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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> using mushrooms
        
(Message started by: sevim on Dec 19^th, 2006, 5:10am)

Title: using mushrooms
Post by sevim on Dec 19^th, 2006, 5:10am

hi we have grove mushrooms and my husband was able to taking them he is chronic and he had too much hope but unfortunetly first day it worked little bit but second day once the pain start i made him tea but it didnt worked the pain increased soo much that he couldnt dealed he was using oxygen as well but it didnt stop he end up taking Zomig it was really bad the next day he was having presure all day now he is soo depresed is this normal or it means that mushrooms not gone work for him

thanks sevim

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by Barron on Dec 19^th, 2006, 5:40am

Hello Sevim, increase in CH activity after starting on the Psilocybin treatment is quite common. However one should only be dosing every 5 to 7 days though, & not every other day as your post suggests. If you have dosed, then It must be another 5 days, at least, before one should dose again

The Buster treatment is not a magic cure, It can be quite a long hard road to go down, but if all advice, & guidelines are followed, then as with myself, & many other, it can prove to be the most effective treatment against this horrid condition we share. IMHO.

I'm sure many others will be along shortly sevim to offer help, & advice.
I wish you a very merry Christmas, & a PF future Sevim, in the meantime, have a good read round the CB site.

www.clusterbusters.com

PFDAN...
CArl... 8)

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by UN solved on Dec 19^th, 2006, 9:52am

We need a true expert here ... but I would think that using mushrooms & Zomig (or any other Triptan drug) together is a 'no-no".

UNsolved

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by Sandy_C on Dec 19^th, 2006, 1:09pm

From what I've learned, you need to be completely detoxed from any and all drugs, prescription, or over the counter before you dose the first time. I use rc seeds, but the rule was true for mushrooms as well.

Once on the treatment, you take no other drugs, and you space your doses out with a minimum of 5 days between doses. It can take that long for the treatment to begin working in your system. Yes, those 5 days are not at all fun, but I will attest that as far as the rc seeds are concerned, the plan is working extremely well. Don't know about the mushrooms.

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by tommyD on Dec 19^th, 2006, 4:41pm

As the others said, most folks need to wait five days between doses for the mushrooms to be effective. And there are medications that will interfere with the mushrooms: triptans, prednisone, egotamines and others. Triptans like zomig seem to interfere when taken either before or after the mushrooms treatment.

And it is very common for a mushroom dose to be followed by a hit...don’t panic, things may calm down. It can seem at first the beast is back to its usual ways, but see if things don’t get easier. Keep trying the oxygen, shrooms seem to help it work better.

Another possibilty is the SPUT to stop the hits. At the first sign of a hit, some folks will put a Small Piece of mushroom Under the Tongue. Just a small piece, about the size of a pencil erasure will do. They hold it there and suck like crazy for as long as possible. The dose is small enough, there’s no need to wait five days after.

More about detoxing from other meds:
As a rule of thumb, it’s best to say one should detox from all medications before using the tryptamine treatments (shrooms, LSA seeds, LSD, etc.). But some folks have used verapmil along with tryptamines successfully. Most other meds used for cluster seem to interfere with tryptamine treatment: prednisone for sure and usually triptans, opioids and ergotamines. Lithium and SSRIs can be problematic in other ways, if I remember rightly.

I suspect that simply detoxing from the usual medications gets rid of all the rebound effects and makes it easier for the tryptamine to break a cycle.

-tommyD

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by UN solved on Dec 19^th, 2006, 8:33pm

Still nobody has said it ...

Shrooms, LSD, or LSA + Triptans or Ergotomines = 'double dipping'

Is this not correct ?

Where are the 'experts' ??

UNsolved

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by BikerBob on Dec 19^th, 2006, 9:38pm

See Section 4 on http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html

BB

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by nani on Dec 19^th, 2006, 10:28pm

on 12/19/06 at 20:33:47, UN solved wrote:

Still nobody has said it ...

Shrooms, LSD, or LSA + Triptans or Ergotomines = 'double dipping'

Actually, they all said it.
You can use triptans after dosing, but that will require a full 5 day detox before you can dose again. That can result in painful delays in follow up doses.
Post dose hits are quite common, sevim, and very often things settle down after a day or two. It would be best for you both to read the FAQ link that Biker Bob posted. Information is our best weapon.
pain free wishes to your hubby, nani

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by BikerBob on Dec 20^th, 2006, 12:42am

on 12/19/06 at 22:28:37, nani wrote:

You can use triptans after dosing, but that will require a full 5 day detox before you can dose again. That can result in painful delays in follow up doses.

Nani, I disagree. I think it's most likely that triptans will interfere with the therapeutic effects of psilocybin/LSD/LSA if used within 5 days before and after the use of psychedelics. Although post-dose hits are common a day or 2 after dosing (shake-up period), they're uncommon 3-4 days after dosing. This is related to the "shutting the doors" analogy described on CB.com. Triptans can "reopen the doors" and shut them in a different way before the full therapeutic effects of psilocybin are realized.

BB

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 20^th, 2006, 1:00am

Ok....this'll be interesting but I think I can it. I'm going to try to agree with two people that are disagreeing on something. ;-)

I agree with Nani, that you CAN use a triptan after psilocybin (I wouldn't do it for 24 hours but) and I think she was trying to answer UNsolved's question about "double-dipping." I wouldn't consider this much different than taking to shots of imitrex back to back.

I agree with Biker in that yes, I too belive that taking a triptan or ergot after the psilocybin dose, WILL greatly effect the outcome of the psilocybin dose, in a negative way.

So, YES you can, but it defeats the purpose in many cases., so NO you shouldn't, if you want it to work.

Whatever the case, I don't believe it is a good idea at all to mix any of these within a 24 hour period.

This is a very complicated deal. Thats why people were posting links to the reading material on the site. There is a lot there to digest. It's not just how the major players (psilocybin/imitrex/LSA/ergots) react but it includes things like ginger, and melatonin and many other things.

Sorry to hear of the trouble Sevim. I hope there is some progress made from that first/2nd dose.
The 2nd dose of tea before the zomig probably blocked alot of the zomig's actions. Thats why the zomig didn't prove to be very helpful it seems. The zomig probably set back the psilocybin dose(s) also. None of them play well together. They won't share .....receptors.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Bobw

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by UN solved on Dec 22^nd, 2006, 9:46am

Thanks Bob ! I knew you'd show up ;;D

Dr. Rozen (from MHNI) said that the chemical structures of Mushrooms and DHE were very much alike. He described the two substances as being 'the same' ... (even though we know they're not). His statements are what lead me to believe that you are not supposed to mix mushrooms with DHE or Triptans.

Thanks again

UNsolved

Title: Re: using mushrooms
Post by sevim on Dec 24^th, 2006, 6:13am

Just wondering if any of you have search on following artical. Read this post from shinydellgirl
New Board Newbie about Cervical Spondylosis and did google search any idea or another false hope

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1526-4610.1991.hed3104210.x
Chronic Cluster Headache Associated With a Vertebral Artery Aneurysm
Dr. Paul West , Dr. Don Todman
SYNOPSIS
This is a report of a patient with chronic cluster headache-like pain of 12 years duration. Investigation revealed an aneurysm at the junction of the vertebral and posterior inferior cerebellar arteries and after removal the patient experienced resolution of his cluster headache. The headache and aneurysm were both right sided suggesting a possible relationship.