Just curious.

Ski2
The next day mild headache happens to me on occasion as well. I think it may be relevant to the age and size of the dose and possibly to having eaten shortly before dosing.
More common for me is a very slight hangover/ lethargic effect next day.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by MikeE on Oct 14^th, 2007, 6:37pm

MJ
My dose was 20 most of the time. Sometimes more but I don't think more was helpful. I also discovered when trying to grow these seeds that many of them were dead inside. I suspect that the dried up dead seeds don't have much punch. This may explain some of the different results with doses and batches of seeds. I give those at clusterbusters my thanks and suggest anyone wanting to try this read and follow their work. It works!!! Mike

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Miz_D on Oct 14^th, 2007, 11:45pm

Ski2k,

I am SO happy for you and am excitedly watching this thread to see your progress. I am planning on trying the seeds also although I am chronic and don't really know if it will help me because of that.

Anyhow, I truly hope your PF time continues and that this works wonderfully for you!

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by midwestbeth on Oct 15^th, 2007, 4:54pm

Adam,

Glad to hear the seeds are working for ya!!

Beth

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 15^th, 2007, 5:10pm

Thanks for all the support and well wishes!!!

I made it 10 days this time. Yesterday I had a couple of really light shadows, so took another dose last night. Seem to be fine today, so I'm planning on sticking with the "wait and see" program.
Best of luck to all of you who are trying this for the first time! Keep us posted, will ya??

Take care, all
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 21^st, 2007, 4:21am

Well, with the weather changin' and the shadows that change has brought with it, I decided to do another dose 5 days after my last, rather than wait.
Just slammed them down and I guess I'll see if that helps get rid of the shadows I've been getting. Since they've been so much more frequent, I upped my dose to 35 seeds (don't think I'll go any higher than that). Hopefully this will give me the "boost" I need to fight off the beastly shadows.
Also a little nervous about the possibility of "tripping" with a higher dose, though I realize if I do at all, it'll be mild. I (believe it or not) have never been into using recreational drugs of any sort, at all. Never even did the "curious teen" thing of trying this and that. Just never appealed to me..... And I was afraid my parents would kick my ass! ;)
I'll keep you all posted!

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by jackieg on Oct 24^th, 2007, 6:43pm

Hey Adam,

It sounds like the seeds are definitely helping you. I have been trying to break a cycle for 3 weeks. I took 3 doses of mushrooms and then two doses (25) seeds and I a m still not out of the woods. I think I am going to try taking 5 in the morning and 5 at night. I took my last big dose Sunday night and I had an absolutely dreadful day yesterday. It was in the top 10 worst ever for me. I took just 8 more seeds last night and slept 8 straight hours. I had a very mild one this morning that I aborted with O2 and coffee. The rest of the day has been good, especially since I took the day off from work. (I teach prek so the farther away I stay the better sometimes.) I was going to wait until Friday and do a big dose, but since the three mushroom treatments and 2 seed treatments have not worked, I think I may respond to the little doses. If it does not work, then I will wait 5 days and really zap them. Keep us posted on your progress.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 25^th, 2007, 8:02pm

I hope you find some relief too, Jackieg. You keep us posted too, ok?!?!

I seem to be getting one shadow each night between 9:00 and 10:00. The recent doses I've taken don't seem to be having an effect on that. I guess if that's ALL I'm getting as far as CH, than I'm blessed. Even though it's been nightly, it hasn't been above a kip 3. I can DEFINATELY live with that!! Even some OTC Ibuprofen helps when it gets annoying enough for me to do something about it. Isn't that awesome?!?! ;;D ;;D ;;D
Thank you God for putting something on this planet that helps me!!! Please send some relief to the rest of my CH family. ;)

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by jackieg on Oct 25^th, 2007, 9:06pm

