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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> melatonin alters semen quality
        
(Message started by: ozzy on May 1^st, 2007, 12:36pm)

Title: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by ozzy on May 1^st, 2007, 12:36pm

Public Service Announcement:

Long term use of melatonin alters semen quality

Quote:

J Androl. 2002 Jul-Aug;23(4):572-8. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Comment in:

* J Androl. 2004 Mar-Apr;25(2):185-6; author reply 186-7.

Melatonin administration alters semen quality in healthy men.

Luboshitzky R, Shen-Orr Z, Nave R, Lavi S, Lavie P.

Department of Endocrinology, Haemek Medical Center, Afula, Israel. luboshitzky_r@clalit.org.il

The role of melatonin in the regulation of reproduction in humans is unknown. We conducted a 6-month, double-blind, crossover study of a daily treatment dose of 3 mg melatonin or placebo given orally at 1700 hours in 8 healthy men. Semen quality (concentration, motility, and morphology), serum and seminal plasma 17-beta-estradiol (E(2)), testosterone, melatonin, and serum gonadotropin levels were determined every 3 months throughout the study. In 6 men, there was no change in semen quality or in serum and seminal plasma hormone levels during the study period. In 2 men, during the melatonin treatment period, sperm concentration decreased to 3 x 10(6)/mL and 12 x 10(6)/mL, and motility declined to 32% and 30%. These coincided with a decline in seminal plasma and serum E(2) levels and with an increase in testosterone:E(2) ratios. Six months after the cessation of melatonin, sperm concentration and motility were normal in 1 man but remained abnormal in the other one with a still elevated testosterone:E(2) ratio. Serum gonadotropin levels were unchanged during the study in all 8 men. Our preliminary observations suggest that long-term melatonin administration is associated with decreased semen quality in a number of healthy men, probably through the inhibition of aromatase at the testicular level.

Full study here:

http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/23/4/572

In other words, if you're thinking of reproducing...quit taking melatonin....that's it...now carry on..I'm just a ghost from the past....

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by BB on May 1^st, 2007, 12:56pm

I wouldnt say a 6 months study is a long enough study to justify the conclusion you drew that it will significantly reduce fertility in men.

The study itself does not claim that at all, its your own opinion and it is not accurate.

Many things can reduce sperm quality a lot more than that, for eg excessive alcohol and heavy smoking.

Annette

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by LeeS on May 1^st, 2007, 1:20pm

... and that limey-bird! :o

Thanks for the report ozzy - where've you been and how are you doing?

-Lee

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by ozzy on May 1^st, 2007, 1:23pm

Let's see...decreased quality and quantity (please read the full article before commenting)...according to you (BB) does not correlate to decreased chances of impregnation....go tell the doctors and researchers that... or couples trying to conceive...

BTW smoke and alcohol also decrease the quality and quantity...

and 6 months not long enough? At 6 months those results are evident...now when it has to do with chronic CH....try taking melatonin daily for several years.....

PS...I've been gone and will be gone as soon as I finish this note..still chronic, (not trying to impregnate my wife...), but as many have before...just gone for a better quality of life.

Edited: for content

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by BB on May 1^st, 2007, 3:31pm

There are many flaws with this study and they are why one can not draw the conclusion that you did with any reliability:

1- Semen analysis is not a test for fertility. Semen analysis only tells you about the content of of the ejaculation, not the ability of the individual sperm to penetrate the egg to start a pregnancy.

A sperm function test is needed to determine fertility. It measures the ability of a sperm to survive and stay mobile in the cervical mucus and to be able to penetrate the outer layer of the egg. Only one healthy sperm is needed each time.

A sperm count between 3X106 and 12X106 can still achieve fertility. Normal sperm count is 20x106 or more. Normal motility is 50% hence a reduction to 32% and 30% may not be clinically significant.

It takes 3 months for sperms to be produced and matured in the testicles, the process is called spermatogenesis, spermiogenesis and the storage of sperm in the epididymis. Therefore a study over 6 months at best will cover only 2 cycles of sperm production, definitely not long enough to determine the clinical implication of how "functional" the sperms are.

When the number of sperm is reduced and the motility is reduced, one may take longer or have more difficulty impregnanting a partner, doesnt mean the person is infertile. Having perfectly normal sperm count and motility doesnt guarantee fertility either. A total of 30% of all couples with perfectly normal readings fail to achieve pregnancy.

Thats why a sperm functional test is more reliable.

2- 6 month is not long enough. The study does not draw any conclusion over what would be the long term effect of taking melatonin ( as in years ). They cant say anything because they havent done the study long enough to be able to say it. That was your own opinion and its not based on facts.

Melatonin is a neurotransmitter and a hormone. One can not predict what effects it has on the human body long term without actually studying it. Its possible that the long term effect maybe very different. The body may adjust to the new level of melatonin.

3- Another flaw of this study is the size of the test population. There were only 8 men in the study. Its not a large enough sample to be representative of the population. Also there were no mentioning of other factors such as smoking, alcohol intake, usual sexual practice etc which all play a role in sperm production.

4- Only 2 out of the 8 men "responded" to the Melatonin treatment and had reduced sperm count and motility. The other 6 had no reduction. Actually 3 of the other 6 had increased sperm count. Interestingly the 2 that "responded" to the melatonin already had lower sperm count at the beginning compared to the other 6 although theirs were in the normal range.

5- 6 months after stopping melatonin, 1 of the 2 "responders" sperms returned to normal. Only 1 remained abnormal, but we dont know for how long. So one cant really draw a conclusion over what would be the real effect of melatonin over years.

