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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Effective Acupuncture Treatment
        
(Message started by: acupuncturist on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:02pm)
Title: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by acupuncturist on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:02pm
Hi Everyone,

This is my first posting on ch and my first posting on the internet in general.  I am an acupuncturist.  I was having lunch with a former patient whom I treated for cluster headaches using acupuncture.  He asked me to post my results so that others that suffer from ch's may look at acupuncture as an option.  During my 10 year career as a practitioner I have achieved excellent results treating ch.  This particular patient came to me when he was 56 years old and had suffered ch's his entire adult life.  To this day, he thanks me for the results.  It took about 2 months of treatment and we were able to control the headaches.  This was back in 2003 and to date he has not suffered a cluster headache.  Occassionally he will experience the shadow headaches and will return for treatment. There have been other ch patients that I have treated with excellent results.  If folks are interested, I can do a more detailed case study presentation, discuss the chinese medicine philosophy and I would like to learn more from your experiences.  
Best Regards, Kathleen
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Brewcrew on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:07pm
This is my first post on the internet, and I have a service to sell.

Please.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Ray on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:08pm
Kathleen:

Welcome to the fourm.  As far as I am concerned, if any treatment works, that's a success story.  I've tried accupuncture in the past, perhaps 15 years ago.  I went for about a dozen weekly visits.  Although the experience was not uncomfortable as I thought it would be, it was not successful for me to control any aspects of my cluster headaches.

Sincerely,

Ray
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by nani on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:17pm
Hi Kathleen. Thank you for not posting a link to your site, or your address so we could all rush over for treatments. My answer to you if that were the case would be very different.  ;)

I tried it for CH. Didn't help a bit. My mother used it quite successfully for migraines, and I'm sure it's quite helpful for tension headaches. I have to venture to say that perhaps your patient was misdiagnosed. With all the postings I've seen here, no one has reported that it helps. It's relaxing, helps with other issues... but it doesn't really help CH.

nani
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by thebbz on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:24pm
Acupuncture is not a treatment for CH. This would be like killing an elephant with a hanky. ::) Thanks for the laugh though. [smiley=laugh.gif]
all the best
jb
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by chewy on Jul 25th, 2007, 9:33pm

Quote:
I can do a more detailed case study presentation


Dear Kathleen,

I have done a detailed case study of your post and present you with this;

You have no clue what you are talking about.

The end.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Karla on Jul 26th, 2007, 7:37am
I tried accupuncture and it did nothing for my ch.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by UN solved on Jul 26th, 2007, 9:21am
I have also tried this with no results.

Thanks for the laugh though !  [smiley=laugh.gif]

UNsolved
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by K-MAN on Jul 26th, 2007, 10:43am
Kathleen,

Thank you for your post.  I go to an acupuncturist as part of a multi-prong approach to managing my cluster headaches.  I also approach it from the nutrition, hydration, and medication standpoints.

I'm a long-time student of the Chinese martial arts, and I understand a little bit about the basis of Traditional Chinese Medicine.  My acupunturist is very experienced and well-respected, but I sometimes have a difficult time relating this very Western diagnosis of Cluster Headache to my doctor who is coming at the problem an entirely different way.

I would be very interested to learn more about exactly how you treated your patient successfully so I can discuss this with my acupuncturist also.  I can definitely relate to the frustration of the other people who have posted negative comments regarding this treatment.  Please understand that most of us have been led down the primrose path numerous times with no results, so many are understandably skeptical and cynical.  Regardless, we should be open to hearing what works for anyone.  It may just be the thing that works for me.

Please provide any "specific" details I can take to my acupunturist;  this information would be invaluable.

Thanks,

kmantexas
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Rosybabe on Jul 26th, 2007, 11:44am
I am sorry Kathleen but it did not work for me  :(. Thanks for the offer.

                                  Rosy.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by thebbz on Jul 26th, 2007, 9:56pm
Kman,
Skeptical,cynical, negative comments? I simply stated a fact. Acupunture is not a treatment for CH. Are you insinuating that I am, how did you put it, frustrated?
Dont speak for me Kman, I can speak for myself.
Do what you want, it's a waste of money.
thebb
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by BobG on Jul 26th, 2007, 10:40pm

Quote:
I was having lunch with a former patient whom I treated for cluster headaches using acupuncture.  He asked me to post my results so that others that suffer from ch's may look at acupuncture as an option.

