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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> RC seed experience length? - updated
        
(Message started by: heprat on Dec 29^th, 2006, 2:07pm)

Title: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Dec 29^th, 2006, 2:07pm

hello
I started my cycle again on Tuesday after a 2 year reprieve. I am attempting to procure some RC seeds. I've read the clusterbuster FAQ and have been searching this site but have come up empty.

Specifically...if a person were to take the recommended dose...How long may the effects last?
I know at that level there shouldn't be much of an effect...but just in case. I'm trying to decide if this is something I can do after work? or should I plan a whole day around it.

Wish me luck finding the seeds. The first place Iamshaman was backordered for 2 weeks. After doing my searches, I discovered this might not have been the best place anyway.

My O2 got here last night...and I already had a clustermasx...so I'm just holding on and hoping for the best. thanks all

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by karma on Dec 29^th, 2006, 2:39pm

I had great luck with Iamshaman. The seeds were fresh and they were sent out right away.

I found my ideal dose to be 26 for how I was using them but started with 10 at first to guage the affects.
I had little to no psyicodelic affects at any time. The mellow feeling peekd after about a 1/2 hour and lasted for about three hours. Once I knew what to expect I had no problems dosing at any time during the day but mostly dosed at night.
Remember to not eat at LEAST two hours before and after for the seeds to be the most affective. There may be post dose hits the next day that can be disruptive. That may be the one thing that could dictate when you dose.
I do believe that like all medications body weight , condition and overall health have allot to do with how the seeds will affect you.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by heprat on Dec 29^th, 2006, 3:07pm

karma...thanks...that is exactly what I was looking for.
I read the FAQs and a lot of threads and read about the post dose hits but it never registered. thanks for the reminder. I'll factor that in.

I read through a lot of post and a couple stuck in my mind where someone had bad/stale?? seeds from Iamshaman...and I read them after I ordered so it stuck even more. Could very well be isolated.

I discovered the bouncingbearbotanicals place is only about 45 miles from my house. I'm hoping they'll help me out and let me pick them up as opposed to having them shipped.
thanks again

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by Ob1kanobee on Dec 29^th, 2006, 3:40pm

Keep us posted on how this works out for you. I am curious about the side effects (mainly the trip). When I was in my late teens, I dropped (took) acid (blotter paper) about 10 times. Every time was pretty intense and a few were not very pleasant experiences.

If I ever resort to try this, I would like to know how one feels. Supposedly, it has mild to no psychodelic effects. However, I don't see how it would have any positive results without having at least some minute psychodelic effects.

For instance. When you take meds, you alsmost always have some side effects. Dry mouth, shakiness, blurred vision, ect. It is when the side effects cause excessive shakiness, vision that is so blurred you have a hard time seeing, ect. that I think your dose is too high, unless you are using the smallest dose recomended. Then you most likely have an intollerable medication.

Medication is somewhat different though and hard to make a general comparrison like that though. Usually one has to take medication for a certain length of time for these side effects to level, the body has to get used to it.

As with everything else, there are just so many variables to consider, trying to find out what works and what doesn't and why not (is it user error as in the case of o2 therapy not doing it properly). It is as though we are always trying to hit a moving target.

Anyway, best of luck and keep us posted.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by heprat on Dec 30^th, 2006, 2:33pm

OB1....I had similar previous experiences (both blotter and shrooms - man it has been years) so hopefully I can relate to you some "relative" information. Will definately keep everyone (including Harvard) informed.

BTW - Clustermasx rules!

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by MJ on Dec 31^st, 2006, 1:28am

Hi Hep

Understand the effects may be different for you than any other so tread wisely.

I found the effects of RC seeds to last about 6 hours.

At the lower doses I feel hardly nothing at all and what I feel is a very slight sedated effect around 15 to 20 or so seeds. I have reccomended that the seeds be taken shortly before sleep as you will then notice nothing at all cause you will sleep like a baby.

It is something you could do in the evening but in the morning a low hangover effect may occurr. Not good for quality work conditions. Neither are clusters though.

At the doses we use the the phsycedelic analogy is not usefull, ie; LSD, vs the RCseeds (LSA) in my opinion.
In fact I believe the DEA classifies LSA as a sedative not a phsychedelic. Dont quote me on that though without checking.
Though it is probably different with HBWR seeds.

