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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> How many RC seeds to start?
        
(Message started by: birdman on Jul 19^th, 2007, 8:18am)

Title: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 19^th, 2007, 8:18am

I have been starting a few new threads lately and hope I am not driving anyone nuts, or nuttier, as we clusterheads are all a bit nuts. I hate to use other threads, always feel like I am kidnapping.
Anyway.... I recently purchased RC seeds and have researched both clusterbuster and here and see quite a difference in quantity of seeds used. I have never done anything like this and wonder what you would recommend as a starting dose. I am not at the start of a cycle but rather, can't get current cycle to stop. Usual cycle lasts 2-3 months and am now on month 5. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks folks!

Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by pattik on Jul 19^th, 2007, 9:27am

You're probably going to get a variety of answers, which may still be confusing. The CB site sets the starting amount at a conservative level for a good reason. Each batch of seeds varies in its LSA content, and each individual responds differently--some will be more sensitive than others. I have only used RC's once during a cycle, and although they did not stop the cycle entirely, they reduced the number of total hits (especially the nighttime ones). I started with 15 and later upped it to 20--always waiting at least five days between doses. Once this cycle ends for you, you may find the seeds very good at maintaining a remission if you don't delay dosing when you see activity starting up. Good luck, and let us know how things go for you.

Pat

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 19^th, 2007, 11:34am

Hi Tim. I believe the LSAFAQ suggests starting with 5 RC seeds.
Personally, I dose with 20 or more to "bust" a cycle, less as a maintenace (prevent) dose. Because we don't know the potency of the batch you have, I would be conservative at first. Since you are entrenched in this cycle, though, I would consider between 5 and 10 for your first dose.
Good luck, sweetie. hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by karma on Jul 19^th, 2007, 12:42pm

Hit it hard, between 20 - 25 and be ready to up it as needed.
If you only order 100 then be ready to order more before you run out.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Jul 19^th, 2007, 5:37pm

When using RC seeds its probably best to err on the side of caution with a minimal dose just in case of an adverse reaction 8-12 seeds.

However I havent yet heard of an adverse reaction but thats not saying it cant happen. Women can potentially have worse reactions than men. Lots of warnings on the clusterbuster.com site.

My experience has shown that the minimal effective dose is best and better than a higher dose when it comes to clusters. That dose we all have to find on our own.
The strenth of the seeds will vary from batch to batch as they are grown on a vine in varying climates. Not in a laboratory under strict scientific methods.

I use between 25-30 seeds per 1 time maintenance dose with my current batch.

Breaking a cycle was a little different for me and required a twice daily tapering dose for a few days.
Everybody is just a little different

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 20^th, 2007, 7:42am

Thanks everyone! My seeds arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, family situation will not permit me to start this weekend. Maybe right after. Thanks again for the responses so far.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 20^th, 2007, 8:39am

I began dosing while out of cycle with a monthly maintenance dose of 11 to 12 seeds. At the first sign of my cycle starting, like Nani, I took a "buster" sized dose of 30 seeds, waited 5 days then took another 30 seed dose. My cycle ended almost immediately, with very few hits.

Now, I'm back on my monthly maintenance dose.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by thebbz on Jul 20^th, 2007, 6:51pm

30 once a month here ;;D working so far. Tastes like potato peels :o
jb

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 8:52am

Been looking for an oppurtunity when the kids are not around. Luck would have it that tonight, the wife and kids are going to her cousins beach house for the night. I see that the clusterbuster site recommends a "sitter" for you when you dose. Should I be concerned about doing this by myself?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 10:38am

I wouldn't be concerned, Tim. The most I've heard a seed dose described as is a "two drink" buzz. Even that seems rare. Shrooms are a different story, though.
Good luck!
hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 11:05am

Tonight it is then!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 12:42pm

The most I've ever felt was just very relaxed and a little drowsy. Don't plan on doing anything important. Just dose, kick back and fall asleep. That's what happens to me.

Good luck. Remember, you will probably still get hit tomorrow and maybe even for the next few days. Use Red Bull, ice water, O2 if you have to abort those hits. Dose again in 5 days.

