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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Lidocain 
        
(Message started by: MadHatter on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:21am)

Title: Lidocain
Post by MadHatter on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:21am

My coworker heard about my CH problem and claimed to have had 1 (only 1) CH a few years ago. Went to the ER crying and in the worst pain he ever experienced. Said they told him it was a CH and hung him upside down and stuck a cotton swab soaked in Lidocain into his sinus and the pain went away.
Now what strikes me as odd isnt the upsdie down or the cotton swab bit, but that he only had 1 headache and never had any more.

So has anyone ever experienced relief from lidocain?

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:28am

If you hung me upside down while having a cluster I’m sure my head would explode.
http://bestsmileys.com/bat/1.gif

Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 17^th, 2007, 2:12am

on 07/17/07 at 00:21:04, MadHatter wrote:

So has anyone ever experienced relief from lidocain?

Yes, Lidocaine does give some people short term relief, if applied properly.

The swab is used to get the lidocaine back onto the bundle of nerves in the back of the sinus cavity.

People that get a prescription for it, (in a liquid form) usually use an eyedropper to squirt it into the sinus cavity while the head is tilted off the edge of the bed, hanging their head down and to one side. This pools the liquid onto the nerves and deadens the pain....sometimes...if you pool it over the right area.
Some people use a sprayer but that is much less effective.

It's very cheap, compared to other treatments, but only usually lasts for that one attack, before it wears off.

Bobw

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Rosybabe on Jul 17^th, 2007, 8:46pm

I don't think your coworker had a single CH, that is why they are called CLUSTER because they come in clusters, he could had a trigeminal pain cause those hurt a lot too., but I am not a Doctor...

about the lidocain, I have a bottle but I got it at the end of my cycle so I did not have the chance to test it ;) I also got Zomig so I went for that instead.

I will try it for sure next time.

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by liquidsuspension on Jul 17^th, 2007, 9:27pm

my doctor says thats my next possible treatment. if it works even a little during some of those bad ones, i'm willing to give it a try.

BTW i wish i had cycles that had only 1 HA every few years too. ;)

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Guiseppi on Jul 17^th, 2007, 11:29pm

I tried it in the early 80's, I would drop 4% lidocaine drops down the nostril of the affected side while holding my head upside down over the side of the bed.

It would bring the headache down by at the most 3 clicks on the kip scale and always made me barf afterwards.

Fortunately lithium works these days as a great prevent with oxygen as my current abort. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't keep plugging away. There is a combo out there with your name on it!

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by MR_FLOOR on Jul 18^th, 2007, 1:36am

I had no relief from lidocain.I used an eye dropper layed on my back and dropped it in the affected nostril as perscribed,and nothing.

Dave

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Ray on Jul 18^th, 2007, 12:29pm

I agree with Bobw (Pinkfloyd). I was taught to lay flat on my back, leaning my head off of the end of the bed, bent back (looking up) and turn my head 45 degrees towards the affected side. Staying in that position was MURDER during a hit. I would thrash around and bicycle my legs.

It was used as an abortive. There are stronger topical anesthetics which were tried also. For me, those would abort about 1/3 of the hits. I had to travel 7 hours each way to refill this "stronger" prescription and it wasn't worth it. This method does work for some people but was not worth it for me.

Best of luck,

Ray

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by mynm156 on Jul 21^st, 2007, 4:38am

NO!!! Lido RAMPED up my Attacks almost immediatly!! 6-9 in 3.2 seconds!!! I hope that you have better luck!!!

Good Vibes

MYNM156

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by Xenoz on Jul 22^nd, 2007, 7:37am

I tried Lidocaine 4% liquid solution (don't get the viscous, it won't flow down your nasal passage as it should), applied with a 1 ml dropper. On back, head tilted back 45 degrees, turned to the side of pain 40 degrees.

It was what I hoped would be an effective abortive in place of Imitrex. It worked to a degree - but I wasn't impressed. Reduced severity temporarily (from Kip 9 to maybe Kip 7) for maybe 30 minutes but that particular attack still lasted two hours - it's not an abortive, only a cover-up. After the numbness wore off the pain returned in full.

Other problems with using the Lidocaine:

-you need to stay in the position described above for at least 5 minutes. This is an uncomfortable position in the best of times, but is horrible during an attack. Since lying down makes my pain escalate faster, it felt like a race between the CH gaining strength and the lidocaine gradually trickling down and pooling in what I hoped was the right spot and gradually numbing it.

-it won't work if your nostril is congested. Which is one of the symptoms of an attack.

-when you finally get up from that position, your neck will be stiff, and the lidocaine will spend the next 15 minutes gradually flowing down the back of your throat with a nasty taste - and numbing your throat up. They suggest not eating or drinking for at least 30 minutes after application due to possible swallowing/choking issues due to the numbing of the throat muscles and tissue (however, I did not experience much numbing in the throat, probably because of my post-nasal drip forming a barrier)

-measuring out 1ml of the stuff in the dark or dim light is difficult. Getting into the above position while still having access to the filled dropper is also difficult. Easy to spill it on the bed or floor. Then you need to figure out what to do with the messy used dropper without moving.

I still have some on hand just in case everything else fails, but haven't used it except for the first time. Even if it had made me 100% PF for that attack (or at least 30 minutes), the rest of the issues above make it a last option for me.

I never tried it as a preventative - but doubt its efficiacy for me, as the partial numbness only lasted about 30 minutes. I suppose it's possible I didn't quite have my head in the right position and maybe didn't pool it all in the right area, and may have been somewhat congested at the time.

However, I'm sure that with practice and honing technique, it would theoretically be possible to use this as an effective pain reducer and/or preventative (applied, perhaps, just before going to bed) by those for whom other methods do not work at all.

Other possible uses:

-I suppose that if a very small amount were applied to a toothbrush and carefully brushed into the gums of the pain side, it could reduce associated tooth pain during an attack.

-I doubt that rubbing it directly into the temple as a topical analgesic would be very effective and haven't tried it - but has anyone else tried this and found it effective or helpful?

-Xenoz

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by DannyV on Jul 26^th, 2007, 3:01pm

I tried it years ago with no success at all. The pain is just way too much for it. I also tried the"other" caine ,applied the same way. There was some relief, but still, unsuccessful. That was before Imitrex.

Title: Re: Lidocain
Post by gmanley01844 on Jul 27^th, 2007, 3:59am

I have used lidocain had no effect on me infact nothing has I've been on everything from A-Z I've had this CH for a year now with only two days free of pain I've even been on lithium,topamax,max-alt,migranal spray,imotrex,varapamil (broke out in hives with that one lol) at one time this is no lie I was on 13 meds at once yuk! still haven't found any relief