Okay, so Tuesday was death day. I took 8 seeds that night and slept well for 8 hours. Yesterday I felt pretty good, a few shadows but nothing serious. I dosed with 6 seeds before bed last night and slept again. I did wake a few times feeling as if I needed to make my usual runs to O2, but fell right back to sleep before even getting up. Today was pretty good. A little shadowing and an all over mild headache that was helped along with coffee, water, and food. I have not had a hit since that horrible 4 + hour mess on Tuesday.
I can feel the presence of the CH there and my head is burning a little sort of like a rebound headache, but nothing is breaking through. I received some fresh seeds today and plan on taking 5 or 6 more tonight and then again in the morning. I will continue to taper off. I have to think that perhaps a little bit at a time may be good for me since the big doses of seeds and shrooms are ineffective. All I can say is that I feel so much better than last cycle when I was on bottles of Neurontin and verapamil, no to mention Topamax. I hope this works because I cannot get through the holidays feeling like this as I did 2 years ago.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 25^th, 2007, 10:13pm

Awesome news, Jackieg!!!
I am soooo glad to hear you found a method that's working for you!
I know the feeling! Trying to get through the holidays with the CH beast on your back can totally ruin them when you get hit at all the wrong times. Making 3 kids under 10 years old wait on Christmas morning cuz daddy has another headache is nearly impossible!!

Hoping your success continues,
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by jackieg on Oct 26^th, 2007, 10:53am

Adam,

I slept through again from 12:00 am until 6:00 am, only waking to go to the bathroom (thanks to all of the water) Before bed and this morning I had a very mild H and it was aborted in a few minutes with O2. I took 5 seeds before bed and am taking 5 more this morning. I am definitely getting relief but am wondering what usually happens next to most people trying this approach. Will they eventually stop, get worse, get stuck? I am a little nervous. Also, I am going to NYC to Neuro on Monday to check in and get updated O2 letter for insurance. Should I mention seeds? She may know because I was in a study and my records had to be released. I am definitely not taking any drugs she has to offer. I have already tried them all but she still prescribes them.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by billyjoe on Oct 26^th, 2007, 2:01pm

Excellent News! Please keep us updated on the daily dosage scheme. I suggest you tell your neuro. I did and he was very receptive to it. I would come prepared with this printout as well as info on the seeds:

http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2006/2006_Sewell_22779_1.pdf

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 26^th, 2007, 7:21pm

Wish I could offer you a little more advice, Jackieg, as to what to expect now.... But this is my first time taking the seeds too.
It's my understanding, that normal dosing is often required during your cycle, though some people have been able to knock the beast right out and been able to stop the seeds. I asked the same question and was told to pay attention to your symptoms, and go from there.
For me, the first couple of doses seemed to knock the CH right out, so that's when I was told to keep an eye on things, and dose at the first sign of their return.
Since it sounds like what you're doing is working for you, I'd just keep doing that until you are certain the cycle is over, but that's just my opinion.

Hope this helps!
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by jackieg on Oct 27^th, 2007, 9:39am

Well, I wish I had better news to report. I felt sooooo
good yesterday all day! I took 5 seeds before bed, as opposed to the 6 the 3 nights before and BAM SMACK! I woke every 2 hours needing O2 badly. This went on from 12:00 am until 8:30 am...4 bad hits. Now I am not sure what to do. Could 1 less seed make that much of a difference? I didn't really think so but I guess it is possible. Do I up back to 6 or 7 or take a mega dose tonight? Should I wait 5 days? This is very difficult to figure out. I know the seeds have a positive effect since I never have a pain free day in a cycle, let alone 3 in a row including restful nights.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 27^th, 2007, 10:15am

I'm sooo sorry you got hit so bad, Jackie! :-/ :'(

All I can suggest is going back to the 6 or 7 seeds, if that's what's working for you. If it seems to be working, and you're not experiencing any side effects from it, I say stick with it! At least until you're sure your cycle has ended.
I really wish there was more I could do to help. I guess we all feel that way when we hear about somebody suffering. I hope you find relief soon!

Best wishes,
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by slacker032 on Oct 29^th, 2007, 5:07am

Do you guys find that there is a difference in effectiveness between dosing at night and dosing during the day? I vaguely recall someone mentioning that dosing during the day was recommended.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by MJ on Oct 30^th, 2007, 12:04am

on 10/29/07 at 05:07:05, slacker032 wrote:

Do you guys find that there is a difference in effectiveness between dosing at night and dosing during the day? I vaguely recall someone mentioning that dosing during the day was recommended.

I dont think it matters when you dose with the seeds.