Let us know how what happens.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 1:07pm

Just had to fight one and was tempted to grab the 'trex but didn't. O2 did not help either. Just ice and rocking!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 1:21pm

Muddle through as best you can, Tim. The next few days might be a little rough until the benefits of the seeds kick in. But, if you can knock the beast out, it will be well worth it, in my opinion.

Hang tough. We're all here. Jump in here and vent, rage, cry, whatever you need to do. We've got strong shoulders for you to lean on.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 1:34pm

That is what is so great about this place. Plenty of understanding supportive people. I have got to make one of these annual events just to meet a fellow CH'er.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 2:16pm

Hey, don't wait for the next annual convention. Hook up with another clusterhead near you and just "do lunch".

My first ever clusterhead meeting, face to face, was with the famous Beeyul, you've probably read about on these pages. (Racer1NC). We met for lunch at a restaurant, having never seen each other before in our lives. He was immediately my family! There was not one second of feeling uncomfortable.

There is absolutely NOTHING to compare to meeting your first Clusterhead! Nothing.

That's why this place, this website, this forum, brings us together. We are a family. And, Tim, you are now a part of this family, crazy as we are.

HEY, to all NY clusterheads. Tim needs a meet & greet, whether a bunch of you, or just a one-on-one.

There. The words out! ;;D

I'd do it myself, but I live in NC.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 2:35pm

Thanks Sandy, I actually went to the meeting and gathering section and found someone in NYC looking to meet. Thanks for the support.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 3:03pm

Go for it Tim. You will not regret it. Trust me.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 24^th, 2007, 7:50am

Well, tried 5 seeds last night and had no real effects. Was tired to begin with so I am not sure if the sleepiness was a result of the seeds, being tired, or a combo of both. Probably a combo. We will se what today brings. I have the O2 on hand, but it has not worked as of late. Cross your fingers for me!
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Jul 24^th, 2007, 11:11am

Hey Tim

I am so holding thumbs that this works for you. I swear if it does I am going to have to take myself a healing holiday in Holland or such where I can get hold of these things.

Cheers,

Wayne

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 24^th, 2007, 11:30am

Can someone tell me if I should strain the water before drinking? I soaked the curshed seeds for 2 hours as instructed and just gulped it down. Is that correct?Thanks!

Wayne - I am with ya. I am ready to take a trip myself. Take a trip for a trip. Haha!

Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by LeeS on Jul 24^th, 2007, 12:12pm

Don't strain Tim, gulp it down.

All the best with it and keep us posted.

-Lee

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 24^th, 2007, 1:23pm

What tools/methods does everyone use when they are crushing seeds?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Redd on Jul 24^th, 2007, 1:38pm

Pepper grinder.... ;;D

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by LeeS on Jul 24^th, 2007, 1:43pm

I use a sharp pair of scissors (to cut them in half), followed by a good granite based pestle and mortar.

Redd (I think) uses a "cheap" pepper grinder - although "reasonably-priced" ones are supposedly better. Can't vouch for the expensive ones tho ;) ;;D

Some folks use the wrong end of a large screwdriver/hammer - a good bashing usually does the trick, but some medication may be lost ::)

I'm sure there'll be more :-/

With MG seeds it's a bit more technical :)

-Lee

Edited to say: Redd beat me to it! ;;D

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Redd on Jul 24^th, 2007, 1:47pm

on 07/24/07 at 13:43:12, LeeS wrote:

Edited to say: Redd beat me to it! ;;D

I said small (and dedicated,I use it for nothing else0. I didn't say it was cheap...

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by LeeS on Jul 24^th, 2007, 1:52pm

on 07/16/07 at 10:42:25, Redd wrote:

Actually you crush the entire seed up before soaking. Many have found that a cheap pepper grinder works quite well.

LMAO ;;D

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Redd on Jul 24^th, 2007, 2:12pm

I stand corrected.. :-[

But if you notice, I didn't say MINE was cheap... [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 24^th, 2007, 2:34pm

That would be the perfect tool. Cheap or not! Thanks.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 24^th, 2007, 2:57pm

When I first tried rc seeds, I used needle nosed pliers to crunch the seeds, then soaked.

Now - pepper grinder. Much easier to swallow, not that it is EVER easy to swallow.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 25^th, 2007, 1:34am

How are things going, Tim?