That is what causes a lot of anxiety and far out expectations. We all need to rethink a little the idea of tripping which generally doesnt happen with the RC seeds untill you take an exhorbitant amount of seeds. Even then it is different. Not that I would know.

It is important to test the waters with a lower dose as what pinkfloyd once said it has nothing to do with your physical size, its the size of your mind that matters.

The closed door effect is there as well so its useless to try to add to a dose for a while 6-12 hrs as it would be a waste of good medicine. Most claim 5 days.

Anyone else read clusterbusters LSA faq first as these are just my opinions and personal observations.

Let us know how it goes.

PS: I had excellent quality and service from Iamshaman.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by Ob1kanobee on Dec 31^st, 2006, 7:54am

MJ,

Did you have any success with the seeds?

Also, are you chronic or do you go through epeisodes?

If you have the link to the FAQ regarding what you said in your previous post, would you mind posting it?

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by Ob1kanobee on Dec 31^st, 2006, 7:56am

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by Chillrmn1 on Dec 31^st, 2006, 10:27am

on 12/31/06 at 07:56:53, Ob1kanobee wrote:

If you have the link to the FAQ regarding what you said in your previous post, would you mind posting it?

Ob1 - Here's the link for LSA FAQs if that's what you were asking: http://clusterbusters.com/faqlsa.htm

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by thebbz on Dec 31^st, 2006, 8:31pm

ethnogardenbotanicals
good luck
jb

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by heprat on Jan 1^st, 2007, 5:23pm

on 12/31/06 at 01:28:14, MJ wrote:

PS: I had excellent quality and service from Iamshaman.

I agree. As I had found a local source willing to let me pick them up I cancelled my order. Iamshaman was very nice about working with me.

I had read the FAQ and assumed affects may vary. Just curious as to what to look forward to. Sounds like 3-6 hours. Hadn't thought about taking them before bed. I plan to start with 15...then play it by ear. Looks like this coming Saturday for me.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length?
Post by heprat on Jan 8^th, 2007, 10:52am

I can now provide my own experience. My wife got home with the seeds on Saturday. We immeadiately ground 15 and put them in a 1 oz glass of water. I let it sit for 2 hours. I was so excited I forgot to eat a light lunch so my belly was empty.

At 2:30 I slammed it all down. Not what I was expecting. Not much flavor at all. A little like dirt but not bad. By 3:15 I was feeling "sedated". I needed a nap and got about 45 minutes sleep before getting woke up. I could have slept a lot longer.

Once up I was in a very good mood. Nothing wierd. Clear head. I definately knew I had been "altered" but it was pleasant. The only remotely "phsyidellic" things I noticed were the lights seemed much "whiter". Also, I wondered outside at one point and was looking up at the barren trees...I could focus on the details as it all seemed clear.

Somewhere between 5:30 and 6:30 it pretty much all wore off. I felt pretty good. My wife commented on how amourous I was :-) I think I was just excited at the prospect of getting rid of the beast.

All in all it was a very pleasant experience. Well until that night anyway. My last 36 hours have been pure hell. I had 8 attacks on Saturday night. A couple more on Sunday during the day and then 6 more last night including a K10.

I've not had any meds or used trex at all during this cycle that began on 12/26. I have not used melatonin for the last 10 days. I've taken magnesium and b-2. and lots and lots and lots of O2. The O2 has helped on all but the K10 hit. Nothing was stopping that bad boy. I keep telling myself that it is the beast just thrashing around having been delt a deadly blow. Maybe I just pissed him off with a glancing blow and he is showing me who is boss. I've not lost faith yet and plan to take another shot at him this coming weekend.

Wish me luck. In a couple of weeks once I better know the outcome of this I will post an update in a separate thread.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by Ob1kanobee on Jan 8^th, 2007, 11:17am

Sorry to hear your first time didn't get the outcome you were looking for. From what I understand, you will try again, I hope next time you get some results.

That sucks you keep getting hit like that, all you can do is keep the faith I guess and hang in there. Like I tell myself, this cycle will end sometime right?