Its probably a good idea to dose initially during waking hours to see how the seeds may affect you.

If you dose at night with the low doses we take for CH many will find they get a good and full nights sleep.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by MJ on Oct 30^th, 2007, 12:51am

on 10/27/07 at 09:39:11, jackieg wrote:

I took 5 seeds before bed, as opposed to the 6 the 3 nights before and BAM SMACK! I woke every 2 hours needing O2 badly. This went on from 12:00 am until 8:30 am...4 bad hits. Now I am not sure what to do. Could 1 less seed make that much of a difference? I didn't really think so but I guess it is possible. Do I up back to 6 or 7 or take a mega dose tonight? Should I wait 5 days? This is very difficult to figure out. I know the seeds have a positive effect since I never have a pain free day in a cycle, let alone 3 in a row including restful nights.

Jackie Hi.
the idea with the multiple low dose is to find that balance point where it works for you until the cycle backs off. Be aware that strange dreams can happen over time and I would suspect a period no longer than a week or so should be sufficient.

You may need a few days break to restart the seed treatment with a higher initial dose, or like you say try and go back to one more seed and if that works then your good.

Generally in my opinion increasing the dosage actually has an adverse effect. Wether you dose on a 5 day schedule or a daily low dose regimen.

LSA seems to work counter to what we all understand about medications of most kinds, (ie: morphine you increase a dosage untill it works) with LSA I believe you should actually decrease the dosage for more effective relief once an initial dose is taken to balance out the suspected excess serotonin and seal up the various receptors involved. Like mixing up a flower paste to proper consistency you add just a little more flour, too much and you need more water or have to start again.

Not sure if that makes sense. Better minds then mine can input on this. LeeS maybe.

This does not apply to simple maintenance dosing but only when trying to break a cycle.

I think many failed buster treatments may be due to this.

PS you can use 2-4 crushed RCseeds under the tonque as an abortive when a CH breaks through during the busting process. Works for me.

edit to add; Glad your hanging in there Ski2.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by billyjoe on Oct 30^th, 2007, 8:41am

I am currently doing this with the HBW seeds and will let you know how it goes. Not sure of the correct dosage but I'm doing 1 seed in the morning and 1 at night. Day 3 and yesterday was a good day!

I do find this approach counter intuitive. MJ’s explanation sounds quite reasonable, but I’m having a hard time correlating this approach with shrooms or LSD. I was under the assumption that these other treatments worked better due to a larger amount of Indole Alkaloid. Perhaps this approach also applies to shrooms as well, hence the maintenance dosage. So I guess my question is : “Why does shrooms work better than seeds?”

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by tommyD on Oct 30^th, 2007, 5:22pm

Quote:

LSA seems to work counter to what we all understand about medications of most kinds, (ie: morphine you increase a dosage untill it works) with LSA I believe you should actually decrease the dosage for more effective relief once an initial dose is taken to balance out the suspected excess serotonin and seal up the various receptors involved. Like mixing up a flower paste to proper consistency you add just a little more flour, too much and you need more water or have to start again.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. Let me start from the beginning.

There is a mehtod that uses very small doses of indole hallucinogen - originally called SPUT, for Small Piece Under Tongue. It involves doing just that with a piece of psilocybin mushroom. This is used by some as an abortive at the first sign of a hit. The dose is enough to abort the hit, but not enough to produce significant psychoactive effects. The dose is also small enough that it is not thought to trigger resistance (shut the door) and can be repeated without waiting. The psilocybin is absorbed more quickly through the mouth than through the stomach. Some have very good results with this, and the idea is also being used with RC seeds.

So from that developed an idea that perhaps the SPUT or similar very-small-dose methods could be used deliberately on a schedule as a preventive or cycle buster, say once a day for a week or two, thereby avoiding any psychedelic experience. Some have made this work, but from the reports I've read, it hasn't seemed all that successful. For those it does work for, it's a good way to go.

I tried to do this with psilocybin to bust a cycle, holding small sips of shroom tea in my mouth for as long as possible It worked okay as an abortive when necessary, and I also took a daily dose even when I didn't get hit. It didn't work all that well by itself - I seemed to still need a larger dose (thoughstill small) to bust the cycle.

