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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> What's the word on licocaine?
        
(Message started by: Superpain on Mar 28^th, 2007, 8:39pm)

Title: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Superpain on Mar 28^th, 2007, 8:39pm

Atert trying to get a hold of my neuro's office all day they finally call me back at 5:15.
I'm trying to get some stadol for these ha's I've had lately that are over the top, out of control, as a last defense to keep me from hurting myself.
I told her I've had it before and stressed the importance of having it for these "super headaches" as a last resort. And while she's willing, we were having a hard time finding anywhere that carries it.

So... She suggests lidocaine. Absurd as far as I'm concerned. I guess she doesn't understand the severity of this pain and my immediate need for something seriously narcotic when nothing else works. How could she...
Anyway, I found a cvs that has it and I called the answering service to try to reach her with the pharmacy info, but in the meantime she's called in lidocaine for me. ::)

Has anyone used it? And does it wok? And should I expect it to work on a K10 screamer?

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Gator on Mar 29^th, 2007, 7:40am

No personal experience with lidocaine, but I would imagine you would have to catch the attack early like with other treatments. I can't imagine laying on my back with my head tilted back during the worst part of a "normal" attack, let alone a K10.

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by chewy on Mar 29^th, 2007, 8:05am

Quote:

She suggests lidocaine

I suggest finding a new neuro.

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Guiseppi on Mar 29^th, 2007, 9:57am

I was prescribed lidocain in the mid 80's. You would lie back and snort it out of an eye dropper. It would take the edge off, maybe ramp it down a click or two, but always made me throw up. Fortunately I discovered far more effective prevents and aborts since then.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Samiam on Mar 29^th, 2007, 9:58am

I've used stadol on a kip 10 never killed the pain just made me not give a shit about it. If a drug store doesn't have it they can order it in for you and have it in about a day or two but you need a hard script it can not be called in.

My last Neuro would give me a script for it I would get it filled and carry it with me I think both cycles I used it only once and then threw it out. I don't ever want to add another problem to the cluster. And with this drug it's very very easy to get hooked.

If it was me find something else. Never tried the Lidocaine. What about the predisone taper?

Sami

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by nani on Mar 29^th, 2007, 10:52am

Superpain, I have to ask again... why aren't you using a triptan (like Imitrex) along with your O2?
Narcotics aren't effective and Lidocaine might help some. You've been around long enough to know about trex statdoses... is there a reason you can't use them?

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by chrisw on Mar 29^th, 2007, 11:13am

I once had a "pain specialist" give me a lidocaine treatment that involved about three hundred feet of gauze up my nose, tha t he then soaked in lidocaine and put me almost upside down and lay like that for about two hours.
That night I was up all night in pain. It did absolutly nothing, and it was horrible to go through at the same time. I think it was a bullshit treatment. Try something else if it is at all possible.

Sometimes these docs pretend to know what they are dealing with, but they really dont have a clue, and alot of the time they cant even be bothered to look up info on the problem. I want to scream at them, "I know this is a relatively rare problem, and if you dont know how to treat it, I understand. Just tell me the truth, and I will find someone who does know something about it. Stop using me as a source of income, and remember your oath to help patients"

Sorry didnt mean to vent, maybe that treatment will work for you. Hopefully it does,a nd you can feel better.

chrisw

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 29^th, 2007, 12:20pm

on 03/29/07 at 08:05:24, chewy wrote:

I suggest finding a new neuro.

Yeah, what doctor would suggest lidocaine, if they knew anything about clusters?

How about Dr. Lee Kudrow who did most of the pioneering research on treating cluster headaches and probably treated more cluster patients than any other human being.
Kudrow developed the protocol for using lidocaine. The details can be found on the clusterbusters FAQ @ http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html#5 in section 4.1.6.2
What appears on the site are instructions written for me by Kudrow's assistant.
If it isn't done properly, it won't work. Even if done properly, it may not work or may only provide partial help. But then again, which cluster meds don't fit that description?

It does need to be done very early for best results. It's difficult at best to apply it properly and for a long enough period of time, if you've already ramped up.

It's an old remedy but that doesn't mean it no longer has a place in treatments as another option, especially when everyone has different things that work, and don't work, for them.

All in all, its about the cheapest prescription med available that may provide relief. I only say this as a "what do you have to lose" comment.

If used properly, it'll probably provide as much or more relief as Stadol, although its certainly not as convenient.

Bobw

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Margi on Mar 29^th, 2007, 12:31pm

Bob is that the sphenopalatine block that you're referring to?

I remember Ted had one (or maybe two?) done a few years ago and they did really help him at high cycle. I'm sure it involved lidocaine and swabs inserted in his nostrils. If I recall correctly, it gave him a couple weeks of pain freedom at a time. And for a chronic in high cycle, that was bliss for him.

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Superpain on Mar 29^th, 2007, 1:38pm

Yeah, that kind of sums up my thoughts on lidocaine too...
It's not the actual doc that prescribed it, just hs P.A.. She's the one I saw this last visit. Which is fine with me cuz it's only $100 to see her and her script pad works just as well as his, and I know what I need and want. All she has to do is listen and write scripts. ;)

Nani, yeah I use trex everyday.
But I've been getting hit with some weird extremely severe hits lately, some of which get stronger with trex. The beast smiles, spits that shit back at me and bitch slaps me in the face with a hatchett!

I need the "make me not give a shit" effect wqhen this happens.
The office is open now so I'm gonna call and see what I can do...
Thanks!

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 29^th, 2007, 6:42pm

on 03/29/07 at 12:31:35, Margi wrote:

It sounds more like what Ted used was closer to what Chrisw's doc tried unsuccessfully in his post above.

The original method that was developed through clinical trials by Kudrow uses the eyedropper and just pooling the liquid over that mass of nerves in the back of the sinus cavity (or the sphenopalatine ganglion if you prefer LOL)

Since then, seeing how the treatment was effective, to a point, for some people, others have tried to improve upon it...hence the Q-tips & gels that stay in place longer, and what poor Chris got...enough gauze to to make some really nice beach cover-ups ;-( up his nose.

IMHO, it is a worthwhile treatment to investigate for people (just like Superpain) that are looking for something to add to their arsenal. When there are more hits coming than treatments allowed, or where the treatments being used aren't quite doing the trick.

Be sure to get the 4% solution and not the weaker sister.

Bobw
Rocky Road Ice Cream or Lidocaine, whatever gets ya thru the day.

Title: Re: What's the word on lidocaine?
Post by vig on Mar 29^th, 2007, 6:50pm

I once, uh, dissolved some cocaine and put it in an eye dropper and used it during attacks, right into the eye, not the nose. It actually worked okay, but problems in my acquisition, financial, and legal departments kept me from furthering my experiments.

;;D

Title: Re: What's the word on licocaine?
Post by mynm156 on Mar 31^st, 2007, 3:34am

WOW IT RAMPED UP MY HITS LIKE GAS ON A FIRE!!!

Good Vibes

MYNM156