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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Oxygen is expensive?
        
(Message started by: downstairs on Jan 29th, 2007, 2:19pm)
Title: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by downstairs on Jan 29th, 2007, 2:19pm
So my neuro finally called me, as I've been bugging him to perscribe be oxygen.  He tells me Oxygen in the house is "very expensive" and "hard to get".

What's that about?  Is this true?

First of all, I do have insurance... I would assume it would be covered?

Secondly... how expensive could it be?  Wouldn't I be "renting" it in some way?

I know my Mom had it for emphysema... I'm going to ask her later today about it...

I'm becoming VERY frustrated.  I figured oxygen would be the simplest part of this whole deal... the drugs being the hard part.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by thomas on Jan 29th, 2007, 2:26pm
O2 companies don't pay kick backs.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by downstairs on Jan 29th, 2007, 2:29pm
So how expensive is it?
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by thomas on Jan 29th, 2007, 2:44pm
You may spend anywhere from 10-100.00 a month depending on your insurance and the home medical company that distributes it.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Karla on Jan 29th, 2007, 3:26pm
Yes it is rented monthly.  I got E tanks and a cart so I caould take my tank from home to work and church.  My insurance covered all but 10 a month.  I would talk to your insurance company and see if they cover it and to what amount and what your copay is.  Then talk to the oxygen company and find out how much they charge.  Then you will know if you can afford it or not.  
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by mcf69 on Jan 30th, 2007, 12:33am
How expensive is it?  One of the cheapest therapies available.  Look at the cost of imitrex and other meds used for the treatment/prevention of CH.  Plus it's one of the safest, most effective (for me anyway) treatments out there....
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by thebbz on Jan 30th, 2007, 2:56pm
It's alot cheaper than the ER visits it will save. Insurance companies do not have a code to cover o2 for CH therapy. That being said one needs to the doctor to fill out a need for medical nessacity.(sp) This is for the insurance company to waive the required blood gas testing. 02 is an abortive treatment for a medical emergency regarding CH. This will save them money, so once they realize this they pay for the 02. You have to enlighten them though. The compressed 02 in e-tanks is fairly cheap. The concentrators are very expensive and unreliable.
all the best
jb
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 30th, 2007, 3:38pm
it is a lot cheaper than a similarly number of aborts using Imitrex.

Let's say I use 6 "E" tanks during a cycle. Total cost is less than $100.00 and this would have ability to abort 30 hits. -- that's an average cost of less than $4 per cluster headache.

Then let's say my doctor wouldn't let me get O2 and instead prescribed 15 Imitrex Injector kits at $85 per set of 2, or $1,275. Beside the fact that insurance won't pay for that many in the period of a normal cycle, it is unrealistic to expect to be able to use 30 jabs for an intense cycle. That would be $42.50 per aborted headache. And the possibility that by ingesting this much Imitrex you may risk lengthening the cycle or suffering some type of side effect from the triptans.

This is but one reason that financial investment advisors will tell you that doctors are amongst their worst customers. For some reason they just can't seem to do this kind of math.

As for it being "hard to get". This means that the doctor will have to actually fax the prescription over to a local home oxygen company as opposed to simply writing you a prescription off ihs little pad, patting you on the butt and saying "see ya, good luck". It is not hard to get once you get that prescription.

Scott
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by BikerBob on Jan 30th, 2007, 4:07pm
Last time I was in cycle, my O2 supplier charged $13 per E tank + $10 pickup/delivery charge. I got 4 E tanks delivered at a time (next day delivery) when I needed refills.

Look in the Yellow Pages under Oxygen. Call your local O2 suppliers and ask for the cost of delivering 4 E tanks, a 15 lpm regulator and a non-rebreather mask. They may charge a small monthly fee for rental of the regulator. They'll sell you the non-rebreather mask for about $10. You'll need a script for O2 from a doc. Give them your insurance info and tell them to bill the insurance co.  My O2 supplier bills my Blue Shield insurance using procedure codes 99070 and E0431 and the insurance pays most of it.