I use flat nose pliers that have a smooth (not ridged) nose.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 25^th, 2007, 7:46am

Went the whole day yesterday without a hit. Had weird shadows on and off all day but read about the day after effects. Got my O2 and ice packs all ready though. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Redd on Jul 25^th, 2007, 8:26am

It is sounding as though you've shaken the beast up. This is good news. From my personal experience, I would suggest weekly doses to maintain the upper hand over the beast for a month, and then see how things go from there.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 25^th, 2007, 12:11pm

Sounds promising, Tim. :D
Stay on top of it....
hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 25^th, 2007, 1:04pm

Had shadows again today, jumped on the O2 right away, not sure if it would have developed. Didn't want to find out. Either way, the O2 was not working before and is now so that is good news. Planning on taking 10 seeds on Sunday night and doing a weekly maintenance for now. Then I will switch to a monthly maintenance for the future. So excited that there is something that works besides med's. I will keep updated as I go along.
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Jul 25^th, 2007, 1:17pm

Tim,

Did you do the full 5 days detox? How did you go about this? I presume you had to taper on the Verapmil?

Thanks,
Bill

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Jul 25^th, 2007, 2:49pm

WTG Tim! Keeping my fingers, toes, eyes, and anything else I can cross crossed!

Wait your 5 days, dose again, wait another 5 and dose.

Hoping for PF days and night to you!

Keep us posted.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 26^th, 2007, 8:12am

Bill,
First dose was Monday night, waiting unitl Sunday/Monday to dose again but this time using 10 seeds. Lets hope today is another day of only shadows at most.
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 26^th, 2007, 10:08am

Just got hit with a kip6-7. O2 did not work and it was just me and my ice. Had to dance a bit. I think it was my fault because I was horsing around and finally got out of breath. Needed some deep breathing to catch my breath and immediately got hit. Had the trex in my hand but fought the urge. I have to remind myself to stay calm when in cycle and got a little too gutsy this morning. Let's hope tomorrow brings better results.
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Jul 26^th, 2007, 1:08pm

Birdman

If it were me I wouldnt wait to dose again, I'd hit it ASAP with a higher dose 15-25 seeds. All the prevent (LSA) has left your system
Sounds like the beast has figured it out. Hit it again.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 26^th, 2007, 3:21pm

Let's get everyone's opinion on that. Should I wait or not?
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 26^th, 2007, 4:02pm

on 07/26/07 at 15:21:03, birdman wrote:

Let's get everyone's opinion on that. Should I wait or not?
Tim

It's really up to you, Tim. Anecdotal evidence suggests the 5 day wait is best. An odd hit between doses is not unusual, but we don't want you to suffer needlessly either. If it were me, I'd wait until tomorrow night or Saturday.
hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Jul 26^th, 2007, 4:30pm

From what I have read and my experiences at Dead shows, tells me the small dosage you took wasn't enough. I have friends that would take recreational shrooms 2-3 days in a row and still get off. I have ordered some RC seeds and plan to take about 20.

Good luck!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 26^th, 2007, 7:07pm

Bill, CH can usually be controlled with sub hallucinogenic doses.
And as a treatment, it seems to work better with smaller doses, spaced at least 5 days apart.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Jul 27^th, 2007, 12:48am

on 07/26/07 at 19:07:32, nani wrote:

Bill, CH can usually be controlled with sub hallucinogenic doses.
And as a treatment, it seems to work better with smaller doses, ---------(edited)------------------.

I agree with Nani, she is a true pioneer in this treatment and a voice of reason.

There is with the RC seeds a minimal effective dose that seems to work better for CH than a too high dose.
It's a balance point, not too little not too much in my experience..

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by karma on Jul 27^th, 2007, 1:49pm

I would dose regularly, sometimes two days in a row with 25-28 seeds. After suffering for a couple of days waiting for the prescribed 3-5 days inbetween I couldn't deal with it any longer and discovered that a dose will work great to abort a hit.
I started about two weeks into a cycle when it was just starting to get bad. 2 weeks of seeds and it was all but over. I would have prepared doses in the freezer and would walk around with one in my pocket just in case.
Great stuff!!!!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by zapparulz on Jul 28^th, 2007, 8:18am

ok- please somebody tell me what these seeds are....

and how does one get them?

please

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billy_the_kid on Jul 29^th, 2007, 7:47pm

need updates please........

