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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Exercize?????
        
(Message started by: assaultme on Aug 28^th, 2007, 9:45pm)

Title: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Aug 28^th, 2007, 9:45pm

I have looked and can't find anything on the subject.
Here is my question: can exercize trigger an attack?
Let me be more specific.
30 minutes ago I was playing my drums. I felt fine. As soon as I was about 10 minutes into it and beginning to get the blood flowing, I got attacked. This time of night is not my normal time for an attack to start, so you might consider that. I was not over-exerting myself and nothing I have done today is out of the ordinary. So assuming I had no other trigger (that I can think of)
I ask you: Is it possible that extra-normal blood flow triggered an attack?
If so, I am worried I may not be able to go back to my health club with my son.
Before CH, we worked out regularly and I keep in reasonably good shape for my age.
Here is what I am sweating: If I run, the blood vessels carry more blood everywhere in my body. If I learn that I will trigger an attack this way, I am worried I will become out of shape...thus maybe adversely affecting my CH problem.
I realize that you couldn't "conclusively" say yea or nea, but some simple educated insights would be appreciated.
I ask: Should I just go there and run the track and see what happens?
I am willing to do so to be able to collect more conclusive info.
As a side note, I have quit taking Anadrox. Anadrox is a supplement that is proven to help build muscle because it opens up blood circulation to the muscles during a work-out and subsequent rebuild of the muscle cells.
I'm schooled enough to understand why I cannot take Anadrox anymore, but ignorant to how exercise might affect me.
Got any opinions on this?
Thank you in advance.
BTW, I just took my first Imitrex injection and in 10 minutes, I recovered and I am so excited that it has appeared to work for me.
Regards, Dave

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Ray on Aug 28^th, 2007, 10:09pm

Dave:

It would be more typical to have the CH when cooling down from the exercise. It doesn't mean that your body reacts differently.

Generally the "release from stress" is a trigger for many.

With regards,

Ray

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by sandie99 on Aug 29^th, 2007, 2:17am

Dave,

no two heads are the same... In my case, my regular exercize routines haven't had that much impact on the hits. I've been hit once during it and once my hit was aborted by exercise. Then again, I do mostly pilates, yoga and faaaast walking. ;)

Sanna

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Aug 29^th, 2007, 3:41am

My physical exercise consisting of single arm 10oz amber liquid lifts ;;D only affects me when I’m going into a bout of attacks.

But seriously I find that if I can keep both mind & body occupied but not exerted I’m much better off for it; if I put both into neutral there’s a tendency to start shadowing or get hit worse when I’m have a run with the demon.

Keep busy not stressed
Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by fightguy on Aug 29^th, 2007, 4:16am

Recently exercise has been my most worst and most predictable trigger. Generally speaking, I get them on the drive home from the gym, or shortly afterwards. They have been coming like clockwork after working out for the past 3 months

So yes, exertion can definitely be a trigger

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by MR_FLOOR on Aug 29^th, 2007, 4:32am

Dave,

Like Sanna said everybody is different.I am like Ray and Fightguy mine are more likely to come when I'm unwinding from exertion not during.

Dave

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by phil_h on Aug 29^th, 2007, 6:53am

I've had exercise trigger ha's , but not consistently........ everytime I think I've gotten the beast figured out , he changes......... I think the occasional exercise hit is the beast attempting to cage me in......Other times exercise is a great release and comfort ..... I'm always soothed by a long walk after a hit.... this seems reliable .... Anyway it seems different for everybody and then the beast is a moving opponent.... be prepared to changes as the constant..... phil h

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by barry_sword on Aug 29^th, 2007, 7:24am

Hi Dave. I mountain bike and this has been a hot and humid summer. I have had some pretty good shadows while biking but never got hit while riding. I have been hit right after a ride but I have my o2 in my car so I can stop it right away.

Angie and I have a plan if I get hit while riding (we ride in a mountain bike center with a lot of people) I will get as far off the trail as possible and ride it out while Angie keeps the curious away from me. She is simply going to tell them I am having one of my "headaches" and will be fine in a few minutes and not let on to them it is any big deal.