It's a lot cheaper than any other abortive.

BB
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 30th, 2007, 7:08pm


Under medical supplies in the yellow pages look and see if   LINCARE  or APRIA   are listed for your area.

 Your Ins. should cover the regulator.  E-tanks are about 23.00 per tank.  I've never had Lincare charge me for delivery but since I was so close to where they are located I just go in and swap my bottles out.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by RichardN on Jan 30th, 2007, 8:33pm
 I pay $10 per "E" tank . . . . keep ten tanks on hand.  During "bad" weeks, will use 6-8 tanks per week.  When in my normal "mostly PF" times, I use 1-3 tanks  per week.

 I ordered my second regulator off ebay so could keep one in my van (plus extra E tanks) and one at the house.  After trying the Clustermasx about three months ago, and being VERY pleased with same,  I ordered another (came two weeks ago), so have two complete rigs.  I go NOWHERE without my 02.

 Be Safe,    PFDANs

   Richard
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by BIX on Feb 1st, 2007, 1:21pm
Oxygen is not expensive, I have had it for the last 7 years. Just get your doctor to give you a prescription for it, it is not a drug, and if he is giving you a hard time he does not understand cluster headaches. Oxygen is the only thing that takes my ha away. So here is how you get it.
Get a prescription
Contact a company called LINCARE ( they are nation wide you should be able to google them to find your closest location)
LINCARE has quite a few customers who have clusters.
They will be able to set up payment through your Insurance for home oxygen, portable tanks cost 8 dollars a peice, make sure you get a high-flow regulator
It is easy, and will make a world of difference.
I hope this works for you, I saw your post about industrial oxygen, DO NOT go that route, Industrial Oxygen is not clean, and can be infused with oil in their tanks, you do not want to breath that shit.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by vietvet2tours on Feb 1st, 2007, 2:39pm

on 02/01/07 at 13:21:20, BIX wrote:
 I   I saw your post about industrial oxygen, DO NOT go that route, Industrial Oxygen is not clean, and can be infused with oil in their tanks, you do not want to breath that shit.
Bullshit
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Wilbur on Feb 1st, 2007, 3:16pm
I can't speak for myself, but many people on this board report having used welder's oxygen for many years without any problems whatsoever.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by thebbz on Feb 1st, 2007, 3:41pm

Quote:
Posted by: vietvet2tours Posted on: Today at 11:39am
on Today at 10:21am, BIX wrote: I   I saw your post about industrial oxygen, DO NOT go that route, Industrial Oxygen is not clean, and can be infused with oil in their tanks, you do not want to breath that shit.


Bullshit

Ditto
all the best
jb
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by georgej on Feb 1st, 2007, 3:43pm
I suppose a person could pump it INTO a dirty tank, but it all comes from the same tank originally.  Medical oxygen, aviator's oxygen, and welder's oxygen.  

Just like milk--you may as well buy the stuff with the best date, generic or brand name, because it all gets pumped out of the same tank.

Best,

George
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by gonz2112 on Feb 1st, 2007, 9:11pm
I was able to get O2 through my insurance, but would have had to pay 30% out of pocket. They go through Apria Healthcare who I believe is nationwide. They were going to deliver an "M" tank w/a regulator and refill it as often as necessary. My cost was $135 per month. Not bad compared to $150 a week in Imitrex copays or $700 a week w/o insurance.