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 30^th, 2007, 8:03am

Sorry for the lack of updates. I was away this weekend at my son's travel baseball tournament. Had shadows everyday at the same time (11:00am) but it never developed into a full blown H/A. Tonight I am going to dose with 10-15 seeds and hope for the best. Wanted to last night but didn't get home until late and couldn't wait the two hours of soaking. Wish me well!
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Jul 30^th, 2007, 8:29am

Hey Tim, this is sounding good, holding thumbs for you mate, and I've started enquiries re my imminent departure for Amsterdam.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 31^st, 2007, 8:10am

Family situation prevented me from dosing last night. Tonight it is. Also, yesterday, no shadows or hits all days. What a great day! Let's hope for two in a row.
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Jul 31^st, 2007, 8:43am

Glad to hear it is going well! I've got seeds fermenting right now. I'll be with you in spirit tonight, just like the Aztecs :)

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Jul 31^st, 2007, 9:13am

Hey Tim

I saw on the other thread that you're also on Verapamil. I thought that you were supposed to be med free for a week before the alternatives would work, was I wrong there? I can relate to not wanting to stop something that does work in order to try something that may work and if you can do them in conjunction then so much the better.

Wayne

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Jul 31^st, 2007, 9:28am

Wayne,
From Clusterbusters:
Finally, there are the Calcium Channel Blockers. The most popular CCB used by clusterheads is verapamil. We have received reports of clusterheads achieving complete success with psilocybin while taking verapamil. I have also seen reports from chronics whose only medication at the time of their psilocybin trials was verapamil, who failed to get any significant relief.

http://clusterbusters.com/faq.html

Personally, I've tapered down 240mg prior to trying the seeds.

Bill

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 31^st, 2007, 9:41am

I have to taper very slowly. In the past, tapering too quickly has put me right back in cycle. Figured I would try and the worst that would happen is it wouldn't work. Trying again tonight.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Jul 31^st, 2007, 9:51am

Bill

Thanks for clearing that up for me, this seed option is looking more and more attractive. Bother is that I can't get hold of them very easily here. There's Morning Glory by the bushel but I haven't managed to track down RC seeds at all.

Good luck to both of you!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Jul 31^st, 2007, 12:47pm

Wayne,
go to iamshaman.com
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by tommyD on Jul 31^st, 2007, 3:33pm

Don't really know much about such things, but I understand that seeds can be considered an agricultural product and could be subject to strict rules about inspections and quarantines and such when you try to ship them across national borders. Anyone with knowledge/experience in this?

-tommyD

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Jul 31^st, 2007, 3:38pm

My friend in Mozambique expressed those very concerns, Tommy. If they did get through, she felt her mail delivery not regular or safe enough to count on. There is a CH Africa message board out there, but I've lost the link. The last time I checked, it wasn't very active.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 1^st, 2007, 1:52am

on 07/31/07 at 15:33:05, tommyD wrote:

That's exactly what I am concerned about, I'm trying to locate an importer of exotic plants or such who has already done the hard work. RC really is not well known here at all and so far all I've got for my troubles are blank stares.

As for mushrooms obviously they're all imported or grown under questionable circumstances so buying off the street is a no no, even without the potential legal consequences. Not sure which route is going to be the easiest and safest.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 1^st, 2007, 8:18am

Had minor shadows yesterday which O2, ice and a coke took care of. Took 15 seeds last night and relaxed. Had some funky dreams and didn't want to get up. No hangover feelings or any other side effects. Hopefully relief is on its way.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 1^st, 2007, 11:19am

Just got my butt kicked by a killer hit. O2 did nothing and it was me and the ice dancing for an hour. Hoping it was the devil's last dance. Now I have an icepick in my eye that will not go away. Need some positive reinforcement.
Tim :-[

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by SoCal on Aug 1^st, 2007, 11:34am

Hang in there Tim. I'm following your progress and hoping the best for you. Have my RC and waiting for this latest cycle to end for me so that I can get on a maintenence schedule. Good luck, buddy.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Aug 1^st, 2007, 11:39am

At least you got a good nights rest. I'd hit it hard with the seeds in 2 or 3 days.