I doubt that the seed doses most folks are using are too large. In my opinion it is more likely they are too small. The problem is, seeds can be quite variable in the amounts of LSA they contain, even fresh off the vine, and they seem to lose potency quite quickly.

My impression is, for cycle busting anyway, the amount of psilocybin or LSA needed is about as much as will cause very mild psychoactive effects, equivalent to one good beer or two weak American beers. Less than that can put the beast back a bit, but not kick him out. More than that, the usual "recreational" dose, works okay until you get into heavy trip doses. Such shake-hands-with-God doses seem to be unreliable as far as clusterbusting purposes goes. Me, I don't like even a mild recreational psilocybin trip - I find it annoying. Just enough to make me giggle at bad sitcoms is just enough.

LSA, for most folks, won't even cause a psychedelic trip, even at large doses. It tends to be more of a soporific. Some people, though, can trip just as heavily on it as on LSD, so the recommendation is to start with very conservative doses LSA, then work up to an effective dose.

A way to cover more receptors might be to use more than one indole hallucinogen, either consecutively or at the same time - shrooms one weekend, seeds the next, or a little bit of seeds mixed with a little bit of shroom. Some folks have had good luck with this for stubborn cycles.

Whew. Bored yet?

-tommyD

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by slacker032 on Oct 30^th, 2007, 7:54pm

on 10/30/07 at 17:22:03, tommyD wrote:

Whew. Bored yet?

Not at all. I'm always looking to tweak my routine so I love hearing all this stuff.

I've been having pretty good success with 50-60 seeds in both maintenance and busting doses. In a midst of a pretty bad cycle right now so I thinking about upping the dose to 65-70.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Oct 30^th, 2007, 8:31pm

Thanks for all the great info, Tommy!

I hanen't dosed for several days now, and I'm still pain free. It seems the 25-35 RC seed dose, taken when symptoms occur during this cycle, is working for me. I'm still planning on taking a maintenance dose at the 4 week point, if I'm still PF at that point. My cycle usually lasts 6-9 months, so I still have a while to go.
I'm also glad to hear about your success, Slacker032!! Nice to know you've got the beast handled, isn't it?

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Kevin_M on Oct 30^th, 2007, 9:13pm

on 10/30/07 at 17:22:03, tommyD wrote:

very-small-dose methods could be used deliberately on a schedule as a preventive or cycle buster, say once a day for a week or two, thereby avoiding any psychedelic experience. Some have made this work, but from the reports I've read, it hasn't seemed all that successful. For those it does work for, it's a good way to go.

I tried that with the HBW seeds, a three-seed dose had an effective extent of six hours for me, and kept it up for a month but it just kept going that same way, didn't put it down but I'm chronic. Any stopping, and when I did, CH fully emerged again. It'll be different next chance that was an experiment but they worked.

Quote:

I seemed to still need a larger dose (thoughstill small) to bust the cycle.

Agrees with me. An initial larger dose of RC and HBW got me five days. I wanted to test them both and went with the HBW for the daily small dose. Experiment.

Quote:

I doubt that the seed doses most folks are using are too large.

...as much as will cause very mild psychoactive effects, equivalent to one good beer or two weak American beers. Less than that can put the beast back a bit, but not kick him out.

LSA, for most folks, won't even cause a psychedelic trip, even at large doses. It tends to be more of a soporific.

True for me out to 60 with RC's.

Quote:

the recommendation is to start with very conservative doses LSA, then work up to an effective dose.

YES. Never can tell in advance, and in many different ways, how an individual's system will react or unintendedly construe a particular feeling.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 3^rd, 2007, 7:50pm

Took another 35 seed dose today. Minor, random and few shadows since my last dose. ;;D Seems about every 2 weeks, I'm needing to dose (with a couple of exceptions). I think I might just go ahead and try to keep the 2 week schedule going. I'd hate to wait too long and let the beast get a good grip on me! Planning on dosing earlier if things get rough before 2 weeks, but otherwise, I'll try to keep things on this schedule.

Anybody else new to this treatment having any success with it? I'd like to hear about your experiences!