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by Sandy_C on Jan 8^th, 2007, 11:55am

My apologies for finding this thread a little bit late.

I'm episodic, with typical cycles lasting anywhere from 8 to 12 weeks, and then lovely 18 - 24 month remissions. After the end of my last cycle (July 05), I decided to look into the rc seeds. I began taking a "maintenance dose" of 11 seeds once a month while out of cycle, in hopes of completely warding off the next cycle. About three months ago (not certain, will have to check my logs), started getting shadowing and occasional low level hits. Upped the seed dosage to 20, which completely knocked everything back to 100% PF. Stayed with 20 seeds monthly (got up to 40 days between doses).

Now, as of New Year's Eve (oh well - no party), my cycle has officially started for real. Dosed with 30 seeds, still got some pretty intense (one about K7) hits about every OTHER evening , but were easily aborted with oxygen. So far, no nighttime hits. Dosed again last night, with 30 seeds. Got hit with a K5, aborted with O2.

I am on day 9 of a cycle. On a typical cycle, by this time I would be hit every evening between 8:00 and 10:00, with middle Kip range, some K8's. Also could expect heavy shadows and low level hits around 2:00 in the afternoon, and maybe one night time hit. This is not happening this cycle - so far.

I'm like Karma. I take the seeds in the evening, about two hours after dinner, and just sit back and relax. I usually will fall asleep in the recliner or the couch while watching TV. I sleep like a baby. Only once have I ever woken up the next morning with a "hangover", and coffee seemed to put that away pretty quickly. I've never experienced what you might call a "trip". Just a feeling of relaxation, peace, and sleepiness.

I'll also keep you posted on how this cycle goes, in comparison to a typical cycle. Oh, and BTW, my only weapons for this cycle will be the seeds, O2, Red Bull, ice packs, ice water, and Melatonin if I start getting hits at night.

I get mine from Iamshaman, and have not been disappointed.

Sandy

Sandy

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by MJ on Jan 8^th, 2007, 12:44pm

Heprat

Sounds like your getting hit pretty hard postdose. Harder than some.

I would say dose again tonight if your still getting hit. I dont see any point in waiting.

You did indeed give the beast ample warning, now kick his ass. If things dont clear up by the end of the the day my suggestion is to do as follows.

Sounds like 15 seeds works for you and there is probably no reason to increase the dosage. You just need to hit him more often. Maybe every evening with 10-15 seeds and just 3-5 seeds in the morning for a couple days untill hes definately on the run. It shouldnt hurt to experiment once you know when the dose wears off for sure.

When you feel like your making headway reduce your intake to a minimal dose 3-5 seeds. This should only take a few days. 2-3 days at most.
At no point would I reccomend continuing this for more than a week as I dont know that anyone has done this for more than 10 days and most likely the seeds will become innefective at a point. (10 days was me and I had tremendous results).

Contrary to other medications I found it preferable to decrease the dosage when using this method rather than increase.

In my opinion its a chemical balancing act with the seeds and once balanced a maintenance dose every now and again should be all thats needed.

You can also use a smaller dose around 4 seeds to knock out individual hits when a lrger dose wears off.

Thats what worked for me after a lot of experimenting with the seeds to get it right.... we are all different in our methods and one must keep a close eye on how they feel.

Alternately like many others you can wait out the 5 days in pain if you prefer then hit it again.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 8^th, 2007, 1:53pm

thanks for the thoughts

MJ - I had planned to wait to the upcoming weekend to dose again primarily because of the closed door effect. Can I assume if I dose again tonight...and I "feel" it...that the "door wasn't closed"? I have to work and travel this week so I'm not sure about further doses....but after last night I am willing to try just about anything. A full nights sleep sure would be nice...oh and a bit of beast ass kickin would be nice as well.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by MJ on Jan 8^th, 2007, 2:24pm

on 01/08/07 at 13:53:49, heprat wrote:

thanks for the thoughts

Can I assume if I dose again tonight...and I "feel" it...that the "door wasn't closed"?

The "door" "was" closed and may be open again.

Yes if you dose tonight and feel it then the closed door effect is now open.
This seems to vary with some people but with me I found I could redose after just 6-8 hours when I was being hit often,any less and no value was found with the RC seeds.

