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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> First Experience with RC Seeds
        
(Message started by: K-MAN on Aug 6^th, 2007, 11:47am)

Title: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 6^th, 2007, 11:47am

Thanks to all who have supplied information regarding the RC seeds. I tried them yesterday, so I thought I would post my experience for others to read. Overall it was positive, and I'm very happy to have yet another tool to battle the beast.

I got the RC seeds from iamshaman.com. I ordered them on Wednesday, and they arrived Saturday. From all the posts online here, people were using anywhere from 10 to 30 seeds per dose. I decided to split it down the middle and use 20. I didn't have a pepper grinder handy, so I used a hammer to crush them--not in a hammering motion, but I just used the flat part to roll over the seeds until theywere flattened and broken.

I soaked the seeds for 3 hours in regular tap water (too scared to try alcohol as a base). I used a tea infuser which my wife says is a "Paris-style" infuser to keep the seeds immersed without all the debris in the bottom of the cup. It's basically a cup-shaped mesh screen with a lip that rests on the top rim of the glass or cup, and it made this process very easy. Due to some people reporting possible stomach problems by ingesting the seed hulls, I thought I would play it safe and just drink the liquid only. Once the crushed seeds were immersed, you could see the extract slowly draining from them. After 3 hours the liquid was a slightly cloudy, light yellow-brown, and it smelled like uncooked potatoes.

I drank the liquid and waited to see what would happen. It also tasted like uncooked potatoes. After about 45 minutes I felt a bit "floaty", and colors appeared more vivid. I was completely coherent, cabable of conversation, and very relaxed. That was really the extent of the experience. Absolutely no feelings of paranoia or confusion, just a very light, easy feeling. My wife described my demeanor as relaxed and languid.

I just watched TV and eventually came to a nice, soft landing after about 6 hours. This is about the easiest thing ever. At about hour 4, I got some serious shadows that were a little bit painful. I drank a Coke and had a bite to eat, and they went away. I slept the entire night pain-free. This is a welcome change, since I have been getting hit twice a day and always at night two hours after sleep starts.

This morning I feel very relaxed and alert and upbeat. There is no grogginess. Overall I'm pleased with the results so far, and I'm hopeful this will be a good preventative measure. I've been episodic for 22 years, and shrooms have been my alternative treatment of choice for the past few years, but the RC seeds are a great addition to the arsenal. They are easy to get and to prepare, and they are a cheap, less risky alternative.

Thanks again to everyone for supplying the necessary information. My experience with the RC seeds is limited to this one experience, but I'll be glad to share anything else related to it. Hope this helps you. PFDAN!

K-MAN

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 6^th, 2007, 12:29pm

Good to hear you had a positive experience!

I'm on my second dose and have had positive results, but the jury is still out.

You mentioned you have been doing shrooms. What type of results have you seen from them?

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by medicjeff505 on Aug 6^th, 2007, 12:54pm

Hi there, first off good luck with the seeds. I have a quick question. I have been suffering from CH's for about 15 years now and was only accurately Dx'ed last week so I have been immersed in this site since then. For clarification...by RC seeds you mean rivea corymbosa correct? I am just looking into every possible alternative for myself at this point. Thanks alot...

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 6^th, 2007, 2:27pm

MedicJeff,

Yes, it's the Rivea Corymbosa seeds.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 6^th, 2007, 2:40pm

billyjoe,

The shrooms always work, but they are not the most convenient solution. They are also not always readily available. They are good as an abortive treatment for an existing attack, and they can prevent and help break entire cluster cycles. It's a powerful drug, and you can't take its effects lightly. Check out www.clusterbusters.com for all the details.

I was lucky enough to be able to participate in Dr. Andrew Sewell's (McLean Hospital, Harvard University)first study that was published last year. He found through his research that the mushrooms worked for an overwhelmingly high percentage of CH sufferers. I believe he's working on a similar study at McLean using RC seeds, but I am not part of that one.

I'm just glad there is progress being made. In the past three years this group has uncovered many new possible treatments, and it has made these painful episodic cluster cycles bearable.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 6^th, 2007, 4:28pm

Thanks, K-man for your personal report on the use of rc seeds to combat CH.

Your post on your feelings after dosing, how you felt the next day, are very informative, in that you are bolstering what Clusterbusters.com advises, that you do not have to take "trip" level doses in order to achieve some relief for CH.

I fully advocate researching the use of alternative medication in this fight we are all immersed in. I would never say that this is the route that everyone should take, because it is a difficult decision to make, and it doesn't work for everyone.

I made that choice, and, so far, that choice has proven itself to be the right one..

Sandy

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by MJ on Aug 7^th, 2007, 1:00am

K-MAN.

Best of luck I hope this does it for you. Sounds promising.

Having never tried the psylocibin treatment.
It would be interesting to hear your comparison of the medicinal value of seeds vs shrooms after a few days.