I did about 25 seeds last night at golf. Played my best round of the year. Felt no effects but slept like a baby. We'll see.... I think it's worth following through on the seeds for a bit longer. As someone said earlier, seeds are the small hammer. Perhaps you need the big boy(shrooms).

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 1^st, 2007, 12:06pm

I am not confident in my ability to grow them. I couldn't keep a fish tank without killing all my fish. How am I gonna grow something? LOL
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 1^st, 2007, 12:07pm

Hey Tim

My knowledge of this is very limited but from what I have read this is fairly normal as the seeds try to dislodge the beast from his perch, He fights back a bit. I remember Schwarzenskaff (sic) going through the same thing with his mushrooms, we haven't heard from him in nearly a month so they must have worked. Hang in there, you're gonna be great soon!

Cheers,

Wayne

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Putter on Aug 1^st, 2007, 2:37pm

This has been really interesting reading and hang in there! I admire your courage to try the seeds. I look forward to more updates so keep us posted!

Leanne

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 1^st, 2007, 2:48pm

[quote author=birdman link=board=meds;num=1184847489;start=50#61 date=08/01/07 at 11:19:07]Just got my butt kicked by a killer hit. O2 did nothing and it was me and the ice dancing for an hour. Hoping it was the devil's last dance. Now I have an icepick in my eye that will not go away. Need some positive reinforcement.
Tim :-[/quote]

Tim

Check your PM's.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 1^st, 2007, 7:01pm

Hi Tim. Yes, as Wayne mentioned, it's not that unusual to get a few hits after you dose. It means that something is happening. Watch your progress for the next several days. If things stay the same or improve, hold back. If things get worse, consider another dose in 5-7 days.
Keep plugging away...
hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 8:01am

Fortunately/Unfortunately, I will be in Disney from 8/5-8/10 and not sure that I should dose while away. Staying in 3 bedroom suite with in-laws and not sure how that would go. They are not aware of my choice to try this though they probably would be cool with it. Decisions, decisions. :-/

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 10:30am

Okay, I am a coward and weak! I had another whopper this morning and I caved in and went to the trex. Did I just screw up all my efforts? Bring on the abuse.

Tim :(

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 10:41am

Dunno mate, but I can tell you that I would have done exactly the same thing!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 11:01am

I don't think your a wimp for going to the trex but I do think your too scared of the seeds. The amount of psilocybin in 25 seeds isn't enough to get a mouse high!

Shit or get off the crapper!

Tough love buddy :)

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 11:25am

Actually, seeds do not contain any psilocybin. They contain LSA (lysergic acid amide). Hopefully Tommy or Lee or Patti will be along to expand on that.

Tim, the trex may set you back from this last treatment, but it also may not. That was helpful, huh? ::) I'd try to stay off it and dose again after 3-5 days of detox.
hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 12:11pm

If you have had a recent dose of seeds and the LSA is still in your system, a few powdered seeds (3-5) placed under the tongue can, for me, abort a ch as fast as some claim trex does if taken at the onset of an attack.
less than 15 minutes to abort.

For me I found that following initial dose after only 6-12 hours the seeds work well as an abortive.

5 cents vs. trex shot. and you wont have to start over.

This may not work if its been a few days since dosing.
For me it was important to maintain a level of the seed stuff in my system to break a cycle. Contrary to popular opinion, I dosed 2 times a day while waiting out the 5 day suggested period to break a well set cycle.

Add; what worked for me. http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1138385923

Maintenance dosing is easy, breaking a cycle is not.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by LeeS on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:10pm

Yep, LSA (as in RC/HBWR/MG seeds) is more akin to LSD (molecularly speaking); although psilocybin/psilosin is very similar. See Albert Hofmann "LSD – My Problem Child" for further details. I think Erowid have the full version available free online – but if you would like a signed hardcopy (bit pricey now) see:

http://www.maps.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=102

As you'll see, all profits from the sale of this signed edition are restricted to MAPS-sponsored LSD and psilocybin research.

I'm with you MJ on the seed "SPUTS" (originally denoting a Small Piece [of mushroom] Under the Tongue. See clusterbusters.com for full details of this. I have managed to abort several attacks with 3-5 crushed seeds as quickly as subcutaneous sumatriptan, if caught early enough (irrespective of the previous dose time). I normally take a few with me when flying (airplane that is), which can often be a trigger for me.