PF wishes,
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by billyjoe on Nov 3^rd, 2007, 9:05pm

Hi Adam,

Kind of similar results from me but not as much relief. I need to redose about every 5-7 days. I also still need 240mg of Verapamil and a variety of supplements. The seeds are the main reason I am not at a much higher level of Verapamil!

I was dosing 30 to 70 seeds, with about 50 giving the most results. I am now doing the HBW seeds. 5 seeds is about the same as 30 RC seeds. Tried the daily dosing for a week without any positive results.

Next up in the experimental ladder, is to try to attain the benefits of shrooms with HBW seeds. Not sure if this is possible, but I plan to up my dosage until I start to feel some more intense effects and results.

BTW, not sure is my cycle is getting worse or if the seeds are working less, but I'm getting more shadows and low level hits. Been on this treatment for about 3 months.

Hopefully by sharing our experiences we can figure this thing out.

Bill

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by nani on Nov 3^rd, 2007, 10:17pm

on 11/03/07 at 19:50:23, ski2k wrote:

I'd like to hear about your experiences!

Well, sheesh, Adam....if you're going to twist my arm about it...I'll share. ;)

It's been a while since I've updated here, so in a nutshell:

I have had a great deal of success using both RC seeds and mushrooms. I occasionally dose on one or the other, but my most common treatment involves about 30 RC seeds and a small piece of mushroom.

This combo often gives me weeks of pain free time, some shadowing and a rare occasional breakthrough hit. The nature of the attacks have changed and almost never last more than 10 minutes, untreated.
Treated with O2 or an energy drink, I get relief in two to five minutes.

Once in a while, a cycle will kick in, and a slightly larger busting dose or two (generally about 7 days apart) will knock it back.

On average, I maintenance dose about once every 6 to 8 weeks.

8)

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 4^th, 2007, 10:40pm

on 11/03/07 at 22:17:44, nani wrote:

The nature of the attacks have changed and almost never last more than 10 minutes, untreated.
Treated with O2 or an energy drink, I get relief in two to five minutes.

8)

Wow Nani!! Sounds like you've pretty much got the beast on the run! So glad to hear it's working so well!

Bill... Sounds like a combo of seeds and shrooms might just be the answer you're looking for! Seems to be working for Nani!

I too get the occasional shadow, but it's usually so light, just some ibuprofen will take it out, sometimes an energy drink is needed too.

Thanks for sharing !!! ;;D
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 17^th, 2007, 7:59am

Well... Two weeks since my last dose, and two weeks pain free! Not even shadows! I couldn't be happier!
Took another 35 seed dose last night, and will probably continue to do so on an every-other week basis until my cycle would normally be gone. That means another 6-7 months of dosing every two weeks, but it's been soooo worth it!!!!
Since this strategy has been working so well for me, I'm afraid to wait any longer between doses. May just wait until I'm well out of cycle to switch to monthly maintenance doses.
If there's any changes, I'll keep you all updated!

Hooray for me!! It's working!! ;)
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 17^th, 2007, 11:26am

Hi folks, I've been around here a while but rarely post.

I'm starting the RC treatment for the first time to treat a cycle. I had taken small "maintenance" doses occasionally in the past, but I suppose my doses weren't often or high enough to stave off this cycle.

Luckily, I tend to get mild "warning" attacks (~ Kip6) at the start of my cycle, so I took 35 seeds the night after getting my first headache. It's been two days, and so far, so good. My head is foggy and I'm getting mild headaches, but they're treatable with Ibuprofen. The weird thing is I'm getting the runny nose and tearing that normally comes with the attack, but not the severe pain. Anyone else experience that?

I've gotten good ideas of what folks are doing as far as dose size and schedule, but I wanted to find out if everyone's been following the preparation tips in the clusterbusters FAQ as far as seed preparation and fasting beforehand.

I ground mine with a coffee grinder and soaked them in a shot of Crown for an hour. I drank the concoction about two hours after a normal meal (not a light or fat free meal as was suggested by the FAQ). I didn't feel any nausea or other adverse effects, other than some strange closed-eye color patterns.

If anyone would like to share their method of prep it would help me and possibly other folks considering starting this treatment.

Thanks!
Joe

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by nani on Nov 17^th, 2007, 11:32am

Hi Joe. It's recently been found that optimum extraction happens when you soak the seeds for one hour in water. This info comes directly from chemists who've tested all the methods.