Tip - a clean pair of pliers works fine to mash the seeds.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by rolo65 on Aug 7^th, 2007, 1:52am

Get a good quality pepper grinder; it gives the best dose IMHO.

Rolo..

Edit to add: I wish the dam things worked for me, 30 seeds twice a week for 3 weeks and seemed to make the beast worse (probably same?). I'm just a chronic cluster-f-head!

Edit again because the dose was wrong at 40.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 7^th, 2007, 10:08am

Just a quick update this morning: so far, so good. Got another night's sleep with no attacks. My wife said once I fell asleep I was out cold, didn't move and didn't snore. She joked that she had to hold a mirror under my nose to see if I could fog it. Had a few shadows last night before bed around 9pm. Thought one might break through, but no.

Having some more light shadows this morning, but I don't think anything will come of it. Now that I've slept I feel almost lifelike. Who would think anyone could get excited about actually sleeping for two consecutive nights? We must seem like a strange bunch!

I'm taking rolo65's advice and going to buy a pepper grinder today. That seems like the easiest way to prep. I am going to do a second dose in a few days and see if I can break this cluster. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and good suggestions. I will keep you updated.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 7^th, 2007, 11:49am

Same experience for me! 2 pain free nights in a row!

I too get minor shadows around 9pm, but nothing to abort. Hoping next batch or two will put it in it's place.

It is amazing how a good nights sleep affects your day. After work, I actually feel like doing something.

I feel for those who do not get relief. Hang in there and keep looking and experimenting.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 8^th, 2007, 11:18am

Three days now and still pain-free. This has exceeded all my expectations. Still some shadows at night and early morning, but that's all.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by nani on Aug 8^th, 2007, 11:58am

Sounds promising K-man. :D

All the best with it, and keep us posted.

continued pf wishes, nani who finds that seeds keep her CH under control

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 8^th, 2007, 5:09pm

Sounds really good K-Man.

I've achieved some, at least to me, amazing results in shortening and then aborting the entire cycle.

Keep us posted.

Sandy

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 9^th, 2007, 9:54am

Day 4 and still no pain!!!! Just a few shadows last night around 11:00. Slept like a rock.

It should also be noted that this is usually the most intense part of my 6-week cluster cycle. I'm in week 3, where the attacks typically ramp up to occur more frequently and with increased intensity. This makes the effect even more remarkable. The effect of the seeds is directly comparable to the desired effect of the shrooms where I will typically get anywhere from 4 to 9 days of relief from a single dose.

I'm careful still to avoid the possible headache triggers, which for me are alcohol, exercise, heat, hunger, and intense smells like perfume or cologne.

Billyjoe, how are you doing? Is it still working for you?

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 9^th, 2007, 3:41pm

Hi K-Man!
I'm doing OK. Had some pretty heavy shadows yesterday and the mornings hurt a bit until I have enough caffeine. I redosed last night and got a real good night sleep, but still morning shadows and minor ones during the day.

The shadows remind me of the times I didn't bother to abort the lower level hits at night. They don't wake me in pain anymore, but it's still there.

So this is my third dose, but I'm still on 240 mg verapamil. Not quite ready to quit it as I still have some pain and am enjoying sleeping.

I am in my 5th month now, so it appears to be a hard beast to kill at this point. It's becoming apparent, that these seeds may be working more as a preventative than a buster, in my case. Or maybe it may take a few more doses. Either way, I plan to continue and enjoy my sleep and low doses of the unnatural meds. I am looking for a bit more pain relief before I taper down to 0 on the verapamil.

Bill

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 9^th, 2007, 4:22pm

I forgot to add that I've been Trex free for 3 weeks now and no major CH!!!! That is definitely something wonderfull.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 10^th, 2007, 11:03am

Still sleeping through the night, but the beast is rumbling. Having stronger and more frequent shadows that make me think an attack will break through, but so far, so good. A bit of a scare with a strong shadow this morning, but fended off the attack with some strong coffee at the first sign of pain. It went away completely. I'm going to see if I can make it another couple of days before I use the seeds again. I really need to know the extent of their effect so I can gauge their use for future cycles. If the shadows increase much more I will have to assume the effects are wearing off, and I'll attack the beast with another blast.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 10^th, 2007, 12:27pm

34 hours after taking 50 seeds, (Yes, I'm experimenting with larger doses), I woke up from a great sleep and no headaches and only minor shadows.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10^th, 2007, 6:13pm

on 08/10/07 at 12:27:33, billyjoe wrote:

34 hours after taking 50 seeds, (Yes, I'm experimenting with larger doses), I woke up from a great sleep and no headaches and only minor shadows.