So I say for me exercise is good but who knows with the beast. He can visit when least expected. Sorry for the ramble.

Barry

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by michael on Aug 29^th, 2007, 8:06am

Be careful with the imitrex jabs. They do seem a miracle cure and if they work for you they will probably work every time.

However, for some people here (including me) regular use seem to cause an increase in attacks and headache intensity. I think the general concensus is to use them as a last resort. Glad they work for you though. They will take out a hit for me within 6 - 10 minutes evertime, no matter how long into an attack I am.

BTW excersize does not seem to be a trigger for me. However, I do remember years ago running a half marathon during a cycle (before I new what they were and therefore had no meds), and about 4 hours later having a real blinder.

PF wishes

Mike

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Bob_Johnson on Aug 29^th, 2007, 1:39pm

It must be nearly two-years ago that I posted a medical report about how elevated body heat (from working, exercise, etc.) triggered attacks for some folks. What followed was a small number of replies confirming this experience for a few people.

On the flip side, exercise has also been reported as used to reduce, even abort, an attack. I assume the increased oxygen levels were the helpful mechanism.

So the answer is: individual variation with only your personal experience as your guide.

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by thomas on Aug 29^th, 2007, 3:21pm

Before I was so fat, I used to run and that would clear my head for a couple of hours. Aerobic exercize was great for clearing shadows for me. But I'm too fat to run now. :-/

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Aug 29^th, 2007, 5:05pm

Man !!! Outstanding replies from everyone here. Gives me a firm base to determine how I will begin to resume exercise. I think I will skip the running and do the free weights first. Then slowly and scientifically get back to the running....some of that is just me being scared :)
Thanks for the "jab caution"
You know, that is so strange !!! I developed this theory about when I was addicted to opiates. The back pain that I initially used them for, and subsequently started abusing, left and the opiates began to give back pains by their very use. The body said: "I need this, if you stop...you gonna pay....and I DID" I will take that under strong advisement. I know that to be a sound scientific theory. I know....240 m.g. of Morphine Sulphate a day will make yer head go jibby, jibby, jibby and your body will become a nuclear test field. Or is that "NUKLUAR" George
[smiley=laugh.gif]
Oxygen coming tonight. Will see if it works. If it does, the jabs will be ONLY when necessary.

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Aug 29^th, 2007, 5:56pm

I know I am morphing the thread, but I just had a question I'd like input on.
As y'all may know, I am new to this subject....I know little.
I studied neurology as much as I could for the past few days and I want to see if my theory is plausible according to learned members here.
Heres how it goes:
When trying to explain the condition to my family I was having a hard time explaining the severity of the pain. Here is the common logic: It is absolutely impossible for head pain to become as violent as say having your arm ripped off in a farming accident. This is good logic to someone who doesn't understand the mechanics of it. When a body part is severed, several nerves in the affected area "go nuts" and the brain receives & processes this information as pain. Soon, the brain releases a myriad of messages. Pain suppressor, histamines, dopamine, and other forms of repair & protective signals. These functions are carried out by the body and the body begins to reduce pain and do it's functions of repair.
In a CH, the nerve signals that "go nuts" are sent to the brain "full throttle" and processed. The body attempts to do everything it normally does as I have outlined above. Problem is, there is some type of malfunction that occurs that makes the brain think the job is getting done. However, it is not !! The signals for pain reduction are just being sent out into space....unusable. Maybe the brain doesn't even know that the repair functions are not operating. It may even think that pain reducing chemicals are being sent, even though they are not. Eventually, for reasons unknown to me, the blood vessels shrink and you recover.
Does my theory sound correct, or am I all wrong on this?
If I understood this brain malfunction theory better, I would be able to give those who are concerned a greater understanding.
Regards, Dave

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by fightguy on Aug 30^th, 2007, 3:57am

on 08/29/07 at 17:05:40, assaultme wrote:

Unfortunately in the cluster that I'm currently in, pretty much any strenuous exercise including lifting weights, launches me into a full blown headache :(

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 30^th, 2007, 5:22am

on 08/29/07 at 17:56:47, assaultme wrote:

I simply refer to it as "roll around on the floor kind-of-pain" and people get the visual.