When reading an article, one needs to have the basic knowledge of the biological/biomedical/pharmacological process as well as an understanding of statistics to be able to determine how reliable a certain study is.

Just because an article has been published doesnt mean its right or accurate. Many studies have been ripped apart by peer reviews and later totally disproved.

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by BB on May 1^st, 2007, 3:33pm

The article is interesting and it helps bringing the awareness of what melatonin may do to our body. Thank you for posting it.

But its wrong to add your own personal conclusion/opinion telling people to go off melatonin the way you did. It maybe the only thing that helps your CHer friend to control the night hits.

One shouldnt consider stopping/starting/changing the dose of any medication, Melatonin included, without first checking with your doctor ( quoting and thanking Unsolved for this very wise advice ).

Painfree wishes to all

Annette

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by ozzy on May 1^st, 2007, 3:53pm

I wonder when was it that people at CH.com had their doctors prescribe melatonin? Kudzu? Ok Shrooms...their doctors surely prescribed them shrooms...that's why when I used shrooms and or kudzu and or melatonin I had them prescribed by my docs and then I consulted with them before stopping.

BTW it is not just one study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16371109&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14760004&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14716105&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12814350&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12472624&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12353419&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum

As you say, melatonin is a hormone an long term effects at when supplemented at doses well above the norm will have some impact. If someone stops taking a medication/supplement, just because I said so...they're idiots and deserve everything they get. If such person does the necessary research and makes a decision based on factual information, then that person is very wise.

It's this type of bullshit that have made some of the smartest people here leave. People with a lot more patience than me. I used to be patient...no more

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by LeLimey on May 1^st, 2007, 4:44pm

Ozzy its nice to see you back even if it is just a flying visit - you're missed! Stop by once in a while and let us know how you're doing please
Helen

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by nani on May 1^st, 2007, 5:04pm

Hi Ozzy!!!!! I miss you! Please come back soon. :-*

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by Kopfschmerz on May 1^st, 2007, 5:35pm

Does it effect soldiers as well? [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by thomas on May 1^st, 2007, 5:37pm

Thanks for the info, Ozzy. Hope all is well with you.

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by chewy on May 1^st, 2007, 9:07pm

You still got that reality TV show going on?

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by BB on May 1^st, 2007, 9:31pm

Thank you Ozzy for posting the links to the the articles and for clarifying that you dont expect people to just stop taking melatonin if they are trying for a family, as you suggested in the first post.

Please understand that I am not flaming you. I was simply debating the article you posted, the conclusion you drew and disputing the initial advice you gave in your first post. If you are someone who is into researching and studying more about CH, I believe you would enjoy a healthy/intelligent debate with people on whatever topic you may choose.

Regarding intelligent people leaving here because they become impatient, I have one thing to say : we are here to help others, especially those in pain and new and not yet have the knowledge/skill to deal with this terrying condition. We shouldnt be here only to display how intelligent we are . The intelligent people who get impatient and upset when challenged, who up and leave and taking their knowledge and service away from the Board, are indeed being selfish, in my opinion.

Personally I have been challenged ( to put it mildly ) many many times, but I refuse to leave because I am not here for myself, but I am here for my fellow clusteheads.

Painfree wishes to all.

Now grab an oar and row ....

Annette

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by Guiseppi on May 1^st, 2007, 10:47pm

I can often be the first to let me ego get in the way and start flaming...many of you have seen me lose it on the board...Linda now keeps me on a short leash! ;;D

It's another chance to remember what the board is for and remind ourselves how critical this board is to so many people. Love ya all......(well most of you the rest I just tolerate with gritted teeth!!!!) :P

Guiseppi

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by Pinkfloyd on May 3^rd, 2007, 1:12am

on 05/01/07 at 15:31:03, BB wrote:

5- 6 months after stopping melatonin, 1 of the 2 "responders" sperms returned to normal. Only 1 remained abnormal, but we dont know for how long. So one cant really draw a conclusion over what would be the real effect of melatonin over years.

So it should be something that people looking to conceive in the future, consider, and may want to follow up with more research.

on 05/01/07 at 15:31:03, BB wrote:

When reading an article, one needs to have the basic knowledge of the biological/biomedical/pharmacological process as well as an understanding of statistics to be able to determine how reliable a certain study is.

So, I guess that leaves you out.

Or are you trying to tell us that before we post any references on studies here for informational purposes, we need to check with you on the study's reliability?

Hey Oz...good to see you. May all your swimmers be healthy and taken out often for exercise.

Bobw

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by ozzy on May 10^th, 2007, 1:58pm

Thanks all for the welcome back (I'm not really coming back).

But for the sake of completeness...I had my doctor order a some tests during my last checkup.

I have test results (figures in bold are mine):
Immed Motilty: (ref: 60-100) 35
1 Hr Mot: (60-100) 15
Sperm Count: (60-150) 40

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by LeLimey on May 10^th, 2007, 2:00pm

Well just so you know you're missed and not forgotten Ozzy :) Check in once in a while, you did such a lot for us all before and we don't forget. We'd just like you to poke your head up over the top once in a while

Take care of you and yours
Helen

Title: Re: melatonin alters semen quality
Post by Linda_Howell on May 10^th, 2007, 8:09pm

Quote:

It's this type of bullshit that have made some of the smartest people here leave. People with a lot more patience than me. I used to be patient...no more

Ozzie, please don't let this person or anyone else stop you from coming here. Surely the good outweights the bad here. There are people here whom you have liked and respected and it is not fair to them, much less yourself.

When....if.... there is ever a cure or a drug to allieviate CH you're gonna hear about it first HERE.

Linda, who has missed you.