Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Seeds vs Shrooms
        
(Message started by: birdman on Jul 13^th, 2007, 7:59am)

Title: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by birdman on Jul 13^th, 2007, 7:59am

I am finally realizing that the verapamil I am taking just may lenghten my cycle. I used to go for 2 months, now up to 5-6 months. I have decided to try detoxing and going to the alternative treatment. Can anyone recommend which is the most effective/successful? Any and all information would be acceptable. Please be aware that I have many concerns about cultivating successfully.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by LeeS on Jul 13^th, 2007, 9:23am

This is a tricky one birdman, empirically speaking. All the anecdotal evidence that is currently available suggests that LSA containing seeds may be as effective as psilocybe mushrooms, but there are fewer "case histories" to compare directly. I'm not sure if TommyD has completed a new 'interpretative summary' as yet, but he has certainly been working tirelessly in respect of collating all the data. No doubt he'll be along shortly.

My own personal recommendation would be to start off with the RC seeds and see how you progress. There is nothing to stop you switching thereafter if you don't get the expected results; which may also give you a bit more time to sort out your cultivating concerns.

I'm sure you have, but if not, check out http://www.clusterbusters.com for full details

All the best with your detox and subsequent therapy.

-Lee

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by nani on Jul 14^th, 2007, 1:24am

Tim, I agree with Lee. Seeds are legal and cheap, and work quite well for some of us. Good luck, sweetie.
hugs, nani

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by tommyD on Jul 14^th, 2007, 7:11am

The LSA seeds seem to be almost as effective as psilocybin, but if I had to make a choice on a medicinal basis, shrooms seem to be a little more effective, IMHO. Folks seem to get more post-dose hits with the LSA seeds. Side effects wise, folks are more likely to get high, for better or worse, on medicinal doses of shrooms. Both taste really bad, but we have better tea recipes for shrooms.

On the practical sides of things, each has their advantages and disadvantages, depending on situation.

I'm no kind of lawyer, but as far as I can tell, seeds are indeed illegal - just as illegal as shrooms. We are not allowed, in most places, to use these seeds the way we use them. We are allowed to have these seeds if we intend to grow the vines, and we are allowed to possess and enjoy their beautiful flowers. But you can indeed be prosecuted for possessing LSA-containing seeds, and just saying, "But officer, I was just going to grow flowers" won't necessarily get you off the hook. It's amazing how much the authorities are allowed to assume about intent when it comes to drugs.

That being said, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone - other than teenagers trying to get high on morning glory seeds - being busted for possession of LSA-containing seeds.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by karma on Jul 14^th, 2007, 11:53am

Quote:

The LSA seeds seem to be almost as effective as psilocybin..... shrooms seem to be a little more effective, IMHO.... more post-dose hits with the LSA seeds.... more likely to get high, for better or worse, on medicinal doses of shrooms.

Tommy I apologize for breaking apart that paragraph, but what I left is what I needed to make my point.

Never having tried shrooms for CH I have only anecdotal evidence to go by. I did have great success with RC seeds last time around
I believe that most people under dose with Seeds. This may be why the increase in post does hits and decrease in side affects. We aren't hitting the bastard hard enough in the beginning at 5, 10 or even 15 seeds.
I used the seeds to abort bad hits and was dosing at 25-28 regularly. As was suggested I too started with a much lower dose but it wasn't until I upped it that I found success.
I would have no problem in suggesting that some one start with the RC seeds first but for the best success start early.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by birdman on Jul 14^th, 2007, 1:56pm

Is there a specific place that anyone would recommend to purchase seeds from? I have in fact checked the clusterbusters site but was looking for opinions from folks here.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by nani on Jul 14^th, 2007, 4:06pm

on 07/14/07 at 13:56:22, birdman wrote:

Is there a specific place that anyone would recommend to purchase seeds from? I have in fact checked the clusterbusters site but was looking for opinions from folks here.

www.iamshaman.com

I think I should clarify...
seeds are legal to buy, but are not legal to ingest.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by billyjoe on Jul 14^th, 2007, 5:15pm

Has anyone else wondered if the effectiveness of shrooms and seeds may be related to how Glyconutritions(Ambrotose) work? I don't know if there is a link but it may be work trying, as a supplement anyways. I'm going to give it a try.

From : http://www.the-mcmillion-co.com/products-health-glyconutrients2.shtml:

Natural Sources of Glyconutrients

Not surprisingly, many of the sources of glyconutrients, especially the essential eight glyconutrients, have been used for centuries as healing medicinal compounds in many cultures around the world.