Remember this that if you do dose again and follow the beforementioned method you are attempting to maintain the closed door or continually reshutting the door which also closes the door to CH.

In my opinion.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 8^th, 2007, 2:32pm

thanks MJ I'll give it another go tonight and report back.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by karma on Jan 8^th, 2007, 9:23pm

Heprat,
I was dosing about every two days or so for about two weeks, usually in the early evening. I was using them more as an abotive and would have several doses ready and in the fridge or freezer. If the redbull wasn't going to do it, a dose would kill a hit in 5-10 minutes.
Lots of redbull + 3-4000 mg. taurine and the seeds did it for me. After dosing a couple of times I realized that if I didn't dwell on the fact that I had dosed I would feel little to no affects.
Don't be afraid to experiment a bit. I did and found a system that seemed to work for me.
Good luck.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 9^th, 2007, 9:03am

I dosed again last night about 8PM. Another 15 seeds. This time I felt little to no effect. I got hit with a K3 about 10:30 that was quickly and easily aborted with O2. I fell asleep and actually got 4 continous hours of sleep until I was awoken by my normal night time visitor......but this time it was my 3 year old daughter. I was very excited. I did get two more hits over night but they were both in the K4/5 range and both quickly aborted with O2. So far no shadows or ice picks this AM.

As I felt no effect from last nights dose I will probably just monitor my progress until this weekend and dose again on Saturday.

Karma - could you please give a bit more detail on how you freeze the doses? Are you soaking the crushed seeds in water for the two hours then freezing them...maybe in a ice tray? Do you then thaw it out before dosing? or do you suck on the ice? Are you using full strenght doses? I was thinking about infusing in vodka (as opposed to wine as suggested)...the vodka wouldn't freeze and could be consumed quickly when needed for an abortive. I know alchohol can be a trigger so maybe not the best choice.

Thanks again to everyone for their comments. It is conforting.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by karma on Jan 9^th, 2007, 9:36am

Heprat,
From the time I received them I would have a dose, well crushed, and soaking in water at room temperature for up to twelve hours in a small glass (like a shot glass but wider) ready and waiting.
If I didn't use the dose I would pop it in the fridge until later if needed. If it didn't get used right away it went into the freezer and another dose was prepared.
I only used a couple ounces of water so if I needed to thaw it quickly a little tap water on top got it drinkable in a coule of minutes. (don't use the microwave, I found out the hardway it can explode and send your relief all over the inside) [smiley=laugh.gif]
I was dosing at 26 seeds regularly. I probably could have cut that down but after finding a number that worked well I didn't want to mess with it.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by Sandy_C on Jan 12^th, 2007, 11:05am

Hi, Hep! You haven't posted back to this thread since the 9th, so I'm curious as to how you are doing on the seeds.

I don't want to hijack your thread, but since my post here on the 8th, I thought I would bring you up to date on what's happening here.

As I said on the 8th post, my cycle began the evening of New Year's Eve 12/31. Dosed with 30 seeds, hit with K7, aborted with 02. From my log:

1/3 - evening hit K5, aborted with 02
1/5 - evening hit K3, aborted with 02
1/7 - dosed again with 30 seeds, evening hit K3 - aborted
with 02
1/9 - evening shadows, ice water and ice pack

Absolutely nothing, no hits, no shadows since.

From everything that I learned from Clusterbusters, and from Bob (PinkFloyd), we should wait at least 5 days between doses. It sometimes takes that long for the affect from the seeds to kick in and really start working.

I am now a testimonial that this schedule does work. In a normal cycle by now, I would be in absolute misery with one to two evening hits, an afternoon hit, and sometimes a nighttime hit. Using these seeds - life is very good.

Sandy

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by Ob1kanobee on Jan 12^th, 2007, 1:38pm

Sandy-C

Are you saying that you are done dosing every 5 days now, unless you get another hit or shadows?

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 13^th, 2007, 10:13am

Sandy-C thanks for the update. It is so good to hear it is helping you. It gives me some hope. As you know, I dosed last Saturday and had a horrible time afterwards. I dosed again on Monday night and got no effect. I have been hit every night since then with 6-8 hourly hits throughout the night. Not so good for sleeping. Days haven't been all that bad. Usually 1-2 easily aborted with red bull. It has now been 5 days since my last dose and I plan to take more tonight. Wish me luck.