As fo the exercise - my biggest trigger is running when in cycle. I do it anyway and try to narrow how much I can run. I make sure I have O2 for after the run and sometimes go to it if I feel the least shadow. Mine generally hit after a run but I get sympathetic nerve tinglies in my face where the sweat almost feels itchy when i'm running and then I know will be hit in about 15-30 minutes after a run.

As Bob Johnson mentioned - many of us have a heat issue - the hypothalamus regulates your thermoregulatory system so it would go to figure that we may have problems along this line. Once the cycle's done I have no problem but in cycle i'll get hit in the summer heat after cutting the lawn because of heat issues.

Scott

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by soulroach on Aug 30^th, 2007, 7:58am

Just to chime in... Exercise does not always trigger a HA for me, but then again, sometimes it does? When it does, if I hit it with 02 right away it will usually go away.

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by DennisM1045 on Aug 30^th, 2007, 1:30pm

on 08/30/07 at 07:58:21, soulroach wrote:

Just to chime in... Exercise does not always trigger a HA for me, but then again, sometimes it does? When it does, if I hit it with 02 right away it will usually go away.

Scott! That is an excellent observation about sympathetic nerve tingles and the sweat being feeling itchy. I never put the two together before [smiley=bow.gif]. I take heated yoga classes two times a week and often get hit within half an hour after the class ends when I’m in cycle (which I am now). It doesn’t always happen though.

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Aug 30^th, 2007, 5:05pm

Thanks Scott for the simplification about how to describe symptoms. I am likely doing my over-analysis thing again.
I have a good question I think. Does this CH thing change all the time? I mean to say, it seems to be under really good control and I am responding very well to all the drugs I am given. Gotten to the point where I am not scared about functioning. As you know, I was in a frenzy at first, but the treatment has put me back in my skin. I am worried however that it is possible for it to just go nuts and morph into something much worse. Can a guy just start losing control and the drugs stop working? Someone told me that since the shots worked, that is good...I am responding. Is it possible that I could become totally out of control?
If I do, at least I have the benefit of those here who have done it all. Don't want to panic again and run around like a head with his chicken cut off [smiley=laugh.gif]
Dave

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Aug 30^th, 2007, 8:17pm

on 08/30/07 at 17:05:07, assaultme wrote:

Gotten to the point where I am not scared about functioning.
Dave

Your on your way; get the mind set right & the rest will follow.

Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by DennisM1045 on Aug 30^th, 2007, 10:04pm

That's the kicker with this thing. The beast will morph. Sometimes not. You never know. Don't get too comfortable with any routine. Be prepared to change and adapt. You'll always find something that will work. It may not be the same thing as last cycle though. Sometimes the changes are subtle, sometimes radical. Just relax and enjoy your victories now. Don't get ahead of the fight. Live your life between the hits.

Wishing you PFDAN!

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Saffy on Aug 31^st, 2007, 4:39am

I also play drums and the noise can bring on and attack.

Also I sometimes get a visual disturbance before an attack and it wasn't until playing to a click track that I realised I get a hearing disturbance as well, I could not play accurately to the click track! :-[

I don't think it is the loudness exactly possibly the pitch of the higher drums for me, not sure.

Do you wear ear plugs?

P.S. As far as exercise goes I have found I need to fine tune it i.e. not too easy, must get slightly out of breath, not too hard, must not get gasping, must go for about 30 to 45 minutes fast walk, longer than that or if I am gasping for breath and I am too tired too go the next day.