Also like you MJ, Flash often used to suggest very small doses taken over time (originally the 'sip-method') rather than single doses. I personally tried this a couple of years ago, with some success, but not as successfully as the intermittent larger dosing strategy, over longer periods (up to three months sometimes).

All the best with it Tim and keep us posted.

-Lee

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:21pm

Took 15 on Tuesday and am flying to Florida on Sunday morning. Thinking about taking larger dose on Friday night and hoping for a peaceful vacation.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 1:56pm

Tim, no abuse coming your way for having to resort to the trex. You do what you gotta do, hon. We've all be there.

Your last dose of seeds was 15 on Tuesday, and you had to hit the trex today, correct?

If it were me, heading out on a nice vacation, I would also dose on Friday, even with having taken trex, and even though it's less than the advised 5 days.

But, Tim, I think I would up the ante on the seeds. For me, a "buster" sized dose worked out to be 30 seeds. I had to take two buster doses, 5 days apart, but it stopped my cycle in less than 2 weeks (my normal cycles are anywhere from 8 to 16 weeks). I aborted what hits I did get with 02, and life was grand!

My maintenance dose is 12 seeds, and this is when I'm OUT of cycle.

You know how to reach me and I got your PM, and have responded, so check your PM's. Talk to you later.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by CC_stole_my_Harte on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 5:19pm

Si I just ordered 250 seeds from I Am Shaman. I am worried now because on the website it says that it contains no LSA. Are they just saying that so it looks a little less questionable? I hope I didn't order stuff for my BF that doesn't work!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 5:21pm

What kind of seeds did you order?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by CC_stole_my_Harte on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 5:44pm

HBW Seeds (Ayurvedic) - VIABLE

Is what it says on the website. Dangit, I think I DID order the wrong thing. I now see the other seeds that say Illegal to consume in the US... Damn. there goes 30 bucks down the drain. These were more expensive than the illegal ones too crap! I guess I will just have to order more tomorrow.

Hey does anyone know if my BF takes these regularly if they will show up on a drug test?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by karma on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 6:06pm

Birdman,
Next time grab the seeds to abort. I would use them to abort any time day or night. Never affected my work or my social life.
I would have doses prepared and ready in the freezer at home, in a fridge at work and even in my pocket during the day.
Don't let the stigma discourage you. The affects, on me at least, were unnoticable...................... well accept for the headache disapearing.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 6:06pm

on 08/02/07 at 17:44:44, CC_stole_my_Harte wrote:

HBW Seeds (Ayurvedic) - VIABLE

Hey does anyone know if my BF takes these regularly if they will show up on a drug test?

My guess would be, probably YES, although I'm not an expert.

Does your BF want these seeds to help stop his CH, or does he look to these seeds as something to give him a high, without worring about a drug test?

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but we've had many newbies on these boards whose only purpose here was to find a new "high", so, frankly, I'm skeptical.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 7:45pm

How would you use seeds as an abortive? Crush them and stick them under your tongue? No soaking?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 7:59pm

Simple as that, just let them dissolve/ soak in your mouth.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by MJ on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 8:16pm

on 08/02/07 at 17:44:44, CC_stole_my_Harte wrote:

CC
your seeds might make a nice plant.
Remember this thread is talking allmost exclusively about RC (Rivea corymbosa) seeds. They are more user friendly than HBWR seeds to use and prepare. HBWR has a much higher potency.
These ones: http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductUID=1853&ProductCode=RVC-50

Though a lot claim success with HBWR as well.

LSA can be tested for.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsa/lsa_testing.shtml

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by CC_stole_my_Harte on Aug 2^nd, 2007, 10:09pm

Sandy, don't apologize at all for being speculative! Believe me I want these to not be stigmatized as well. The reason I ask for my boyfriend is because I, myself am not the CH sufferer. But I'm the one who does all of the research on the topic though because he is a courier and drives all day whilst I sit on my butt all day at a computer. I won't be taking any of these! But the last time I visited here was several months ago and this is the first I am hearing about this treatment. I got a little confused with all of the acronyms being used. When I purchased the seeds, I thought RC/HBWR and a couple of the other ones were really the same thing. I will be ordering the correct one tomorrow in hopes they will let me return the other one for a credit. Any clue on where I can find for sure if these will show up on a drug test though? That can create problems. I wouldn't want this to be working well and then have him take 3 months of detox before changing jobs or something and get hit again. Sorry, you guys will find out... I'm long winded.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 7:57am

How much water should I be using? Currently, I am using a shot glass, is that enough?

