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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> CH and mushrooms
        
(Message started by: bluebrain on Apr 10^th, 2007, 4:42am)

Title: CH and mushrooms
Post by bluebrain on Apr 10^th, 2007, 4:42am

From an article appeared in OUCH-US, April 2007(newsletter) by Peter May.
sic:" Some of the most favoured and widely used drugs for the acute treatment of severe primary headaches(CH) are a number of different selective 5HT 1 AGONISTS, known collectively as the triptans (e.g.Sumatriptan), these drugs are believed to constrict extracerebral intracraneal vessels via 5HT 1B receptors, inhibit activity in periphereal trigeminal neurons via 5HT 1D/1F receptors and block transmission in the trigeminal nucleus also via 5HT 1D/1F.
Recently, it has been argued that perhaps the most effective unconventional treatment of CH is by using psilocybin/psilocyn, LSD or LSA as medication. The most interesting aspect that differentiates this therapy from other CH medications is that it can not only abort a single attack, nor just prevent an attack from ocurring in the first place, but it can actually terminate an entire bout for an extended period of time, long after all traces of it have vanished from the body. In the case of some chronic sufferers this period can be as short as two weeks, in case of episodic CH, this period may be as long as a year or more. Sumatriptan is sulphonated DMT and Psilocybin is phosphorylated DMT. "
Unfortunately he doesn't mention that you need a low dosage and almost absence of side effects.
Just one thing, have you noticed how alike Serotonin, Psilocyn, Psilocybin, LSD, LSA, Ergotamin, Methysergide, Sumatriptan are?
Best wishes.
Bluebrain

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by tommyD on Apr 11^th, 2007, 5:50am

Yeah, I've heard it said that methysergide and sumitriptan were attempts to come up with a non-hallucinogenic version of LSD to treat migraines.

LSD had been found to have good potential for migraine treatment in a study done in the mid-’60s. The study needed follow-up, but the curtain came down when LSD was made illegal.

Of course, you can't be using any get-high drugs to treat Aunt Ethel's migraines, so just using small doses of LSD, or other indole hallucinogens, was out of the question.

-tommyD

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by DannyV on Apr 16^th, 2007, 4:31am

I have never noticed sumitriptan to be anything like any hallucenogen I ever tried. I have taken as many as 8 shots of Imitrex in a 24hr period and never even one giggle.

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by tommyD on Apr 16^th, 2007, 3:59pm

The similarities are in the molecular structures of the substances. Their actions on our brain and on clusters may or may not be similar.

Sumitriptan doesn’t make you hallucinate, and it can end a cluster attack quickly. Other triptans have a longer half-life and can serve as short-term preventives.

Psilocyn, Psilocybin, LSD, LSA can all make you hallucinate to some degree, and they can also end both individual attacks and entire cycles. If one is careful with doses, and isn’t overly sensitive, one can end cluster attacks and prevent cycles without hallucinating at all.

-tommyD

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by LeeS on Apr 18^th, 2007, 5:04am

on 04/10/07 at 04:42:40, bluebrain wrote:

Just one thing, have you noticed how alike Serotonin, Psilocyn, Psilocybin, LSD, LSA, Ergotamin, Methysergide, Sumatriptan are?

Yes indeed - from the same article:

Quote:

As many practitioners (and no doubt pharmaceutical companies) know, many traditional prescriptive medications for both the acute and prophylactic treatment of primary headaches are based on indole-ring and related hallucinogens.

Methysergide, a serotonin antagonist, can be a very effective preventative treatment amongst CH but is not without its side-effects. It can be an ideal choice for sufferers whose bouts last less than 4-5 months and doses of up to 12mg per day can be used if the side effects are tolerated. Sufferers can be started on 1mg once a day and then the dose is increased by a further 1mg after every three days until the dose is 5mg per day. After this, the dose is increased by 1mg every five days. Although rare, prolonged use of this drug can cause side effects including damage to the heart, lungs and kidneys. Although this drug can be used in the chronic form of cluster headache, it is necessary to keep a close eye on possible side effects and a break from taking the drug (a drug holiday) is recommended every six months.