Why didn't your former patient post the results himself?
Kathleen, IMHO you are a quack trying to make a buck off the cluster community's pain. Bite me!
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by sandie99 on Jul 27th, 2007, 4:40am
Interesting: according to this website, acupuncture can help:
http://www.medicinenet.com/cluster_headaches/article.htm


Quote:
Some people with cluster headaches have been helped by alternative or complementary therapies such as chiropractic, acupuncture, osteopathic manipulation, and herbal remedies.


Personally... you can't take me anywhere near needles! :o So no chance in hell that I'd try...

Just my  [smiley=twocents.gif]
Sanna
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by acupuncturist on Jul 27th, 2007, 7:35am
Yes, I have a service to sell: An effective service that has allowed patients to significantly reduce their pain, medications and their suicidal ideation.  Medications that cost thousands of dollars, that take the edge off of symptoms temporarily and that cause side effects are not the only answer. Acupuncture is worth looking into.
Best Regards,
Kathleen
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by acupuncturist on Jul 27th, 2007, 7:40am
Having read all the messages, I will have the patient that I wrote about post his experience.  Because of what he expericenced it was his suggestion that I write.  

Kathleen
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by George_J on Jul 27th, 2007, 10:24am

on 07/27/07 at 07:40:22, acupuncturist wrote:
Having read all the messages, I will have the patient that I wrote about post his experience.  Because of what he expericenced it was his suggestion that I write.  

Kathleen


I'll be on pins and needles.   :-/

Hope your patient's writing style differs from your own.  Variety is the spice in any good testimonial.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by starlight on Jul 27th, 2007, 11:56am
I did have acupunture help me once--about 13 years ago--it was towards the end of a cycle but I had 2 sessions and slept like a rock for the first time in months and headaches went away.  The acupuncturist told me that young people--I was 21--often have quicker and much more dramatic results with acupuncture.  Since then I haven't tried it for 2 reasons--lack of money and people pooh-poohing it--including doctors.  It was towards the end of the cycle but I do believe the acupuncture helped get rid of the cycle.  I believed it helped me until doctor said oh no it can't help.  But I bet it did.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Jul 27th, 2007, 1:39pm
I have a simple question:

Who can point me to some reports about double-blind studies suggesting the efficacy of acupuncture?


Isn't it so that, when after long enough needlework a natural healing shows up (or remission in case of CH) it is claimed as a "healing" for acupuncture; while all the non-results are swept under the carpet.


The 5000 year tradition doesn't impress me, it's more like 5000 year outdated foundation. It's like if the creators of the GPS had started off with a flat-world view, they'd still be trying.     ::)
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by thebbz on Jul 27th, 2007, 7:53pm
Hey there!
;) Dont call us, we'll call you.
thebb
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by acupuncturist on Jul 27th, 2007, 10:17pm
Dear K-Man,

Since you asked specifically about the acupuncture approach so that you may speak with your practitioner, I'll write from the Chinese Medicine approach and you may pass on the information.  Treatment for cluster headaches do not fit neatly into recommended acupuncture points for the treatment of  headaches.  After establishing a pattern of disharmony based in Chinese medicine, effective points are found a bit by trial and error.  What works for one patient may worsen another's condition.  A pattern, which will be familiar to your practitioner might be Liver Yang Rising - the most effective point I have found for this condition is Bladder 64 coupled with Bladder 2.  Auricular point occipital is effective for pain that extends to the back of the head. For Stomach Heat Patterns (or most bowel conditions) - Stomach 44 & Stomach 36 works well to alleviate pain and nausea and to clear the cloudiness in the head.  I have never found Liver points effective for ch, in fact they tend to worsen the condition.  Bladder 2 has helped tremendously with eye pain - Colon 4 with
Lung 7 will alleviate frontal lobe pain.   This information is not based in clinical trails.  These points are what I have found helpful in treatment.  An interesting observation: the patients that I have treated all had digestive problems, i.e. acid reflux, GURD, Irritable Bowel Syndrom.  Is it common for folks that have ch to have digestive difficulties?  
Best Regards,
Kathleen          
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Jonny on Jul 27th, 2007, 10:18pm

on 07/27/07 at 07:35:08, acupuncturist wrote:
Yes, I have a service to sell:


Seeing that you have only three posts (selling your shit) you probably dont realize that NOBODY.....and I mean NOBODY sells ANYTHING on this site without the permission of the webmaster.