40 seems to be starting to work for me too, I'm going to 50 this sat if they come back. I haven’t got hit for 3 days and 2 nights (nothing evil ether since 2 dose ago when I went to 40) now with no DHE for a week! I’ll believe it when I go 2 weeks PF cause that never happens without a prednisone taper. I almost quit at 30 since I had no relief for 1 month at 30. Glad I started upping it.

PFD&N to all,

Rolo…

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by phil_h on Aug 10^th, 2007, 7:29pm

i had some good results for 4 months , than stopped working for me....doses vary , get a pepper mill , i let mine soak for 8 hours , fluid was tea like in color , also it tasted pretty good to me....when it worked it was great , i dosed every 3rd day.....phil h

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by littlefoot on Aug 10^th, 2007, 10:55pm

What a great post. Very informative and just the kind of info I want/need to know about.

I have a question. I just got the HBW seeds from iamshaman.com (had them fed x'ed over night, thought I had ordered the RC seeds, got the most expensive ones I could get). Does anyone know off the top if they can be prepared like K-MAN prepared his???

Thanks,
littlefoot

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10^th, 2007, 11:04pm

on 08/10/07 at 22:55:41, littlefoot wrote:

Don't forget to peel the husk off the HBW seeds! READ clusterbusters on this, Rolo ;)

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by nani on Aug 10^th, 2007, 11:17pm

littlefoot, I asked you this on your thread on the CH Specific board. I'll ask again here.

littlefoot, if, in fact you have another headache type...it's possible the alternative won't help at all.
Can you describe the location of the pain?
The duration?
I'm not sure why you haven't addressed my questions directly.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by littlefoot on Aug 10^th, 2007, 11:21pm

Yeah, I tired that Rolo. Didn't want to come off very easily. I'm a little concerned about using them, until I know that I have actually got it pealed off right. The husk and the seed don't seem to look much different from each other to me. Maybe better wait til the light of day???

Any other tips would be most welcome. I will read the info again, before proceeding. Do you know if I can prepare them as K-MAN did, once I get the husk off?

littlefoot

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by phil_h on Aug 11^th, 2007, 12:03am

grind in peppermill ,soak in about 12 oz water for 8-12 hours , strain....its a darker brew...start with 5-6 seeds see where you go from there..... the most expensive hbw seeds are the most potent...therefore less seeds..we're not looking to trip , just disrupt,prevent and reduce ha's.......the smallest effective dose works the best.....make sure you are dx with cluster headaches....there is some indication that it my even make other deviants of migranes worse .......good luck...what ever works and doesn't make you worse.... phil h

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 13^th, 2007, 10:23am

Another quick update: Made it through the weekend with only a few shadows but no pain. That makes a full week without any attacks after only one RC dose of 20 seeds. I'm hopeful this broke the cycle, but I reserve the right to maintain a healthy skepticism about the situation. Needless to say, any long-lasting relief like this is a smashing success.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by nani on Aug 13^th, 2007, 10:38am

YAY! :D

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 13^th, 2007, 11:40am

Good to hear! Are you med free now?

I had a good weekend too, but still getting minor shadows throughout most of the day. Not quite ready to quit the verapamil(240mg), as I feel the beast is still lurking. I have an appointment with the neurologist today. It will be interesting to hear his reaction to the seeds.

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by K-MAN on Aug 15^th, 2007, 5:20pm

I am pleased to report that the RC seeds I took appear to have ended my cluster cycle. It's been 10 days after only one dose of 20 seeds, and no attacks since. The shadows are gone, and I'm sleeping every night. This is highly unusual since I typically have about 3 weeks left in a typical cycle. Here's how this cycle went:

Week 1 - attacks coming on; took low dose of shrooms and got 4 days total relief; attacks returning and I'm out of shrooms

Week 2 - learned about RC seeds; attacks getting bad; using Zomig nasal spray or Maxalt tabs to abort; ordered RC seeds; 2 attacks daily are getting more painful -Kip 8- waking me up every night 2 hours after bedtime; seeds arrive; use them on a Sunday

Week 3 - No attacks, but have shadows and some are painful; thought several times that a real attack would break through, but it didn't; wondered how long this relief could really last

Starting Week 4 - No shadows at all; no sign of the headaches; sore muscles in my neck, back and head where the attacks had been happening 2 weeks before

My cycles are usually exactly 6 weeks long. This one lasted about 3 weeks using the abortive meds. I'm not going to tempt fate by drinking or doing anything that might trigger an attack until the typical 6 weeks is up. Maybe the shrooms and seeds have a synergistic effect. Maybe seeds are what my body responds to better. Maybe the newness of the seeds to my system has something to do with it. Whatever it is, I'll take it!

Title: Re: First Experience with RC Seeds
Post by billyjoe on Aug 15^th, 2007, 5:40pm

Excellent news!!

I too am seeing the shadows get less and less, although I have had 3 doses and may need another round or two. The difference may be due to being so far into a tough cycle and thus being harder to break. Of course we are all different.