I opted to go somewhere else and with my own regulator they charge $50 per delivery of an "H" tank. When it is low they swap it out for $50. The "H" tank stands about 50" tall and is about 125 lbs. Not portable, but it will flow at 12 lpm for about 500 minutes. At 12 lpm the "M" tank flows for 250 mins and the "E" tank 25 mins. I got these numbers using this calculator: http://www.monroecc.edu/depts/pstc/backup/paraoxca.htm

At the worst case scenario - 20 mins per HA - it costs me $2.00 per headache. If I factor in the cost of the regulator and the % of times the HA's aren't aborted and consider that most abort in less than 20 mins it still costs me about  $2 - $3 per headache. Of course I figured all this out lying in bed at 2am trying not to fall asleep. :-/

Mark
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Wilbur on Feb 1st, 2007, 9:26pm
My insurance covers durable medical equipment (of which oxygen is a subset) at 100% with no deductible. For me it's free. All I do is call Apria and tell them how much I need whenever I need it.

This is what I call a true benefit, and I consider myself to be very, very fortunate.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by BIX on Feb 1st, 2007, 9:41pm

on 02/01/07 at 15:16:36, Wilbur wrote:
I can't speak for myself, but many people on this board report having used welder's oxygen for many years without any problems whatsoever.



sorry about the welders oxygen comment , I must have been misinformed, I was told by a doctor that was true when I was trying hard to get oxygen for myself, any ways it is not hard to get medical oxygen after you get a prescription, the company I referenced has always been very helpful to me, again sorry for the misinformation
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by thebbz on Feb 1st, 2007, 10:05pm
;)
No sweat Bix, get the medical stuff if you can. The other is the same stuff. I have been to the gass plant and observed tanks being filled from the same source. There are subtle differences in the bottle material and the supplier is subject to the FDA. Some suppliers are not.Most all are using the same concentrating and refining process.There are differences in the refining of pure 02 regarding microfiltering intake souces.There are other differences regarding inspections of bottles and suppliers as well.
jb
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by BikerBob on Feb 2nd, 2007, 2:35am

on 01/30/07 at 16:07:07, BikerBob wrote:
Look in the Yellow Pages under Oxygen. Call your local O2 suppliers and ask for the cost of delivering 4 E tanks, a 15 lpm regulator and a non-rebreather mask. They may charge a small monthly fee for rental of the regulator. They'll sell you the non-rebreather mask for about $10. You'll need a script for O2 from a doc. Give them your insurance info and tell them to bill the insurance co.  My O2 supplier bills my Blue Shield insurance using procedure codes 99070 and E0431 and the insurance pays most of it.

BB


I got a PM asking me a question about that post and I don't know the answer, so I'll open it for discussion here...


Quote:
My husband has started another bout with the CHs. Blue Cross/Blue Shield would not cover the cost of oxygen because Medicare turned down the claim because it is not for a respiratory condition. I see in your message BC/BS is paying for your oxygen......do you have medicare? If so how did you get around them.
Thanks in advance.


I don't have Medicare. My Blue Shield insurance covers O2 if the billing has the right procedure code. The procedure code is E0431

Read this webpage about the Healthcare Common Procedure Coding System (HCPCS)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_Procedure_Coding_System

Now, look at this page on procedure code E0431

http://www.hcpcsdata.com/2006/E/E0431.htm

2006 HCPCS E0431
   Portable gaseous oxygen system, rental; includes portable container, regulator, flowmeter, humidifier, cannula or mask, and tubing

   * Medicare coverage status: Special coverage instructions apply
   * HCPCS Coverage Issues Manual Reference Section Number: 60-4
   * HCPCS Medicare Carriers Manual Reference Section Number: 4107.9

I don't know about the "Medicare coverage status: Special coverage instructions apply". I would call the O2 supplier. They have experts on insurance billing. Ask the billing person of the O2 supplier about "HCPCS Medicare Carriers Manual Reference Section Number: 4107.9" Also ask the billing person about billing your Blue Shield using procedure code E0431.

BB
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Pellsey on Feb 2nd, 2007, 2:54am
G'day,

I know it makes no difference to the majority but i've just been able to get on to some O2 thanks to the advice of Barry T Coles (cheers mate) and it's relatively inexpensive to hire O2 here in Australia
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Feb 2nd, 2007, 8:34am
I may be cynical but I’d say your Nuro isn’t getting a kickback & trying to steer you to where he/she is.