Adam, I'm happy to hear that things are still going well.
Seeds, however, are not without any risks. I know it's scary, but if I were you, I'd consider smaller doses every 2 weeks, or waiting a month if no activity returns.

continued pf wishes to both of you, nani

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 17^th, 2007, 12:12pm

Well, Nani...
You haven't given me bad advice yet, so I think I'll try and drop the dose down to 20 next time, and see where I can go from there.
When I first got up to 35, I was still shadowing pretty regularly, but since my last couple of doses, things have been great. Since I'm pretty much completely pain free now, I guess it wouldn't hurt to experiment a bit, and try to drop the dose. Thanks again for all the advice and support you've given me!!

Joe...
I soak my seeds in water for an hour or two, then chug it down! I usually take my seeds late at night, and don't normally have much in my stomach beforehand. I have, however, done a dose or two after eating, and have also not experienced any ill effects from it. I'm not sure if food decreases the effectiveness or not, but trying not to eat beforehand just seems to make more sense. Seems like it's get into your system faster that way.
Hope it goes as well for you as it has for me!! Keep us posted!!

Best wishes,
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by billyjoe on Nov 17^th, 2007, 5:50pm

Good to hear the seeds are working so well for you Adam. Did you say you have another 6-7 months to go? How long do your cycles normally last? I thought I was one of the few in a 8 month and counting cycle.

I wish I could do the shrooms and seed combo but the shrooms are not an option for me. I was able to get a good buzz on 10 HBW seeds, hoping to emulate the benefits of shrooms, but so far no luck. For a couple of days, my shadows were moving all over the place, but it settled back in to pretty constant low level shadows. I need to redose this weekend. Not sure what dosage I'll take.

I'm starting to wonder if Verapamil is interfering with the benefits, since it seems you and others with more success are preventative free.

Bill

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 18^th, 2007, 7:20am

Hey, Bill.

Yeah, I get pretty long cycles, about 6-9 months long. Seems the last couple of cycles have gone the full 9 months, so I never know quite what to expect. From the start of one cycle to the start of the next, I go about 18 months, so I'm never quite a full year pain free (Usually only about 10 months from the end of the last to the beginning of the next).
I started the seed treatment at the first signs of this cycle starting, so I have a ways to go yet. If it continues to go the way it has been, it's going to be great!
Keep in mind when using the HBW seeds, that they're about 5 times as strong as the RC seeds I've been using. So the 35 RC seeds I've used my last few doses would be about 7 HBW seeds. (I'm sure you read up on that, just thought I'd throw in a reminder.)
It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to try going without the verap. (Of course, check with your doctor first.) Like the clusterbusters site recommends, it's good to do in order to give the seed treatment the best chance of working.

Let us know how it turns out for ya!
Adam

Edited to add: Just wanting to clarify a couple of things. I went back and read the first post in this thread, and realized I posted my cycle length wrong. I USED to get cycles 4-6 months long (6 being pretty rare), and USED to get them every year during the winter months. I was like that for about 13 or 14 years. I "skipped" a winter cycle, and thought they had gone away. That's when my cycle changed. Got hit the following summer, and it's been like that ever since (about 4 or 5 years now). When my cycle changed, I was worried, and went to see a new doc about it (had always been told it's just the weather and my sinuses). The new doc was the one that finally diagnosed me as having CH. Hope this helps clarify a few things!

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by thomas on Nov 20^th, 2007, 9:00am

I did 15 last night, I don't know if I could ever do 30!! :o

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 20^th, 2007, 10:56am

Thomas, did you have an intense reaction to the 15 seeds? I took 35 seeds the other night and, although it was a strange experience, wasn't bad by any means. I didn't sleep well but felt relaxed at least. My seeds are about 5-6 months old so perhaps they've lost some of their potency.

I'm gonna take the same dose tonight. Woke up with a Kip5 at 4AM today, but it went away in less than 5 min. all by itself. Other than that, I've had no pain other than a slight "twinge" here or there for the last 5 days. This is so unlike any other cycle I've had; I've got to think it's the seeds that are making the difference.