The O2 has been helping. Apria brought me a M tank yesterday. I was burning through the E tanks so quick and having to replace a tank while getting hit was not fun.

I'll post again after the next dose. I took 15 seeds the last two times. I'm thinking maybe a little more won't hurt.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 14^th, 2007, 10:52am

dosed with 20 rc seeds last night. very mellow experience. only had 2 K5 hits over night and a K7 this morning. Somewhat an improvement over the previous nights ....hoping for more of an improvement though. We'll see how the next couple of days go.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by Sandy_C on Jan 15^th, 2007, 1:09pm

on 01/12/07 at 13:38:37, Ob1kanobee wrote:

Sandy-C

Are you saying that you are done dosing every 5 days now, unless you get another hit or shadows?

Sorry, all. I was out of town over the weekend.

No, Obee, I am still dosing every 5 to 7 days - like clockwork. I dosed again with 30 seeds on Friday 12th even though I had not had a hit or anything stronger than one mild shadow (ice water & ice pack kicked it), since my last dose on the 7th.

Saturday, drove four hours to my daughter's house, spent a wonderful weekend with her visiting bridal expo, florists, photogs, and caterers (she's getting married in Sept), with absolutely no pain, no shadows. Drove back home last night, tired as hell, about 9:00 pm, some got some shadows that needed a little 02 to abort - 5 minutes later, back to PF.

I will dose again this weekend, pain or no pain. I am IN cycle - no doubt, so dosing regularly is a must, at least for me. Out of cycle, I stretch the doses out to monthly, or longer (40 days has been my longest spread). I began the monthly regimine a few months ago, because I knew I was due to start a cycle around December/January, and hoped to ward the cycle off completely. That did not work completely, BUT, this cycle has been a breeze
so far in comparison to a "normal" cycle for me.

That reminds me, gotta go hit up Iamshaman for new shipment.

Sandy

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by cmoore on Jan 16^th, 2007, 3:58pm

I am also currently in cycle and have been using RC Seeds. I have all of my data compiled and will be able to post all of it soon if anyone wants to read about my experience.

I feel that I learn somethine about treating my CH and understanding my CH every cycle. This cycle has tought me that following the guidelines on clusterbusters is an absolute must. Most importantly for me is to WAIT the 5 days before treating. In the past I would not wait the full 5 days and I think that that actually hurt me. I have been pretty much pain free for 2 days now and am really happy about that. I am planning on dosing again tonight.

Also - thank god for ginger, magnesium, and energy drinks :)

Good Luck Heprat. Glad to see things are going well for you Nancy.

-Chris

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by heprat on Jan 16^th, 2007, 4:45pm

Chris - please post your experience. My experience has not been all that great yet...so I'm looking for any clues that might help me out. Please be as specific as you can.

To some of the buster veterans of this board....is there a better repository for these types of post? possible to do a "sticky" somewhere. I know the best repository will be with the Sewell et al doing the Harvard study...but I'm thinking somewhere on this board where people can just post their experiences.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by karma on Jan 17^th, 2007, 6:21am

Heprat,
Based on my experience this is what I would do if I was you. (Remember I was dosing regularly more as an abortive.)
Up the dose to between 25 - 30 crush and soak for at least 4 hours, more may be better. My concoction was almost a dark brown many times. Dose as required when a hit is incoming even at night or early morning if you get woken up but try and keep a couple of days inbetween. The period between severe hits should stretch out as you go along.
I was drinking one or two Redbull regularly prior to the times when I was expecting a hit. There were days when I drank as many as seven or eight.
My work requires that I be mentally sharp and physically capable and I had no problems because I was dosing regularly.
Accept for Taurine suppliments I was taking nothing else, no tylenol, no Advil no decongestants, no o2 and I stopped with the melatonin after about a week.
I know this goes against conventional wisdom but it worked for me.
Good Luck.

Title: Re: RC seed experience length? - updated
Post by karma on Jan 21^st, 2007, 4:39pm

Heprat,
whats up?