Any medical professional worth their salt should know better.

Cheers
Barry
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by heprat on Feb 2nd, 2007, 9:49am
I just got a bill from Apria.  I'm paying $4 per month for the regulator and $5 per E-tank (22 cubic feet) and $6.50 for the M-tank (135 cubic feet).  I had to ask for the bigger tank and only did so because I got tired of swapping tanks in the middle of a hit.  They just assumed I wouldn't want the bigger tank.  

In the future I plan to request a M-tank plus 2 E-tanks as backup and "portable" use.  Apria usually will come the same or next day.  They also didn't mind when I took the empties to them and swapped for fulls.  Not recommended due to them being bulky and dangerous to transport yourself...but facing the alternative of a night without helped the decision.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Wilbur on Feb 2nd, 2007, 11:31am

on 02/02/07 at 09:49:28, heprat wrote:
Not recommended due to them being bulky and dangerous to transport yourself...

Bulky I can understand, but why do you call it dangerous? Unless you are transporting them through the 'hood and there are bullets flying everywhere... ;;D
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by kcopelin on Feb 2nd, 2007, 1:27pm
Well Wilbur, the VA warned me extensively about the dangers of O2-if you bust off the square thingy sticking out of the top (I swear that's how they said it) it turns the tank into a rocket.  Said you probably don't want to drive with it in your car because, hey, what if you are in an accident and that square thingy breaks off?  
They are very leery of O2 at the VA.  I finally got it after going through rigorous safety training.
Honestly, ::)

PFDAN y'all,
kathy
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by Jonny on Feb 2nd, 2007, 3:34pm
Somebody ought to tell all the scuba divers in the world that they are in real danger....LOL ;;D
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by georgej on Feb 2nd, 2007, 3:43pm

on 02/02/07 at 13:27:26, kcopelin wrote:
Said you probably don't want to drive with it in your car because, hey, what if you are in an accident and that square thingy breaks off?


The car itself is full of square thingies that can break off and kill you.  For that matter, there are square thingies everywhere that are just waiting to break off and kill you.  Nobody seems to worry too much about those.

Sheesh.   [smiley=laugh.gif]

Best,

George
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by BlackBuried on Feb 4th, 2007, 2:18pm
My insurance company (Unicare) charges a $2000 deductible.

So I went to the medical supply store and bought a portable setup for $250.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by heprat on Feb 5th, 2007, 1:28pm

on 02/02/07 at 11:31:03, Wilbur wrote:
Bulky I can understand, but why do you call it dangerous? Unless you are transporting them through the 'hood and there are bullets flying everywhere... ;;D


I think of them being dangerous if someone doesn't secure them well...but that goes for any sort of cargo in a vehicle.  I guess if there was an accident and a fire the O2 would be dangerous.  I will do it again if needed.  Just be careful and secure them well if you do.
Title: Re: Oxygen is expensive?
Post by RichardN on Feb 5th, 2007, 10:59pm
 Had to reply to the scuba remark.  Used to be in the scuba business . . .  and that was always a safety issue.  Most scuba valves were chrome plated brass, and brass being a fairly soft metal could crack/break and indeed cause the tank (usually at 2250 psi +) to become a rocket.

 Mythbusters did a show on this I happened to see a couple of weeks ago . . . the valve was knocked off and the cylinder accelerated and went all the way through one concrete block wall and half-way through another.

 When I was in business, I also heard of valves blowing out (there were some tanks at the time that were fitted with 1/2 pipe threads (tapered) which were quite dangerous).  Now, all those valves are 3/4' straight threads . . . so that's not a problem.

 Transporting welding cylinders is not dangerous a long as you make sure to screw the (steel) valve cover/cap on the tank to protect the valve.  Oh . . .  and you don't drop one on your foot.

 I'd be curious to know whether medical 02 tanks have stainless steel valves.

 Be Safe,   PFDANs

    Richard


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