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Title: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:14pm I tried posting this before, but my fingers hit a bunch of buttons and it disappeared. If you get a message from me, just ignore it! I have tried Cranio sacral (sp?) twice now, with two different therapists. This is when they touch you and "read" your vibrations to "talk" to your body and find out what is wrong. I know it sounds wacky, but, hey, during a cycle I will try anything. Both of the therapists said that each side of my brain (the energy, that is) was rotating in different directions and this is what was causing my CH. I still have no idea what use that information is, but there you have it. Counter-rotating brain energy. Either that or the hypothalamus thing. Or the eyebrow thing. I still think we have to all get research grants and just pick a theory. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Jonny on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:27pm on 01/09/07 at 16:14:08, peacestock wrote:
LMMFAO!!!!! [smiley=laugh.gif] Thats a new one on me and ive been here everyday since 1999....LMAO ;;D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by brewcrew on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:31pm It depends whether your brain is north or south of the equator. The old cyclone/anticyclone thing. Now, if you could position the center of your head directly on the equator you might be able to stop the voices inside. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:36pm yup, sounds wacky. i read up on craniosacral therapy, and then i stopped reading. jonny, maybe you could get paid for simply waving the welding rod over the metal, not actually welding but in effect sensing the energy which is part of the metal and the rod, and then letting them know that they are congruous, and ship it to the customer. yup, wacky. scott |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:42pm Rofl! *snort!* I really gotta try the equator thing. Great excuse for a trip. I wonder if I go to Australia if my head will hurt on the other side....hmmmm... At least that would even out my lopesided eyebrows. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9th, 2007, 4:43pm on 01/09/07 at 16:14:08, peacestock wrote:
"Anything" seems to encompass a huge arena it seems, lots of times, out of the ballpark. Quote:
I would have never guessed there could be more than one. In the anything world though... |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 9th, 2007, 5:41pm Interesting. I have a childhood friend who has become a cranial sacral therapist here in Calgary. I wonder if it's the same gal? If so, I know her very well and trust her implicity. I even took my daughter to her years ago and, honest to God, she did "cure" her problem at the time. I did talk to her about cluster and she said she'd try to help my hubby but didn't think she would be able to do much, since it is widely believed to be a physical birth defect of sorts, rather than an energy problem. We never did pursue it. My friend's first name is Katie and she lived just off Centre Street North. Is she one of the therapists you went to? There's a lot to be said for cranial sacral therapy, I think - and I find that fascinating about the energy observation. You don't mention if you were able to find any relief - I assume not? Every little thing we learn about cluster helps in the long run to understanding it all and, hopefully, will someday lead us to a cure. I'm sure once the scientists in this crowd get ahold of this observation they will run with it.....Floridian? LeeS? BobP? Pinkfloyd? Anyone? |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9th, 2007, 6:16pm I must have been hasty in believing the opinion of the British Columbia Office of Health Technology Assessment (BCOHTA) and their 68 page report. Quote:
and also: Quote:
Quote:
further reading: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cranial.html Although his brochures give a different opinion. Today's leading proponent is John Upledger, DO, who operates the Upledger Institute of Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:06pm Geez, Kevin. Bet you are NO fun at all at parties. You must love pissing on parades, eh? BTW, you haven't put any quotes from the number of studies they have done on the placebo effect that has actually produced positive outcomes. Or hypnosis, or "faith healing". All it takes for these things to work is a belief in it. Margi - I don't remember her first name, but her last name was Mustard (like the condiment) and she is in Beddington. No, she didn't help at all, but I did feel things when she worked on me. She would touch my feet and my ears would burn. Crazy stuff. Very cool. I believe strongly in the fact that if a person believes strongly enough in something, it will work. If you don't believe in it, you can disprove it. It's all mind over matter. Placebo studies have shown that time and again. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by taraann on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:10pm Hah! I like that better than the constant insistance from my mother in law that I ALWAYS have a sinus infection. It's a more exotic explanation lol. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:11pm on 01/09/07 at 19:06:07, peacestock wrote:
I'm sure there are a huge amount of sites which cite John Upledger with which you will find consensus with. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Jonny on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:18pm on 01/09/07 at 19:06:07, peacestock wrote:
ROTFF!!!!.....This thread just gets better....LMAO ;;D Think your pain away?......LOL [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Salvelinus on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:21pm I'm a PT, and though I don't use it, I've worked with other therapists who use craniosacral therapy. I've also had it done on me, and believe it or not, it did give me my first remission in about 10 years of chronic clusters. Now, maybe my cycle was going to end anyway . . . I'll never know. I do know that a different therapist tried it on me during a later cycle and it did nothing. I do want to clear something up, though. It isn't "brain energy" they are feeling, it is a supposed "flow of cerebrospinal fluid" which causes a rhythmic movement in the skull and spinal bones. I've never been able to felt it in others, but there have been a few times I've felt it in myself. It's a rhythm slower than my heartbeat, and faster than my breathing. I've hard some amazing anecdotal evidence by therapists who I trust. I don't know of any empirical evidence out there (Kevin has shown some opinions, but I'd want to see the actual studies myself--not to discredit the authors of those opinions in any way), and like I said, I've never used it. But I know that there are a lot of interventions I use every day in my practice that WORK, but that don't have any evidence to back them up. We are trying to change that, but there are some things that will never be able to be studied scientifically due to the nature of the treatment, the nature of the disease, or to the need to just get our patients better rather than making them suffer any more. Anyway, that's my take. :) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:26pm Yeah, yeah...ok, Jonny, point taken. However, I do find some comfort in deep breathing (diaphramatic breathing) during a hit. I am dealing with easy k7 these days. Have had K10 that I would NEVER be able to breath through. I am lucky if I KEEP breathing. Shoot, I would try a watermelon up my nose if someone said it MAY work. But probably not a pinapple up my ass...I have to draw the line somewhere!! Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 9th, 2007, 7:57pm on 01/09/07 at 19:21:55, Salvelinus wrote:
I don't have the interest to pursue it further. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9806622&dopt=Abstract Quote:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2173359&dopt=Abstract Quote:
http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/gallagher.html Barrett S. Bizarre therapy leads to patient's death. Chirobase, July 7, 2003. Quote:
And I suppose the 68 page report from British Columbia which concluded "invalid" was simply a batch of opinions, as well as the University of New England College of Osteopathic Medicine study and noted corraborated finded with previous studies. Experiment with mind over matter on diareah. John Upledger's Institute puts out a lot you can freely google, his literature may be best for agreeable opinions. Being there is even mention of it applied to children with autism, I would highly suggest reading Simon Barron-Cohen's opinion first rather than John Upledger. on 01/09/07 at 19:06:07, peacestock wrote:
If to you partying means your discussing this, then I guess no, since I wouldn't be able to get drunk enough, but maybe I'd be able to change the subject. :) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 9th, 2007, 8:05pm :-X |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:18am Kevin, I don't doubt for a moment the validity of any number of papers written, lectures given, that state that craniosacral is bullshit. I am sure you could quote them all for hours. I am merely saying that for every person, paper, lecture, idea to disprove a theory, there is an equal number of people, papers, lectures and ideas to support it. That is why I am neither impressed nor disappointed at any of the quotes you have provided. I think I would, however, be more interested in your opinion had you actually attempted such things yourself and not rely on someone else to tell you what to think. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:55am Ok, I'll say a few words and some of you know how difficult THAT is for me. ;;D 1. Upledger is a danger to human health. 2. There is a debate as to whether or not there is actually a placebo effect when it concerns clusters. Some studies show there is no placebo effect in cluster trials. When testing new drugs, for instance, the placebo group often shows such a small "effective" outcome, that the number is assumed to be just that a few people went into remission during the treatment. JMHO :) Others claim there is a small placebo effect and double blind trials for clusters NEED to continue having a placebo arm. Its still up in the air but I think that if anyone shows a placebo effect, they are in a very mild cycle and just the change of scenery, diet, travel, overall change in daily routine, change in regular medication regimen (stopping triptans to enter the trial, for example???) might give a few people a short break. Add to that a couple spontaneous remissions and you have a placebo group. 3. Diaphramatic breathing is NOT a placebo and there are reasons that it can and does help. 4. I tried CS once. Not because I wanted to, or paid for it. I go for massage therapy for my back and hip. My therapist had just come back from a class on CS and wanted to try it on me....she was so excited, I said uuumm...ok) I had a headache in 3 minutes. 5. I believe that most of the times we change to a new med, and we get excited because it seems to be "working" in the beginning...and then stops, (is there anyone here that hasn't experienced that?) that this is not a placebo effect, but the change in medication. Any change, that just takes some time for the body to get used to having it in the system and dealing with it....and then getting back to the task at hand.....of beating our heads in, from the inside out. I don't think those medications EVER had a direct effect on the clusters. They just had an brief effect on the overall neurological system. Sort of like throwing a steak into a pen of barking pit bulls. Once the steak is gone...look out, here they come again. 6. In case you've forgotten number 1. Upledger is a danger to human health. I knew I couldn't do just a few words..damn it. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:51am on 01/10/07 at 01:18:47, peacestock wrote:
I have been repeatedly referring to the many sites which quote from John Upledger, his book, and teachings. Quote:
Ok. I will say that Bob's point 5 was a thought which I would not have described as well but will assent being of a similar opinion concerning CH, of course inclusive the sentence regarding "direct effect on the clusters." That is why I would not have "attempted such things". |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by tommyD on Jan 10th, 2007, 7:07am Quote:
More rain on your parade, I’m afraid. It is NOT true that for every paper against there is one for. This is the fallacy of “balance” that Fox News claims makes their news “fair.” But “balanced” is not the same as “objective” or “unbiased,” and it has nothing at all to do with “accurate.” The “Hitler example,” for example. With the “balanced” philosophy, a supporter of Adolph Hitler could argue that his hero loved children, only wanted to conquer the world to save it, and would never kill all those millions in concentration camps, because that would be inefficient. And that Hitler lover’s lies would be given the same weight as a respected historian with a library full of evidence. (Actually, there IS evidence Hitler loved children, but that is irrelevant to the fact of the Holocaust.) If there is an inconvenient truth, such as “CS therapy is not effective,” and a there is valid, peer-reviewed reseache showing that, then merely claiming that someone else says CS does work is not enough to claim it’s an open question. Sometimes, of course, it might BE an open question. And this is why you see research papers that review a number of other research papers to determine a consensus or a valid non-consensus. Bullshit studies will often not survive this process, if they even get so far as to be included. And of course, one must back up one’s statements - if there are an equal number in support, show us the citations. Quote:
You know, I have discovered the sun revolves around the Earth. It must! I don’t care what the science books say, I just saw it coming up over the horizon, flying east to west! -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 10th, 2007, 7:48am Peacestock I like the idea that my brain vibrates and that someone else can "feel" it and give me relief. I like it.... But it's crap! I also like the idea that you are still idealistic enough to think there is an easy, drug/substance free answer that we have all missed, however desperate or placebo susceptible we may be. I like it.... But it's crap! Sorry :-/ Wendy |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by swimchica623 on Jan 10th, 2007, 8:24am hey now give me a little credit i didnt say that fuzzy eyebrows CAUSED my CH i just said there was a bit more hair there coming out of a cycle than normal..... but then we deduced that i was just getting in touch with my inner cragno-man. [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] and ooooomg how did it take me so long to realize there was someone with the username pinkfloyd on the board??? :-D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 8:52am on 01/09/07 at 19:06:07, peacestock wrote:
on 01/10/07 at 01:18:47, peacestock wrote:
I guess I didn't highlight quite enough for you, hoping you were actually reading the, as tommy put it, "inconvenient truth", but since you replied twice with the above quotes... Quote:
Feel free to ponder why that may be, the important point being the word "properly". Whereas I noted 7 studies identifying claims of effectiveness, importantly, the review of "research quality" was an overriding factor, with comments particular to Upledger's findings stating "no method of statistical analysis to support his claim", "not repeated or confirmed by other researchers in 20 years." on 01/10/07 at 07:07:37, tommyD wrote:
And there does not seem to be anywhere near an equal number in support, outside of Upledger's site. Again, for simple agreement in thought, there are many, many sites, in fact, an "overbalanced" amount citing John Upledger that would be more suitable for continuing your parade, and the postpartying on the subject. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 11:25am on 01/10/07 at 08:24:26, swimchica623 wrote:
That's cro-magnon, but I won't hold it against you as you haven't yet graduated. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:30pm I have no experience with cranio-sacral therapies. I don't trust quackwatch or their affiliated chirobase website. They argue that chiropractic has no value whatsoever, when a number of studies have found that chiropractic is an efficacious, reasonably safe, cost effective treatment for back and neck conditions. Quackwatch is also virulently opposed to yoga, massage and other therapies which have proven themselves useful for some medical conditions - as witnessed in this point countrpoint that can be found on the quackwatch. Quote:
Never mind the fact that yoga can help with back problems, blood pressure, and autonomic nervous problems - some yoga practices make references to 'chi' or 'prana' and other mumbo-jumbo, ergo, to QW they are anti-scientific. The fact that tai-chi has been shown to improve balance and exercise tolerance in the elderly can't possibly benefit health - they keep talking about chi, which is imaginary!! In addition to getting caught up by any foreign language or metaphors, quackwatch tends to commit errors of faulty generalization - ie, the demonstratable fact that some alternative practioners are hucksters is extended to the entire group ... Of course, when it comes to incompetent doctors that cut off the wrong limb, no such errors are made ... Quackwatch believes that only a few doctors are incompetent, and the others do a good job of policing them. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by UN solved on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:40pm Does this therapy come with a tin foil hat ? And, is there peanut butter involved ? Inquiring minds want to know. UNsolved |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:45pm on 01/10/07 at 13:30:22, floridian wrote:
And the shame of it is that there never seems to be a reputable source of TRUTH. If you listen to some practitioners of Chiropractic they will claim that they can cure everything from Psoriasis to Cluster Headache, when the TRUTH is probably closer to your statement Jonathan - they offer an efficacious, reasonably safe, cost effective treatment for back and neck conditions. I love Yoga and have experienced the positive results of it. But, they don't make Yoga pills, nor does it test our very well in versus a placebo exercise. So, we're reliant upon finding reputable "truth-tellers" which is largely why I spend time on this site. Scott |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:46pm on 01/10/07 at 13:30:22, floridian wrote:
Yeah, I look for biases too. Here's the abstract from the British Columbia study mentioned: http://www.chspr.ubc.ca/bcohta/docs/bco99-16R_abstract_cranio.htm Quote:
I've read the entire 68 page report, but it's not that long, references start at page 57, plenty to keep one preoccupied. Thirty-four studies were examined, seemed a fair assessment. This is also from the University of New England: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1564028 Quote:
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:57pm Laff! Ok, you guys have got me pegged wrong. I never said the CS shit worked. It did nothing for me. SHE was the one that said my brain was revolving oddly. I think she was revolving oddly. I worked in medicine for many years and I do know that logically there isn't always a balance to studies and theories. However, I feel I have to defend alternative medicine for those who believe it works. I suffer from (or rather enjoy) OCD and it is an entire illness comprised of illogical beliefs that work for me. Or rather don't work for me, thus the term "illness". And lastly I feel I must state for the record that nothing (yet) works for my CH and never has. Just had one this morning and was unable to get children off to school and now I am stuck with them all day, thus causing a whole different type of headache. I am not so foolish to think a cure will magically fall into anyone's lap. Oh, I said lastly, but this will be lastly. I didn't say that diaphramtic breathing was a "placebo" and I do understand why it works. I think there is an added O2 bonus with diaphramtic breathing as well. It doesn't get rid of my headaches, but it keeps me calm and makes me feel like I am doing something rather than just lying there being beaten. ...and isn't that what in some ways we are looking for? Not to feel helpless and defeated? If all I can do to feel in control of my own CH is to breath deeply, or chant, or scream, or go seek out some bizarre form of alternative medicine, then that is what I will do. And yes, it's crap. *This Alan Alda moment was brought to you by:* Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:03pm You go girl :) There have been naysayers about anything "different" since time began and that fact will never change. Consider the theory that the world was flat and Mr. Columbus was told he would fall off if he sailed off into the sunset. There is a place for CS in our modern day world, just as there is for chiropractic, tai chi, and howling at the full moon. I still think the brain rotating thingy is cool. Hope you get through your day today and are able to stay inside with your kids without losing your mind. Can't send 'em outside either, you poor thing. It's just too bitchin cold out there!! But hey - our Flames won last night, Kipper got a shut out, and even though it wasn't pretty - we still did it without IGGY! Rock on, Peacestock - hope you find some smiles today. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:25pm on 01/10/07 at 13:57:11, peacestock wrote:
Or perhaps you have us pegged wrong. Some people here wish to prevent others from wasting money "trying anything" like you did, to hear said to them: Quote:
And I find it curious you would find my opinions more interesting if I were to have followed your footsteps here, or been in your shoes wasting time and money with this while in cycle when it obviously does not work for CH. on 01/10/07 at 01:18:47, peacestock wrote:
Especially after remarking: on 01/10/07 at 13:57:11, peacestock wrote:
In what ways, if I "attempted such things" as what you have thought to brought up here on this "treatments" board, would it have helped with this? on 01/10/07 at 13:57:11, peacestock wrote:
Quote:
Oh, I see. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:47pm Respectfully, Kevin, I gotta jerk your chain a lil bit here. I don't see where she was trying to book anyone an appointment with a cranio sacral therapist. I think that she was more interested in pointing out that CHer's brains may be revolving in a funky manner. That thought (with our collective knowledge about cause of cluster here) made me realize that this one little theory that she brought to us could be yet another thing we could add to our list of the wild and wacky things our hippothingamajiggies control. I think that was more her point than trying to solicit biz for a CS therapist. Go easy on her - she's new here. She's from my home town, too. All Calgarians are cool, man - haven't you realized that yet? :) edited for spelling because apparently MY brain is rotating in a funky manner too. ::) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:01pm hey if you're going to defend a fellow Calgarian then I'll defend my fellow Detroiter -- after all Detroit's a nice town. Kevin's point is a good one -- the frequent response to those who talk about alternatives is that it is simply wrong to ever criticize something that works for some wacko's up in the woods in British Columbia, or some enlightened ones in Berkeley, CA. Criticize it in any way and the response is, "how can you criticize it unless you've tried it?" --or the unspoken, I'd respect your opinion more if it wasn't coming from such a closed minded prig. Yet, the alternative people can jump all over any thing that comes in a package with the name of a pharmaceutical company - why? because it is made by the evil pharmaceutical company. It often appears the open mind often has difficulty distinguishing between the thinking out of the box and realizing that a lot of info has been stored up in boxes that is of great help. Scott ps. peace seems to have what it takes to stick around here along with a sense of humor. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:03pm No harm to me Margi, soliciting anything was never a point. Quote:
I liked tommy's "sun revolves around the earth" better. ;) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:57pm I think any healthy debate about the stuff that is out there is great. It is only ignorance that we should be afraid of. My point was initially to share something I had tried that some people have not, and to, yes, poke fun at some of the things people will try in order to find relief. It didn't work for me, but it may work for someone else. Wouldn't it be awful if one person on here said "O2 doesn't work for me" and because of that no one else bothered to try it? One thing I have learned so far on here (hasn't even been a week! Sheesh!) is that what works for one person may not work for another, but we all gotta keep looking for ourselves. I wouldn't say it was a waste of money because it did add to my experiences in life and it was sort of cool. Kevin, if you were my accountant, you could lecture me on how I spend my money, otherwise you just have to lump it. Unless you do wanna be my accountant. I am looking for someone (hint, hint). Oh, and also to Kevin, a lot of what I say is tounge in cheek. I realize my sense of humour is rather dry (rather!) and I would hate to think you would take me too seriously. Especially when I said I would stuff a watermelon up my nose if that would work. I was really glad to see that you didn't quote that or I would have looked foolish! ("foolish" should read: "more foolish") To Scott: You rock, man! But Detroit scares me a little. Ok, a LOT. To Margi: You rock even harder! ;;D And the sun does revolve around me. Just ask my mommy! Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:02pm Wait. Are you saying you WON'T shove a watermelon up your nose, then? Well, jeez.....and you call yourself a clusterhead? Just my luck to FINALLY find a fellow Calgarian on here and she turns out to be a chicken. Oh, woe is me. And, hey, Scott? Puddemup. I's born in the woods of British Columbia, man. We's not ALL wackos. (Actually, I believe the proper spelling of that word would be "wackoes".) ;) back atcha Kevin. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:15pm on 01/10/07 at 15:57:35, peacestock wrote:
I didn't see your end of a debate here. Quote:
I think it should be confronted, when it comes to CH. Quote:
At what point in this two-page thread did you intend to divulge your intentions? After the "rather enjoy" OCD part? Quote:
Or was this your intention of posting this? I'm confused as to the "enjoyment" thing and the "helping" thing. How "well intended" and "heartfelt toward others" was this thread, really? Quote:
You gravely underestimate people here. Quote:
I guess it could be possible I care shitless about you, but am concerned for others here. We have to consider all possibilities and other people's well being. Quote:
Tongue in cheek is readily discernable, two pages and this length of time fooling around on a treatments board is "enjoying" OCD, I guess. Quote:
I'm still looking for this "alleged" sense of humor. It seems tommy got it across quick in one post. Is there a punchline here yet to come? Quote:
Now is this humor? Credibility could a factor in what you say, you know, because of the "enjoy" OCD thing. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:39pm Oh Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. You just have to say "I don't know what OCD is" and I will tell you. It's alright if you don't find me funny. Not everyone has an advanced sense of humour. I didn't realize that every post on here must be backup with hardcore scientific facts. I thought I remembered seeing where is said that this was a place to commisserate and share our experiences. I was sharing an experience. I will remember in the future that only experiences first approved by Kevin may be posted on this site. I don't under estimate anyone on here. You are doing that by claiming that my anecdote about going to a CS therapist is going to cause people to suddenly run out and spend their money on doing the same. Or that by my stating that it didn't work for me is going to cause someone to NOT go. I think you should give your friends on here a little more credit. Not every debate comes to a logical conclusion, especially when the two sides are so subjective and ambiguous, but you can keep debating till you win if you want. Oh, and I am sorry to hear that you "care shitless" for me, cuz I am starting to get quite the crush on you, sweet cheeks. ;) Peacestock BTW, OCD means Obsessive Complusive Disorder. You can google it and learn something new today. :) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:40pm Margi, I don't even think watermelons are in season up here, but if I have to put my watermelon where my nose is to prove my committment to finding relief, then by Gawd I will do it! ...only the seedless variety, though. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:54pm well, alrighty then. I shall erase you from My List (since you're new, I'll explain: My List is not a desirable place to be...). I only had you on there in pencil anyway. ;) Scott (seasonalbloomer) and Kevin are on there in pen though - Scott was first and I only just put Kevin on there today because I think maybe all he got for Christmas was crap and he's still ticked about it. Scott's been on there since Day 1 because he can really be a twerp at times. although I must note that I think you would be considered MORE courageous if you did try the seedful variety. I think you can get them at Superstore right now. But you'll most probably - and you should pardon the expression - pay through the nose this time of year. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by UN solved on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:57pm on 01/10/07 at 16:39:01, peacestock wrote:
I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! I know what it is ! UNsolved ;) jk |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by artonio7 on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:10pm on 01/10/07 at 16:57:44, UN solved wrote:
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:23pm on 01/10/07 at 16:39:01, peacestock wrote:
Why would I care to know on a CH site? Quote:
Yup, but advancing to where? OCD "enjoyment"? Sorry, I don't have it. Quote:
I was wondering why your "sharing" didn't include "I think it was crap" in the first post? Guess I missed the humor again, and leaving the belief of "well intended" more than ambiguous. Quote:
I never implicated any such thing. I simply posted negative reviews about it, for everyone to see and its overwhelming inappropriateness for CH, which you chose to leave ambiguous until your "enjoyment" was had on a CH "treatments" board. The wasting of money and time was your decision, the reviews concerning about it though disturbing for others to venture. Quote:
The logical conclusion seems to be your OCD "enjoyment". I didn't see anything "ambiguous" about what I read concerning your topic. The ambiguousness was your stating you think it crap on page two. Quote:
Like you're the first to introduce me. Again, read my first reply on this post. It's good you shared this affliction with us though, that I give you credit for. However, the mystery was a short one, really. Are you getting to this advanced humor punchline yet? |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:26pm ROFLMAO at unsolved! [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 12:22am rofl @ unsolved!!! I usually type I have ocd ocd ocd ocd ocd ocd...but I think your post was even more effective. Kevin raises a good point: why would anyone want to know about ocd on a ch board? Well, interestingly enough, they are both neurological disorders and they effect and affect the same parts of the brain and both impair serotonin production. Just call me Cliff Claven. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by LeeS on Jan 11th, 2007, 5:17am Welcome Peacestock Two birds with one stone? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6210694.stm -Lee |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:57am on 01/11/07 at 00:22:55, peacestock wrote:
I see you conveniently changed again now, for your OCD enjoyment, because previously I said only I was uninterested, now you ask why anyone would want to know. Quote:
I'm sure somebody would, but I seem to still not find it a concern. Quote:
You know though, with this news, I would think you would be making this OCD/Cluster observation known on ALL the OCD message boards also. They could certainly be very, VERY interested in this. And I see Lee has quite well improved on your other "try anything" treatment. And I hear mushrooms work EVEN IF you don't have OCD. Your commendable bravery to finally tell us you thought the topic here was crap, and sacrifice of your own OCD enjoyment by cutting short your playtime instead of letting it go onnnn and onnnn, but only after reading all the links posted and THEN deciding to tell us you think it's crap TOO instead of in the first post, is funny. What did you call that, "advanced humor"? |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 2:57pm Lee, Thanks for the link. Interesting, however it's rather frightening. If one is already not in control of one's mind, adding hallucinogens MIGHT not be the best idea. Of course there are so many levels of OCD. I truly hope the Kevin finds something to help with his obsession with me and my OCD. I will be praying for you, Kevin. I hope you get the help you need for your OCD. ...Or is it your illusions of grandure? Either way, get well soon. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 11th, 2007, 3:16pm Hey Peace:) the dosages for this alternative treatment is sub-hallucinogenic, no control is lost. There is a whole bunch of info contained here at: http://www.clusterbusters.com . These folks work tirelessly to enhance and update their research and, honestly, it is the treatment that holds the most promise so far. The success stories far outweigh the failures and there is even an upcoming study being done at Harvard on this treatment. At present, the "seeds" route seems to be the one most travelled as it does have the lowest incidence of any side effects from dosing (i.e. no "buzz"). Remember, leave no stone unturned, right? You shoulda seen the treatment the guy got that brought this idea to us originally! You think YOU'VE been raked over the coals about the CS (even though you weren't offering it as a cure)? Poor "Flash" was nearly burned at the stake! :o He's still cluster free though - most of the "busters" are. Food for thought, anyway. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 3:27pm Margi, For CH, I think everything should be tried as long as it "does no harm". But for the OCD, I don't think the same is true. I was refering to the link that Lee sent me which talks about using "drugs" for OCD patients. That frightens me. Hell, I am still willing to do the watermelon up the nose if it works. I am surprised at the number of private e-mails from people who have tried all sorts of alternative medicines, but they are too afraid to admit it in "public" because of the backlash I got. I think it takes true bravery to try something that you know people are going think is crazy. No stone unturned is right. :) Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 11th, 2007, 3:39pm fair enough, but we've yet to hear of a clusterhead truly harmed by the alternatives. Actually, the opposite is more often true. Yet we hear thousands of stories of permanent damage being done by prescription meds. Liver damage, kidney damage, chemical dependancy on anti-depressants or worse, etc... I would think the fact that folks who've tried the alternatives and are shy about talking about it publically is also (or maybe more?) because of the illegality of same. Seriously, you should check out the clusterbuster site. No, I'm not trying to be a "pusher", I've just seen hundreds of clusterheads helped by this method (my hubby included for awhile) and so many more HURT by the conventional treatments. The alternatives were put here on earth for a reason - the man-made stuff came later. There is very little occurance of cluster in cultures who do commonly use these "illegal" alternatives (i.e. native Indians, Asians). That's gotta count for something. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 11th, 2007, 3:54pm So let me get this straight. Much of your point was to: Quote:
So your point was to poke fun at yourself? Because you proclaimed to already knew: Quote:
But then proceeded to laugh at us, considering it "advanced humor" Quote:
It is a strange desire. Quote:
May I return the thought. Quote:
And with other afflictions :) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 4:08pm Amen, sister! Actually, Eastern medicine has a long history, much longer than Western medicine. And the holistic approach is just to logically better. So many of our medical problems are linked together and the body must be treated as a whole entity. Otherwise we are just putting bandaids on the most obvious wounds, but not healing the REAL problem. I also agree with you about perscription drugs. They are really hard on the body and all the organs. I have seen people end up on 4 or 5 meds for just one problem. 1 pill for the problem and the other 3 or 4 to combat all the side effects. I feel for the Americans with the shoddy healthcare system. Here we can go to the doctor every day if need be and try as many drugs as possible without going bankrupt. I wonder if we have more access to alternative medicines as well (?). And let's not even get started on medicinal marijuana which has been shown to reduce the effects of MS among a hundred other problems. ...and we have Timmy's large doube-doubles up here. What more could we ask for? (actually, I usually get a triple-triple!) Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 11th, 2007, 4:34pm on 01/11/07 at 16:08:47, peacestock wrote:
Hey peace, I don't mean to constantly be giving you shit but your last post is so full of overgeneralizations and typical "new-age" misinformation that you lose sight of the fact that the only verifiably true statement you made was the fact that Tim Horton's sells coffee in Canada. Just because a pharmaceutical company made it doesn't make it inherently bad. Does everything they make do good -- probably not. But a lot of what they make saves or extends lives EVERY DAY. If I cut my finger -- I can simply place a band=aid on it with a little bactine and and it will get better. I don't need a holistic remedy to do that. And there are plenty of other treatments for a wide variety of ailments that do not need "holistic remedies". Let's not go there on Canada vs the US on healthcare...... I've got relatives in Canada and they ain't too pleased about the time it takes to see someone versus their ability to get right in and get something taken care of in the US. You pay for your system just like americans pay for insurance to have the access they pay for dearly. And finally before you brand me a reactionary stick in the mud -- I'm a yoga loving, kudzu trying, O2 living by, Red Bull drinking, herbal tea kind of guy, with an open mind -- but not so open that the wind just whips through. ;) Scott |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 11th, 2007, 4:53pm *gasp* I'm actually about to agree with Mr. Open Mind here... Peace's post may be a wee bit misleading for those not familiar with our system so, just to clarify for those who don't understand how it works in Canada ...No, we don't pay for office visits to our doctors here in Canada and we CAN actually walk in off the street to see a GP without an appointment or cost. It doesn't cost us anything for surgeries or to have babies delivered. Each of our provinces have a provincial health care plan that most of our employers pay for. If they don't, the province that Peace and I live in (for example) - this monthly cost is $44 for a single, $88 for a family. It's affordable, in other words and there are government subsidies available for low income families. Some provinces are more, some less - but none without cost anymore. We can NOT just walk in to see any specialists or to get an MRI or ultrasound - this is where the waiting line comes in to play. We've had folks die undiagnosed while waiting for their turn. There are very few docs taking new patients here anymore, a big reason why our emergency rooms are overcrowded. We've had a couple of horror stories here in Calgary of women losing babies while waiting to be seen by a doc in an emergency room. We have walk-in clinics for non-life-threatening emergencies and there are some multi-hour waits there too. But to see a neuro, for example, can sometime take up to a year to get in (unless you play the panic card and steamroll the receptionist). Most employers offer benefits for dental care, prescription meds, vision, etc. - just like in the States. Our meds are not free, nor are they cheap. We certainly do NOT get the cheap "online" prices at our drugstores! If we do have an employer who pays these premiums (mine is about $375 per month), we can get a drug card that we present at the pharmacy that will cover the cost of meds entirely, or at least a percentage of them. 6 imitrex sprays cost $175 and our insurance companies try to limit how many we get in a month, just like the U.S. If you don't have benefit coverage through an employer, you do pay full price for meds here. Our prices are based on US pricing as well, so it's honestly not any cheaper. Just wanted to clear that up. Peace is completely right about Timmy's though. They have new breakfast sammiches that are kicking McD's butt too. I doubt I'll ever bother with an egg McYuckin again! |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:05pm Sorry for the over generaliztions. I just assumed that people would be smart enough to know that a) not all pharmacuticals are bad and that b) if they cut their finger, a band-aid would in fact be what they are looking for and not need holistic medicine. I never, however, would have thought of Eastern medicine and "new age", considering the fact that it's pretty darn "old". My bad for those assumptions. Would you also like me to use smaller words, or are you ok with the ones I am using? :-* ;;D Peacestock P.S. Yes, it takes a long time to see a specialist, but I couldn't afford it any other way. Two tiered healthcare may be the way to go for both countries. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:14pm I tried staying out of this thread but just couldn't. :-/ How do you know U.S. medical is so bad. I only pay $20 each time to see a Dr. and use one of the best hospitals in the U.S. for $250.00 annual copay. It must not be as good as yours though. What have you tried for CH's ? You haven't mentioned anything except having a lady wave her hand over your head to make your CH's dissapear. You say you are willing to try anything including pineapples up your ass & watermelon up your nose, but you won't try CH meds ? You won't try 'drugs" or alternatives ? Have you ever tried 02, prevents, verapmil, any abortives ? Have you been diagnosed with CH's ? Wow this thread is confusing. Good luck with whatever it is your looking for. By the way, there's tons of medical info (much of which actually works on CH's) right here on this board if you take time to read it. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:22pm I may be breaking ettiquette by posting twice in a row, but Margi's statement got me thinking and I just had to respond. Yes, people have died waiting to see a specialist or to get a test done. But I wouldn't even want to compare the stats on the number of people who have died because they simply couldn't afford to see a GP, let alone afford a specialist or to get a test done. Neither system is perfect, that is for damn sure. I never intended to say the the American system is crap. Nope, there is a hell of a lot of good in it and some of the best doctor's go down to the states. But if given the choice between the two, I would have to (read HAVE TO) go with the one I could afford. Now this is the part where I sit back and watch Kevin quote the parts that he doesn't like, making it look like I said something else because he takes it out of context and where all the newbie bashers come and take a whack at me. Enjoy! ;;D Next, I will post why I think puppies should all be killed and why babies are really ugly and not "cute" like everyone professes and why I think men are better drivers. Might as well piss everyone off at once (smirk). Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Jonny on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:32pm on 01/11/07 at 18:22:56, peacestock wrote:
This one quote leads me to believe that you are here just to fuck with people! |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:35pm ...and a whack whack here and a whack whack there...here a whack, there a whack... This Board is really confusing. So by saying that I tried something, means that I am supporting it and that I am unwilling to try anything else? I never said that I was into alternative medicine ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY. I would love to try anything that would work. Looking into O2 right now as it seems a good way to go. However, wouldn't O2 be considered alternative considering it is a naturally occuring element and doesn't fit the "drug" criteria? Red Bull would also be considered alternative and LOTS of people say that works. Oh wait...caffine would be considered a drug, wouldn't it? It is a key component in painkillers. Hmmm...guess you would have to define alternative medicine for me a little better before you slap that lable on me. BTW, the name Peacestock doesn't automatically make me some wild and crazy hippy who is weaving hemp backpacks for underprivilaged children in Uganda. It's just a name. ...But the funniest part of BlueMeanies post (to me, anyway) is that I worked in medicine for many years doing drug studies for pharmaceutical companies. I love you guys... :) You keep me real. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:40pm Nah, I recall it was you who misquoted me. Further bother due to your suspect credibility from Quote:
and purposely unanswered questions still hanging about CH (some for more than 24 hours now from the genuinely concerned, despite your consistent presence), has no interest from me. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by AussieBrian on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:23pm on 01/11/07 at 18:35:30, peacestock wrote:
A drug is defined as any product, natural or synthetic which, when introduced to the body, changes one or more of that body's functions. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:30pm Aussie, So, this means that many things that aren't considered a drug could be, like chocolate, eh? That could get very confusing if someone where to try and live "drug" free. Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:39pm Kevin, I am really sorry you misunderstood the OCD comment. This is obviously something that has really been bothering you since you are still mentioning it today and yesterday. My daughter recently came across a quote that said "I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it". I thought it was funny and used it to describe my OCD. Of course OCD, like all mental health issues, is not funny. However, I have used humour as a way of dealing with many of the obstacles I have faced and it has worked well for me. I also like to share humour with others, but, as you have stated, you do not find me funny. I am sorry if my humour offended you. I have tried my best to just let your dislike of me roll off my back, but I can't fight you and the beast at the same time. Thank you to all who have supported me and have sent me kind e-mails. I hope that I have not offended anyone as that was never my objective. I am sorry if you felt I was just here to fuck with people. I truly just wanted to meet others like me who also have CH and who just want to find some support. I didn't realize my trip to the cranio sacral lady was going to really piss people off or I never would have mentioned it and I never should have told you that I have OCD. Again I am sorry for so obviously pissing people off. Michelle |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by AussieBrian on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:42pm on 01/11/07 at 19:30:50, peacestock wrote:
That's right, and it proves the silliness of not considering all the information available so as to able to make an informed decision. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Redd715 on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:55pm I've been watching this thread since it started and at least I can say it's been an amusing journey. Peace hun, I can tell, even if veiled in sarcasm and humour (notice the spelling) you're getting a little hot under the collar. What I think may be the root of all the hostility is that when questioned about what meds you have taken, what you history with CH is, it seems to get swept under the rug for jab vs. jab banter. Oh and BTW Chocolate is known to have ensymes that work on the seratonin receptors (which manifest themselves as feelings of love and adoration) as well as caffine. Lucky for me I'm not a chochoholic, I'd be in love with everything...LMAO But seriously folks, Canada, just as the USA, has classes of drugs, some legal to consume (and/or posess) and some not. Lets not argue semantics here, but lets focus on what is and isn't viable treatment methods based on imperical data, then in suit, annecdotal data. I'm a "Buster" and after 22 years of the chronic hell, misdiagnosed for 19 of those years, I'm proud to say that www.clusterbusters.com has given me my life back. I don't consier myself "cured". I don't claim it will help everyone. Hell it took almost 2 years of very hard work and alot of set backs, to get where I am, but to this day I consider my CH "mannaged". I had my first 31 days without a full blown hit in 22 years. It ended there, but I'm hopeful this last dose has shaken things up even more. Episodics are much easier to treat with the CB method than Chronics. But I saw the difference and learned in time that I needed to find my own "rythym" to my care. No insurance, job on the line and 2 teenage kids to feed and keep a roof over their heads. I am still chronic in my definition, but I feel I have my condition "managed". Thats what it's about. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Jonny on Jan 11th, 2007, 9:00pm on 01/11/07 at 18:40:08, Kevin_M wrote:
BINGO!!!! |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by thebbz on Jan 11th, 2007, 10:34pm ;) All right I'll do it. I am putting 4 new magnets in my tin foil hat, stripping naked with peanut butter..chunky style, hopping on one foot turning slowly spanking my toad to piss him so I can lick him. Top it off with some good ole pepper spray and headon cocktail. That will straighten out the counter spinning demon vibes and I will get all better. jb In Canada I can just walk in and have this done no charge. Cool Edit: after that it's Ali and the hypothalmectomy... [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by broomhilda on Jan 11th, 2007, 10:47pm on 01/11/07 at 22:34:57, thebbz wrote:
Yup...see you at nine ;) ;;D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 12th, 2007, 3:43am Sorry folks and Peacestock if this post upsets anyone but: Peace stock- I think it is could be very dangerous for anyone to give, or you to take treatment advice on here as you say in other posts: You have significant one-sided paralysis symptoms with some of your headaches. Some of your headaches last all day and the shorter ones only 20 mins You say you can "ride them out" without any pain relief You have OCD You have ME You have kidney stones You have not mentioned anywhere that you have seen a neuro, or any kind of specialist despite having had headache conditions since you were 10. Your symptoms make the CH diagnosis look suspect and certainly your complicated health history suggests even a GP should hand you over to a specialist. I would say as strongly as I can: 1. Get yourself to a neuro who specialises in headaches 2. Until the hemiparesis is fully explained and the CH diagnosis confirmed- don't risk triptans or drugs which constrict your blood supply. There are a couple of migraine variants where paralysis is involved where these can kill. 3. Don't consider hallucinogens or opiates without fully discussing all options with your specialist/mental health care professional as these can also be dangerous with pre-existing mental health problems and several of the standard CH treatments are anti-manics or drugs which affect your brain chemistry and behaviour. Sorry to sound such an old woman, but I have to say it how I see it. Wendy Edited for spelling only |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by AussieBrian on Jan 12th, 2007, 4:53am Well spoken, Wendy, and a timely reminder that we are here only to offer suggestions and to help others as possibly we can. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by freddefeo on Jan 12th, 2007, 5:15am ;) i've done crainial sac- whatever last year and the dr today just gave me a new prescrip for another session. it does help. if anything just removing the tension caused by our episiodes can be a relief and anything with no meds is a good thing to me. the treatment is moving your scull plates and scalp around. it really helped last year. good luck |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 12th, 2007, 5:24am on 01/12/07 at 05:15:24, freddefeo wrote:
No Meds!!! :o :o :o You really do need to get some help here! Wendy |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 12th, 2007, 7:32am really trying to work with ya here peace but what you seem to continue to come up against is learning a bit of the unique etiquette of this board. 1.) there are people here that suffer horribly from CH and they use a variety of approaches to managing their affliction. 2.) while most of us hold opinions about the treatments we have tried or presently use, most of the time we try to reserve our opinions for those situations where we recognize a meaningful input into a conversation can take place. which means, "to each his own", until "he" asks for advice on what he might try instead. so, there are many of us who actually despise the price we pay to Glaxo Smith Kline for Imitrex but praise the day they invented it. there are those that hate that our doctors won't give us a prescription for o2 but can forgive and forget once we pull a clustermasx to our face for the first time and it works. There are many, that as a result of the legality of certain treatments discussed here, either as a result of their occupation or concern for the legal implications of getting caught, decline trying clusterbusters. It's a mixed bag. I love that there are more than a couple answers and praise whoever is working and trying to manage their CH. So, in a nutshell, oh hell, I don't know, there is no nutshell. just common sense. scott |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 12th, 2007, 7:47am Scott That is a kind post but frankly I think MB "etiquette" is the least of peacestocks' problems but one she will enjoy debating ::) ::) as it will fudge the essential issue (poking stick is twitching as I speak ;)) See above for what I think about that ::) ::) Really not trying to be mean but she, and you and others waste time, her health and bandwidth until she gets a sound diagnosis and treatment W the B |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by starlight on Jan 12th, 2007, 9:11am Read through this thread and thought it was interesting. I have no experience with cranio-sacral therapy. But I find that practicioner's statement that "cluster headache is caused by the energies in the 2 different sides of the brain to be rotating in different directions" very interesting. Because (and please noone jump on me with both feet), when cluster headache cycles first start, sometimes, I have felt a "shift"--very hard to describe, picture someone tilting an hour glass and sand shifting to one side. But even more interesting I think is that isn't that how a "clock" is oftentimes portrayed as going completely awry say in the movies (the metaphor here is the clock being the hypothalamus)--the gears will start spinning too quickly or in the wrong direction and the hands on the clock will also start spinning in different direction. I personally wouldn't discredit that statement about the 2 energies moving in different directions too quickly, because it is not like there are not energy flows within the body, and it is my opinion, with cluster headache that something is, in energy terms, going drastically wrong. And certainly, the energies moving in different directions is compatible with a defective hypothalamus. I just found that to be a very interesting statement by the cranio-sacral practitioner--something about it seems very true to me (intuitively) I guess. Star |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by starlight on Jan 12th, 2007, 9:23am And also, the energies of both sides of the brain moving in different directions explains, in some way, maybe, although I cringe at the idea, the regularity and frequency of cluster headache (the mutiple episodes for many per night/day) that the brain/body is maybe trying to "reset" the energies--get them moving in the same direction--maybe. That is the question I always ask myself, anyway, why do cluster headaches exist? Interesting discussion, and I will maybe go see a cranio-sacral person next time. Star |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:30am Unbelievable the verbal diarhhea that's gone on in this thread! ::) I've spoken with Michelle off the board and I can tell she's legit. I can't believe the pack mentality here and the picking apart of every single thing she's said, most times completely out of context and deliberately missing the points she was making. All because she mentioned that she had gone to a cranial sacral therapist. Again, I roll my eyes. Did she once say it helped her? No. She started this thread to mention what was said to her during the session - the bit about the energy or brain waves going different directions. I found that interesting and I'm sure she did too - THAT'S WHY SHE STARTED THIS THREAD. Not to profess a sudden cure - not at all - just an 'ah-HA' moment if nothing else. Michelle is not a troll. Michelle has a lot of other health issues going on. She's trying to introduce herself to us and, with that, comes a full description of what's going on in her life. Isn't that a normal way to introduce oneself? We have others here with other health issues - I'm betting not one amongst us DOESN'T. Sailpappy has Hep C. Elaine has battled cancer. BobP has some heart issues. Hub has ...well, he has issues. Jonny has sciatica. Den's a recovered alcoholic (not the only one either). Lots of folks have more than one type of headache. How do I know this? BECAUSE THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT IT HERE. Why is Michelle being singled out for talking about her OCD and kidney stones? Isn't it better that we DO know underlying health issues so that we can caution a newbie about possible med interactions? Michelle, I apologize for the treatment you've received here. I'm not 100% convinced yet that you do have cluster headaches, simply because of the duration of your attacks. It could be something called Chronic Paroxysmal Hemicrania. Or it could be cluster because you mention that your pupils are different from each other. Either way, that points me to stand with Wendy here and urge you to get in to see a neuro a.s.a.p. Don't let a GP prescribe cluster meds for you yet because they can be VERY dangerous for the other issues you have going on. Go through Emerg if you have to to get in quicker but please do escalate this. The "stroke-like" attacks that you're having really scare me - a big indicator that you wouldn't be a good candidate for the triptan cluster drugs (imitrex, zomig, etc.). The 20 minute attacks could mean that you will be responsive to indomethacin, but how will that affect your other stuff? I know you live in the NW and you're probably closer to the Lougheed but, go to the Foothills instead. The Headache Clinic is there on the 11th floor and if you go through Emerg there, chances are you'll get better care and maybe a quicker referral. Drs. Becker or Eloft, I believe, are quite often the on-call neuros in that Emerg. Better pack a lunch because you know what our wait times are but....it sure might be worth a shot. One last thing - Michelle, I admire your stamina in this thread and I, for one, appreciate how you've consistently tried to turn the attacks into humour here. Special thanks to Wendy for being on the ball and consistently trying to push in the right direction in this thread. To most of the rest of the participants here? [smiley=referee.gif] |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:36am on 01/12/07 at 10:30:12, Margi wrote:
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:38am on 01/12/07 at 10:30:12, Margi wrote:
come on Margi, peace seems to like the tussle. a legitimate tussler will stick around because of all the love around here. :-* p.s. and if you're going complain about "verbal diarhhea", following it up with something like 8 parpagraphs is the ultimate humourous follow-up... [smiley=laugh.gif] scott |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:44am on 01/12/07 at 10:38:36, seasonalboomer wrote:
oh you caught that did you? We Canadians are like that. ;) |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 12th, 2007, 11:06am on 01/12/07 at 10:30:12, Margi wrote:
on 01/10/07 at 13:57:11, peacestock wrote:
Ok. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Margi on Jan 12th, 2007, 11:13am THANK you, Kevin. :-* |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by msussman on Jan 12th, 2007, 2:10pm One of my friends graduated from chiropractic school and swore by cranio-sacral therapy. Upon his insistance, I tried it a few years back while in the middle of a 'sode. It really didn't do anything at all from what I could tell. The caveat here is that I'm a professional scientist, so I don't put much stock in alternative therapies...as they say, extraordinary claims require extraodinary proof. I'm skeptical of any therapy without considerable evidence in peer-reviewed journals - not that it necessarily doesn't work, but it's truth value is still indeterminate. That said, though, I did have one experience where acupuncture seemed to get me out of an episode. Just once, though - the next year it failed miserably. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by starlight on Jan 12th, 2007, 3:35pm I just found the theory to be interesting and was glad the person brought it up. Made me think. Not for or against anyone or anything. It's an interesting theory. Cluster headaches are notoriously resistant to many of the different types of alternative and other not so alternative treatments so just mainly was interested in the theory. Star |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by JeffB on Jan 12th, 2007, 5:38pm Man that was good. I need a cigarette now. Right after I get done alphabetizing the papers in my trash can. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 12th, 2007, 5:47pm on 01/11/07 at 18:35:30, peacestock wrote:
Hope you do get the 02. It is a proven (through experienced peeps here on the board) med that just may possibly work for your CH's. Wasn't trying to give you a hard time, just wanting you to find something that may WORK for you. Peace Peacestock |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 12th, 2007, 10:05pm Busy day today. Shitty day yesterday. I have a lot to say but will keep it short (difficult for a Canadian, TRUST me). Wendy - thank you SO much for alerting me to something I had forgotten - just because a doctor says it's something, doesn't mean it's true. Looking over the pieces of the puzzle you had put together for me, there is something going on more than just headaches. I know my fans will jump all over that. I am not suggesting that headaches are NOT a big deal, but just that I have more going on than just that. Thank you to everyone brave enough to try something strange and being willing to admit it! Yes, I do think the hemisphere thing is interesting. There just maybe something to it...or you can try the tinfoil hat and peanut butter thing...your choice. To Margi - you are my new best friend (hugs). Thank you so much for your kindness. You are a true hero of mine. And your *Alan Alda moment was WAY cooler than mine. To Kevin - I didn't want to draw attention to this, but a couple of times you actually quoted yourself by mistake and you looked pretty stupid. And stop flirting with me in private. I am STILL not interested. To everyone else - I am SO glad we had this conversation. It has been eye opening. To Seasonalbloomer - (smoooch!) I love the dance. The headaches I get are sooooo painful. It's not that I don't want to take something for them. Hell, I sit there crying, begging for something, but with my bad kidneys, I can't take many things. Due to the stones, topamax is out. O2 sounds like a good way to go. Caffine is not good as I have extra-beats and bad nerves due to the ME. I don't want to minimize the pain just by saying "I just wait them out". They hurt worse than kidney stones, and you can quote me! They hurt worse than childbirth! They suck! ...that being said, I will go to a neurologist and find out what it going on. Can I hang out here with you guys while I wait for a diagnosis? Michelle (Margi used my real name! ARG!) :) *Remember during M*A*S*H, at the end of every episode, Alan Alda would get all serious and give one of his "war is hell" speaches? That is an Alan Alda moment. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by froggy on Jan 13th, 2007, 3:19am You go girl! A Neurologist is definitely a great place to start. michelle paul |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by froggy on Jan 13th, 2007, 3:22am oops, guess the secrets out, dam! |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 13th, 2007, 6:56am on 01/12/07 at 22:05:54, peacestock wrote:
I know exactly what I did when I did it, and for what purpose, I quoted myself because you seemed to misinterpret and misquote at your whim, I had to quote myself for you to read a simple sentence over again. Your second sentence is once again, right in character, contradictory of interest. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 13th, 2007, 7:14am Kev and peacestock/Michelle Couldn't you two just agree that you can't agree, can't stand each other and never want to "speak" to each other again? You are doing EVERYONE'S heads in ;;D Also Michelle Until you have a CH diagnosis, could you refrain from discussing treatments that might or might not work for you as they may not be at all relevant if you don't have CH? It will piss people off even more if you don't. Could I respectfully (and kindly I hope?) suggest that if you don't want to continue to appear to be a troll, you just support and read and learn until you know what is going on after you have seen a neuro? Wendy |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by E-Double on Jan 13th, 2007, 8:28am on 01/13/07 at 07:14:47, pubgirl wrote:
[smiley=thumb.gif] Be safe, humble and feel good |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 13th, 2007, 8:44am on 01/13/07 at 07:14:47, pubgirl wrote:
Thank you Wendy. I had come to an understanding of difficulty a long time ago and have been trying to be silent here after offering thoughts to her on this thread for getting help for any afflictions. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 13th, 2007, 9:24am on 01/13/07 at 08:44:04, Kevin_M wrote:
Sorry Kevin I don't understand what you are saying W |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Kevin_M on Jan 13th, 2007, 10:04am on 01/13/07 at 07:14:47, pubgirl wrote:
I already have. :) and her pming comment is simply more bs. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by georgej on Jan 13th, 2007, 11:29am on 01/13/07 at 07:14:47, pubgirl wrote:
Out of respect to Margi, I've tried to stay out of this nonsense. However.....This posted by Peacestock last night in "Funnies and Jokes": on 01/13/07 at 00:01:44, peacestock wrote:
This was posted in response to no remark of any kind. It seems overtly trollish to me. Since Peacestock has been, by her own admission, on many support boards since the old Usenet days, I must assume that she knows what sort of behavior will cause controversy. May I respectfully suggest to the other members here that it isn't the alleged "bullies" who are stirring the pot? Care to explain? You are blocked from my PM's, Peacestock, so don't try to play that hand--as you apparently are willing to do. I will send no PM's to you. All in public. Guess I'm a "bully" now. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by pubgirl on Jan 13th, 2007, 11:42am Michelle I think george proves my point with his post above. There are very good reasons why those "sponsors" are there which you would know if you read a while rather than shooting your mouth off. If you want to pay for this site to run, then I am sure DJ wouldn't need them. I've been kind, but I feel less kind now. My suggestion that you read and learn and support is now a bit stronger: "Please shut up until you know a bit more what you are talking about" W |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by peacestock on Jan 13th, 2007, 1:12pm Not sure if you are a bully? Ask yourself this simple question: Was I offended by Peacestock's bully comment? If you answered "yes", then you are probably a bully. If you don't think I have CH, then stop reading and responding to my posts. I won't be offended, I promise. Don't like what I have to say, here's the great part, just don't read it. It's so easy. The bullies on here are just sore because I am not going to just lay down and beg for mercy when they bash me, I just bash right back. Ya'll just think I am a troll because I don't react like all the other newbies you have come across. So what if I am a troll? I am a troll with CH, that's what. This is the best support group ever! I feel so much love. Mmmmmm..... |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by georgej on Jan 13th, 2007, 1:33pm on 01/13/07 at 11:29:21, georgej wrote:
Didn't think so. I'll leave it to others to decide what they think. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by Jonny on Jan 13th, 2007, 1:39pm on 01/13/07 at 13:12:51, peacestock wrote:
Um, no......it works like this, when I have had enough of your shit.....I simply pick up the phone and call DJ (hes the webmaster) ....and POOF!, your profile is deleted ;;D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by UN solved on Jan 13th, 2007, 1:52pm on 01/13/07 at 13:39:29, Jonny wrote:
LMAO !! I LOVE IT !! [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by BB on Jan 13th, 2007, 7:15pm This reminded me of the first informal lesson, yet most valuable, from the Head of the Psych Department at Med School : "Never argue with someone who has a mental health disorder" Annette |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by JeffB on Jan 15th, 2007, 11:26am Here's a place for peacecock. www.imanidiot.com ;;D |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by karma on Jan 15th, 2007, 11:48am Hey Jeff, I'm not picking on you alone, you just happen to be the last one to have added nothing to this. This is the meds. treatments and therapy board. Its where people come to discuss CH. The general board is for all the other stuff. It would be a real shame if this section turned into something other than what it is meant to be. |
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Title: Re: Something I have tried... Post by JeffB on Jan 15th, 2007, 12:05pm Then you haven't read too much of this. Nothing has been added other than a bitchy woman who likes to start shit. And I have not forgotten your personal feelings towards me so I know where your post was coming from, honey! Take care sweetums. ;;D |
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