Now take your bull.shit elsewhere!

Bye!  ;;D
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by MR_FLOOR on Jul 27th, 2007, 10:42pm
Puncture this.I call that pilling on. ;;D




Dave
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Lotus on Jul 27th, 2007, 10:51pm

Hello Kathleen

Would you be able to post your credentials such as your degrees/certificates in acupuncture and where did you do your training, which university or college? Do you belong to any accredited associations such as the College of Acupuncture, some place that we could check your details from? Do you have any other medical training or experience? How much do you know about clusterheadaches?

Do you offer money back guarantee in case your treatment doesnt work at all for CH?

Also do you have adequate medical/indemnity insurance for your patients in case something go wrong? Who do you insure with? What do they actually cover?

Would your previous CH patient for whom you successfully cured of CH be prepared to share the story by coming here and chat to us? Believe me, if he/she indeed did have CH and was cured by you he/she would be more than happy to let the whole world know.

Lastly I am a GP with a post grad diploma in acupuncture. My husband has CH. I can tell you from my personal experience that acupuncture does not work for CH.

Personally I think its very unethical for you to come to a support forum to advertise with an intention to make money from people who are suffering.


Annette
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Jonny on Jul 27th, 2007, 11:10pm

on 07/27/07 at 22:51:09, Lotus wrote:
Would your previous CH patient for whom you successfully cured of CH be prepared to share the story by coming here and chat to us?


Dont hold your breath on that one, baby.....LOL
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by DJ on Jul 28th, 2007, 12:26am

on 07/27/07 at 07:35:08, acupuncturist wrote:
Yes, I have a service to sell:

[smiley=referee.gif]
No soliciting allowed!
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by rolo65 on Jul 28th, 2007, 5:17am
Acupuncturist, I find it quite insulting to even try to believe a patient of yours would encourage you to solicit on this site for there gratification. ::)

I have personally tried acupuncture at my chiropractor (he is certified) and found it to be of no help at all for my chronic CH. That’s not to say its quackery, it may have helped a few others out there but that’s for them to say!

Therefore advocating your craft on this site will only get you flamed as you have well seen.

You would be far better off on Craigslist, than to come here with your needless little needles! Put them in your BS2U point and I’ll feel better for sure.

Rolo..[smiley=frown.gif]  
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by zapparulz on Jul 28th, 2007, 11:43am
man- people with cluster headaches are gprumpy ;;D
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Brewcrew on Jul 28th, 2007, 11:46am

on 07/28/07 at 11:43:39, zapparulz wrote:
man- people with cluster headaches are gprumpy ;;D

With good reason!
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by zapparulz on Jul 28th, 2007, 11:59am

on 07/28/07 at 11:46:22, Brewcrew wrote:
With good reason!



i know- i keep telling my wife that- ;;D
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by chewy on Jul 28th, 2007, 12:00pm
PHEW! Sure glad that headache is gone.

http://softiescentral.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/03/31/pin.jpg
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by rolo65 on Jul 28th, 2007, 12:07pm

on 07/28/07 at 11:46:22, Brewcrew wrote:
With good reason!


When I get only 2-3 hours of sleep a night while being hit every two hours with kip 8’s, I am a very grumpy person. Then I come on this site to help keep my sanity and find a thread started by some self serving acupuncturist peddling a load of crap IMHO, I’m going to be one grumpy flamer!

If stabbing my self in the temple was of any help, I would have an ice chopper sticking out of my head all the time. [smiley=hammer.gif]

Rolo.
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by Jonny on Jul 28th, 2007, 4:13pm
New member TODAY?

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Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by thebbz on Jul 28th, 2007, 4:23pm
Thats one hard headed woman.
[smiley=finger.gif] Go away, needle lady.
jeez
Title: Re: Effective Acupuncture Treatment
Post by George_J on Jul 28th, 2007, 6:51pm

on 07/28/07 at 16:23:11, thebbz wrote:
Thats one hard headed woman.
[smiley=finger.gif] Go away, needle lady.
jeez


Getting deleted wasn't a mistake.  Just in case you thought it was.   [smiley=laugh.gif]


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