I think perhaps just enough exertion for just long enough helps my body make melatonin or helps with whatever it is that causes my Clusters as if I manage to exercise like this on a daily basis I appear to get no headaches and as soon as I stop from tiredness, lack of time, driving rain, family problems etc, they are back with a vengeance and then it is as much as I can do to do my job, least of all crawl off for a walk! >:(

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by buhrly on Aug 31^st, 2007, 6:10pm

the mountain biking in the heat has got me scared to try again. got hit hard on the ride. been swimming in the river though which is cold. that has been great

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Aug 31^st, 2007, 7:14pm

on 08/31/07 at 04:39:11, Saffy wrote:

I also play drums and the noise can bring on and attack.

(

Kool, a fellow drummer. Have a friend in London who is this world-class jazz drummer....Mark Fletcher.
His left foot is faster than my 4 appendages put together.

Thanks for the input !!!
Gotta go work on 16th note grooves now. Have a long way to go to get them Neil Peart perfect, but I found something that helps clean it up a bit when necessary. Using the ride and hats for the 16th notes can mask a little looseness. I play open.....that is lefty but with the kit set up righty. Weird, but works well for me.

Oh yeah, ear plugs.....hmmm. They are likely a good idea more for my son than me [smiley=laugh.gif]
But, you ask a good question. They are really something every drummer should wear. I don't because I have a hard time hearing subtle ghost notes on the snare and such. Like a half-time shuffle or adding in a 16th note on an 8th note groove. But I know I need to get used to them before I do permanent damage.

I really like polyrhythmic stuff. Ya know, 2 different time signatures played simultaneously, but they are often very difficult for me to play satisfactorily.

What kinda kit you play?
Cheers, Dave

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by Saffy on Sep 2^nd, 2007, 10:16am

I still think you should use ear plugs...it may take a while to get used to them! ;) After all you may find you want to hear things in 10 years time and it might not be helping the head!

I have an old but lovely Premier snake bark maple kit, 6 drums inc snare, 5 cymbals inc hi hat+ bongo's, really loud cow bell with hammer etc. Unfortunately I came to drumming late in life and will never reach super star status!!! BUT I play well enough to beat the kit up, keep a VERY boring beat and enjoy it.

Many of my friends are drummers and play very well indeed so I know my place and tend to hand over the sticks. I enjoy most music from Beatles, The Who through to Metallica, Zeppelin, Elvis even, most Jazz, love Blues, not keen on Pop or Country. However I will listen to almost anything if it is played live with a teeny weeny bit of skill.

Now dooo tell me about your drums, you in a band....etc?

Saffy

P.S. I am from Wales G. B.

Title: Re: Exercize?????
Post by assaultme on Sep 2^nd, 2007, 4:53pm

Saffy:
Yeah, I need a slap on the back of the head sometimes. I will wear my ear plugs. Worse yet I avoid them at work, which also isn't kool. I'm gonna start today. I smoke too, so I'm just a truckload of bad habits :)

Absolutely !!!! I started late as well. Raised 3 boys, 30, 28 & 19 & worked 70+ hours a week so there wasn't much time to learn anything new.

I too recognize my current limitations, but attack the challenge with much enthusiasm. Daunting as percussion was to undertake, I have an attitude about it.
That is, even the worlds best percussionists are never done learning. True the learning curve gets a tight radius towards the end. Consider that even Neil Peart of Rush calls himself " A work in progress"
Since you will never get to the end of your education, you just go like hell :)

I did get lucky as I got a teacher who taught me how to read & write music. He gave me a foundation that I can now use to go much farther than I ever could have had I not learned how music is composed or should I say the actual "mechanics" of it.

My kit is awesome IMHO. It's a Tama Starclassic Maple 8 pc. kit. 22" bass, 8", 10", 12", 14", 16" f.t. and 16" ride tom. Assorted snares.

We have the same musical taste. BTW, the old Premier kits are very KOOL !!!

Snagged up a ton of overtime this week-end without a freight train runnin' through the middle of my head....yeah, I know...shameless plagiarist [smiley=laugh.gif]

Have a great holiday everyone !!!!
Cheers, Dave