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 11:25am

That's what I use, Tim.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 11:47am

Yep, shot glass for me too (I use my OUCH glass that I got in Milwaukee - must be the glass, because it works for me).

One shot glass, crushed seeds (quantity of your choice), chug, (do not sip - it tastes so vile you will never get it down if you sip), chase with nice clear water to get the little chunks out from between your teeth and under your tongue. Sorry, I know I'm making this sound terrible (which it is), but if I can do it, so can you!

Have a great PF vacation! Let us know how you are doing.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by karma on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 11:54am

For me just a couple ounces of water. Just enough to liquify the mix. I chew up the the chunky bits and swallow chase it with some water.
It's not really that bad.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 12:52pm

Got flattened again this morning. It is the only hit I get and it is either 9-10 or 11-12 in the morning. Gave into the damn trex again. It is hard to fight off at work. HOme is a different story. Not so sire I should hit it with 30 seeds tonite after using the trex. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Tim >:(

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Redd on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 1:11pm

You really should detox from that shot of trex for 3-5 days prior to dosing again. Trex is known to interfere with the alternative treatment effectivness. Giving in to a shot is understandable. It's then a matter of gathering up your fortitude to ice and pace out the few days of not taking any meds with your eye on the prize. You went threw hits and survived before trex came along...you understand the condition better now, and understand it will end. Trust me...it can be done. ;)

Any seeds you would consume if not totally detoxed from trex are pretty much a waste of medication.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 3^rd, 2007, 3:57pm

Hey Tim

Maybe you could try Redbull, or even the seeds themselves as an abortive rather than the trex just for a few days. I know that when you're hurting its normal to grab for something that you have faith in, I know I would. But I reckon if you're going to give the seeds a fair chance you're going to have to adopt a different strategy. Its a tough one mate, mentally and physically!

Wayne

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 4^th, 2007, 9:01pm

Alright folks, after much thought, I have decided to wait until I return from vacation and then detox from the trex and give the seeds a good try. For now, I have to make sure that trip is fun for the family and can't be suffering in the middle of disney. Once I return, I will hit it hard with seed and fight with red bull, ice, and O2. I feel like I let myself down by not planning this better. Should have reliazed trip was coming and planned to start after it. I promise to start over as soon as possible. Can it get any hotter in NYC?
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 11^th, 2007, 8:49am

Alright, after only a couple of hits in Florida, I am going to hit it with 30 seeds tomorrow night. Have not used trex since Monday so that should be enough time. I will let you know how it goes.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Aug 11^th, 2007, 10:24am

I recommend 50.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 11^th, 2007, 1:38pm

on 08/11/07 at 10:24:38, billyjoe wrote:

I recommend 50.

billyjoe, I find it best to share our experiences rather than to recommend anything. Especially such a high dose.

Tim, good luck on your upcoming dose. hugs, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by karma on Aug 11^th, 2007, 8:21pm

Billy Joe,
I have to agree with Nani. Evidence so far suggests doses considerably lower than what you have been trying.
I do understand why you recomended dosing at what worked for you. I deviated from the suggested routine myself but I worked up to it.
The chances of someone having an adverse reaction to this seems to be quite small but there is a chance so we need to be careful about making recomondations without an explanation. People need information so they can choose their own path based on experiences.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Aug 12^th, 2007, 12:22am

I agree that everyone is different and we need to careful about any dosing or recommendations. I also don't like to see anyone suffer unnecessarily.

Tim, There are a few people here that have had more success with 40 to 50 seeds. As you know, some people also do shrooms. Why? Is it because it is a different chemical that works better or just a bigger hammer? Not sure. If it is to get a bigger hammer, than perhaps a larger amount of seeds may yield similar results.

Unfortunately, there is no manual here. Hopefully, over time and some experimentation, we will have a better handle on what works best. But you need to be your own judge.