The primary sources of glyconutrients are fungi, saps, gums, and seeds, while the secondary sources are grains, fruit and vegetables.

Glyconutritional mushrooms and fungi

Mushrooms and fungi have been used medicinally in Japan and China for centuries with good results. They contain glucose, galactose and mannose which are known immune system boosters. They have anti-tumour actions, suppress inappropriate immune reactions, and act as modulators of the immune system.

Mushrooms contain a polysaccharide containing beta-glucans, called lentinant, which stimulates the white blood cells to devour invaders and detoxify or clean up the toxins they leave behind. The beta-glucans have been shown to fight cancer and tumour growth thus extending cancer survival time, fight infection in people who have suffered traumatic injuries and protect people from going into shock from severe infections, improve recovery from radiation treatments, and boost wound healing.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. I too am on a long cycle :'(
-billyjoe

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by thebbz on Jul 14^th, 2007, 10:14pm

ethnobotanicals.com
I look at it simply Shrooms are the big hammer and seeds are the little hammer both work, use them accordingly.
all the best
jb

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by birdman on Jul 16^th, 2007, 8:11am

Thanks all, I will keep you posted.
BTW, what type of seeds would you recommend. RC?

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by nani on Jul 16^th, 2007, 10:05am

Yes, RC. They don't need to be hulled (which I found really difficult to do with HBWR). iamshaman is very quick. They usually ship within an hour or two of receiving the order.
Keep us posted, hon.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by birdman on Jul 16^th, 2007, 10:36am

Thanks Nani, I just ordered 100 Rivea corymbosa seeds. Hopefully they will be here by the weekend. If I understand the process correctly, when you say they don't need to be hulled, you mean the are already out of their husk/shell? I can soak them in water for 2 hours and drink?

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by Redd on Jul 16^th, 2007, 10:42am

Actually you crush the entire seed up before soaking. Many have found that a cheap pepper grinder works quite well.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by birdman on Jul 16^th, 2007, 11:07am

Thanks Redd, I can order one of them today too. I am guessing this drink is going to taste like s$%t right?

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by nani on Jul 16^th, 2007, 11:17am

Worse than that, I think. LOL
I never use more than 2 ounces of water for that reason, and I chase it with something sweet, like orange juice. I also use pliers with smooth "pinchy parts" to crush them up.

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by tommyD on Jul 16^th, 2007, 3:43pm

Quote:

I believe that most people under dose with Seeds. This may be why the increase in post does hits and decrease in side affects. We aren't hitting the bastard hard enough in the beginning at 5, 10 or even 15 seeds.

Karma -

I think you're right. With shrooms the usual advice was to use half a recreational dose. LSA never really caught on as a recreational drug, but the dosages I've heard for RC seeds was 100 - 150. One of the problems with seeds is that they lose potency over time, and they can vary from batch to batch. With so little psychoactive effect, it's hard to tell if the seeds have enough LSA to do any good. You have to wait and see if the attacks diminsh over the next few days.

I started off with 15 RC seeds, quickly doubled that to 30, then bumped it up to 40. With fresh seeds, that amount worked well for the clusters, and gave me just enough buzz to know it wasn't my imagination. The psychoactive effects of LSA are generally mild anyway (a lot of folks just get sleepy)

But I have to agree with the conservative advice. Seeds can vary in potency, and people vary in sensitivity. Possible stomach upset is also a reason. But I also agree that folks shouldn't be afraid to up the dose if the first one didn't seem to do much.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Seeds vs Shrooms
Post by Squanto on Jul 16^th, 2007, 8:52pm

on 07/16/07 at 11:07:04, birdman wrote:

Thanks Redd, I can order one of them today too. I am guessing this drink is going to taste like s$%t right?

Actually, Birdman, the crushed seeds don't taste as bad as you might imagine. MJ was the first one that I read here who just put the crushed seeds under his tongue. I was very skeptical at first. I tried them that way and to my surprise, prefer the taste of the seed "powder" more than the taste of the seed "tea." Worst part (for me) was the bits and pieces of the seeds that end up in the various hiding places in my mouth. (Sorta like the chunks of peanut shell when you break open parched peanuts with your teeth.)

Bust up 9-10 seeds and put a couple of pinches of the debris under your tongue. If you can't stand the taste - spit 'em out. You won't be wasting much.

Good luck,
Squanto