Interestingly, methysergide is closely related to LSD; the chemical formula for methysergide is C21 H27 N3 O2 whereas LSD is C20 H25 N3 O2. Like LSD, methysergide can also produce psychedelic effects. The threshold dosage for these is 4.3mg. Full blown effects can be felt with dosages of 8-20mg.

Ergotomine, an active ingredient of the ergot fungus that grows primarily on rye, has been a mainstay in the management of severe primary headaches for around 100 years. It has a complex pharmacology, involving interaction with a wide variety of serotonin receptors, as well as alpha adrenergic receptors and others. Ergotomine is believed to have a vasoconstrictor effect on inflamed dilated blood vessels, but it also penetrates the blood-brain barrier and effects trigeminal relay pathways in the brainstem. Dihydroergotomine (DHE), also a potent vasoconstrictor used in the treatment of CH, is barely absorbed orally, so it is generally administered parenterally or nasally. Perhaps interestingly, LSD is also a derivative of ergot and hence has a similar molecular structure to ergotomine.

-Lee

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by Polly_C on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 4:22am

Im currently controlling my CH with psilocybin with great success. Have tried sumatriptan in the form of Imigran nasal spray and found that it differs greatly from psilocybin in terms of efficacy. With psilocybin I get several days PF but only get relief from single attacks with the Imigran.

I take small doses and dont really trip at all. Just a mild buzz (like a few drinks but minus the hangover) and a bad case of smiling alot. I think if you weigh this up against some other conventional treatments, for eg. verapamil and prednisolone - which was my next treatment option (ECGs and heart function tests? er, no thanks) well, I reckon there's no contest. Id sooner take a natural substance than a chemical - particularly one that messes with your heart rate!

To put this into sharper perspective for you I should mention that I gave up breastfeeding my baby in order to try this treatment - not a decision a mother takes lightly - so that I could function somewhere close to normally and be a fit and happy mother. I tried persevering with just oxygen but it wasn't up to the job as anyone who's tried coping with a crying infant (that alone would floor some folk) whilst dealing with a Kip 10 hooked up to O2 will tell you.

Check out clusterbusters.com for more info on psilocybin treatment.

Pol :)

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by LeLimey on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 4:27am

Polly its good to hear from you and I'm so pleased all is working out so well!
As a mum we do what we have to do and decisions aren't easy or made lightly but you have made the right one hon, a happy pain free mummy is better than a couple of feeds any day in my opinion and I'm sure your baby would agree! Speaking of which - PICS!!

Really pleased to see you posting
Helen

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by Polly_C on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 4:56am

Hey Helen

Good to hear from you. check your inbox - Ive emailed you with pic.
P :)

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by Bob P on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 6:38am

This weeks Newsweek magazine has an article on medicinal psilo. It's mostly about OCD but mentions Harvard and MAPS.

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by tommyD on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 5:07pm

There is this in Time Magazine:

Are psychedelics good for you? It's such a hippie relic of a question that it's almost embarrassing to ask. But a quiet psychedelic renaissance is beginning at the highest levels of American science, including the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) and Harvard, which is conducting what is thought to be its first research into therapeutic uses of psychedelics (in this case, Ecstasy) since the university fired Timothy Leary in 1963.

Rest of the story at:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1612717,00.html

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by Bob P on Apr 23^rd, 2007, 6:15pm

Interesting. Same article, even the same picture that was in Newsweek.

Title: Re: CH and mushrooms
Post by bluebrain on Apr 24^th, 2007, 3:30am

It seems that we are becoming a group of sufferers that has a pretty well understanding of the benefits of psilocybin/psilocynin in the treatment of CH, I'm not excluding those who are using LSD or RC seeds but still think that a psilocybin/psilocyn-based drug is the present and future solution for us CH patients. I even think that migraine patients will benefit of it. In the near future I'll present to you all my one simple theory of the cause of CH and of why psilocybin/psilocyn works,(its a variation of the theory that was valid in the 60's and 70's). I wrote about it to A. Sewell and to one patient, whom by the way has given me a very good tip, (but has forgotten me or thinks that this theory isn't valid). Its a simple theory and by no means the last word on this subject.
Best wishes
Bluebrain