Good Luck, and hope you had a nice vacation with your family.

Bill

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 12^th, 2007, 12:28pm

Tim, fingers and toes are crossed for you.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 13^th, 2007, 12:22pm

30 seeds and a solid night sleep. So far so good. Thinking this may have done the trick. If no hits, I will switch to a monthly maintenance dose. Lets hope so!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 14^th, 2007, 7:54am

Got hit last night at 2:30 am. Sucked! :(

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by nani on Aug 14^th, 2007, 10:29am

Sorry you got hit, Tim. Remember, it's not unusual to get some post dose activity.

hugs and continued pf wishes, nani

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 14^th, 2007, 12:56pm

Thanks Nani, I am just frustrated. Long cycle for me and I am not the most patient person. I will keep fighting though!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 15^th, 2007, 4:07pm

Hey Tim, how was Disney?? Praying for you mate.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 16^th, 2007, 9:42am

Disney was as hot as expected. The CH's were limited and not as disruptive as I thought they would be. After gettign my first on the plane down, I thought it was going to be hell.

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 17^th, 2007, 8:59am

Thought the 30 seeds worked and tried again to taper off the verap and can't do it without getting hit. Starting to wonder if cycle is broken but if verap is now CAUSING ha's. I taper slowly but even a half of pill causes a one a day ha. Always a couple of hours after I take my verap. I am only finding success at 840mg, once I go below I get one a day. Wondering if it is the lower dosage or just the change causing. Or is it the verap itself. HHHEEEELLLLPPP!
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Wayne on Aug 17^th, 2007, 10:52am

Hey Tim, a shot in the dark here but methinks you need to follow the sage guidance of others here regarding tapering off Verap, namely you only start tapering after 2 weeks PF. I guess that you should give the seeds chance to completely do their job. I truly don't believe that the Verap can actually cause CH but the combo of the RC and Verap may be doing funny things. Who knows!!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by billyjoe on Aug 17^th, 2007, 10:57am

I'm of the opinion, at the moment anyways, that it may take multiple doses to break an entrenched cycle. Hopefully, the seeds will allow you to keep off the Trex and keep dosing every 5 days or so. Perhaps then you will be able to start tapering off the Verapamil.

Good Luck!

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 17^th, 2007, 12:13pm

on 08/17/07 at 08:59:01, birdman wrote:

Tim, I honestly don't know becuse I began dosing while out of cycle in hopes of completely aborting the next one due. The seeds did not abort the start of the next cycle, but they most definitely finished it quickly.

The only thing I can say is that clusterbusters.com recommends that you completely detox from all meds (those you are taking related to CH) before beginning the alternative methods.

The only meds I've ever taken for CH is trex, but, I'm episodic, so when I began my seed regimin, I was out of cycle, so detox was not a problem.

Clusterbusters stresses the detox to a certain extent. I don't know if verap needs to be 100% detoxed from your body for the seeds to work, or not. Being somewhat clueless, I'm asking those in the know, to help here! GUYS, GALS. CLUSTERBUSTER FOLKS, please chime in.

Help our bro!

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by birdman on Aug 17^th, 2007, 12:14pm

Thanks for the support folks, it is appreciated. Just frustrated as this cycle should have ended a 4-6 weeks ago. I know that sometimes it can be unpredictable but I am just venting. Thanks for listening!
Tim

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 17^th, 2007, 12:19pm

Tim dahlink. This why we are here.

We listen.

PF wishes.

Sandy

Title: Re: How many RC seeds to start?
Post by tommyD on Aug 17^th, 2007, 7:17pm

Verapamil seems to interfere with seeds and shrooms for many, but some have stayed on verapamil with good results. It's not a settled thing by any means, but the for-best-results advice is to detox from verap.

Of course you must follow your doc's advice in tapering verap or any med. And only you know your situation well enough to decide whether to stay on the verap go through the detox process. Staying on the verap, if its working and not causing blood pressure or cardiac problems, might be the easiest way out.

But there are ways to cope with the detox. Oxygen is a great abortive anytime, but especially wiith a clustermasx. And of course there are all the usual coping tricks.

And it's early but there are a few reports and it seems the taurine energy drinks like Red Bull can be used and not interfere with indoles. At least it seemed to work for me just recently.

-tommyD