Best of luck to all,
Joe

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by thomas on Nov 20^th, 2007, 11:03am

Yes, very intense reaction to 15 seeds. Been getting slammed really hard this morning. Just now coming down.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 20^th, 2007, 8:25pm

Wow, Thomas. I've done 35 seeds a few times now, and have not had any reaction to them. I wonder now if the ones I have may have been the "bottom of the barrel". Maybe it's time to get fresh ones, and drop my dose down.

Joe... Make sure you wait the 5 days between doses for best results!! Are you finding any relief yet?

Thanks for comparing notes everyone!
Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by Redd on Nov 21^st, 2007, 8:20am

Just remember Thomas, that post dose hits like that are not uncommon. In fact it's a positive sign that you've shaken the beast up. As we know too well, CH seems almost alive and thinking on it's own, and this is like the beast fighting back. Keep track of what happens over the next few days and dose again at the 5 day mark. Keep the fucker guessing.

I got hit last week a few times and a single dose this past weekend recaged the bastage once again, but I'm going back to a weekly schedule until I'm sure it's safe to cut back once again.

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 21^st, 2007, 9:46am

I dosed again last night (exactly 5 days between doses) and got hit at 4AM and 7AM. I'm a bit disappointed, but still optimistic that the seeds are helping. Since I typically go 12-18 months between cycles, I don't keep an O2 supply when in remission. So I gotta call my neuro & get an office visit to get a new O2 prescription. What a pain in the ass.....oh well such is life.
>:(

Best of luck to all,
Joe

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by ski2k on Nov 21^st, 2007, 1:47pm

Just keep plunking away at it Joe. Like Redd posted, it's not uncommon for the beast to fight back. I'd keep going with the 5 day dosing regimin for a little while longer, and see if things begin to change.

Hope it works for you soon!!

Adam

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 22^nd, 2007, 8:15am

Man, I just can't seem to avoid the 4AM & 7AM hits. I'm tempted to take melatonin since it's helped in the past, but I worry about the interaction with the RC seeds. The CB FAQ mentions melatonin as a possible interferer.

Has anyone combined these two? What were the results?

Thanks,
Joe

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by nani on Nov 24^th, 2007, 3:11am

Joe, ideally, it's best to avoid melatonin while using these entheogenic treatments. If you're really struggling, perhaps you could lay off the melatonin for at least 2 days before, and 2 days after your dose?
All the best with it, nani

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 24^th, 2007, 4:43am

Thanks nani; I think I will avoid it altogether. The energy drink thing does seem to help -- in fact not just 10 minutes ago I woke up, felt the foreboding sensation of the beast, chugged a Monster, and he's gone.

I guess that's all the sleep I'll be getting tonight! :)

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by plungerjoke on Nov 27^th, 2007, 2:09am

to whoever has said they sometimes get symptoms minus the actual pain:
me too!

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JoeS on Nov 27^th, 2007, 10:08am

Quote:

to whoever has said they sometimes get symptoms minus the actual pain:
me too!

That's wonderful -- I hope it continues that way for you.

I was experiencing that for a few days after taking the seeds. Unfortunately, the pain came back for me in a week, and I didn't get any (obvious) help from the seeds after the second dose.

I'm embarrassed to say I finally broke down and went back to triptans (Zomig) to get through the breakthrough hits, since I didn't have any oxygen available. But I did finally get in to see the neuro today to get an Rx for O₂, and will use that instead of the Zomig to abort the early morning attacks from here on. I plan to hit the seeds again after the requisite 5 day detox.

Good luck to all,
Joe

Title: Re: RCseeds: Here we go (updates)
Post by JDH on Nov 27^th, 2007, 12:04pm

on 11/27/07 at 02:09:52, plungerjoke wrote:

to whoever has said they sometimes get symptoms minus the actual pain:
me too!

That's also been me for about the last 2 weeks.
I get the symptoms but it hasn't broken thru.....yet.
I've been doing the clusterbuster maintenance doses for over 4 years now, first with 'shrooms and more recently with the RC seeds. I've had a few of these "phantom cycles" around this time of year where the same time everyday it feels like it's going to ramp up into something but never does. This will usually go on for a few weeks and then I don't notice it anymore.
By no means am I complaining but it is kinda weird.

Jim